32x48 pole barn that needs help. Experienced people please enter

[DirtyMerty]

Hello everyone, new guy posting here and looking for some advice, tips or if you know of threads with similar builds that you could link to me so I can gather more info on what to do with my situation. I just bought this house in December in Forest Lake, MN. So we only get so many months to work on stuff before the cold winter comes. The house was built in 1973 and according to the previous owner the pole barn has been there since he moved in 30 years ago, so not sure on the age of it. My problem is, that all the posts at the bottom have become rotted and need to be fixed. The main reason I am having this issue is the grading around the pole barn needs to be sloped a little different. The driveway in front of the pole barn slopes down to the building and behind it there is a grass hill that slopes down to the building. Also every time it rains all the water goes off the roof onto the side of building. The ground is clay for the most part and doesn't soak up the water to well. I want to restore this building and make it into my automotive shop for side work and hobbies. Need to know what direction to take first

 

[DirtyMerty]

 

[DirtyMerty]

After a snow melt or rain I get standing water around the whole inside of the building which explains the rotten posts.




It does get dry in the summer so I think, this pic of it dry is when I looked at the house in the fall

 

[DirtyMerty]

I had a guy from Structural Building Inc. come out and give me a quote on repairs. He said that they would dig down to frost line (4 ft.) and bolt on a green treated 3 ply 6x6 on each side of the rotten post to where the post is solid. He said he would not cut off the rotten post because of the possibility of damaging the base board and metal siding cutting the nails that secure the board and metal to post. As far as keeping the water out, I was thinking drain tile around the building, sloping the ground around the building to a down grade and maybe a gutter system. He quoted somewhere in the neighborhood of $5k, I would rather save the money and do that myself so I can have more funds to finish the building. Again, looking for ideas or threads of members doing a similar repair/restore. Thank you in advance

 

[tomroblee]

As much as you don't want to hear it, your barn has reached the end of its economic life.

That being said, my wife's cousin "fixed" a FEW rotted (and termite infested) posts in an older pole barn by cutting the posts at a point where the wood was still solid and replacing the lower portion with rebar reinforced concrete piers. He fabricated his own steel brackets to attach the posts to the new concrete piers.

There are several websites that show the general process.

http://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/repairing-barn-support-posts.html

Another similar solution would be to replace the rotted portions of the posts with manufactured steel reinforced concrete posts made by Perma-Column. I used these when I had my barn built about 8 years ago to avoid future issues with rotted posts. Their website shows how the repair process works.

https://www.permacolumn.com/perma-column-post-repair

Perma-Column also makes a bracket that can be used for post repair by pouring your own column.

https://www.permacolumn.com/sturdi-wall-plus-post-repair

Note that the instructions say "Do not bump or fully load the repaired post for 30 days."

 

[DirtyMerty]

As much as you don't want to hear it, your barn has reached the end of its economic life"

When you say reached its economic life, are you saying if this was your building you would tear down and start over? Just wondering what you're implying. I understand that posts like this havea life expectancy of 30 or so years. My thoughts are there is about $10-12k of material I would be saving by just keeping the building. Its still solid and from what I have seen on this forum, in better condition then some restorations in here. I was also thinking of installing sono tubes filled with concrete and installing brackets with rebar to attach to posts. Thank you for the links, that gives me some more ideas. Any other suggestions or links are welcome!

 

[jives]

Are you sure those posts are PT? They look rough sawn.

 

[lakeroadster]

I had a guy from Structural Building Inc. come out and give me a quote on repairs. He quoted somewhere in the neighborhood of $5k

As much as you don't want to hear it, your barn has reached the end of its economic life.

It's only at the end of it's usable life if it is no longer worth at least $5 grand. It's worth a lot more than that.

First order of business is to install rain gutters and grade around the building so water runs stays away from the posts.

Pick an option for post replacement. Concrete is forever... that seems the most logical.

 

[tomroblee]

You may be able to get some more information about the age of your barn from the County Assessor's records. Washington County Minnesota seems to have property record information online.

http://washington.minnesotaassessors.com/search.php

Perhaps this forum isn't the best place to suggest giving up on a building. Since you asked, I will answer. If it was my building and I wanted a place to store my tractor for a few years (I'm a geezer and won't be needing a storage building for very many more years), I would invest $5000 to have the posts "fixed". If I wanted a finished and heated building, I would certainly consider starting from scratch on an elevated building pad.

As well as the condition of your building, you need to consider a few other things:

If you tore down your existing building, would zoning, building regulations, homeowners associations, or ??? prevent you from erecting a new building?

What would be the property tax and insurance effects of finishing your building versus starting from scratch on a new one?

Will the building code and permit folks allow you to finish your existing building the way you would like?

Even if your barn will be in "good" condition after fixing the rotted posts, is it structurally suited for finishing? The pictures show the trusses to be homemade and spaced about 8' apart. Are the trusses strong enough to support a ceiling and insulation? Is the building tall enough for your intended uses?

You say that you want to use the barn for automotive "side work". Does your zoning allow the operation of a business on your property? If not, will building a new building or making major improvements to your existing building draw the attention of any "enforcement" folks?

 

[CNGsaves]

It's only at the end of it's usable life if it is no longer worth at least $5 grand. It's worth a lot more than that.

First order of business is to install rain gutters and grade around the building so water runs stays away from the posts.

Pick an option for post replacement. Concrete is forever... that seems the most logical.

^ ^ ^ This. Most definitely pursue "Perma-column" style solution.

You might consider cutting off bottom several feet of exterior metal and improving look of building with veneer brick as you rebuild. This would give you room to work as you're cutting out the bad posts.

I'd also improve "bones" of the roof rafters/trusses so you could have nice ceiling and blown-in insulation. Ventilation needs planned/implemented so once you have heat, the snow for your MN climate doesn't cause roof problems.

Absolutely, that sliding door would have to go. Replace with large roll-up door.

Improve building with a man door, windows, etc. as well.

OP . . . are you considering radiant heat capability when concrete floor poured ??

 

[Pointbock]

Is that a Gilson snowblower? If yes, then you have the right mindset to save the old building. Get your grading sorted out, preferably with an old Allis Chalmers, Massey Ferguson, or Minneapolis Moline, then start replacing post bottoms and putting up gutters.

If you're just storing the rusty old thing for your brother-in-law, well, then call up Morton or Cleary and just write a check.

 

[matt_i]

Are you sure those posts are PT? They look rough sawn.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think they would ever make it 30 years due to no pressure treatment. They should be planed smooth like 2x lumber and not have circular saw markings on them.

Also, looks like paved asphalt on the inside instead of concrete. Cannot tell for sure. Definitely a crossroads here. To really have something nice and long lasting I think its time to really think about starting over. Obviously will be more than the 5k but you can probably get a better net result in the end, especially if you want to go heated/cooled insulated route. If its just going to store a few things and never be more than that I'd consider putting the money into fixing the posts.

 

[chaosracing]

You can fix this, but you are going to be in for alot of work.
What I would do is cut off your existing metal siding at the 2x4 just above the skirt boards. Guessing its about 3-4' off the ground. Then using a transit or laser level, find the highest rotten spot on a pole. Measure about 2-3" higher and use that as your common cut off spot. Then one by one, dig down at each post to your frost line(only do one post at a time). Attach some 2x8 to prop up the pole you are working on. Cut off the post on your mark. Attach a post base made to be put into poured concrete. Use a sono tube to form up your new foundation. Back fill tube and pour your cement. Then I would get new siding and trim to cover up what you removed. I would also replace all of your skirt boards.

Putting gutters on will definitely help, but remember to add snow guards to prevent the snow from ripping them off (trust me, you will need them)

If you properly regrade your land around the barn, you will not need drainage, except maybe at the front where the driveway slopes down to the pole building.

 

[webdog]

You can fix this, but you are going to be in for alot of work.
What I would do is cut off your existing metal siding at the 2x4 just above the skirt boards. Guessing its about 3-4' off the ground. Then using a transit or laser level, find the highest rotten spot on a pole. Measure about 2-3" higher and use that as your common cut off spot. Then one by one, dig down at each post to your frost line(only do one post at a time). Attach some 2x8 to prop up the pole you are working on. Cut off the post on your mark. Attach a post base made to be put into poured concrete. Use a sono tube to form up your new foundation. Back fill tube and pour your cement. Then I would get new siding and trim to cover up what you removed. I would also replace all of your skirt boards.

Putting gutters on will definitely help, but remember to add snow guards to prevent the snow from ripping them off (trust me, you will need them)

If you properly regrade your land around the barn, you will not need drainage, except maybe at the front where the driveway slopes down to the pole building.

I would do it just as above, one at a time. Brace the truss, cut the post, dig it out, put in a new post, bolt both posts together, concrete, and repeat.

 

[REKIII]

IF you install gutters, be careful of the snow load. Looks like your trusses are pretty far on center and your perlins are small. Gutters will casue more snow to stay on the roof.

Do you want a concrete floor? It will be fairly easy to jack the building up, cut all the posts, poor the slab with flanges set in to bolt the posts too.

Then grade appropriately around. I laid down a strip of #2 Stone about 30" wide down both sides of my shed to stop the rain run off from undoing my grading. No gutters then.

 

[ishiboo]

IF you install gutters, be careful of the snow load. Looks like your trusses are pretty far on center and your perlins are small. Gutters will casue more snow to stay on the roof.

Do you want a concrete floor? It will be fairly easy to jack the building up, cut all the posts, poor the slab with flanges set in to bolt the posts too.

Then grade appropriately around. I laid down a strip of #2 Stone about 30" wide down both sides of my shed to stop the rain run off from undoing my grading. No gutters then.

That would probably be my route as well. Lift the building, do the grading work so the building is far enough above the ground, build a monolithic slab and drop it down.

 

[sledneck32!]

Lotta good points to consider ....

Now of course i dont know your financial situation or personality.... But imho saving this one could very possibly cost the same or more than starting new.

Maybe depends a little bit if ur doing it on the sly or if ur gonna pull permits...

It definitely looks like it needs to get raised a couple feet to stay dry...

The more "finished out" you want it, the less money you are going to save, if u even save any at all.

To build that shell new im guessing material would be under $10,000 at menards. That is about the most basic, easiest to build that exists. Might even be less.

Honestly, it could easily end up costing you for sure $5,000 and more likely closer to $10,000 by the time u get posts replaced, raise the floor height or cut drainage swales around it. Then u gotta get rid of the sliding door and fill in with regular garage door(s).....

I hate to say it but there are sooooo many things that are gonna crop up here. Youll have to add soffits, or some way to vent the attic. Idk how u would without soffits? Are the trusses gonna bow even more when u knock out the knee braces and add weight to ceiling? Hard to tell for sure, but imo if you were to pour a slab at exisiting height, you would have serious frost heaving issues that would turn a concrete floor into rubble. Basically itd be like pouring a slab on a mud puddle. No way to keep the subgrade dry.

Otoh, if you have a lot of stamina, and r looking to fill your evenings for a couple years or more, cut the chatter an have at er.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[DougWil]

Replacing the posts and using it as a barn is viable.
Doing that and upgrading it to nice shop isn't.

 

[CNGsaves]

Looking at pictures again, sure looks like asphalt driveway runoff just goes downhill right into the building. I'd be immediately planning a solution for directing water away from that open door up front.

Also, on sides of building, you can see problem with not having gutters as water has cut line in soil below speeding up rotting of all those posts as it splashes on building.

IDEA: several giant long steel beams and raise the entire building as if moving
. . . . . then, put in monolithic slab as mentioned above w/ radiant heat in concrete
. . . . . after . . . raising the entire level of building with proper fill material

This would give best chance for long-term viability of the building.

 

[DirtyMerty]

Are you sure those posts are PT? They look rough sawn.

They don't seem to be, the base board for sure is.

It's only at the end of it's usable life if it is no longer worth at least $5 grand. It's worth a lot more than that.

I agree here^^^ I think the building is worth at least 10k plus all the labor/money to build it. I would rather have a free slab of concrete and maybe a door

Washington County Minnesota seems to have property record information online.

http://washington.minnesotaassessors.com/search.php
Is the building tall enough for your intended uses?

You say that you want to use the barn for automotive "side work". Does your zoning allow the operation of a business on your property? If not, will building a new building or making major improvements to your existing building draw the attention of any "enforcement" folks?

Thank you for the link, I found the home impovements done to the house but nothing on the barn, I have a couple neighbors that have been here for 30 years I'll ask them. As far as work in the garage, I wont have a business in the building just something to make side cash and mainly my car/metal work hobbies. From the ground to the ceiling is 12 ft and the hoist is 11 ft so I'm good with height. As far as zoning/permits and all the other costs, I would like to keep most of the work inside and try not to deal with the city on some of it

Also, looks like paved asphalt on the inside instead of concrete. Cannot tell for sure. If its just going to store a few things and never be more than that I'd consider putting the money into fixing the posts.

There is a mix of asphalt in there with some class 5 from what I can see. It could be removed with a skid. Debby downer, I see potential in this thing and think it can be used as a shop with a good face lift

You can fix this, but you are going to be in for alot of work.
What I would do is cut off your existing metal siding at the 2x4 just above the skirt boards. Guessing its about 3-4' off the ground. Then using a transit or laser level, find the highest rotten spot on a pole. Measure about 2-3" higher and use that as your common cut off spot. Then one by one, dig down at each post to your frost line(only do one post at a time). Attach some 2x8 to prop up the pole you are working on. Cut off the post on your mark. Attach a post base made to be put into poured concrete. Use a sono tube to form up your new foundation. Back fill tube and pour your cement. Then I would get new siding and trim to cover up what you removed. I would also replace all of your skirt boards.

Putting gutters on will definitely help, but remember to add snow guards to prevent the snow from ripping them off (trust me, you will need them)

If you properly regrade your land around the barn, you will not need drainage, except maybe at the front where the driveway slopes down to the pole building.

I agree with this just not the cutting the metal siding

That would probably be my route as well. Lift the building, do the grading work so the building is far enough above the ground, build a monolithic slab and drop it down.

I have considered this and have seen it done in here a couple times. I talked to a buddy of mine that said he had house jacks and would consider doing this^

Lotta good points to consider ....

Now of course i dont know your financial situation or personality.... But imho saving this one could very possibly cost the same or more than starting new.

Maybe depends a little bit if ur doing it on the sly or if ur gonna pull permits...

It definitely looks like it needs to get raised a couple feet to stay dry...

The more "finished out" you want it, the less money you are going to save, if u even save any at all.

To build that shell new im guessing material would be under $10,000 at menards. That is about the most basic, easiest to build that exists. Might even be less.

Honestly, it could easily end up costing you for sure $5,000 and more likely closer to $10,000 by the time u get posts replaced, raise the floor height or cut drainage swales around it. Then u gotta get rid of the sliding door and fill in with regular garage door(s).....

I hate to say it but there are sooooo many things that are gonna crop up here.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

I am getting married this September and need to buy a zero turn mower so I have no money to spend this year, just getting ideas for next year. But if I decide what to do I could do the post repair this summer. I dont think it would be even close to 5k for post repair. I will be doing most the work myself with a couple friends. Definetly want to get rid of the sliding door! Lets be optimistic here

Replacing the posts and using it as a barn is viable.
Doing that and upgrading it to nice shop isn't.

You must not have any faith^^^ or see enough of the posts the amazing people on here can do

Looking at pictures again, sure looks like asphalt driveway runoff just goes downhill right into the building. I'd be immediately planning a solution for directing water away from that open door up front.

Also, on sides of building, you can see problem with not having gutters as water has cut line in soil below speeding up rotting of all those posts as it splashes on building.

IDEA: several giant long steel beams and raise the entire building as if moving
. . . . . then, put in monolithic slab as mentioned above w/ radiant heat in concrete
. . . . . after . . . raising the entire level of building with proper fill material

This would give best chance for long-term viability of the building.

The driveway definetly goes down into the barn, then the back of the barn with the hill, double whammy. I could do a drain system in the driveway and do asphalt in the front of the whole building.
Thank you guys for responses. I really think this building is just fine and I save time and money by keeping it. I will try and get a couple more pics of the trusses and the structure

 

[lakeroadster]

Replacing the posts and using it as a barn is viable.
Doing that and upgrading it to nice shop isn't.

You must not have any faith^^^ or see enough of the posts the amazing people on here can do.

Well said...

 

[DougWil]

You must not have any faith^^^ or see enough of the posts the amazing people on here can do

Economically viable, sure almost anything could be done if you throw enough time and money at it.

 

[zendriver]

your barn has reached the end of its economic life.

Hmmm, in recent years I rehabbed a 130 year old small barn, that was 11 degrees out of square. with 4x4s, eye bolts and 8 come-a-longs, it's now in square and with a partial new metal roof, is now functional and at a cost of about $1200

I would have given my first born to have the building of the OP.

If it were mine, I'd do this ( in order)

1. Find out everywhere the water is coming from and do what it takes to move it somewhere esle.

2. cut off the rotten bottoms of the posts and pour a concrete pier under each, to bolt them to. make the pier with exposed re-rod, that can be tied into a concrete slab, that you will want later.

with the exception of the slab ( which you will want regardless) this should not be an expensive repair.

 

[Roberts210]

You can fix this, but you are going to be in for alot of work.
What I would do is cut off your existing metal siding at the 2x4 just above the skirt boards. Guessing its about 3-4' off the ground. Then using a transit or laser level, find the highest rotten spot on a pole. Measure about 2-3" higher and use that as your common cut off spot. Then one by one, dig down at each post to your frost line(only do one post at a time). Attach some 2x8 to prop up the pole you are working on. Cut off the post on your mark. Attach a post base made to be put into poured concrete. Use a sono tube to form up your new foundation. Back fill tube and pour your cement. Then I would get new siding and trim to cover up what you removed. I would also replace all of your skirt boards......................

I agree with this except I would use a couple of bottle jacks to raise each 6X6 just a tad, and hold it up while I was doing the work below it. I have done something similar to a building larger than this one. Your pole barn can be saved but you'll have a lot of work to do first.

 

[DirtyMerty]

So...I finally am selling my rental house and can fund a pole barn. After talking to a few custom building erectors, we have come to the conclusion that it would be to much time, effort and money to save this "old" rotted pole barn. The trusses are to old and would need modifying to even consider passing inspection for snow load and what not. So now I want to know if any of you think I could put this pole barn on Craigslist and make an add to come tear it down and haul out material. Do you think its worth it for someone to come out and haul it away for me where I could aks $$ for it? or no? If not, should I tear it down myself and keep some material for a future shed? Someone give me your thoughts.

 

[Mikeske]

To many flakes from Craigslist anymore, personally just tear it down carefully saving what ever you want. They start over.

 

[Marctrees]

"End of Economical life" ????

NO.

The building seems solid, other than at ground posts.

Fix the problem, keep the building for 100 years. Marc

 

[DirtyMerty]

 

[atch]

so..............

Are you saving materials for reuse; or scrapping the whole shebang and starting from scratch?

We can assume that the drainage issue will be dealt with.

 

[ezover]

I have a question about this problem. my barn will be getting to this point in the next 5 + years will be my guess.

my thoughts are to dig next to each pole 4' down and sister a 4x4 or 6x4 to it, then cover with siding. is there a reason why something like this would not work?

 

[bannerd]

I have a question about this problem. my barn will be getting to this point in the next 5 + years will be my guess.

my thoughts are to dig next to each pole 4' down and sister a 4x4 or 6x4 to it, then cover with siding. is there a reason why something like this would not work?

There is a saying, if wood touches earth, it becomes earth.

Best to get concrete under there with proper draining.

 

[DirtyMerty]

I have a question about this problem. my barn will be getting to this point in the next 5 + years will be my guess.

my thoughts are to dig next to each pole 4' down and sister a 4x4 or 6x4 to it, then cover with siding. is there a reason why something like this would not work?

we were going to fix this barn doing something similar to what you are saying or using cement permacolumns. If you have enough time on your hands and fix the water intrusion problem, you can probably fix your situation. My barn was over 35 years old and the columns were not even treated. It would have cost me to much time and money to fix, also it is only 1500 sq feet and I am allowed 2500 sqft on my property so I chose to tear it down

 

[DirtyMerty]

so long story short, I put the pole barn on craigslist and sold it in a couple days. Guy came and looked at it, asked what I wanted and I said make an offer. $300 was the offer and that was including him tearing it down and hauling it away. I accepted the offer and a week later he came out with some of the hardest working farm boys I every met. His old man even came out and was busting his balls. They came over last Saturday and I had to work. My wife sent me these pictures that I am posting and at first, I thought they were getting a deal and I should have asked for more. Well, when I came home from work at 6p.m. the guy who bought it had the look of defeat and regret on his face. Most of what he wanted to salvage was getting destroyed or just nailed together to well. He ended up cutting all the purlins on the trusses because the nails were like shanks and he could'nt get them separated. I ended up putting on a pair of gloves and helping them out the rest of the evening because I felt bad. He wanted to get the job done and not have to come back because he lived 80 miles away, so he ended up chainsawing most of the last bit and was in F it mode. I heard him mumble "don't know what I was thinking" and thats when I was relieved that I did not take on this task and try and save material.

The first truss he took off ended up folding in half

He had an awesome trailer that had a crane attached to it which helped him a lot




At the end of the night, whatever he didn't take I ended up having a big fire

 

[Riley]

And with that....wala...finished...

Now for the fun stuff of planning the new one!

 

[rburke65]

I think the posts that you had were just rough cut oak...non treated ...posts. But I thinkYOU did ok selling it. Make sure you raise your building foot print so it's high and keep it dry. Grading so it stays high n dry. Gutters and down spouts and have the rain drain away from the building.....others wise you will have the same problems as the previous owners. Plan, plan, plan.Good luck.

 

[astroracer]

Here are a few barn planners to look at. The grizzly one is more of a shop planner but it will let you do an interior layout so you know what kind of room you'll have. The last one will give you an updated price quote as you add or change things.
http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner
http://wickbuildings.com/mywick/design3d/stoneybrookconstruction.com
http://www.pole-barn.info/InstantQuote.html
Mark

 

[DirtyMerty]

And with that....wala...finished...

Now for the fun stuff of planning the new one!

wheew. I was getting tired just watching them, plus I would have to put all of it somewhere

I think the posts that you had were just rough cut oak...non treated ...posts. But I thinkYOU did ok selling it. Make sure you raise your building foot print so it's high and keep it dry. Grading so it stays high n dry. Gutters and down spouts and have the rain drain away from the building.....others wise you will have the same problems as the previous owners. Plan, plan, plan.Good luck.

posts were definetly rough cut. I plan on raising the pad about 6 inches or so and putting in a swale on eash side of the barn that will run off into the pond

Here are a few barn planners to look at. The grizzly one is more of a shop planner but it will let you do an interior layout so you know what kind of room you'll have. The last one will give you an updated price quote as you add or change things.
http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner
http://wickbuildings.com/mywick/design3d/stoneybrookconstruction.com
http://www.pole-barn.info/InstantQuote.html
Mark

thank you for the links! they will come in handy

 

[DirtyMerty]

Alright, so here is the plan. I made another page called 40x62 Clay mist Colonial red build unless I can change the title of this thread? That is exacty what I am doing, building a new pole barn built by Northland Buildings Inc. It is a 40x62x16 and I will be turning building 90 degrees so the gable end with the garage doors will be facing the road. The plan is to have my excavator neighbor come over and put in a driveway that will come in from the road straight to the building. We will raise grade about 6 inches and put swales on each side that will have water run south towards the pond behind the building.

with the building removed the 32x48 pad looks so much smaller

here she is. Two 12x14 overhead doors with a service door on the side. Three windows four feet high on the eave end. I was planning on putting the building in the same location but after thinking what I would do to get a long trailer or what not in the building and keep the water out, it was best to turn it. So now with that being said, I dont want the windows there anymore. I don't like the idea of having people being able to see inside, even though I don't live in an area where there are problems that doesn't mean that the people that come around don't have bad intentions. So, I am thinking of having two 4x2 windows on the gable end on the south side of the building about 12-14 feet high to let some daylight in and also in the future I plan on putting a mezzanine in the back of the building which would have those windows at mezzanine level.

Let me know your thoughts on window placement and if you have any suggestions or advice. Thank you

 

[stm317]

You could always do rectangular windows higher up the walls like this:

With a tall building like yours, it shouldn't be difficult to install them high enough to keep prying eyes out, and still let lots of light in. You'll have a lot of real estate on those walls between 10-16ft high to play around with specific placement.

 

[atch]

...Let me know your thoughts on window placement and if you have any suggestions or advice. Thank you

Not advice, but an observation:

My buddy Ed built a shop about 20 years ago. He didn't actually install windows, but installed framing for them up high. Metal building skin goes right over the framing and insulation is in this framing. His thought was that if he decided to put them in it would be VERY simple. After using his shop all this time he's still glad he didn't put the windows in. The building is super secure and he doesn't miss the natural light. He feels the insulation value (where the windows would be) is more valuable to him than the light would have been.

He does keep minimal heat on all winter even if he's not in there working; eliminates condensation all over his expensive tools and machinery. This is in Missouri where the winters are colder than the south and warmer than the north. Our design temperature for HVAC systems is 0* F. Obviously your winters are a bit chillier than ours.