40x60 with Apartment - Floor Plan Review

[abwehrly42]

I am in the planning phase of constructing a steel building with living quarters. I will be living here by myself. The apartment will be one story with a storage mezzanine above. The shop will be used for parking my personal truck and work truck, and to work on my boats.

I have created a rough floor plan for the apartment and shop. I would appreciate any feedback.

20x40 apartment:

40x40 shop with 18ft door for trucks and 12x12 door for trailers. Green is pallet rack:

This design tool wouldn't allow me to draw the 18ft door, it is represented by the two 8x8 doors.

 

[ADSR]

Looks cool! When do you plan to build?

 

[TheOtherChris]

It looks like the lower shop has stairs in the corner going up but the upper apartment does not indicate where the stairs are.

 

[James-W]

The drawing looks like a good plan. Have you checked with the local building "powers that be" to see if they will approve it? I only ask because sometimes what we want to do and what they will allow us to do are two different things.

 

[bobforman]

Toilet and large sink on first floor?

 

[scooternut]

Have had this same building in my mind forever. I have the same questions as you and everyone else, so I'll be following.

 

[Marctrees]

I would make the BR smaller, and use the footage elsewhere.

And I would not have a separate from kitchen formal dining table at all, but a bit larger kitchen w table space for eating and working, and use the DR area to increase your "GreatRoom" LR size.

Good to keep living quarters on ground level, we all get older.

Great idea overall though, make sure you see the current thread -

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338540

Marc

 

[Terry D.]

The OP stated that the barn was 40x60, from that you can surmise that

20x40 of the ground floor is the apartment and a space of 40x40 is the shop. I would guess that the stairs lead to the top of the apartment for the storage/mezzanine. If you look at the first perspective, the far left of the building is the apartment and the far right is the shop. The double doors and two side windows are the clue.

Just my take....

 

[RWorth]

1 suggestion, large SS sink in the bathroom for cleaning up when leaving the shop.

1 prediction, after moving in you will realize the shop is too small and close in the lean-to as soon as financially possible.

 

[Marctrees]

Rworth - Looks like he already has a laundry tub there, good idea. Marc

 

[matt_i]

Just depending on how you use the boats (runabout, fishing?) its eventually going to be a pain to have one blocking the other one in unless that's just for winter storage. Granted you have a large roofed area which is excellent in my opinion, but Murphy's law says the one you want to use right now is the one in the back.

The downside of the roofed area is that its going to shade the sidewall windows, possibly good in summer but less good in winter.

I would try to place a sink right outside of the living area, just handy to wash up there before touching the doorknob with greasy hands, etc. Hopefully enough heat "leaks" from the apartment's shared wall to keep it above freezing. Or you could place a light bulb in the undercounter as a heating helper.

My other thought is it would seem helpful to add a window above the lean-to roof to help light the mezz area. Not required as there are electric lights but daylight is always brighter

 

[sberry]

The apt is large. I have lived in mine. 1/2 the floor space by putting office/kitchenette, a bathroom with laundry down in 114x20 and bedroom/living upstairs with bath and shower. and its huge at 19x20.

 

[barks]

Google barndominium. There are hundreds on the ground around Texas. Hundreds of plans out there.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Not sure since they show no door swing, but since it's just you, consider using pocket doors from bedroom to bath and closet.

I'd also agree on the dining room table. If it's just you, why use that area for a dining area ?

 

[Viper98912]

Everyone is different, so these are my personal opinions of what I would do if it were me:

1) 800 sqft living space isn't all that big, at least, for someone who has the funds for two trucks and a boat. I would make it at least 1000-1200 sqft; after all, you're a grown up right?

2) I assume you plan on having a lady friend or two over at some point in time; they won't care about the shop, they'll care about the living space. I highly suggest you spend some money in some nice stuff for your living space. If it's all about the shop, you'll turn many girls away and give off the wrong type of vibe of who you really are.

3) Walking through the kitchen to your bedroom isn't very "nice". Eliminate the 6 person dining table, and put the kitchen in the corner facing the living room. Open concept with easy access to food and a bar top is excellent when having your friends over. The game, the shop, whatever, it's nice.

4) In the current kitchen area (now moved), put a nice oversized counter height 4 person table. Really, it's just nice for yourself or two people (lady friend) but you can have more people eat there (friends) or a place to put food when your friends are over.

5) Make the master bedroom bigger. 15x15 at least (my current is 20x20, a little obnoxious at first, but you'd be surprised how you happily get used to it). Have at least a king size bed in there, plenty of nice furniture, etc. Remember, the ladies.

6) LIGHTING is what makes or breaks a place. Definitely install some nice modern fixtures and lots of recessed (and LED) lighting. It'll really make a place pop, and they're about the same price as traditional fixtures nowadays.

7) SPEND MONEY on nice things in the kitchen, that means stainless and granite or some other high end top (there's plenty of great deals out there on this stuff now). Don't put a cheap laminate top on there, it'll completely cheapen the feel of your entire building.

8) Add more windows, and bigger ones. Especially the living space, but I'd also consider more windows in the shop. If you want to really be nice, make an entire wall nearly all windows. You'd be surprised how awesome natural light is. Even when it's raining, humans naturally prefer to be outside enjoying nature (while at a nice and cozy and dry 72 degrees, of course).

9) Don't forget your outside parking area (with perhaps a nice deck or something to sit outside). You'll need to park SOMETHING outside at some point, whether you're just running in the house for something, or you need some open shop space for a weekend project, or you have a few friends come over.

Since you are starting from scratch, most of this stuff you can do for a great price. Normally when doing stuff like this for a remodel it gets expensive, but it's possible for great deals when done from the very beginning.

In the end, there's nothing like an awesomely sized shop that's a part of a really nice living space. If your living space is "just" a living space, well then it really makes your entire place feel lower end. You just have a large "cheap" building with an obnoxious shop and some cheap living space. You're already going all out for what you want, so go ahead and do it right - have a beautiful, modern, "expensive and custom" place with an awesome place for grown up toys

 

[Ben7203]

2cd vote to add a toilet in the shop area. Upstairs I would swap the stove and the sink. I like the cooktop/stove in the bar area so I see the TV or talk to my son or guest at the bar. This morning he cook the bacon, then I did the eggs while we watched Toons. Dinner was quesadillas at the bar watching the Giants and Cowboys. Also, get a couple of easy go to meals, the ladies will be impressed and most will clean up the kitchen too.

 

[abwehrly42]

I should have clarified, the apartment and shop will all be on one level. 20x40 apartment and 40x40 shop for a 40x60 footprint, with a 24' lean to on the back, and a 10' wrap around porch on the apartment end and across the front of the building.

The door from the shop to the apartment enters the mud room, which will have a large laundry sink, washer, and dryer. Then there is direct access to the bathroom so I can jump in the shower.

Have you checked with the local building "powers that be" to see if they will approve it?

I am going to the county codes department this week. I believe their only concern is to have additional fireproofing between garages and living spaces.

I would make the BR smaller, and use the footage elsewhere.
And I would not have a separate from kitchen formal dining table at all, but a bit larger kitchen w table space for eating and working, and use the DR area to increase your "GreatRoom" LR size.

Thanks for the input. I will have to think on the best way to expand the kitchen.

Just depending on how you use the boats (runabout, fishing?) its eventually going to be a pain to have one blocking the other one in unless that's just for winter storage.

My other thought is it would seem helpful to add a window above the lean-to roof to help light the mezz area. Not required as there are electric lights but daylight is always brighter

Matt, I fix up aluminum fishing boats. The boat parked next to the trucks will be the current project, adjacent to the workbench and tools. All the boats I use on a regular basis will be lined up under the 24' lean to behind the shop.

I considered arranging the roll up doors to be able to drive through the shop, but I think having to keep a path clear all the way across would cut down on the usable space considerably, and I would lose a parking spot under the lean to.

I am still researching, but I think I will mount something like a chicken house fan on the gable end over the lean to roof and opposite the large shop door. That way I could open the 12x12 and move lots of air through the building.

Not sure since they show no door swing, but since it's just you, consider using pocket doors from bedroom to bath and closet.

I like the space savings from pocket doors, but I hate using and working on them. My idea for the doors in question was to use interior barn doors that slide on tracks mounted to the wall.

 

[vwracer]

Your going to need a bigger bath. You won't live alone forever. Mine was fine when I was a bachelor, now it's way to small for us both.

 

[pmiranda]

I like the space savings from pocket doors, but I hate using and working on them. My idea for the doors in question was to use interior barn doors that slide on tracks mounted to the wall.

Great idea, I might have to steal that... what's great about the barn door is you can still have electrical in the wall. If they were pocket doors the light switch would have to be above the sink, which is a long reach in the dark.

I would try to rejigger things to get a bigger shower in there. Maybe lose the utility room sink or move it into the shop itself, or shave some space off the bedroom.

As for fire safety, I could be wrong but you might be required to have a firewall that goes all the way up to the roof line. Then to access the mezz you have to do it through a fire-rated door. (Maybe you already plan that... I can only see one of your pictures for some reason).

Here's one plan I once had that might give you some ideas... swap the lanundry and bathroom, and punch a door between the kitchen and (empty) bedroom at the top:

 

[abwehrly42]

The drawing looks like a good plan. Have you checked with the local building "powers that be" to see if they will approve it? I only ask because sometimes what we want to do and what they will allow us to do are two different things.

James, I stopped by the county codes department and talked to an inspector about this arrangement. He said that the door between the shop and apartment will have to be solid with an automatic closer on it, and that the apartment will have to be one hour fire rated.

He said most accomplish this by building the divider wall all the way to the ceiling, and using 1/2" ply and 5/8" Type X drywall. He had never encountered a building with the mezzanine open to the shop area. He is going to research this issue, and I am going to as well.

What can I use as my mezzanine floor that will be one hour fire rated?



Another issue I have identified is the span length of my joists. The codes inspector though I would have to use 16" I-joints on 12" centers to cross the living room. Any thoughts on this?

 

[pmiranda]

I think TN uses IBC... IBC 2006 says:
406.1.4 Separation. Separations shall comply with the
following:
1. .The private garage shall be separated from the dwelling
unit and its attic area by means of a minimum
1/2 inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board applied to the
garage side.

I think the storage mezz. counts as an "attic area". Even if the inspector doesn't make you do a full wall with fire-rated access doors/panels, I think it's a good idea if you're going to be sleeping there.

I'm sure there are dozens of people on here that have done without and never had any issues, but I don't think it's too hard to do it right.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I would think you could use 3/4 ply and 5/8 gyp just as you would the walls. Then maybe add some kind of flooring on top of that if it is just storage. Or maybe reverse the install? Gyp first then the ply over it?

 

[abwehrly42]

As of January 1, 2015 Putnam County enforced the 2012 International Building Codes and 2009 Energy Codes.

I would really like the storage mezzanine to be open to the shop. Maxpower_hd, would that hold up with me walking on it?

I made some revisions to the floor plan. I expanded the bathroom and mudroom slightly. I moved the table to the kitchen. I added a Murphy bed (orange rectangle) to the living room.

In the shop I swapped the man door and 12x12 roll-up. I think this will work better if I decide to install a 2 post lift in front of the two trucks.

 

[RWorth]

I would think to be fire-safe, the wall between the shop and the apartment should go floor to ceiling.

another thing I thought of that I didn't see mentioned is, around here they want a concrete riser so gas fumes can't follow the floor into the apartment.

 

[the GOAT]

For a fire rated mezzanine floor you can use tile with denshield backer. Probably will also need 5/8 rock on the ceiling below to get a 1 hour rating.

The cement backer boards may be more flame proof but they don't stop the heat transfer. Denshield is more like Sheetrock and can be used under the tile on floors.

Eta

http://www.buildgp.com/DocumentViewer.aspx?repository=BP&elementid=4284

Page 14

(And put a toilet and sink in the shop)

 

[RVDan]

I don't have a better design for you but I feel it's awkward going through the kitchen to go to the bedroom and also weird to go through the laundry room to get to the bathroom.

 

[pmiranda]

I think the apartment design is great... good use of space.
Do the stairs go up toward the outer wall or toward the center of the building?
If you ran them up toward the center of the building and put an exterior door at the bottom it would be easy to get longer items up them to the mezz.

 

[38Chevy454]

you could build a small 1/2 bath under the stairs to get a second toilet out in the work area.

Also seems a bit awkward to have to go through the laundry area to get to bathroom from the living room area. But I really don't see a better way around that. The revised layout seems like a pretty good design.

BTW, make the bldg 40x80 and have the garage part be 40x60. You will never regret having more space.

 

[garrett1812]

Just one suggestion, you could gain a lot of floorspace by putting a stackable washer/dryer in a closet and move the utility sink into the garage area.

 

[DeadSock]

A couple of thoughts regarding plumbing.
1) venting that dryer location will be a PITA
2) the "wet wall" drainage appears to have a 45 straight run to the shower and toilet. Will this have underground access (I.e. A crawl space)
3) the vents for DWV look like they shouldn't be too big an issue. Think where that will extend up though.
4) make any wall with plumbing in it 2x6


My suggestion would be to visit with a plumbing contractor (or two) for there thoughts.

 

[DeadSock]

A few more thoughts.
I don't see any mechanicals (water heater, hvac, etc)

Under the stairs may be the plan, but if possible you might consider a full basement under the apartment (exterior stairs or a return under the mezz stairs). It would add fantastic storage and easy access to mechanicals/plumbing.

 

[Marctrees]

Are you planning on doing ballroom style dancing in the BR????

What the hells w the ft sq of the BR?

Why so big?

THINK how you use your current BR and use that info.

I would put that desk you show in the BR into the LR, and WHY do you need so much kitchen footage?

It's almost as big as the LR.

We do almost all of our cooking prep veggie cutting, etc sitting at the table in the kitchen, serves as our main countertop area.

Overall, we spend WAY more time in our "great room" than ANYWHERE else.

Basic as it may be, (It's not a great great room, just all open to rest of house. TV, stereo, computer I can work at while TV on 7 ft past it.

For me that last thing is mandatory, I can work the computer while my Babe watches movies next to me.

My most often by far used computer is on an elevated portion of the "cofee table" in front of my couch.

We do have a second one on a desk, that she normally uses. Wireless printer located there.

And, for all my comments, I'm assuming suitability for not just you, but also if w/ a partner, as in my case. Marc

 

[Marctrees]

But personal pickiness aside, your overall idea of shop/ home is AWESOME. Marc

 

[amkluttz]

Where are you using Icovia from? I've been using it for shop/garage design layout and I have really liked it.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I would really like the storage mezzanine to be open to the shop. Maxpower_hd, would that hold up with me walking on it?

I made some revisions to the floor plan. I expanded the bathroom and mudroom slightly. I moved the table to the kitchen. I added a Murphy bed (orange rectangle) to the living room.

In the shop I swapped the man door and 12x12 roll-up. I think this will work better if I decide to install a 2 post lift in front of the two trucks.

With the gyp first and plywood over I would think it would hold up fine for a attic storage only kind of walking. Everyday traffic like a living room maybe not. Tile might be a better solution. 3/4 ply, cement board then tile?

I know condos around here have floated in cement floors between floors. I'm not familiar with the install but I think they are 1"-2" thick. I am assuming there is some kind of membrane between it and the structure.

 

[jarhead]

I would put a air lock of some sort between the two with a system to pull air out of that room so the stink from the shop does not go into the home.

 

[bczygan]

I'm a designer, and I can't evaluate your plan at all without knowing all the specifics about the particular lot it is intended to be constructed on and all the zoning and building regulations for it.

Do you have a lot?

You can't design a building without that information.

It's like designing a suit of clothes without knowing who will wear it.

Bill

 

[Hangar Pilot]

You can put two HVAC systems in to achieve the separation. I'm building a 30'x56' with about half of it people area. I put conventional forced air heat pump in the people area and a mini split in the shop area. I also insulated the wall between the two areas.

 

[pmiranda]

I forget who makes them, but I saw some multi-split systems... one outdoor condenser unit that hooks up to 5 or 6 evaporators. The evaporators can be wall units, ceiling units that look like vents, ducted air handlers, etc.

 

[bjcouche]

I can't comment on the sizes or orientation of the various rooms as I believe that is personal preference. However, since you only have 1 bathroom, consider installing a tub with shower, instead of just the shower. If you had a tub in another bathroom elsewhere, then having just a shower in this one would be fine. Not having a tub anywhere might be a turn off for the ladies....
If you are looking to save money, and can rearrange some sinks, toilets, etc. Placing as many things as possible, that need plumbing on one interior wall will save plumbing expense. Especially if you are running the plumbing under the concrete slab.

Brian