3 phase bandsaw. Single phase garage. Best solution?

[HoosierBuddy]

Hey guys,

I managed to find and purchase a vintage Powermatic 143 band saw from a surplus auction. I plan to get it picked up (1 state away) tomorrow.

The saw is in unknown condition other than the pictures of it on the listing. The one thing I know that will have to be dealt with for sure is the 3 phase motor, as my garage only has single phase power. The manual I found online says the Powermatic 143 wood/metal 14-inch saw was equipped with either a 1/2 hp or optional 3/4 hp motor. The saw does both wood and metal by having a low/high transmission and then 4 pulleys after that.

When faced with the same issue on my metal lathe I got a vfd, but I’m wondering if a new 3/4 hp single phase motor would be a better solution.

The vfd gives me speed control, jog, and reverse on my lathe….but that seems pointless on a saw?

What would you recommend?

 

[slowtwitch73]

New motor, or RPC.

 

[no704]

Speed control on a band saw is nice. I’d do the VFD

 

[speed bump]

I've got a Do all 1612 and the VFD is really nice, the gearbox is cranked up and I can control the speed easily without climbing into the cabinet.

 

[alfadan]

Kind of a toss up with a half horse motor, cost wise anyway I'd think. Probably stick with the usa 3 phase motor and a 1 hp vfd.
Those motor bearings are probably shielded and full of sawdust!

 

[Walkers]

New motor. Easy to do, cheap, effective.

 

[ez-duzit]

A VFD is pretty cheap for that small motor. But I'd probably just replace the motor.

 

[isb cornbinder]

I bought an American Rotary Phase Converter. I now think this may be over-kill for my situation. I bought the phase converter on Amazon. The price was very good. I now think I could have done a motor change-out for less. I am mounting the PC to a used pressure washer cart. I want the RPC to be portable. The motor/generator is over 45kg. The control box is less than 10kg.

 

[bubinga]

Speed control on a band saw is nice. I’d do the VFD

Agree!

 

[seber]

Check marketplace and Craigslist for a motor. Should run $25 to $30. If you don't find one, then VFD.

 

[vpd66]

VFD for sure!

 

[tool_scrounge]

I swapped to a single phase motor on my Powermatic 143. I was able to find a nice barely used one locally for about $40. Otherwise I would have gone the VFD approach.

 

[timgunn1962]

VFD every time, assuming the motor can cope with the waveform and there is nothing that needs mains Voltage for control.

If it's practicable in your case, consider a VFD setup with a trailing control pendant and a 3-phase socket on the output. It's a bit more hassle initially, but means you can run anything with a 3-phase motor, up to the rating of the VFD.

 

[exmaxima1]

Kind of a toss up with a half horse motor, cost wise anyway I'd think. Probably stick with the usa 3 phase motor and a 1 hp vfd.
Those motor bearings are probably shielded and full of sawdust!

Agreed. The power is proportional to the rpm, so there's not much left of that 1/2hp motor when you try to reduce the speed with a VFD. Better to find a 1hp (or bigger) 3-phase motor and matching VFD. Or just get a single-phase motor and be done with it since that saw has a gearbox and all the speeds you would likely ever use.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Coincidentally, I dealt with this exact problem just yesterday: an older Powermatic drill press that has too many phases trapped in the motor. My solution, ironically, was to find a local electric motor shop - such things do still exist - and ask the guys at the counter what I should do: these are the guys that deal with nothing but motors and electricity every day, after all.

I'll summarize the subsequent 30+ minutes of discussion by saying this: not all motors are created equally...so there's no singular, always-correct solution to your question. Because of the condition, size and authenticity of my motor, the best option for me was a VFD that was sized correctly, which had a control set that was easy for me to understand, and which could be easily installed in my pico-sized shop. Replacing my motor with a 115/230 equivalent - also easy to wire - would have been more than twice the price of the VFD, and installing a rotary phase converter didn't make sense for me at all. I also paid less for the VFD than I would have gotten it for online, and I now have some local support for what I'm buying.

 

[alfadan]

I bought a CHICOM 1.5hp 240v motor from vevor on ebay for my Delta sander. It was about $160 with free shipping, so not too bad. Longevity? We'll see.

 

[PMD1966]

Over the years I have purchased old air compressors with rusted out tanks. Motors were 3 to 5 horsepower. Paid 30 to 50 dollars for the compressors. Might be a source for a motor.

 

[DocsMachine]

One big thing that no one's mentioned: Soft start.

My DoAll bandsaw came with a 1/2 HP single phase, and basically "slammed" to a start each time you turned it on. I never liked that, it felt like somebody was kick-starting it with a sledgehammer.

I replaced that with a 3/4 HP 3-phase I had laying around, and an Automation Direct 1HP, 110V VFD. (It converts both phase and voltage.)

With a 2-sec or so ramp-up time, it's of course a lot smoother starting it up, and almost certainly easier on the gearbox and Reeves drive.

If it were up to me, that's the route I'd go.

Doc.

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

New motor. It’s a bandsaw for heavens sake not a lathe

 

[bubinga]

I swapped to a single phase motor on my Powermatic 143. (POWERMATIC 143 14-inch Band Saw) I was able to find a nice barely used one locally for about $40. Otherwise I would have gone the VFD approach.

ls yours the wood metal model?

 

[bubinga]

New motor. It’s a bandsaw for heavens sake not a lathe

E-Z now. I think a VFD would be nice to fine tune speed, wouldn't have to change belts very often either.

 

[bubinga]

One big thing that no one's mentioned: Soft start.

My DoAll bandsaw came with a 1/2 HP single phase, and basically "slammed" to a start each time you turned it on. I never liked that, it felt like somebody was kick-starting it with a sledgehammer.

I replaced that with a 3/4 HP 3-phase I had laying around, and an Automation Direct 1HP, 110V VFD. (It converts both phase and voltage.)

With a 2-sec or so ramp-up time, it's of course a lot smoother starting it up, and almost certainly easier on the gearbox and Reeves drive.

If it were up to me, that's the route I'd go.

Doc.

Nice. Reeves drive and VFD is a hot/slick set-up.
Running that set-up on my Oliver 159 wood lathe. My VFD ls 110V too!

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

Not trying to be a smart *** but I was looking at the economics. Most of us don’t have a money tree in the back yard. Haven’t checked lately but pretty sure a VFD setup would be a lot more $$$. Do you really need to change speeds that often??

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Thanks for all the input guys. I got down to Louisville and got the saw picked up and home. See below for pics. Looks like my 1973 saw got the smaller 1/2 HP motor. Plate shows it’s 3 phase 208.

Does that knock the idea of running the existing motor with a VFD out of consideration?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Not trying to be a smart *** but I was looking at the economics. Most of us don’t have a money tree in the back yard. Haven’t checked lately but pretty sure a VFD setup would be a lot more $$$. Do you really need to change speeds that often??

Vfd for a small motor can be found for around $100.

 

[seber]

Nice saw.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

Not trying to be a smart *** but I was looking at the economics. Most of us don’t have a money tree in the back yard. Haven’t checked lately but pretty sure a VFD setup would be a lot more $$$. Do you really need to change speeds that often??

To quote exact figures: a decent VFD for my motor priced out at $215, all-in. A quality motor, equivalent to what I already have, was $445. I'm sure that some of that is due to local supply and demand, but VFDs need not be super-expensive for a home shop.

Also, Hoosier, that's a dope motor plate. I wouldn't want to lose that, but I care about such things.

 

[bubinga]

Not trying to be a smart *** but I was looking at the economics. Most of us don’t have a money tree in the back yard. Haven’t checked lately but pretty sure a VFD setup would be a lot more $$$. Do you really need to change speeds that often??

Probably Not.

 

[CallumRD1]

The huge advantage of a VFD that I love is being able to cut aluminum (~1000 sfm) and wood (~3000 sfm) on a single-speed bandsaw.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

The huge advantage of a VFD that I love is being able to cut aluminum (~1000 sfm) and wood (~3000 sfm) on a single-speed bandsaw.

While there are OEM vfd equipped wood/metal band saws out there (Grizzly has a couple) I LOVE the gearbox mechanical approach Powermatic used with the vintage 143. That caused me to stay with this one when another buyer kept bidding against me. Even needing a different motor solution, I think $530 was a good deal.

 

[ez-duzit]

...A quality motor, equivalent to what I already have, was $445...

Oh come on! What kind of GJ-er are you?

An old Jewish guy once told me: "The Jewish people have many names for a man's 'equipment'. But a schmuck is someone who pays retail."

 

[CallumRD1]

While there are OEM vfd equipped wood/metal band saws out there (Grizzly has a couple) I LOVE the gearbox mechanical approach Powermatic used with the vintage 143. That caused me to stay with this one when another buyer kept bidding against me. Even needing a different motor solution, I think $530 was a good deal.

Absolutely. I would love a gearbox saw like that!

 

[bubinga]

While there are OEM vfd equipped wood/metal band saws out there (Grizzly has a couple) I LOVE the gearbox mechanical approach Powermatic used with the vintage 143. That caused me to stay with this one when another buyer kept bidding against me. Even needing a different motor solution, I think $530 was a good deal.

It was still a good deal. l have the Delta 14" like that.

 

[PoorUB]

Thanks for all the input guys. I got down to Louisville and got the saw picked up and home. See below for pics. Looks like my 1973 saw got the smaller 1/2 HP motor. Plate shows it’s 3 phase 208.

Does that knock the idea of running the existing motor with a VFD out of consideration?

Only if you want more HP.

No reason you can not run that motor off a VFD, but you may want more power depending on your intended use.

 

[bubinga]

Only if you want more HP.

No reason you can not run that motor off a VFD, but you may want more power depending on your intended use.

Smallest pulley on your Jack-shaft to largest pulley on the lower wheel should give you your most torque. Then crank up your Hz if you need a little more speed. lf it's not working out for you; l would think you could always get another 3-phase motor on Craigslist reasonable/cheap!

 

[tool_scrounge]

ls yours the wood metal model?

Yes, I have the Powermatic 143 wood/metal bandsaw.

It came painted factory yellow and in very nice condition as it had not been used a lot. The reason it was not used a lot is the sheet metal cover interferes with the saw blade teeth. Unbelievable loud screeching noise when running. It was supplied by Powermatic this way. Even so, I paid the $200 asking price. After an evening of carefully slotting sheet metal cover mounting holes with a round file, it runs very quiet.

I do like the simplicity of the 4 steep pulley + 2 speed oil bath gear box design compared to a Reeves drive. It is a very heavy and stout bandsaw for its size.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Only if you want more HP.

No reason you can not run that motor off a VFD, but you may want more power depending on your intended use.

So, how would I wire up a vfd rated at 220-240 3 phase output to a 208 motor? The motor plate says voltage 200-208.

 

[PoorUB]

So, how would I wire up a vfd rated at 220-240 3 phase output to a 208 motor? The motor plate says voltage 200-208.

You can set the output voltage for most VFD's.

I have installed many VFD's over the years. I have never seen one that was 220 volt only, they all could be set to 208 volt too.

Perhaps there are some out there that are 220-240 volt only, I have never seen one. Just be aware of the specs of the one you buy.

I have a Teco L510 on my PM1200 drill press that is 120 volt in and 208-240 out. Nice thing is it will plug into a 15 amp 120 volt outlet.

 

[Dave Bonzo]

I have a Teco L510 on my PM1200 drill press that is 120 volt in and 208-240 out. Nice thing is it will plug into a 15 amp 120 volt outlet.

Question: what motor is on your PM1200? Mine is a 1.5HP and it was easier to get a 230v-in unit to run it. I know it would draw more amps, but being able to run that drill on a standard outlet would have been nice...

 

[PoorUB]

Question: what motor is on your PM1200? Mine is a 1.5HP and it was easier to get a 230v-in unit to run it. I know it would draw more amps, but being able to run that drill on a standard outlet would have been nice...

Pretty sure it was a 1 HP.

1.5 HP on a PM1200? Wow! I never have any power issues with the 1 HP!

I don't know if you will find a 120 volt in that would run 1.5 HP.

I guess it would depend on the amp draw as the VFD doesn't know HP, just amps. The Teco L510 120 volt is will do 4.3 amps out. If your 1.5 HP motor has a lower amp draw than that it should work. The only other issue is amp draw in the 120 volt side. It will put 19 amps at full load. If you have good 20 amp circuits I would go for it. With a drill press you are not going to max out the amps often, or for a very long time.

I run my wire feed welder on a 120 volt 20 amp circuit and it draws over 20 amps at full load.