44 Bikes Frame Shop

[Rigpig]

Hey, Great thread, cool shop and awesome TIG work!!! Nice to see someone still hand-buiding frames. I'm a old mtb-er from the north shore mountains of Vancouver. Got an old "sling-shot", vintage Merlin, Trimble, Brodie Soveregn, original Brodie Roadie, DeKerf, Cove Hummer and now it looks like i need one of yours...LOL
Cheers!

 

[YoungMedic]

And getting ready to build up this fat bike. Tires are due in around mid february:



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:hitit: Im a sucker for blue!

23" and still falling by 44 Bikes, on Flickr

Just amazing!

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

So 44, does that bit of the white stuff keep you off the 'trails'? lol

If that stuff keeps falling out of the sky, you may have to design more than a fat bike; more like a 'Schnee Panzer'.

Something like this -

 

[ambenz]

I saw your "Fat Tire" bike pic, all I have to say is Wow!
Those tires are Knobby Fat!

 

[AussieDan]

@AussieDan: For tooling drawings and specs I generally use a combination of Solidworks and of all things Adobe Illustrator. I have a plugin for Illustrator that allows you to do dimensional drawings. So for some things that are very simple, I just draft a planned view drawing in Illustrator as it's quicker for me sometimes. For more complex assemblies, I use Solidworks. For all the graphics, I'll do quick hand sketches to work out the ideas and then I use Adobe Illustrator to formalize the designs and all the layout work for catalogs and such I use Adobe Indesign.

Thanks for the info, I've used solidworks a little for modeling 3d parts and taking off drawing, but as you say for straight 2d drawings there are better tools. I haven't really used illustrator but it sounds like it m time to give it a try. Is the plugin you're using CADtools?

And yes, the larger jig is for seat stays. There's some placeholder "hardware" in place for the photo. I have some locking handles, knobs and appropriate length shoulder bolts on their way for the assembly from McMaster this week once it decides to stop snowing...

Nice, interested to see pics once it's in action!

Don't complain to me about snow, we're #1 in the country right now and still running behind average

 

[fortyfour]

@Ambez: The front tire is a 4.8. It's kind of crazy just how big it really is:



@Youngmedic: I'm really torn as to what my next fat bike color will be... That blue is gorgeous. But they also make a deep red powder that is from that same powder type... Decisions!

The blue (you can't tell from those pics) has some sparkle to it which is very pleasing:



@Omphaloskeptic: When the trails get packed down again, I'll be out there for sure. 24" of snow's going to take some time but then again, that should invite some snowmobilers to get after it and they share some of the trails so we should be good to go shortly. I'll be headed out later today actually...

 

[fortyfour]

I haven't really used illustrator but it sounds like it m time to give it a try. Is the plugin you're using CADtools?

Illustrator is actually a very powerful tool and it's largely overlooked. When I was a shoe designer, it's all the design staff really used to create the tech packs for the engineers to do their patterns from. It really is just a 2d drafting software. But it also enables you to do a lot with graphics, layout, catalogs, logos etc. and you can export it a variety of file types (PDF, EPS, DXF, to name a few). Nothing replaces Solidworks really - but Illustrator can be a nice supplement for 2d drafts. It has a bit of a learning curve but like any software, you just start to understand how it likes to build shapes, etc. and you're off and running. I kind of use it like a sketch pad in many ways. I know a lot of fellow designers have Wacom tablets that they sketch directly through to illustrator to create finalized art/drawings.

Nice, interested to see pics once it's in action!

Don't complain to me about snow, we're #1 in the country right now and still running behind average

Not complaining in the least! Before I had built my fat bike, right about this time in the winter, I would kind of get cabin fever and started to scorn the snow. Now I have to say i'm happy to see it and don't have a care about when it leaves. Fat bikes really were a winter game changer for me:

 

[GirchyGirchy]

Very cool!

I kept debating about a fat tire bike, just a base Pugsley. But we just don't get enough snow to make it worthwhile here in IN.

 

[floridaguy]

I am not sure if you mentioned this or not, do you make the badge or do you buy them? BTW yes they are nice. I really like your detail to quality in your fixtures/jigs, granted your bike frames are amazing but I really like the fixtures. Part of my job is to design assembly fixtures so this really catches my attention.

[/QUOTE]

 

[fortyfour]

@Floridaguy: Thanks for the kind words. So much of what I do is actually "how will I hold this" thus all the very specific fixtures and tooling. The badges are made by a company that specializes in photo chemical etching. I send them two pieces of art, the actual art file and then a "through etch" file. These are layered on top of one another and in two steps the badges are etched and then cut out of the sheet. Cool process.

 

[Jimbo..]

Kristofer, just finished the entire thread after three or four sessions over the past few days, and I'm thoroughly impressed on every level. You make gorgeous bikes, your shop is beautiful, and you do it all in a way that resonates.

I ride a Stainless IndyFab that I love more than either of my kids individually, (not really). Ever since I got my first Italian lugged frame back in the 80's, I've wanted to try my hand. Tig welded frames are my goal, more for fun than as a business, and reading your story is truly an inspiration. Thanks brother! Keep it up because I want to see more (please).

One question about that heat sink thing (which is what I think you called it) that you showed a photo of, how necessary is that? You need them for welding the bottom bracket and the head tube? Is that to prevent distortion?

Take it easy,

Jimbo..

 

[KolkataKustoms]

One of the best threads ever. Thanks for sharing 44.

 

[fortyfour]

@KolkataKustoms: Thanks. That made my day!

@Jimbo: Thanks for the kind words and glad to hear it's an inspiration. The heat sync's are not necessary but they do help with heat control, which minimizes the HAZ (Heat Affected Zone), reduction in distortion, but they also can be a port for back purging. This is crucial when Tig Welding both Titanium and Stainless Steels. You need to purge all the oxygen from inside the tubes, and replace it with the inert shielding gas Argon. Titanium loves oxygen, and it is a contaminant which basically makes the welds very brittle. Not good for longevity especially in a structure like a bicycle frame. The grooves in the heat syncs help to distribute the argon. One of my next projects is to finish up adapting all my tooling for back purging (about halfway there - fork jig, fork mitering setup and new seat stay jig took priority). If you have any questions, feel free to email me directly (email located via my website). I'd be happy to help.

Here's what's been keeping me busy the past week. Some new tooling:











And prepping a fat bike headed to Switzerland!













And of course, all that work, you need to get out and play. -5 with the windchill today? BAH! Let's go for a ride!

 

[bknudtsen]

Love the fat bikes! Great colors.

 

[wxm]

Nice, top notch.

 

[Matthewjb]

I was first pointed to this site from a Cycling forum.

This thread combines both beautifully.

And that blue fat bike is gorgeous.

 

[oldldh]

Brilliant work...

Thoroughly enjoyed watching your studio progress, and bike building artistry...

Stay warm...

 

[KRZY1]

Such a cool space and the bikes are works of art.

 

[fortyfour]

Thanks all for the kind words. Some new seat tube badges are in the works and have been etched/on their way to 44 HQ. Here's a snapshot of the art prepped to be etched on stainless sheet:

 

[oldldh]

Please check your website's email...

There's a good thing listed there...

 

[Buzz Lightyear]

Amazing as always.

Subscribed

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Once again, beautiful work; works of art!

OT, but what do you use to lubricate all the moving parts on one of your creations?

 

[fortyfour]

@Omphaloskeptic: It depends on the parts. I prefer a spray lubricant with teflon for the drivetrain but use it very sparingly however (i can't stand the waxes). Nothing is worse than an over-lubed drivetrain. I personally use a product called "Triflow". (Naturally with ingredients known to the state of CA as a carcinogen...). But what I do generally is spray some onto a rag and then while back pedaling the drivetrain while in a stand, apply the lube. This way I'm cleaning off any gunk but only putting on what's necessary.

For assembly like putting the seat post into the seat tube, pressing in the headset, threading in the cups etc. that requires grease, I use Phil Wood's Waterproof grease. Another good one is Park Tool's Grease too.

For prepping the frame, I use "Tap Magic" for facing/chasing the head tube, bottom bracket and bringing the inside of the seat tube into tolerance. I use a flex hone to give the inside of the seat tube a good even finish

Today's work: (First pic is actually a vent hole on the seat tube. Won't ever see the light of day, but I know it's there and that's all that matters).

 

[jalbrecht55]

As other's have said, you do some beautiful work. As you show the finished bikes, I'd love to see a basic build sheet on the components you used. Just for example, on the blue bike I'm curious what gears you went with on the cassette, and what brand/type the derailer is. I've got a 29er with a 10x1 setup and woud love just a little lower gearing like that appears to have.

 

[no2tracks]

As other's have said, you do some beautiful work. As you show the finished bikes, I'd love to see a basic build sheet on the components you used. Just for example, on the blue bike I'm curious what gears you went with on the cassette, and what brand/type the derailer is. I've got a 29er with a 10x1 setup and woud love just a little lower gearing like that appears to have.

That looks like it might be the Sram XX1 10-40 11spd cassette. It requires a special cassette carrier on the hub. It won't just slide on any Shimano 9-10 spd carrier. You'll have to see if your hub manufacturer makes a carrier for the cassette. I know for Hope hubs it's a about $100 for the carrier. And you'll need the corresponding derailleur and shifter to go with those, so your looking at 4 pieces to upgrade.

Edit; 6 pieces. You'll also need the Sram crank and chain for that XX1 group as it's all a group and other stuff doesn't work with it.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Thanks for the info on the lubricants, I need to get my old Nishiki International ready for Spring.

 

[Faria]

@Mikej1: Unfortunately not this year. I would like to go but it's not in the budget this year. If it comes next year closer to the east coast, or is on the east coast, I will be there in 2014. Even regardless of where it is I may just have to go! It's time...

So with the recent snow melt, it's time to build up the singlespeed and go get some:


Rock Gardening by 44 Bikes, on Flickr


Yep... That's my little sweetheart. by 44 Bikes, on Flickr


Climbing by 44 Bikes, on Flickr


If you only can have one... by 44 Bikes, on Flickr

Hi, Kris!
Once again, I have to tell you that your work is just amazing!
Belive it or not, you just woke up an old passion I used to have when I was a teen: push bikes!
I piked an old Ritchey cromoly frame that was covered with dust in a friends shed and just assembled some parts that were missing resulting in a fine bike that i now ride almost every day!
Right now , I'm building a single speed bike too and I would like to ask you what gearing do you have/advise me to use.
The frame I have is a steel frame that I've already chooped and welded, and the surroundings were I live are basically montains...
Thank you and keep the good work!

 

[fortyfour]

@jalbrecht55: 10-42t XX1 Cassette. Rear derailleur is Sram XX1. Current 10spd options include both from shimano and Sram a 10 or 12-36t cassette (I believe it's a 10-36t cassette). Both offer a few options for weight vs price. For the price and weight, Sram's 1050 36t cassette is a nice option, which I have on one of my personal 1x10 setups and that combined with a 32t front chainring makes for a really nice on-trail spread especially for climbing.



@no2tracks and @jalbrecht55: What makes XX1 special is how the chainrings are machined and that the tooth profile is different making it "****" the chain down and onto the ring. That's the big difference because couple this with a Type 2 or Clutch rear derailleur, you can eliminate a guide from a 1x drivetrain. What is interesting though, is that what changed with the chain: 10spd chains are narrower than 9 speed and are stronger. 10spd chains will work on a 9spd drivetrain since the inside diameter and specs are still the same. But with 11spd, Sram changed the outer plate thickness of the chain to make room for that extra cog and reduced distance between the cogs. But the distance between the chains outer plates remains the same as 10spd... 3/32". Thus you can run 11spd on a 3/32 10spd chainring.





And this brings me to this blue fat bike: There are no production solutions right now for a true 11spd drivetrain / cranks for fat bikes because Sram chose a proprietary bolt hole circle on the crank's spider (something like 74 or 75 BCD). There's a few small cnc guys starting to make solutions but they are way out in terms of production. e13's new TRS cranks and a few others have removable spiders, and I expect some will be making XX1 specific spiders, or 11spd specific chainrings that work with 104bcd. So with our fingers crossed, I can spec a 10spd chainring in this case, but use the 11 spd shifter, chain and cassette in the meantime. And with XX1, you need a new cassette driver specific for 11spd. This Paul Components hub uses an I9 driver / cassette body, so the switch was simple enough since Industry 9 has an XX1 Cassette solution and they are one of my OEM accounts. So support on my side was excellent:





The removal was simple, but the repressing of that cassette was a bit tricky since that outer bearing is large. It kept wanting to rock to one side... But with some patience I got things back together.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Fortyfour, man, you are God of bicycle!
I love your blue bike, well all your bikes.
I really enjoy your jigging also, being a fabricator myself.
Get a cnc and make your own hubs n stuff, big invest but much return.

 

[horizontallyopposed]

The fat bike cranks will get there - SRAM announced fat bike versions of 2x10 cranks, but 1x11 will take more time I'm sure as the technology trickles down.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2013/02/21/sram-offers-fat-bike-cranks

Great to see your pics Kristofer - your detail and insight will be far more than the pics that come out of NAHBS for geeks like us who enjoy the build process (although there are always some wonderfully artistic bikes at NAHBS).

Cheers,
Keith

 

[fortyfour]

@horizontallyopposed: Thanks for the kind words Keith. That's great to hear you are enjoying the process. This is the part that I really love (in addition to the riding of the bikes). But then again, building, tuning, testing, riding and then repeat is all part of it for me. Riding is not enough naturally. That want and need to make a better ride is part of the process for me. I'm sure there will be fat bike offerings for 11spd in the future. It's very new and was actually a bit of a wait to even get my hands on it from my distributors (QBP). Fat bikes are only a small part of what i do. Mtn. Road, Cross... However if someone asked me what do you feel most comfortable doing I'd say "Anything that has knobs that touches dirt...".

@Faria- This one made my day my man! That's great!! Good to hear I've inspired you to dust off those old jeans and shred. For singlespeed gearing, I'm running an 18t cog and a 32t chainring in that picture. If it's a 26" generally they say whatever your front chainring tooth count is, you divide that number by 2 (32t chainring is 16t cog in that case). However, if it's a 29er, I'd make a few adjustments. A lot of people run 32t front and either 19t cog or 20t cog. Some even up to a 22t cog. What you want though is a balance of speed so you don't pedal out, and a balance in ability to climb without struggling... too much. Mashing of the teeth is acceptable.

I find, for myself either 18 or 19t cogs just right in this case on a 29er with 32t chainring. Just enough bite to not pedal out on level ground at speed, going downhill etc, and good enough so you're able to climb both in the saddle and out of the saddle. Expect to stand a lot and push that bike up some hills. It's ok. It's the commitment to 1 gear that matters. You'll also notice that the more you ride a singlespeed, the better your cadence will get and your skills too. Not to mention when you step back on a geared bike, you'll feel like you're cheating. SS builds a ton of power and is actually a great training tool. But if you can, be aware that it is tough on knees/legs, so it is good to balance SS riding with geared riding to avoid overuse injuries (been there, done that!).

@Nastyzen: I'll take that compliment. Thank you! I'd love to get a cnc. Maybe one day when I win the lottery right?

 

[staging]

If you do not mind me asking what is the name of the color on the blue bike and the blue on your garage doors? Great work and thanks for sharing.

 

[dozerbuilder01]

You do some amazing work. Those fat tire bikes are bad ***.

 

[fortyfour]

@Staging: The blue of the bike is Tiger Drylac's "Sparkly Sky Blue" (49/40074). The blue of the doors is a Behr Solid Stain matched to the Behr Solid Paint "Brilliant Sea" (520B-6)

Yesterday I caught up on some work before heading out for a ride:

 

[Jimbo..]

Kristofer,

I'm trying to figure out how you make the heart shaped cutout? Two hole and some file work is all I'm coming up with. If you don't mind sharing that secret, I would love to know.

Thanks,

Jimbo

 

[fortyfour]

@Jimbo: You are correct, I milled two 3/16" holes side-by-side and then used a half round 8" needle file to finish the point of the heart.

 

[staging]

Hey thanks for the colors. Any plans for the floor, any time soon?

 

[JimVonBaden]

Kristofer,

Not only are you an artist in metal, but your photos are art in themselves!

I am truely impressed!

Jim

 

[jalbrecht55]

Wow, thanks for posting up all the details on that rear cassette setup. Very neat. I do enjoy riding and working on bikes but I have so many other hobbies along with the needs of my young daughter that I just don't have time to keep up with all the new parts out there. So I appreciate whatever you have to post about both the new and innovative and the stuff that isn't so much so.

I looked again at my bike and notes from when I first set it up, looks like I'm actually running a 1x9 with a 32tooth crank and 12-36 cassette. I'd love it if I could get an 11-36 cassette on there (I've seen some how-to's it might be worth trying) and especially if a person could get a 29 or 30 tooth chainring. But it looks like that is near impossible without deviating from the std bolt pattern on the crank which is probably why I haven't seen any out there for sale. What it would get me is same high gear that I have now (which I'm happy with) and would be comparable to running a 39-40 tooth cassette. I guess the easiest answer is just to put a standard derailer on the front and run the small and medium chainring, but that's too easy

I honestly don't know how you SS guys do it. I've ridden with some that just leave me in the dust, even up some pretty tough hills.

 

[TargaGreg]

Hey Fortyfour, your bikes are absolute works of art and I really enjoy your thread. I would actually like to know more about your dog - he looks exactly like mine but since mine came from the pound I'm not certain of the breed. What breed is your dog?
Thanks and keep up the great work!