3way switch wiring trouble existing wiring

[Snap-Off]

tstang90........An update would be nice

 

[rhastings80]

You sure somebody didn't try and wire it as a California 3 way switch? See http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/odd_3_way_switch.gif

From Wikipeida
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiway_switching#California_3-way

The California 3-way, also known as a coast 3-way, is a method of wiring using four conductors and two three-way switches. It allows for a hot receptacle at both ends of the circuit as well as switched light outlets on both ends. Its main benefit is that it saves on conductors passed back and forth between two locations, such as a house's entrance and a detached garage. Its main drawback is that it's wired up to the 3-way switches in a non-standard manner that can cause confusion and mis-wiring for anyone who follows the initial installer. When wired correctly, it does not pose an electrical code violation as the neutral is never switched.

The California 3-way system should not be confused with the Carter system. The California 3-way is legal, but confusing.

 

[tstang90]

ill look into this more. I got wrapped up in other house projects today.

I was up in the attic and I see 3 seperate wires( runs) going into the fixture box.
I guess I didnt see them. I'll take the fixture down again and see.

Weird things is it looks like there is 2 runs coming from the switch #1 area then the 3rd run goes off to another room.

Thing that has me puzzled now is when I pull the switch#1 out of its box I don't have that extra runs in that box other then the power source and the 14-3 wire going to switch #2.

So I'm not sure where that unidentified wire is coming from or doing.

None of the wires are going to switch #2 other then the 14-3 wire from switch #1.



Someone asked where the switches and light was in relation to the structure.

switch #1 is at the top of the stairs
switch #2 at the bottom of the stairs
and the light fixture is at the ceiling on the top floor above the stairway.

 

[oleguy]

I did look at the link, http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/3-way/3-way-wiring-power-fixture-same-switch.php more than once. The box S1 is installed in, has seven (7) conductors in it. Does it not? Apparently your vision is being effected by too much bingo? I'm trying to figure out his (tstang90's) wiring problem, NOT troubleshooting a properly wired circuit. Never claimed a junction box is needed.

just looked again...blk and white hot in and neutral,white,red,blk of traveler(12-3).you are counting the arrow lines from info box.5 altogether.

 

[Snap-Off]

just looked again...blk and white hot in and neutral,white,red,blk of traveler(12-3).you are counting the arrow lines from info box.5 altogether.

Ok.....this is the last time I'm going here

Seven conductors going in and out of S1-box.

1. Power supply- two (2) conductors (black and white)
2. Between S1-box and light fixture box- two (2) conductors (black & white)
3. Between S1-box and S2-box- three (3) conductor cable (black, red & white)

2+2+3=7

 

[MrMark]

ill look into this more. I got wrapped up in other house projects today.

I was up in the attic and I see 3 seperate wires( runs) going into the fixture box.
I guess I didnt see them. I'll take the fixture down again and see.

Weird things is it looks like there is 2 runs coming from the switch #1 area then the 3rd run goes off to another room.

Thing that has me puzzled now is when I pull the switch#1 out of its box I don't have that extra runs in that box other then the power source and the 14-3 wire going to switch #2.

So I'm not sure where that unidentified wire is coming from or doing.

None of the wires are going to switch #2 other then the 14-3 wire from switch #1.



Someone asked where the switches and light was in relation to the structure.

switch #1 is at the top of the stairs
switch #2 at the bottom of the stairs
and the light fixture is at the ceiling on the top floor above the stairway.

See, you have a back fed three way. Ignore everything else in this thread and go back to the back fed three way drawings. The electrician used that light fixture as a j-box to run power to various places.

I still say all you have to do is switch the traveler and common at one of the switches, as they are crossed. It will be like, presto, wow! And you will be a genius to all!

 

[MrMark]

WOW..... ..... I think I'm gonna ignore you!

sorry, what did I do?

I thought new information came into play here that changed the discussion back to the back fed drawings?

No?

I didn't want to offend

 

[oleguy]

Ok.....this is the last time I'm going here

Seven conductors going in and out of S1-box.

1. Power supply- two (2) conductors (black and white)
2. Between S1-box and light fixture box- two (2) conductors (black & white)
3. Between S1-box and S2-box- three (3) conductor cable (black, red & white)

2+2+3=7

this is the drawing.from the link.show me 7 wires in s1 box.

 

[Snap-Off]

See, you have a back fed three way. Ignore everything else in this thread and go back to the back fed three way drawings. The electrician used that light fixture as a j-box to run power to various places.

I still say all you have to do is switch the traveler and common at one of the switches, as they are crossed. It will be like, presto, wow! And you will be a genius to all!

...............................

 

[MrMark]

...............................

now you have me really confused. I want to help this guy and I think he has a very solveable simple problem. I want to see him succeed and impress his family.

 

[Snap-Off]

this is the drawing.from the link.show me 7 wires in s1 box.

Post #45 is my final answer.

 

[oleguy]

ok snap off i see what you are saying.to busy looking at lines.forgot about white and black are spliced going to lite.at least you got one right.lol

 

[Snap-Off]

I want to help this guy and I think he has a very solveable simple problem. I want to see him succeed and impress his family.

Nothing wrong with that

 

[Snap-Off]

ok snap off i see what you are saying.to busy looking at lines.forgot about white and black are spliced going to lite.at least you got one right.lol

 

[tstang90]

guys thanks a bunch for all your help. Im trying my best to describe what i have.

There is alot of side talking in this thread making me even more confused.

What I think I need to do at this point is pull the fixture down and see whats there. Any testing methods i should perform while i have it apart? Feel free to add some things to do or look for.
Or do i just report back with what i find in there?


O Ill def be the hero when this light switch thing is fixed even in my own eyes lol

 

[MrMark]

Just report back what you have in that light fixture. Take a picture if you can.

Don't shock yourself.

 

[tstang90]

ok i pulled the fixture and both light switches again to take pics hope this helps in aiding me fix this nightmare.

OK the 1st diagram is hand drawn to show what the wiring was doing in teh light fixture in case the actual pic didnt come out clearly.

The 1st light pic top rom to the right & 2nd row on left shows the upstairs switch which is #1 it has the power source coming into it and the 14-3 wire that runs to the down stairs switch#2.

The last 2 pics show switch #2 on both sides

Hopefully this will make some more sense.

Keep in mind i went up in the attic there is no junction box but there are 2 wires that run from switch #1 area to that fixture. when i throw the breaker 2 small bedrooms and that light loose power. So im sure its wired in that run some how.

Thanks

 

[MrMark]

Please describe all the connections, with colors, of the wires in the first box. Tell where the wires from the 12/3 are connected by color. Same for that 12/2. Tell us what is nutted together in that first box. It's hard to see.

 

[MrMark]

I think all you have to do is switch the white and the black on the 2nd switch.

The incoming 12/2 WHT is nutted to the WHT from the 12/3 in the first box, correct?

 

[tstang90]

i have a diagram drawn 1st pic of that light fixture box.

I dont know how else to explain it better then that.

Thanks

 

[MrMark]

That incoming 12/2 WHT that is nuted to the 12/3 WHT in the first box is the incoming power, correct?

 

[tstang90]

I think all you have to do is switch the white and the black on the 2nd switch.

The incoming 12/2 WHT is nutted to the WHT from the 12/3 in the first box, correct?

that is correct

 

[MrMark]

i have a diagram drawn 1st pic of that light fixture box.

I dont know how else to explain it better then that.

Thanks

You can't just state the connections, by wire color?

That picture doesn't tell us anything.

If you want help you have to cooperate.

I'm out.

 

[tstang90]

You can't just state the connections, by wire color?

That picture doesn't tell us anything.

If you want help you have to cooperate.

I'm out.

Cooperate??

I guess I can't really answer your question cause i dont understand the question apperantly.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[MrMark]

just switch the wires on the second switch.

All I wanted was for you to state:

for the 12/3: the white is nutted to the wht of the 12/2, the red is connected to the gold screw of the switch, the black is connected to the other gold screw of the switch.

for the 12/2: the white is nutted to the wht of the 12/3, the black is connected to the black screw of the switch.

BTW, is all that correct?

If so, then switch the wires on the second switch


EDITED to clarify that the BLACK AND RED OF THE 12/3 are connected to the gold screws and used as the travelers. Make sure I have that right.

 

[tstang90]

will try that now thanks

 

[tstang90]

i switched the white and black wires on switch #2 no luck.