40 X 60 Northwest Garage Build

[jaredfloyd]

The Plan:
View media item 10428View media item 10429View media item 1044040 X 60 with 14 foot wall stick frame - vaulted ceiling with scissor trusses
6" reinforced slab with geothermal heat pump - radiant floor heat
Two 10 x 10 doors and one 12 x 12 door
Lots of windows up high for natural light
12 X 18 office
18 X 28 fab room (dirty bay)
320 amp electrical service with plans for PT-355 Digital Phase Converter
Two 2 post lifts
Plumbing for bathroom and water spigots
Wired for communications from house
Primary use will be street and track car design, fabrication, and tuning
Comments and suggestions welcome

Project begins - June 10, 2011 Day 1
View media item 10430June 16, 2011 - Dug down to solid clay and added pitrun to footing grade
View media item 10431I'm getting a shop so the family gets a new garden and playground
View media item 10432Running water from house to garden
View media item 10433June 26, 2011 Garden almost complete
View media item 10434Shop construction took a 2 week break
July 6, 2011 Garden and Playground
View media item 10435July 8, 2011 Shop construction resumes, drain plumbed to septic system and footing forms in place
View media item 10436July 11, 2011 Footing reinforcement, drain cleanout, conduit for water, com, extra 2" for future use
View media item 10437Pump truck
View media item 10438First pour
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[hick]

Wow.

I am printing off those designed and hanging them on my wall. Perfect.

Can you tell me what program you used for that? I don't care for google sketch up.

 

[jaredfloyd]

SolidWorks CAD software. Not the greatest for achitecture but I can't stand working in 2D (autocad, etc).

 

[Bib Overalls]

Going to be nice. Taking care of the wife and kids is good family politics. When I retired my wife got a pool and deck. I got a shop.

Fast forward. Currently building a garden shed for my wife with a storage section for me. Win win is better than alimony!

 

[larry_g]

It looks like you have two lifts in the same bay. Do you plan to lift two rigs that are in the bay end to end and only a 40' bay. Wouldn't that get kinda tight? I know from working in many 24' deep shops that 24' is to short to work comfortably around a single rig so two in 40' seems really tight.

Otherwise I think your plan looks great. Are you going to give us a plan wth the interior walls?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[neonnblack]

It looks like you have two lifts in the same bay. Do you plan to lift two rigs that are in the bay end to end and only a 40' bay. Wouldn't that get kinda tight? I know from working in many 24' deep shops that 24' is to short to work comfortably around a single rig so two in 40' seems really tight.

Otherwise I think your plan looks great. Are you going to give us a plan wth the interior walls?

lg
no neat sig line

I noticed that also, im thinking he couldnt find a 4 post model to fit in their so used two, two posts.

 

[YNOT2K]

where are you in the Northwest? i'm in Lynnwood, WA and would be interested in hearing more about your work on street/track cars and tuning. if you're close by maybe i could stop by and check the progress of your build too. looks like you have it under control so far!

 

[jaredfloyd]

It looks like you have two lifts in the same bay. Do you plan to lift two rigs that are in the bay end to end and only a 40' bay. Wouldn't that get kinda tight? I know from working in many 24' deep shops that 24' is to short to work comfortably around a single rig so two in 40' seems really tight.

Otherwise I think your plan looks great. Are you going to give us a plan wth the interior walls?

Working on the exact placement of the lifts now. It will be tight but most of the vehicles on the lifts will be very small (sports cars). I'm used to working in a 22' long bay with a single asymmetric lift which is fine for sports cars but gets a little cramped with larger vehicles. Planning to have 8'6" in front of the forward lift and 12' behind the rear lift (using two asymmetric two post lifts). Most long vehicles (trucks) eat up space on the rear side so I can either use the forward lift with nothing on the rear lift and have 30' of clearance or use the rear lift with the 10' x 10' door open. I'm planning to put work benches on the side of the lifts rather than in front to get as much working clearance as possible. One thing to consider is that a tandem lift setup can share the clearance at one end (rear clearance of front lift can overlap the front clearance of the rear lift - clear as mud right).

If it ends up too cramped, I'll move one lift to the center bay.

 

[jaredfloyd]

where are you in the Northwest? i'm in Lynnwood, WA and would be interested in hearing more about your work on street/track cars and tuning. if you're close by maybe i could stop by and check the progress of your build too. looks like you have it under control so far!

In Bellingham area. Moved from Lynnwood a few years ago.

 

[jaredfloyd]

July 12, 2011 Stem Wall Forms
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View media item 10477July 13, 2011 Stem Wall Pour
View media item 10478July 14, 2011
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[tinbender 66]

Gonna be a nice big building!! Looking at the surrounding area, I guessed that you were north of me. Those foothills looked familiar. I live in Arlington. My son lives in B'ham and goes to Western. Looking forward to seeing this one take shape.

 

[redman43]

I went to Western too a few years back. If that's the B'ham area, you must be out there. I don't recall seeing that much space anywhere near town or campus.

Looks like its going to be a great building.

 

[combatic]

Holy chinchilla! I can not believe how much room you have up north Jared! If I ever get out of my shop I will stop by! About to put the 911 on blocks and do some rust surgery on the front so I might be 'offline' for a while 14' walls eh! You just had to go 1' 8" taller than me ...ha ha. Good call on the high windows. The wall space is going to be a premium once you start moving in. Ask me how I know. Very cool shop and congrats on breaking ground.

Bryan

 

[jaredfloyd]

Lots of Western Alumni on here including myself (Class of '99) and Bryan (combatic).
Bryan, I realize building a shop and a 911 make it hard to find the time to update a build thread but you should really have your shop build on here.

 

[Highbeam]

The good alumni are from UW (99 myself)!

 

[IdahoJoe]

The good alumni are from UW (99 myself)!

No. They aren't.

 

[CamarosRus]

I'd like to learn what is the purpose of having the stem walls, instead of framing the wall on top of a shorter footing.

I'm a naive newby when it comes to cement pouring and wood framing.

Also would like comments from Western WA locals as to pros and cons of a stick framed shop vs a "pole bldg" design vs steel (for that matter)

Thanks for the education

FYI, I live in Renton,WA and am wanting to buy a home with shop in South King County
or House with land and have shop built.

 

[Motofixxer]

The most obvious is the moisture aspect from washing the floor or vehicles in there. Another advantage is the termite issue in those area's with them. Get the wood up as high as possible.

 

[klkruser]

Make sure you run the gable studs full length to the underside of the roof deck or you will have a hinge rather than solid lateral support.

Ask me why I know...LOL...I had to cut out every 3rd plate to scab on some full height studs after my truss engineer pointed it out for my scissor trusses. I'm just 20 minutes north of you in Langley BC. Check out my build:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106028

 

[combatic]

I'd like to learn what is the purpose of having the stem walls, instead of framing the wall on top of a shorter footing.

I'm a naive newby when it comes to cement pouring and wood framing.

Also would like comments from Western WA locals as to pros and cons of a stick framed shop vs a "pole bldg" design vs steel (for that matter)

Thanks for the education

FYI, I live in Renton,WA and am wanting to buy a home with shop in South King County
or House with land and have shop built.

CamarosRUS,
You will have to check your local building code. Pole buildings go up very fast and are usually much cheaper than stick frame buildings but I don't thing they can go up in 'city limits'

In hindsight I should have built stem walls and a foundation but I poured a turn down slab (forms only on the outside) to 'save time and money' b/c I was the one building all the forms. I ended up spending way more on concrete and I ended up having to seal all my base boards and used plastic 1x6 base boards so I can rinse my shop out if need be. PITA to build and caulk everything. I wasted time and money in the end.

Pole buildings will last usually 15-20 years or longer if you set pressure treated poles in gravel for drainage. Concrete is a no no. It seals the moisture in according to some research I did a while back. Drainage will have a direct impact on the longevity of your poles. Or these could be compelling and maybe cost effective. I just stumbled onto these...permacolumn

Btw- Think about wooden telephone poles...they last a while but I think the bases are soaked in creosote or oil...just like back on the farm

Steel buildings go up fast and are generally cheaper than a stick frame building. When I was considering building I didn't feel comfortable trying to finish the interior and have a good result. As a matter of personal taste I generally don't like steel buildings, they stick out like a sore thumb and they can be so much bigger than the residence. Durability is similar to a stick frame building if taken care of and you can have very wide spans engineered for no posts. Stick frame starts limiting out at 40' wide for clear spans anything wider and costs go up up up.

Stick Frame is what I went with for the following reasons. a) I have done enough remodels and building over the years that I am very comfortable working with wood walls and I know how to attach to it, modify the layout, make it structural etc. b) I wanted my step-dad to help me frame it up because he was a carpenter long ago and I got to spend time with him while building my shop. c) my shop is very close to my house so eventually I will shingle it and then the two buildings will look the same and not hodge podge. Also, since I built it I did not incur all the labor costs. I actually only paid to have the concrete poured and finished my building is worth 3 or 4x than what I paid in materials.

whew, a lot to write but the takeaway is- cost, looks and durability are what you will be debating. If you build it yourself then you have to factor in what you are comfortable building...steel buildings are like erector sets with plans. Stick frame is straightforward IF you know what you are doing.

Good luck!

Bryan

 

[combatic]

Make sure you run the gable studs full length to the underside of the roof deck or you will have a hinge rather than solid lateral support.

Ask me why I know...LOL...I had to cut out every 3rd plate to scab on some full height studs after my truss engineer pointed it out for my scissor trusses. I'm just 20 minutes north of you in Langley BC. Check out my build:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106028

Nice build klkruser! I like the overhang on the front...that will be a nice place to watch are nw rain

 

[combatic]

Lots of Western Alumni on here including myself (Class of '99) and Bryan (combatic).
Bryan, I realize building a shop and a 911 make it hard to find the time to update a build thread but you should really have your shop build on here.

Jared, I was just looking at your pix again and realized they let you build your foundation base basically on grade! So easy! Shoreline would not let me do that which led me to turn down slab.

I think I will have to try and find some time to transfer my build over here. Jack Olsen was watching it and said the same...and he is like garage king or something now his garage was even on Jalopnik!

I just learned how to fully remove my strut and steering linkage tonight Now I must go collapse.

sneak peak of my mess-

 

[jaredfloyd]

Jared, I was just looking at your pix again and realized they let you build your foundation base basically on grade! So easy! Shoreline would not let me do that which led me to turn down slab.

Not quite. Hard to see in pictures but we dug down 2-3 feet until we hit solid clay. We then added pit run and compacted to raise the grade to the bottom of the footing. Now that the stem walls are done, we are filling it all in with more pit run.

The stem walls will only stick up 6-8" above the slab (which will be nice for cleaning the floor). The tall stem walls are used to get from solid original soil/clay to well above natural grade to insure it stays dry.

July 15, 2011 - Waterproofing footer to stem wall, adding perimeter drains and gutter drains
View media item 10539
July 18, 2011 Tunneled conduit under road for power
View media item 10540
Geothermal header tubes - yes they need to be separated more
View media item 10541
View media item 10542
Backfilled and compacted. Ready for a layer of pea gravel to level it out, poly film, and foam insulation.
View media item 10543
View media item 10544

 

[jaredfloyd]

I'd like to learn what is the purpose of having the stem walls, instead of framing the wall on top of a shorter footing.

I'm a naive newby when it comes to cement pouring and wood framing.

Also would like comments from Western WA locals as to pros and cons of a stick framed shop vs a "pole bldg" design vs steel (for that matter)

Hope the pictures above help explain the purpose of stem walls. Note that there will be 2" foam above the compacted soil and a 6" slab on top of that.
Regarding the pros and cons of stick vs pole vs metal, Bryan pretty much covered it but I'll add a few details. Pole buildings are cheap and fast and can be built without a concrete slab. A pole building with slab was about 30% cheaper than a stick frame. Also, a pole building does not need to be "engineered" in Whatcom county which saves more time and money. I very seriously considered a metal building as they go up very fast and are about 10% cheaper than a stick frame. I chose a stick frame because I want a finished interior and concealed wiring/plumbing. I also want to finish the exterior with siding to match the house.

 

[combatic]

Ah, I see how your footing and stem walls appear now. Thanks for posting up the progress pix! When does the slab get poured? Looking good!

Bryan

 

[klkruser]

Nice build klkruser! I like the overhang on the front...that will be a nice place to watch are nw rain

That's also why I have the front eave overhang 4 feet. We had some major torrential rain Saturday evening and no water at all in side the door openings. Jareds and my garage look very similar in foundation build, less the portico.

I figured I could also polish my 'bird under there if its hot n sunny.

 

[jaredfloyd]

July 20, 2011 - Drains/vents stubbed in
View media item 10668
July 21, 2011 - 2" EPS over Poly film
View media item 10669
View media item 10670
July 25, 2011 - Installing Geothermal ground loops, three 600 ft loops
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View media item 10673
Heat fusing header pipes to ground loops
View media item 10674

 

[rburke65]

Is that all you need for a geo heat is 1800' +- of buried pipe? And you are only down.....what?.....4'? thanks.

 

[jaredfloyd]

1800' buried 5+ feet with sufficient separation is generous for a 3 Ton heat pump system.

 

[PurdueSD]

Really nice! You are going to love those high windows. Ive got 2 in my shop and wish i had more.

I'm jealous of the 40' depth!

 

[Azgdds]

Can we get an update? I am looking at building something similar, maybe this fall/winter. In fact, purduesd's garage, is the first garage I really liked on this site that is similar to what I want to build.

 

[checkthisout]

I'd like to learn what is the purpose of having the stem walls, instead of framing the wall on top of a shorter footing.

I'm a naive newby when it comes to cement pouring and wood framing.

Also would like comments from Western WA locals as to pros and cons of a stick framed shop vs a "pole bldg" design vs steel (for that matter)

Thanks for the education

FYI, I live in Renton,WA and am wanting to buy a home with shop in South King County
or House with land and have shop built.

You can do a pole building with framing 16" on center and flush with the posts.

The benefit to having a foundation is the simple fact that it's going to settle less and last longer.

Having a stem wall is a matter of simply being able to achieve proper clearances above grade while having the proper width footing on solid ground.

Best to think of the stem wall as a footing extender. WW is almost all glacial till with 3-4 feet of loam until you hit pit run. Code generally requires you to dig down 40 inches into native soil for foundations. Not exactly cost effective to pour a footing that tall.

I would have a hard time believing that any county in washington would not require stamped drawings for any building that requires a permit.

 

[jaredfloyd]

August 2, 2011 - Radiant Heat, Slab reinforcement, & Forms. Pressure in radiant heat tubes and ground source tubes have remained at 110 psi for ~ 2weeks.
View media item 10907
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August 3, 2011 - Slab Pour 5:45 AM! Fiber reinforced concrete - 6" thick.
View media item 10911
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View media item 10914
Keeping the slab cool and wet. Wish it could always be that smooth and glossy. Polishing is not in the budget.
View media item 10916
August 4, 2011 - Saw cutting control joints the morning after the pour. Cuts are 1-1/4" deep and 10' on center. These will be filled with flexible crack filling epoxy.
View media item 10918
August 7, 2011 - After a lot of scubbing to remove the concrete dust from saw cutting, I applied a Densifier and Waterproofer from Legacy Industrial. Application was really easy especially considering the stories on this forum regarding other Densifier applications. I'd recommend applying the Densifier before saw cutting to eliminate the cleaning step.
View media item 10919

 

[rubberrodder]

I'm New to all this concrete work stuff, so please forgive an uninformed newbie. What is a "densifier" and what is its purpose? is it something required? Very cool looking build buy the way. I am takeing notes on this one!

 

[Motofixxer]

Best to do a search on that...It's been discussed a lot and lot's of opinions. That way you can get a lot of knowledge without it all getting repeated, and you having to wait for it.

 

[dlenkewich]

Man that's going to be a sweet shop.

Can't wait to see more.

 

[wyattboche]

Hope you got some grant money for the geo-thermal. It's not worth it unless you get government grants. Hope you prove me wrong. It's not working it Wisconsin.

 

[jaredfloyd]

Hope you got some grant money for the geo-thermal. It's not worth it unless you get government grants. Hope you prove me wrong. It's not working it Wisconsin.

Federal tax credit of 30% including equipment, labor, etc. Also, local utility rebates apply. Regardless - it's not cheap.

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

You sir are on the right path! 60x40 is my ideal size! I'll be keeping an eye on you.

 

[jaredfloyd]

August 12, 2011 - The wall panels arrive, are unloaded, and installed. The 4th wall will be constructed on site.
View media item 11042
View media item 11034
Panels were drilled for J-bolts, hold-downs, and conduit. Three guys and a forklift had all three walls up by 2 PM.

View media item 11037
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The shop did not look big enough when it was just stem walls and a concrete pad. With the walls now up, it looks huge.

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August 13, 2011 - Filled 3/16" control joints with 1/4" backer rod and Legacy Industries HD821 epoxy joint filler. I tried a few different techniques but ended up masking the joints and finishing with a 3" putty knife.
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