30 amp 220 breaker without a connecting bar?

[STINEY]

I saw this picture on another post and I borrowed it for illustration purposes.

See the bottom left twin 30 amp breaker?

We recently bought a HUD house as-is and found a similar breaker in its' box. I assumed that the PO simply removed the connecting bar and used it as 2 - 30s.

But seeing this, I am wondering if these are actually made?

And if so, for what purpose?

 

[Falcon67]

Looks like someone that didn't know better just bought two 30A breakers for that use. Very bad idea, not to code AFAIK and out right dangerous. Tandem breakers are common and not expensive - that looks kinda like a GE/generic and a dual 30A at HD is less than $10. So no excuse IMHO for not using the right part.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Lin...rcuit-Breaker-THQL2130/100356511#.UoEGbuL3Aak

 

[STINEY]

The picture may just look that way, but in my instance it is actually a Tandem breaker with no connecting bar.

I assume it is a PO hack-job, but I'm always open to learning something new.

 

[djjsr]

I'm not an electrician, so I have 2 (probably stupid) questions about that photo.

Is it possible that there are two separate circuits that are 30 amp, 120 volts? I think 30 amp circuits are unusual for 120 volts but I've seen receptacles for them so they must exist somewhere.

Is it ok to have that plain unmarked white wire connected to a breaker?

 

[theoldwizard1]

We recently bought a HUD house as-is and found a similar breaker in its' box. I assumed that the PO simply removed the connecting bar and used it as 2 - 30s.

It is illegal either way. No connecting bar on a 240V breaker is illegal. White for hot on a 120V circuit is illegal

If the 2 wires coming off are back and white, it is likely a 240V circuit (water heater, stove, dryer). The white wire should be colored red with permanent marker of red tape at BOTH ends !

Most breaker manufacturers make/sell connecting bars which would make it legal.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What does this circuit feed? Are the breakers riveted together or are they 2 individual breakers? What is the m/n of the breaker?

If this (or these) breakers are feeding a 240v circuit and theyre 2 individual breakers, then they should be swapped for a common trip breaker!

If instead the circuit is a MWBC, then it needs a handle tie to be code compliant.

And just for sh*ts and giggles, that panel is NOT code complaint as it has different brands of breakers.

 

[BillK]

Also looks like the wire is awful small for a 30 amp circuit. Should be #10 I think. Looks like the same size as the one on the 20 Amp GFCI

 

[nwav8tor]

Is that a 20A GFCI breaker in the panel and is it missing a black wire out to a circuit? All I see is the coiled white wire to the bus bar, and as I'm surely NOT an expert and I've never used such a thing, I'm assuming that MIGHT be OK???

 

[ishiboo]

Is that a 20A GFCI breaker in the panel and is it missing a black wire out to a circuit? All I see is the coiled white wire to the bus bar, and as I'm surely NOT an expert and I've never used such a thing, I'm assuming that MIGHT be OK???

Or AFCI, not familiar with GEs. Either way it is not in use as it has nothing attached to it

Also looks like the wire is awful small for a 30 amp circuit. Should be #10 I think. Looks like the same size as the one on the 20 Amp GFCI

Depends on the load too, for example an AC might require only #12 with a 30-amp breaker.

 

[BillK]

stiney,
I just read your original post again and realized that we are not looking at your actual panel but a picture of a similar one. How about a picture of your panel ?? The only way you will know for certain is to turn the breaker off and see what happens ?? I think they make tie bars for certain brands of breakers, but if it is indeed a 220 circuit then I would probably replace it with a true 2 pole breaker.

 

[STINEY]

I am not questioning what the circuits are.

Was just curious if there were tandem (riveted) 30 amp breakers manufactured with no tie bar, or if the PO removed the tie bar.

I have a couple of extra tie bars from some bad breakers, I'm just going to tie this one together and use it for a water heater circuit.

 

[pattenp]

Eaton doesn't have a tandem 30A breaker like that. Those in the picture are two full size breakers and if they are riveted together then it's a double pole that is missing the handle tie.

I am not questioning what the circuits are.

Was just curious if there were tandem (riveted) 30 amp breakers manufactured with no tie bar, or if the PO removed the tie bar.

I have a couple of extra tie bars from some bad breakers, I'm just going to tie this one together and use it for a water heater circuit.