The seat stays have an "S" shape for both form and function actually. I feel as though functionally, the "S" shape delivers a little bit more of a lively ride (no formal data to support this, but I know what I know in terms of how a bike "feels" with straight stays vs curved stays) and aesthetically, that's just where some of the personality of the bike comes out (Chainstays and seat stays coupled with the seat tube if a mountain bike). Another functional benefit of that "S" is heel clearance as the rider goes through his/her pedal stroke.
44 Bikes Frame Shop
- Thread starter fortyfour
- Start date
The seat stays have an "S" shape for both form and function actually. I feel as though functionally, the "S" shape delivers a little bit more of a lively ride (no formal data to support this, but I know what I know in terms of how a bike "feels" with straight stays vs curved stays) and aesthetically, that's just where some of the personality of the bike comes out (Chainstays and seat stays coupled with the seat tube if a mountain bike). Another functional benefit of that "S" is heel clearance as the rider goes through his/her pedal stroke.
kjdhawkhill
Well-known member
Kris,
I just took a look at your blog… That white with green/black huntsman is fantastic.
Congrats on another fantastic, drool-worthy build.
I just took a look at your blog… That white with green/black huntsman is fantastic.
Congrats on another fantastic, drool-worthy build.
xj1999
Well-known member
Awesome shop! Would love to be able to ride on of your bikes!
JustinS
Well-known member
I am continually impressed Kristofer!
Thanks all for the kinds words. What's funny about that white/green Huntsman is I was not expecting the reaction that it has gotten since it was finished. I was happy to finally be able to do some liquid finishes and explore some things in my own way visually to be executed by my painter Jay Nutini instead of having a continuous line of powder coated bikes (which is fine, but it is refreshing to do something other than a solid color...). It did turn out very well! But honestly, I did not expect it to be received with such fan fare. There is another one coming up, actually a few now, which will be liquid paint that hopefully will offer some new lines and simple new classics.
But the bikes continue to roll out the door. Recently it seems like a string of frame sets have been being ordered instead of completes. I prefer to build completes, but a bunch of clients have been bringing parts from other builds that were stock frames which just quite did not offer the versatility that one of my Huntsman's offers. Here's some shots from the most recent build:
And lastly, I've been attempting to get my top mount decal art sorted. The one piece that had me a bit stumped was the "Made in NH" art. I've been working on and off for a few months now when inspiration hits me, but this one seemed to be evading me for some reason. Nothing felt right. A good majority of the time, when I create graphics like this I have good direction, inspiration and things come together. For whatever reason, things were just not clicking for me on such a simple piece (and maybe that was the problem?). But like all things I do, it has to have meaning. Nothing I do can't for some reason, and perhaps that is my attention to detail oriented personality.
I was working on this again this past week, again getting no where fast when it occurred to me the parallels between artifacts and bicycles. Both are tools, purpose built with specific intention. Where I grew up, if you know where to look, Native American artifacts abound. I was lucky enough to have a father who at a young age, took an interest in all this and began arrowhead hunting in the fields surrounding his house. This habit of his carried through to adulthood and as a kid, he would take me out to specific sites/farmers fields to hunt arrowheads. He taught me about the materials used, what to look for in a potential site, where in the site to look, and "how" to look. One of my first points I found was the Perkiomen Broad Point, a specific piece to my region where I grew up that has a distinctive shape. Those in the know, it's kind of a right of passage to find one I think. So thinking on this, I had some direction. I know my home is in New Hampshire now, but I can't help but think about where my heart will always remain and that's outside in those fields and woods of the Upper Perkiomen Valley. I have fond memories of exploring those hills just outside of town both with my Father, his best friend Marshall and later on my own as a young teen either by myself or with my best buddy. So that's what this little piece is all about. Made in NH. But the "X" marks the spot where my heart is. The arrowhead / artifact at the bottom is a nod to where my heart is but also to all those times exploring which now ties into the creation of bicycles as tools. That's the story and once printed, these will adorn each frame at the base of the down tube just above the bottom bracket. Kind of the heart of the bike, so a fitting location for this little simple graphic:
And the full decal art. I will continue to use the stainless badges on all bikes, but in the future, I will be doing small batch "production" bikes in steel, so those will use the full decal sets to set them apart from the custom bikes.
But the bikes continue to roll out the door. Recently it seems like a string of frame sets have been being ordered instead of completes. I prefer to build completes, but a bunch of clients have been bringing parts from other builds that were stock frames which just quite did not offer the versatility that one of my Huntsman's offers. Here's some shots from the most recent build:
And lastly, I've been attempting to get my top mount decal art sorted. The one piece that had me a bit stumped was the "Made in NH" art. I've been working on and off for a few months now when inspiration hits me, but this one seemed to be evading me for some reason. Nothing felt right. A good majority of the time, when I create graphics like this I have good direction, inspiration and things come together. For whatever reason, things were just not clicking for me on such a simple piece (and maybe that was the problem?). But like all things I do, it has to have meaning. Nothing I do can't for some reason, and perhaps that is my attention to detail oriented personality.
I was working on this again this past week, again getting no where fast when it occurred to me the parallels between artifacts and bicycles. Both are tools, purpose built with specific intention. Where I grew up, if you know where to look, Native American artifacts abound. I was lucky enough to have a father who at a young age, took an interest in all this and began arrowhead hunting in the fields surrounding his house. This habit of his carried through to adulthood and as a kid, he would take me out to specific sites/farmers fields to hunt arrowheads. He taught me about the materials used, what to look for in a potential site, where in the site to look, and "how" to look. One of my first points I found was the Perkiomen Broad Point, a specific piece to my region where I grew up that has a distinctive shape. Those in the know, it's kind of a right of passage to find one I think. So thinking on this, I had some direction. I know my home is in New Hampshire now, but I can't help but think about where my heart will always remain and that's outside in those fields and woods of the Upper Perkiomen Valley. I have fond memories of exploring those hills just outside of town both with my Father, his best friend Marshall and later on my own as a young teen either by myself or with my best buddy. So that's what this little piece is all about. Made in NH. But the "X" marks the spot where my heart is. The arrowhead / artifact at the bottom is a nod to where my heart is but also to all those times exploring which now ties into the creation of bicycles as tools. That's the story and once printed, these will adorn each frame at the base of the down tube just above the bottom bracket. Kind of the heart of the bike, so a fitting location for this little simple graphic:
And the full decal art. I will continue to use the stainless badges on all bikes, but in the future, I will be doing small batch "production" bikes in steel, so those will use the full decal sets to set them apart from the custom bikes.
Also, for those who want to know, here is the piece that relates to the art. I have several of this type, this being the one first found but most complete (the others are either half the tip or half the tail). I've taken some liberty with the art and combined the shapes from a few i have on hand so it's not an exact replica of this one. But this is the point in question.
Engine Builder
New member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 3
Kristofer<
The vise on your mill,is that a Kurt or a clone,if it's a clone what brand,i'm looking for one for my mill.
Thanks Dean
The vise on your mill,is that a Kurt or a clone,if it's a clone what brand,i'm looking for one for my mill.
Thanks Dean
Engine Builder
New member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 3
Thanks, I was looking at Shars and Glacern even good used Kurt's on ebay are still $300-$400.
I believe I found mine used for $250.00. A good vise, even a used one, is still an investment. I've used not so good ones, and all that frustration of just trying to hold the work piece square completely made up my mind when it came to laying down the cash. Everything I make is held by that vise.
Madhatter10-6
Well-known member
Got caught on this thread and checked out your website. What phenomenal work!
Very impressed.
Very impressed.
1dwn5up
Active member
I'm new to the forum, so I haven't looked through all the posts. Who is taking your pictures and what kind of camera are they using? They all look great!
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Beautiful work as always.
Mike.
Mike.
56rpm
Well-known member
Kris, superb fab work as usual. Great story about the artifacts, it's priceless. I haven't been on your thread in a while, so the attached pic from you is perfect timing and a life saver for me. I'm gonna steal the double clamp idea to use in my mill. I've been thinking of a way to notch a 2-1/8" diameter hole in a 180° tube bend. Your fixture is a perfect solution, thanks!
Bob
Bob
Grizz1963
Well-known member
Your work continues to amaze me.
The welding is my **** fix every time I look in.
The welding is my **** fix every time I look in.
So I have been working on some small graphics for a while to solidify the branding a touch more and bring things up a few notches. Once those were finalized, it was time to give Gary a shout at SSSink. He's the business to go to for Top Mount Decals over powder. Very knowledgeable and really on point with his game as he has years of experience in all sorts of applications. 2 weeks after I approved proofs, these bad larry's showed up at 44HQ:
I had about 2 months of work hanging here in the shop as once word got out that I had some "real" decals coming, everyone in line wanted in and were willing to wait. So I've been prepping, applying and shooting all those bikes (ironically all of them were framesets - 7 total). Here's a few that got the new treatment and were recently shot...
SS Mountain Frame headed to Long Island:
Huntsman headed to Vermont:
And this one, my new favorite... is headed right down he street here in New Hampshire!
I had about 2 months of work hanging here in the shop as once word got out that I had some "real" decals coming, everyone in line wanted in and were willing to wait. So I've been prepping, applying and shooting all those bikes (ironically all of them were framesets - 7 total). Here's a few that got the new treatment and were recently shot...
SS Mountain Frame headed to Long Island:
Huntsman headed to Vermont:
And this one, my new favorite... is headed right down he street here in New Hampshire!
kjdhawkhill
Well-known member
Thats it… no college savings for the kids… I "need" 44bikes in my life.
ff4500
Well-known member
I don't comment on a lot of threads, but your welding is just beautiful.
As are your frames. Loving the new graphics for the frames.
Definitely gonna look you up when I'm building my next bike.
As are your frames. Loving the new graphics for the frames.
Definitely gonna look you up when I'm building my next bike.
Thanks all for the kind words. Here's a few other recent client frames and work in progress for your enjoyment. I've got a few actual shop projects I'm planning, so I'll have some things to share once material arrives and things go together. Till then, enjoy.
Huntsman X Bianchi Celeste Powder Headed to WI
Marauder X Flat Black Headed to AZ
Huntsman Fixed X Sparkle Copper : Will Be For Sale Actually...
Marauder 29" Mtn frame X 2x11 Currently in the Jig
Huntsman X Bianchi Celeste Powder Headed to WI
Marauder X Flat Black Headed to AZ
Huntsman Fixed X Sparkle Copper : Will Be For Sale Actually...
Marauder 29" Mtn frame X 2x11 Currently in the Jig
Wow your fitment is out of this world!!! Its so cool to see someone take pride in there workmanship, it seems something people are not practicing now days. I hope you have children and you pas this skill on to them, it would be a shame not to.
INTMD8
Well-known member
Very nice fab work!
Thanks fellas. Tight fit ups make for stronger frames as there are less gaps to fill. The tubes also have a tendency to move less since there is less room for things to move around. Each one gets better. Just finishing tacking this one together this afternoon. Here's a few for all to enjoy.
And a few from actually the tacking process. Note the shot between the down tube and top tube. That sucker was tight enough that I had to go from a No. 10 alumina cup down to a No. 8 Stub. What makes this setup go is the gas lens hidden inside. That allows for even gas distribution, no turbulence created by the argon flow and increased control of the arc. Stomp on the pedal, and you're welding where you want to and the area is protected with good coverage despite a lot of stick out. When I weld this section, I'll use a No. 10 and work my way towards these two tacks. The Down Tube/Head tube tack was on the long side-maybe 8-10 beads worth. Makes that weld once the top tube is in place much easier. Process and methodology from experience.
And a few from actually the tacking process. Note the shot between the down tube and top tube. That sucker was tight enough that I had to go from a No. 10 alumina cup down to a No. 8 Stub. What makes this setup go is the gas lens hidden inside. That allows for even gas distribution, no turbulence created by the argon flow and increased control of the arc. Stomp on the pedal, and you're welding where you want to and the area is protected with good coverage despite a lot of stick out. When I weld this section, I'll use a No. 10 and work my way towards these two tacks. The Down Tube/Head tube tack was on the long side-maybe 8-10 beads worth. Makes that weld once the top tube is in place much easier. Process and methodology from experience.
E12-535iTurbo
Well-known member
Am I seeing it correctly that you are using simple clamps to rest your welding arm on? Seems like a great idea!
On a side note: I found that gas lenses are not really general practise over here, I'm having trouble finding a good local source but I'm really eager to try such a setup.
On a side note: I found that gas lenses are not really general practise over here, I'm having trouble finding a good local source but I'm really eager to try such a setup.
My torch hand is technically resting on a tube (top tube in this case) and the clamp is hold the tube in place. I have used a clamp as a perch though in the past - indeed it is a nice little trick. Most times I perch with a finger or two in tough spots to weld.
Regarding Gas Lenses: I would contact your torch manufacturer to see if they have a local source you can go to. I know most of my parts either come from CK Worldwide or from online (Arc-Zone for example). I've found many good local resources just don't have the depth of options that you can find online OR directly from the manufacturer. I know every time I've needed a part or had a question CK Worldwide has been really helpful. Depending on your Torch, I don't see why you could not contact that company directly or go online for a source as much of the parts are compatible. My only recommendation is to get genuine replacement parts. A lot of what is sold, for example on eBay, is not up to the task.
But my own opinion: It would be well worth the effort to spend some time getting a Gas Lens and Alumina Nozzle sorted for your torch. I've found that both a No. 8 Stubby Cup and the larger No. 10 Cup with matching 1/16" gas lens pretty much gives me access to a good variety of welding situations and packs the right amount of coverage to maintain a clean and stable welding environment.
For the record, here's what a No.8 looks like:
And then what a No. 10 looks like:
The gas lenses on both are different sizes for the record as well. Here's a great example of good vs bad lenses. These are for the No. 8 cups. The lens on the left uses a steel retaining clip to hold the screen in place. The one on the right uses a brass ring and the copper part of the insulated body is swaged over that brass ring. I was finding I was getting odd arc behavior and contamination when I first started welding with this setup. Turns out those cheaper lenses with the steel rings were causing the problem. Swapped out for genuine parts, and problem went away. Lesson learned!
Strouty
Well-known member
44 without going back through the entire thread, do you make bikes with the fat tires?
Honest Bob
Well-known member
he sure does!
Strouty
Well-known member
I love those tires. I don't know why, maybe it is because I never got to have a rokon when growing up.
Okie Pete
Well-known member
Pure Art , amazing skills.
kjdhawkhill
Well-known member
The bike for your dad is classy, and very utilitarian. No room in my garage or budget now, but I love the idea of 29+ / 26x4.5 or x5 being interchangeable.
Sort of like the factory off road packages in pickups these days… one set of wheels gets you 85% of the off road performance you're likely to use, without totally ruining efficiency. You can always get silly fatter, too. And I think the Jones bar probably can't be beaten if your dad is gonna' use the bike the way you described in the blog.
Sort of like the factory off road packages in pickups these days… one set of wheels gets you 85% of the off road performance you're likely to use, without totally ruining efficiency. You can always get silly fatter, too. And I think the Jones bar probably can't be beaten if your dad is gonna' use the bike the way you described in the blog.
We've said it in countless ways on here but thank you for sharing so much about your process. I know this is a garage/shop forum but I'd be interested in seeing your process for the logo creation. Your stickers/posters/etc are phenomenal.
Do you have any suggestions for those wanting to start/improve their branding? Any books? Tutorials?
I'm just blown away by how fine tuned your whole operation is. As my eyes glaze over in front of a computer, I dream of working in your shop's doppleganger.
Do you have any suggestions for those wanting to start/improve their branding? Any books? Tutorials?
I'm just blown away by how fine tuned your whole operation is. As my eyes glaze over in front of a computer, I dream of working in your shop's doppleganger.
Thanks for the kind words. For the record, I ran a design consultancy for over 10 years and my specialty was branding of businesses large and small. I have a lot of experience with logo creation, brand management, creating visual strategies that include marketing, ad campaigns, etc. Basically anything that a business needs to raise awareness visually, I've done it and it includes everything from product, to graphic, packaging, websites and everything in between. So I come at it from a bunch of experience and with that came a lot of trial and error.
However with any logo project I take on, it takes careful planning, a heck of a lot of thought, a lot of process, and inspiration. Knowing your "ideal user" is also helpful. In this case, it was a serious case of "the cobblers kids have no shoes". It's one thing to meet with a client, discuss what their brand is, what they want it to be and develop a story that embodies their brand. This is then interpretted and translated through my own lens/filter back to the client. So a lot of it is understanding what they want, but knowing what they need.
With the shoe completely on the other foot (and it was my own foot), the project was flipped on it's head. Now I was playing client AND designer all at once. I found over time that sometimes I need to actually separate these two parts out and in so many ways, talk to myself and ask those same questions I would of a client. It all starts with pencil and paper however. Sometimes it goes right into the computer (Adobe Illustrator is my weapon of choice for logo creation). Sometimes it starts as a sketch on paper, then gets scanned, refined, printed out and further manipulated by hand. This process of refinement can happen quickly or can take some time - it all depends really as you begin to play with the forms and letters (or numbers in this case). But generally, coming out of those first conversations, I'll have a pretty clear idea, even if it's a foggy one, of where I need to go. But it is very important to know your client, know their audience and understand how the logo will be used and what types of applications it will be deployed (silk screened vs embroidery, web vs print, etched vs stamped/forged/formed/molded, etc).
So the story behind my logo starts in and around 2006-ish. Mostly I was playing primarily with the numbers "44" as forms but not really having any real inspiration and not really getting anywhere. I let this rest for about 2 years (literally) and pulled it off the shelf around 2008 again when I really started to get serious about making 44 Bikes a brand. This is when I had that conversation with myself and I began to do a "brain dump". I needed to identify what I wanted 44 Bikes to be. What it's heritage was.
So I started by writing all kinds of words that inspire me with regards to bicycles, feelings, phrases, etc. Then I branched off into some nostalgic terms that related back to my family heritage, as well as my own personal 'bloodline' with physical heritage. This was really important because it began to paint a backstory of the brand that was really an extension of myself. I knew I didn't want to simply name it after myself like "Henry Cycles" or something along those lines. That was a bit too literal for my sensibilities. I really love the dynamic that symbols and icons play in our every day lives. Things that are recognizable without fully seeing them. So I knew I wanted the logo to have some visual depth. Here's a quick mockup of the original sources of going through that process of developing the logo from it's original incarnation in 2008 (bottom) to where it was fully realized and refined in about 2010 (top). There's a lot missing from this, but these are the most prominent forms that the logo went through before I was "done".
The original at the bottom took me a while to arrive at and the one at the top took a few days to fully develop and refine. Keep in mind that this was done intermittently between client work, late nights or full on assaults. Sometimes I'll be working on one project that will completely derail because a previous project or even a future project comes crashing into sharp focus. I'll have to push aside that work, and change gears while the juices are flowing. While this may seem disjointed it's actually not. Each project vibes off of each other and continuously is developing in my conscious. So in a way, the more diverse the project load out, the better the results sometimes can be as they are all helping to push one another to that next level. This can even happen out in the shop and vice versa.
But when I begin a actual bicycle build, that is done from start to finish without interuption. I do not mix and match builds (that's a recipe for disaster as numbers and measurements could really be mixed up between drawings). It works well on the visual design side, but when it's time to build, it's not so. But it's all really one continuous creative flow if you follow me. I've worked up a pictogram to help illustrate the story and meaning:
There are two versions of the logo: One with the word lock and one without. The one with the word lock I refer to as the "44 Logo Stack".
Here goes: The overall form if you get rid of everything is a shield. That is a protective symbol so everything inside is locked up tight and under watch by this form. Inside of this is the "Word Lock". The literal side of the brand. Just below and encasing "The heart" is "The Field". This allows the eye to rest and plays a bit of a dynamic with the positive and negative shapes and allows the heart shape to rest as well as they eyes. This is also a reference to the gridiron. The basic shape within the shield is "The Heart". I live and breath bicycles. They're in my blood. It's my heartbeat. That heart form is stamped on the front of each and every one of my bikes. It's another way of stating: My Heart is worn on my sleeve. "The Twins" also play much like a left/right ventrical. My heritage is 1/2 German, 1/4 Irish and 1/4 Polish. The Germanness seems to get the better of me and this is a slight nod to the traditional double headed eagle. It also plays to the tune that I am married to a twin. She's there with my heart. They point east and west-bringing the two sides together (and hint at the duality of the Number 44, divisible by 2). The heart is shrouded by "the Wings". These are stretched downward, much like a bird would finish it's stroke of flight upward, ascending. Not up or outstretched as to pause the form. "The Vents" harken the days of the balloon tire cruisers and the early clunkers - my nod to mountain bikes early days. "The Numbers" bring it all together so the shape is a shield within a shield = double protection. That's it in a nutshell. All the DNA of my heritage, love and passion locked up in that logo.
Here is the finished "Logo":
Here is the alternate "Logo Stack", with the more recent and fully refined Logo Script that appears on my Down Tubes:
Here is the entire brand platform which includes the Logo, the Made Logo, The Script (The Motto logo is missing - present on the image below of the actual printed decals):
And here is the recent full decal sheet as printed in black. 2 kits per sheet. Mountain bikes get the "Double Trouble" kit where the logo script appears on each side of the Down Tube, while road bikes get the "Sick and Single" kit where the script is placed a bit high and offset towards the head tube:
The Made in NH kind of gave me some fits, but again, I went back, thoroughly ran through all the ideas and meaning / story behind the brand and arrived at symbols and parts that held weight not only visually but also built upon that "back story".
gipraw
Well-known member
I continue to be amazed by your work. Thanks for taking the time to post and document this stuff.
Can you recommend a good source for fat tires and wheels?
Can you recommend a good source for fat tires and wheels?
No problem. A local bike shop will be able to help you I'm sure, but online, a relatively good source for Fat Bike Tires/Wheel sets is: www.fatbikes.com
If you wouldn't mind could you elaborate on how you get the joints so tight. Do you only use a tubing notcher or do you also fine tune it after? And how do you measure for the cuts so they hit exactly where you want them to?
Thanks in advance
Rick.
Thanks in advance
Rick.