30x50 Mueller build (KY) thread

[Smiles79]

Looking good! How much of a pain in the *** is it to get the sheeting lined up properly and installed?

What did you go with for insulation?

 

[readhead]

The insulation doesn’t look bad at all. I can’t tell from the pictures of the walls but when you get to the roof work from the door end to the back so you can’t see the laps in the insulation.
Good job so far.

 

[quakerj]

Looking good! How much of a pain in the *** is it to get the sheeting lined up properly and installed?

What did you go with for insulation?

The sheeting goes together pretty easily. I found it best to check at least every other panel for plumb as I was installing them, that allows you to make incremental adjustments to keep them plumb. If you get too far off plumb and have to make larger corrections, say at the end of a sheeting run, the next panel won't lap correctly. The sheeting was honestly the easy part; this building would assemble in no time if I didn't have insulation to deal with. But without insulation, all you have is a metal tin can IMO.

I used the vinyl backed fiberglass insulation which I believe is the standard for red-iron buildings, it's all I've ever seen installed in them. Specifically I used 3" thick R10. I'm very glad I did--- once the insulation is installed, I was floored at the level of soundproofing it provides which will be a real bonus aside from moderating temperature swings. Next time I'm in there swearing at a car I'm working on (happens fairly routinely, my way of letting off steam , the neighbors will probably appreciate it.

I know spray foam is an option for these buildings, but IIRC some manufacturers (not sure about Mueller specifically) won't honor the corrosion warranty on the panels if it is used. And then I'm not sure how you prevent metal to metal heat transfer from the walls to secondary framing when using spray foam. I like the white backing of the vinyl, gives the building a more finished look since I'm not planning on framing in any walls.

 

[quakerj]

The insulation doesn’t look bad at all. I can’t tell from the pictures of the walls but when you get to the roof work from the door end to the back so you can’t see the laps in the insulation.
Good job so far.

Never thought of that, but makes perfect sense. I ended up doing the exact opposite (on both walls and roof), but if I ever build another one, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

My land has a prevailing wind direction (90% of the time it comes from the west, which is an open field for a couple miles with no trees or obstructions), so I opted to orient the laps away from the wind. Not sure how important that is, but that was my thought process. This also set it up so that panel laps aren't visible from the front or left side of the building, where it's most commonly viewed from. I can't think of a way to accommodate hiding both exterior panel laps and insulation laps (in this building orientation), but if there is, I'd love to know.

The insulation laps blend in well except for a few spots that I'll use some of the white vinyl tape the insulation company included, which seems to match extremely well..

RH, hopefully you can help me with this: Mueller included closure strips that fit under the roof @ the eave (that I've been using), but also what appears to be opposite hand/exterior closure strips, which were shown as "optional accessory" in all their drawings/documentation. I didn't opt for anything extra when ordering the building, so I was surprised to find these. Where would they normally be installed? They also included some other things like the base trim which were labeled on the drawings as an added-cost option that I didn't order, but I discovered those in time and installed them.

 

[readhead]

The outside closures go under the ridge cap and behind the eave flashing on the walls. Did you get buytal tape for the roof laps and under the rake trim where it screws to the roof?

 

[quakerj]

The outside closures go under the ridge cap and behind the eave flashing on the walls. Did you get buytal tape for the roof laps and under the rake trim where it screws to the roof?

Yep, I have the butyl (sp?) tape and have been using it on the roof laps and under the peak sheets according to their installation manual.

I think you either get peak sheets or the ridge roll/cap, one or the other, so I don't think I need the outside closures at the roof peak since I have the peak sheets if I understand this correctly.

So I'm guessing I just missed putting the outside closure behind the eave trim/flashing, which was listed as optional-- I'd still like to have them there, is it possible to just stuff them up under there? I really don't see anything in the way that would prevent that.

If I'm way off base here (entirely possible), please correct me, and thanks again for the help.

I won't be finishing the roof until later this week when wind calms down. I hadn't noticed the requirement for the sealant tape under the rake trim, I'm glad you mentioned that.

 

[readhead]

Getting it under the eave trim can be tedious especially if it has adhesive on it. You may have to install lap screws through the trim into the ribs to hold it in place.
It sounds like you have the crimped ridge sheets which are a pain. If you are doing one side of the roof at a time do not shrink or stretch the top of the sheets, only the bottom, and keep the top on layout. Start the other side from the same end. Figure out where the ridge sheets should land and snap a line on the first side to keep the ridge sheets straight. It is very easy to get the ridge sheets out of square. Install the ridge sheets as you go so everything stays on layout.

 

[quakerj]

Getting it under the eave trim can be tedious especially if it has adhesive on it. You may have to install lap screws through the trim into the ribs to hold it in place.
It sounds like you have the crimped ridge sheets which are a pain. If you are doing one side of the roof at a time do not shrink or stretch the top of the sheets, only the bottom, and keep the top on layout. Start the other side from the same end. Figure out where the ridge sheets should land and snap a line on the first side to keep the ridge sheets straight. It is very easy to get the ridge sheets out of square. Install the ridge sheets as you go so everything stays on layout.

Yep, these are the crimped sheets and you're right-- they're not very forgiving. I'm installing the roof sheets in pairs (in other words eave to eave) and on the first run, I set the peak sheet over top to verify good fitment. That was at the suggestion of my Mueller rep. I then ran a couple more panels (eave to eave) and installed the peak sheets right way. If I could tell it was getting off a bit off, I adjusted the bottom of the roof panel like you mentioned, but it hasn't taken much; they've aligned pretty darn well for the first third of the roof that I have done so far.

Probably not the most efficient way to put on a roof, but I've had the good fortune of no rain, so I've been able to take my time. Should be finishing the roof up this week.

 

[quakerj]

Finally emptied my yard of building parts and put the last piece on yesterday.

Few loose ends to tie up, nothing major. Came out good, though I have some oil canning on the front trim which bothers me, I'll probably try to address that at some point. Also I have some gaps at the closure strips on the eave, if anyone has suggestions on how to remedy that, I'd appreciate it. I figured some kind of caulk/sealant. Those things are difficult to install because they have to be put on just right, can't stretch or compress them at all or it creates a gap.

I probably spent too much time stressing about not having enough help, but overall it wasn't difficult; aside from the frame, most of it takes 2 people though an extra hand helps especially with the insulation. Now I can move onto more enjoyable things like garage door, electric, gutters, some site leveling/drainage and especially installing 2-post lift. Definitely on the downhill side.

Still need to get my county inspector out here to finalize my building permit.

 

[buzzworth]

Very nice ! You'll have it filled up in no time. (and wishing it was bigger )

 

[Jayman17]

I like the color you chose for your shop.

Jay

 

[quakerj]

Got the lift finished today. Instructions were terrible and they had the chain routed wrong from the factory, the secondary safety locks wouldn't work. So I had to remove a lift cylinder after it was installed which was quite messy, in order to reroute the chain. The other side I figured out how to do it without removing the lift cylinder, but having the lift cylinder there bruised up my hands pretty good working in that tight space. Oh well it's done now and I can put cars in the air. Still don't have electric (probably tackle that in the next month or two), running it off a 240V generator for now.

Seems my math worked out, I can put my tallest vehicle over my head (I'm 6'2) and I still have 1-2' of clearance before I come close to the roof purlins, on a building with 12' eave height. Still a little apprehensive working with 4800lb of vehicle over my head, but I'm sure I'll get used to it

I was a bit uneasy about installing it since my garage door won't be coming in for another 4 weeks, but if somebody wants to steal this thing, they better bring a lot of help. It's not coming down without a fight.

 

[Smiles79]

Got the lift finished today. Instructions were terrible and they had the chain routed wrong from the factory, the secondary safety locks wouldn't work. So I had to remove a lift cylinder after it was installed which was quite messy, in order to reroute the chain. The other side I figured out how to do it without removing the lift cylinder, but having the lift cylinder there bruised up my hands pretty good working in that tight space. Oh well it's done now and I can put cars in the air. Still don't have electric (probably tackle that in the next month or two), running it off a 240V generator for now.

Seems my math worked out, I can put my tallest vehicle over my head (I'm 6'2) and I still have 1-2' of clearance before I come close to the roof purlins, on a building with 12' eave height. Still a little apprehensive working with 4800lb of vehicle over my head, but I'm sure I'll get used to it

I was a bit uneasy about installing it since my garage door won't be coming in for another 4 weeks, but if somebody wants to steal this thing, they better bring a lot of help. It's not coming down without a fight.

Man, I'm jealous! What lift did you go with? Apologies if you mentioned it already.

 

[Spud McGee]

Definitely not gonna have to worry about termites in that one.

 

[quakerj]

Man, I'm jealous! What lift did you go with? Apologies if you mentioned it already.

I went with the Derek Weaver W-9KFP. It's their budget model, baseplate style, which doesn't really bother me as I mostly work on FWD vehicles, so the baseplate being in the way of transmission jacks and such really isn't an issue. I'm just a hobbyist and this suits me fine, just needed something to keep my back off the ground, tired of crawling under vehicles. My main criteria (with both lift and building) was lifting high enough that I wouldn't have to duck underneath things, and not run into the ceiling. Worked out fine.

I've never had a lift before and I'm amazed already what you can see and get to-- things I used to struggle with (or were impossible) with the vehicle on the ground.

The symmetrical lift style (cheaper) makes it a squeeze to get out of the vehicle once it's in position on the lift, and Derek Weaver's website was a bit misleading about the safety release. They state "dual safety release" which I took as a feature-- that a single lever would release both. Nope, you have to release each one individually, but not the end of the world as long as it works properly.

 

[quakerj]

Got the electric tidied up, panel fully mounted. Ran a trench from the house to the shop 18" deep and put in 2-2-2-4 MHF cable in some 1-1/2" PVC conduit. Easy run, walls were facing each other about 50' apart, took about 70' of cable accounting for depth going underground and such. Worked out great and should be code compliant to 90A.

Put a temporary 120V quad receptacle and a 240V outlet in just to run things until I can get EMT conduit run and outlets placed where I want them.

Also finished installing the first lighting circuit, used 15A breaker /14ga MC cable for that, but nearly all of it is hidden. Picked up a bunch of LED fixtures on clearance at Rural King about a year ago for $4 a piece, too good a deal to pass up and figured I could utilize them in the shop somehow... I think they turned out pretty good. I still have to put in real overhead shop lighting, but at least the LED fixtures will keep the sides of the building out of the shadows, which is typical on a lower roof height when you just install overhead lights.

 

[Smiles79]

How are you mounting the conduit to the steel?

 

[quakerj]

How are you mounting the conduit to the steel?

For the EMT, it depends. Anything exposed that I don't want fasteners showing on (like screws or bolts through the steel), or the larger framing members I'll probably use the little C-clamps that a normal conduit clamp attaches to (see photo). Anything way up high or out of view, I'll probably just use EMT clamps attached with self tapping screws or drill and use a through bolt.

 

[Smiles79]

For the EMT, it depends. Anything exposed that I don't want fasteners showing on (like screws or bolts through the steel), or the larger framing members I'll probably use the little C-clamps that a normal conduit clamp attaches to (see photo). Anything way up high or out of view, I'll probably just use EMT clamps attached with self tapping screws or drill and use a through bolt.

Nice, I wasn't sure if it was generally acceptable to drill and tap holes into that stuff.

 

[quakerj]

Nice, I wasn't sure if it was generally acceptable to drill and tap holes into that stuff.

It's not terribly different from wood. Don't go hollowing out huge holes in it and you shouldn't have any trouble.

On the Z and C steel shapes (light gauge secondary framing), I try not to drill holes in the flange/toes unless I can't avoid it, as that's where it derives a significant amount of its rigidity from. But screws are fine. The web (long part) has a whole lot of surface area, it's generally safe to drill holes or screw into them there.

Heck delivered from the the building manufacturer, you get a whole lot of extra holes you don't need (in both flanges and web), because they're often made to fit a variety of different buildings. So I might need holes 2" in to put mine together, but the next guy building his 2' taller, might need holes 6" in. It'll have all the holes so one piece can be made for many different building types, even though you don't need them.

 

[Moto-Dude]

Great build, any updates?

 

[quakerj]

Great build, any updates?

I've been enjoying the building and space so much I've neglected this thread. In actuality, some of the later stuff I've done I split into different threads covering it, because I had questions.

But here's the cliff notes:

Garage door was installed last December 2022. Just in time for a serious wind storm (70mph+ gusts) in Feb 2023 that ripped down trees in my yard and we lost power for 4 days. Building handled it just fine, but wind was straight line right at the garage door which looked like a balloon about to burst when standing in the building. It was scary but it made it.

Had to go with a conventional overhead garage door opener-- door was too tall in relation to the eave height (rafter in the way) to install a side mount / jackshaft opener. Not a big deal, the big dog (most expensive I could find) overhead opener does the job, and doesn't get in the way of anything. The belt drive is extremely quiet.

Finished up electric and placed outlets at least at every column location, with a few others. Almost every outlet location is on an independent 20A circuit, giving me room to expand to more outlets as I need them. Ran 240V to the lift, air compressor, a welder outlet, and I have a 6ga ( up to 60A circuit) wired in that I'm currently not using. It might be an electric car charger in the future, transfer switch for a generator, who knows.

Finished up overhead lighting and went with 16 edison screw outlets instead of a few hardwired LED fixtures. I've seen too many LED fixtures burn out prematurely, and there's plenty of nice LED screw in bulbs that you can just throw out and reinstall when they burn out.

In late spring into summer I installed two 2-ton (24K btu) mini-split heat pump units. One is more expensive than the other with higher efficiency. It's supposed to heat down to some -20F, whereas the less efficient unit is good down to around -5. It hasn't gotten cold enough to really test them out for heat, but on 30F nights, they are more than capable of maintaining 65F+ inside the shop without breaking a sweat. In mid-summer they were a dream-- walk into an 85F shop, and it'll drop temp 10 degrees or more in less than an hour. I generally only use them as I need them (though I'll keep heat on to maintain at least 40F) and only saw my electric bill go up about $30 more in any given month where I used them. Most months the difference was negligible.

I've been careful not to put much stuff in there until I get some tall heavy-duty shelving that will allow me to store things using the building's height instead of floor space. That's my big goal over the winter is to organize and place things strategically where I still have plenty of open space on the floor. I like the open space, allows me to have room for poker parties, gatherings, etc.

Not much I would have changed, maybe a walk out door or something in the rear of the building. But very happy with it so far and get a lot of comments from folks that visit who are used to traditional wood pole framing around here.

 

[xx_ED_xx]

I know this is an older post but I am interested in the same building from the same company. Was curious if you got plans with it I am needing info to do my permits in AZ. Ty