.498 Air Hammers!... Again

[87BMW325is]

I hate to make yet another thread about this, but I can't find the answers I'm looking for. I want one for professional automotive work in the rust belt. My Snap On PH3050B leaves quit a bit to be desired at times.

Obviously, a lot of people recommend the Astro 4980 because it is essentially a cheaper CP717, which is what I suppose you could call the original common big bore automotive air hammer. Some choose the Chicago Pneumatic for this reason. Others buy the Astro because South Main Auto and others use it. No one usually mentions the Aircat 5300-A and 5300-A-T (same thing, tool only).

I contacted all three companies via email and had very little luck receiving any useful information. Astro Pneumatic linked me to the SMA videos I've already seen. Their product page is the only one that lists energy at 7.2J - I don't know if this is actually a fair representation of how the tools perform anyway, even if you had specs from all three (but it would be nice to have some sort of standardized value for comparison). Chicago Pneumatic did not respond. The guy from Aircat was happy to give his opinion on the 5300-A being the best, because it's basically the same as the 717, but cheaper than either of the others if you plan on having a quick change chuck and some bits to start (will replace with Ajax if/when included bits break).

I was unable to find any actual comparison of the guns (has me wishing for AvE teardowns). No videos on the Aircat that I can find, and little in the way of reviews (it does have a 2 year warranty though). Most of what I found in my searching was simply speculation and brand-loyal opinions.

Can anyone definitively tell me if there is a difference in the performance/construction of these three air hammers? If there's not, it seems to make sense to go for the Aircat to give .498 a try at the entry level with the least money shoveled. At the same time, I have a hard time spending that much money without seeing a single video of it working - unless I know there is literally no difference.

Moving on, after reading all of the threads here, I looked for an Atlas Copco RRH12P-TS Riveting Hammer. I know at least a couple on the forums have them. The only one I've seen on ebay so far is far more than I want to spend for just the hammer, the seller is unresponsive, uses a stock photo, and is unclear if the gun is new-old stock (in which case I might be more willing), simply used-tested "refurbished", or actually refurbished. There are, however, a few RRH10P models - but are these worth a premium over the three consumer models above?

Also, am I missing out by not looking at other brands and models of riveting hammers? If so, how? I have very little reference point and I am having difficulty finding any consistent opinions from those who do. Granted, this is a relatively niche thing.

If anyone has actually used more than one of these tools, has links to videos or reviews that I am unaware of, or has any other valuable information to add, please speak up! I am not looking for "buy this one because X makes/uses it" type of responses.

Thanks for taking the time to read this if you did.

TL;DR -
Which do I buy and why?

- CP717
- Astro 4980
- Aircat 5300-A
- Atlas Copco RRH10P-TS
- Atlas Copco RRH12P-TS (currently lots more money and of unknown condition - do I wait for another?)
- something else (why?)

Thanks!

 

[PoorOwner]

I had a CP with anti vibration (it's not big bore, but it seemed to be a fancy one that was recommended here back then)

I had to chip out some concrete under a fence post, it broke quick, and it doesn't appear to be repairable without buying most of the guts.

I went to HD and bought the husky for $25 and it worked through the job.

So that's my story.

 

[Zewnten]

Atlas copco have a joule rating for each rivit gun, I found that helped me to compare what level, x4 x6 x8, each hammer fit into and their competitors.

 

[87BMW325is]

Atlas copco have a joule rating for each rivit gun, I found that helped me to compare what level, x4 x6 x8, each hammer fit into and their competitors.

I did notice that, which does help. But having never used any of those types of guns makes it hard to understand how it will actually work out, what kind of "feel", trigger control, and so forth it will have versus the competitors. But yeah, based on what I've read here, something equivalent to the 16J Atlas Copco RRH12 would probably be about the perfect amount of overkill for me, personally. But will any other brand 7x rivet gun perform similarly to this one? I know guys here are happy with those, but what if they'd bought another brand? Does it matter at all? Or is it like using a completely different tool?

I wish I could buy a bunch of them just to do a really big comparison video for other people looking at them for this purpose. If I had that kinda money to blow, I would haha.

 

[87BMW325is]

One question I forgot to ask: How hard is it to get replacement parts for something like an Atlas Copco?

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

I may be bias.
I will say we're starting to make the bits and quick change chuck that SMA has had from us for 2-3 years and hopefully can introduce them at a low street price.

 

[Super Mech]

I have the CP and it is one serious tool for mass destruction. If you want something to move that is the tool of choice. I also have the the Snap On PH3050. My wife has some “tools” that hit harder than that thing.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I have the Astro .498, and I'm pretty happy with it. It's the back-up for if the CP714 can't move it. Ajax is my choice for bits, they're the best lasting I've found. Hate to mention this, but you will find things "big nasty" cannot move. IMO there are certain things so stuck the only option is to melt it out.


EDIT: I've used a CP717; can't say my astro seems much different.

 

[speed bump]

I can't comment on little stuff but in my experience Atlas Copco makes great stuff and parts are generally available but the smallest thing I have used from is a jackleg drill. Since you don't really need the riveting features and you aren't going to run it all day I probably would skip the Atlas Copco stuff unless you get a great deal although 20 cfm of air consumption makes me think those are some bad *** hammers.

Otherwise, the Astro seems to be the cheapest.

 

[Skin]

One question I forgot to ask: How hard is it to get replacement parts for something like an Atlas Copco?

Not easy. Atlas Copco, like a number of industrial equipment manufacturers, breaks dealers up into regions to force you to buy local and lock out the possibility of a price war. Good from the standpoint of a retailer/dealer, bad for the end user. If your local dealer is bad or doesn't want to help you're kind of screwed.


That said you're buying an air hammer, not a generator or compressor so I wouldn't worry about it much. I've been inside their rivet guns and the only thing that might fail years down the line is some O-rings which you can source anywhere.


I got tired of the ticklers and all I have now is a compact .401 that I keep for roll pins and clips. My work horses are the 12TS and 14TS.

 

[dnschmidt]

If you think Snap-On bends you over you've seen nothing compared to Atlas-Copco. They truly make premium tools but they actually serve the industrial market and charge accordingly. I wouldn't be surprised if a "Big Nasty" equivalent wasn't $3,000.

 

[Skin]

If you think Snap-On bends you over you've seen nothing compared to Atlas-Copco. They truly make premium tools but they actually serve the industrial market and charge accordingly. I wouldn't be surprised if a "Big Nasty" equivalent wasn't $3,000.

I assume from his comments about the 12TS condition hes buying off ebay like most of us poor grunts. At retail you'd probably be pretty close to the price of a nice Dake press.

 

[plinker]

I bought a CP 717 for around 260$ (ebay w/ coupon) around the first of the year. I've seen some reviews say the Astro & CP are the same from the same factory, I would disagree as the CP is made in Japan, Astro is Taiwan. They are likely identical but I cant say for sure.

Anyway, I also have a PH3050 (bought used) and really only use it lately when I need a bit I dont have in .498. I cant say the CP is "better" in the sense it's the end all of air hammers, but it defiantly hits harder then any .401 and given a little time will usually work for what I need. The trigger is quite nice and easy to feather.

I am overall happy with the 717, if starting over, I'd probably skip the 3050 and get the 717 and a 7150.

I dont remember the "X" rating of the CP (5x?), but given what I know now after using the CP 717, a 7x (or bigger) would be better I think.

 

[LryFx1]

My recommendation is the mighty CP717. I have had one in my toolbox since 1982, and will not ever Not have one. When push comes to shove ( so to speak ), it makes things Move !

I am hard pressed to list all the jobs it can be, and has been successfully used on. Since you indicated you are dealing with rusty vehicles, as I also do regularly, here are just a few :

Leaf spring bushing bolts rusted to the sleeve ? Spin the nut off and hammer it though with the CP and hammer bit. No heating, no spray penetrant, just pound it though. Never had one I could not make move with mine.

Ball joints, tie rods, etc. come right apart with the forks.

Frozen on rotors ? Hammer on them with the flat hammer bit. No heat, no spray, just hammer till they come loose. Noisy as all get out, but it always works. And it gets all the rust and scale off the hub mounting surface at the same time.

I'm retired from owning a towing service, and frequently bought used trucks. Frozen hydraulic cylinder pins that have not had regular grease jobs were common. The 717 would get them out. Had to heat some of them first though, but not nearly as much as without the help of the big air hammer.

Once you have one, all the uses will become obvious. And ya, it busts up concrete real well if you ever have a need to do that.

I'm actually on my second one now. My first one got stolen when my shop got broken into in 2010. In those 28 years I had no issues with it at all. In 2013 I replaced it with a new one. There was no thought in my mind to get any other brand. I have to say I was worried about COO when I ordered it ( figuring China ya know ), but when I took it out of the box there was a sticker on it that said Made in Japan. I was very pleased with that situation. I just looked up the invoice for the new one, and it was 419.00 in 2013. This one is working just as good as the original one.

I've never found a need for a quick change screw on retainer for these. I like the stiff spring retainer. The thing hits so hard that I think an aluminum one would never last anyhow. I always wear leather gloves when I use mine, so getting skin caught in the spring is never a concern.

Hope this helps. Regards, Larry

 

[Olafur]

I have bought several Atlas hammers for a shop I work for. All tools are shop owned the air hammers are shared among several mechanics. They repair farm equipment, construction, earth moving and trucks. I can state the Atlas guns perform and last very well in this difficult environment. One RRH12 broke a sleeve in the nose steering the bit. Parts are available via Atlas dealer but very expensive. I can't really blame the hammer for braking considering it's often used as a pry bar so to speak. This happened after two years of heavy use.

One hammer we have is RRH8 with 8 joules per blow. I was removing big nut from large transmission with it and it didn't move after considerable hammering. RRH12 removed the nut in just seconds. So there is considerable difference between 8 joules and 17

The downside I have with Atlas hammers is I haven’t been able to find quick change chucks. And the stock springs are fragile and , at least over here, rather expensive @ $60 each!

I have had shards of steel flying with RRH12, one went through a glove and dug into the palm of my hand. Perhaps there is a limit to how powerful air hammers companies like to market for repair work. It wouldn't surprise me if the bigger rivet guns are considered unsafe for hammering on steel. Riveting is a different process than banging on all kinds of steel. Using these guns on full power is dangerous. Not Garage Journal safety nannies dangerous, where everyone should put on face shield before using a screwdriver. This is real..

If you get RRH12 or 14 be prepared to buy some extra bits. They break frequently. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with other air hammers.

 

[87BMW325is]

I may be bias.
I will say we're starting to make the bits and quick change chuck that SMA has had from us for 2-3 years and hopefully can introduce them at a low street price.

This is good to hear! Will they be sold with the hammers? Any idea on availability? Thanks for popping in!

...IMO there are certain things so stuck the only option is to melt it out.


EDIT: I've used a CP717; can't say my astro seems much different.

This is exactly the kind of response I was looking for. Thanks for adding!

Not easy. Atlas Copco, like a number of industrial equipment manufacturers, breaks dealers up into regions to force you to buy local and lock out the possibility of a price war. Good from the standpoint of a retailer/dealer, bad for the end user. If your local dealer is bad or doesn't want to help you're kind of screwed.


That said you're buying an air hammer, not a generator or compressor so I wouldn't worry about it much. I've been inside their rivet guns and the only thing that might fail years down the line is some O-rings which you can source anywhere.


I got tired of the ticklers and all I have now is a compact .401 that I keep for roll pins and clips. My work horses are the 12TS and 14TS.

Thanks for sharing your experience/knowledge. I will keep this in mind. I do plan on keeping a .401" in the box regardless. I like having multiple options when it comes to any sort of problem solving.

I assume from his comments about the 12TS condition hes buying off ebay like most of us poor grunts. At retail you'd probably be pretty close to the price of a nice Dake press.

Your assumption would be correct. I don't like getting bent over. Hence my truck brand tools were mostly bought at a ~50% discount while a student - or used. I'll pay retail for critical diagnostic equipment, but not an industrial air hammer that would take me a very long time to wear out whether bought new or used. It also isn't 100% critical to finishing a job correctly (at least not in regular automotive applications) - it just makes life easier, and it's fun.

I bought a CP 717 for around 260$ (ebay w/ coupon) around the first of the year. I've seen some reviews say the Astro & CP are the same from the same factory, I would disagree as the CP is made in Japan, Astro is Taiwan. They are likely identical but I cant say for sure.

Anyway, I also have a PH3050 (bought used) and really only use it lately when I need a bit I dont have in .498. I cant say the CP is "better" in the sense it's the end all of air hammers, but it defiantly hits harder then any .401 and given a little time will usually work for what I need. The trigger is quite nice and easy to feather.

I am overall happy with the 717, if starting over, I'd probably skip the 3050 and get the 717 and a 7150.

I dont remember the "X" rating of the CP (5x?), but given what I know now after using the CP 717, a 7x (or bigger) would be better I think.

Thanks, COO is definitely something to bring up. Even if the architecture of the guns is exactly the same, this is a difference.

The latter part of your response is exactly the kind of experiential thing I want to hear about. I will take this under consideration in my decision/search. From what I understand, the CP717 would be considered a 5x. What you're saying reinforces my hunch that I'd be a little better suited with a little more overkill.

My recommendation is the mighty CP717. I have had one in my toolbox since 1982, and will not ever Not have one. When push comes to shove ( so to speak ), it makes things Move !
...
Hope this helps. Regards, Larry

It does help! Wonderful examples, and I loved the way your entire response read! I was highly entertained. Thanks for taking the time to type that up.

I have bought several Atlas hammers for a shop I work for...

I have had shards of steel flying with RRH12, one went through a glove and dug into the palm of my hand. Perhaps there is a limit to how powerful air hammers companies like to market for repair work. It wouldn't surprise me if the bigger rivet guns are considered unsafe for hammering on steel. Riveting is a different process than banging on all kinds of steel. Using these guns on full power is dangerous. Not Garage Journal safety nannies dangerous, where everyone should put on face shield before using a screwdriver. This is real..

If you get RRH12 or 14 be prepared to buy some extra bits. They break frequently. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with other air hammers.

Shards of steel flying - I like the sound of that. My guess (and it is a guess) is that your comparison between your bigger and smaller riveters is probably a pretty good analogy for the three automotive market .498s as well. And I think you're probably entirely right about the part I quoted here as well. That, and the fact that geography is so much of a factor and some have more stuck stuff to deal with than others, is probably why they're not trying to sell us bigger hammers.

I know I saw a picture here of an RRH12 with an Ajax quick change chuck on it. IIRC, the guy had to get in touch with Ajax in order to work out a certain part he needed in order to install it, but they were helpful and he did find it.



Fellas, I'm honestly elated about the number and quality of the responses I'm getting here! I did not expect this much feeback of this caliber, based on the old threads I found. Thank you so much everyone for the thoughtful additions. I read all of it and I will carefully consider all the opinions and information every one of you has contributed. Everyone is welcome to continue to add to this thread, for I hope that it will stand as a more comprehensive discussion of the subject for others like me who are searching for the same information/opinions. I will continue checking back and will update with whatever decisions I make.

 

[Skin]

I bought a CP 717 for around 260$ (ebay w/ coupon) around the first of the year. I've seen some reviews say the Astro & CP are the same from the same factory, I would disagree as the CP is made in Japan, Astro is Taiwan. They are likely identical but I cant say for sure.

Anyway, I also have a PH3050 (bought used) and really only use it lately when I need a bit I dont have in .498. I cant say the CP is "better" in the sense it's the end all of air hammers, but it defiantly hits harder then any .401 and given a little time will usually work for what I need. The trigger is quite nice and easy to feather.

I am overall happy with the 717, if starting over, I'd probably skip the 3050 and get the 717 and a 7150.

I dont remember the "X" rating of the CP (5x?), but given what I know now after using the CP 717, a 7x (or bigger) would be better I think.

Chris states you could swap any part in a CP717 into a 4980 and vice-versa. Not really sure how much stock i'd put into a Japan COO. There is definitely a grey area with some of their manufacturing. It would be interesting to see them tore apart side by side and see if there is any difference at all but I don't have a spare $800.

 

[87BMW325is]

Chris states you could swap any part in a CP717 into a 4980 and vice-versa. Not really sure how much stock i'd put into a Japan COO. There is definitely a grey area with some of their manufacturing. It would be interesting to see them tore apart side by side and see if there is any difference at all but I don't have a spare $800.

Good to know about interchangeability.

I've read that before, but yeah things change or get produced in multiple factories, assembled in different places, et cetera. I'm not sure that Japan versus Taiwan really matters to me as I see it practically. It might to others. I will say having something that says "Made in Japan", if it really is, is kinda cool though. It's also the OG of the triad. On the other hand, I like supporting Astro because they often bring innovative things to the table at a reasonable price point.

Agreed on the last comment. Throw the Aircat in the mix as well. I'd love to make a video or do a thread with photos on all three, but I'm only willing to buy one Haha.

 

[redturbo]

Tech I used to work with for years has the CP717. Too expensive for me, an independent tool dealer sold me a Rod Craft version for half of the CP. I see Rod Craft doesn't sell it anymore. But it looks just like the Astro, CP, Jet versions I seen. This air hammer has been a fantastic tool over the last 20 years

 

[anndel]

I have the Snap-on PH3050 and the Astro 4980 as backup. I find myself grabbing the Astro first.

 

[87BMW325is]

I just contacted Aircat. They state that the 5300 is made in Taiwan as well as all other models except for 5 (China, Tire service market)

I just did some checking, for anyone who cares.

- The Aircat 5300 is made in Taiwan with a 2 year warranty.

- The Astro Pneumatic 4980 is made in Taiwan with a 1 year warranty.

- The Chicago Pneumatic CP717 is made in Japan (from what I can gather from listings and posts here) with a 2 year warranty (their "classic" line carries a 2 year over their normal 1 year).

Tech I used to work with for years has the CP717. Too expensive for me, an independent tool dealer sold me a Rod Craft version for half of the CP. I see Rod Craft doesn't sell it anymore. But it looks just like the Astro, CP, Jet versions I seen. This air hammer has been a fantastic tool over the last 20 years

It seems as though the copying of this air hammer model is not a new thing then, haha. I looked up Rodcraft and noticed they have 2 nice looking air hammers, but in some odd metric sizing. Glad to hear yours has held up so well!

 

[LryFx1]

A couple of more thoughts regarding the CP717 :

Don't consider having one ( or any .498 big air hammer ) to be a replacement for your .401 air hammers. They fill very different applications. The 717 does have a real nice trigger that is easily feathered, but I would still never try to use it for slitting exhaust tubing on cars as one example. Or ripping light sheet metal, like body panels.

Another thing we did a lot of with the 717 is removing rusted in trailer hitch receiver inserts. You know how many people drive around with those in their hitch all the time, and they get seriously rusted in place ? Then when they need to change the insert for a different height one they can't get the old one to move ? 717 to the rescue ! We even had a few people get mad at us for charging for the service, because it goes so quick !

If you do get one, I recommend putting a whip hose on it. You will beat an air coupler to pieces real fast if you do not. Same thing goes for a swivel fitting whip hose. I use a regular one, and not having a swivel is no issue at all.

 

[Finky198]

I know I saw a picture here of an RRH12 with an Ajax quick change chuck on it. IIRC, the guy had to get in touch with Ajax in order to work out a certain part he needed in order to install it, but they were helpful and he did find it.


Fellas, I'm honestly elated about the number and quality of the responses I'm getting here! I did not expect this much feeback of this caliber, based on the old threads I found. Thank you so much everyone for the thoughtful additions. I read all of it and I will carefully consider all the opinions and information every one of you has contributed. Everyone is welcome to continue to add to this thread, for I hope that it will stand as a more comprehensive discussion of the subject for others like me who are searching for the same information/opinions. I will continue checking back and will update with whatever decisions I make.

LOL that guy is ME. I’m glad I took a look in here everything that Olafur said is very true and theirs no need to rehash it all.

The quick chucks are available thru Ajax, but it can take a few phone calls...

Def one of my favorite tools stick with Ajax for chisel as well.The GP set is sub par... Other than that their workhorses.

 

[87BMW325is]

A couple of more thoughts regarding the CP717 :

Don't consider having one ( or any .498 big air hammer ) to be a replacement for your .401 air hammers. They fill very different applications...

If you do get one, I recommend putting a whip hose on it. You will beat an air coupler to pieces real fast if you do not. Same thing goes for a swivel fitting whip hose. I use a regular one, and not having a swivel is no issue at all.

Don't worry, I don't plan on selling my .401 hammer.

When you say it destroys fittings, do you mean you're using a whip hose that threads directly into the tool with no quick release coupler on that end?

The "you did it too fast" always gets me what with the years of experience and thousands of dollars of tools, haha. Glad most of our customers aren't like that.

LOL that guy is ME. I’m glad I took a look in here everything that Olafur said is very true and theirs no need to rehash it all.

The quick chucks are available thru Ajax, but it can take a few phone calls...

Def one of my favorite tools stick with Ajax for chisel as well.The GP set is sub par... Other than that their workhorses.

Nice! Thanks for taking the lead and making it easier for me, Haha.

I use only Ajax on my .401 and plan to stick with them for anything bigger. Mind if I ask what the chuck cost you? I assume it's not the same as the CP717 chuck (Ajax P/N 3200-3)?

I was able to track down and get in touch with the ebay seller with the only RRH12P-TS available right now. Apparently it's used, but basically mint condition (and free returns for 60 days). They're asking 630 (marked down), which is more than I want to spend, but there is the ability to make a lesser offer so we'll see. I don't want to go completely broke just to have a big ole shmammer. He's sending me some pictures tomorrow. Apparently it's been in their inventory for a while now.

I'm having second thoughts on the size of the thing, getting parts if I ever need them, and whether my shop air will be sufficient to run it for any period of time, ha. I suppose it'll hold resale value though. And I could always get an inbetween sized hammer later (I mean we are on garagejournal for a reason).

 

[LryFx1]

87BMW325is,

You wrote : "When you say it destroys fittings, do you mean you're using a whip hose that threads directly into the tool with no quick release coupler on that end?"

Yup, that is exactly what I mean. 1/4" NPT male fitting on the hose screwed right into the inlet on the tool. Just a 2' or so hose, and then the quick coupler on the other end. That way the couplers on your shop hoses don't get the serious beating they would right at the inlet. Doing that also keeps the coupler out of the way when you are trying to get the tool into tight areas. Never tried a swivel whip hose on it, but I figure the vibration would wreck that pretty quickly too.

Those Atlas Copco hammers probably hit harder, but they have Long barrels. I'm thinking they might be hard to fit into some places. The CP is pretty short overall and is easy to get into tight spaces. Like up inside truck frame rails and so on.

I use whip hoses on almost all of my air tools. It takes more space to store them that way of course, but your shop hose fittings will thank you.

I sound like I am trying to sell you a 717, LOL ! Not really, just saying that it is a tool that I find extremely handy to have around.

 

[87BMW325is]

Gotchya! I appreciate all of the insight and advice. I'll probably add a hose like that regardless of which route I go. And I was thinking the same thing. It's a hard decision, haha. The more pros and cons I have on the table, the easier it makes it!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'll bet most of those CP717 are over 20 years old !

 

[theoldwizard1]

The CP is pretty short overall ...

You haven't seen any of those cheap Chinese one ! They about fit in the palm of your hand. WORTHLESS unless you are knocking the heads off of aluminum pop rivets !

 

[Olafur]

There is no doubt the Japanese CP717 is great tool and highly recommended. It's derivatives are probably great as well and well suited for general automotive work up to 1 ton pickup trucks. However judging by energy per blow numbers and air consumption these hammers have less than half of the energy of a 7x rivet gun like the Atlas RRH12 and would probably leave much to be desired for great many things.

The Atlas sports floating barrel and behind the barrel is compressed air pocket dampening the vibration. So while you watch the business end doing the work of several BFH (big fuc*** hammers) you hardly feel a thing. This give you control of the hammer, without the vibration dampening it would probably be very difficult to hold and control. Even impossible.

Our guys who work on the biggest trucks and trailers you find on the road and off, absolutely love the big Atlas guns. With their vibration dampening and great trigger control they have saved many days.

Your selection of air hammer depends on your needs and what you are working on. The "Big Nasty" for example seems to be great tool for decent price and will probably do everything needed in general automotive up to one ton pickup trucks. For larger equipment probably not.

 

[87BMW325is]

Well put, Olafur. Being that you have been up close and "in it", so to speak, with these tools, I will take it that this is probably a very accurate breakdown of the applications for these tools. Putting them in "brackets" and defining a rough cutoff for philosophy of use is helpful.

That said, it sounds to me like the RRH12 is useful over a far greater range, what with its adjustability. And the caveat would be its much larger size, limiting its ability to help on many applications - especially on smaller vehicles (1 ton and under with smaller clearances). Would you say this is accurate? Or am I off base with the first remark in this paragraph?

For anyone curious, here is an old video demonstrating how the vibration damping works and the difference it makes in short and sustained use:

 

[rlitman]

...Don't consider having one ( or any .498 big air hammer ) to be a replacement for your .401 air hammers...

So the CP717 is too big?

There is no doubt the Japanese CP717 is great tool and highly recommended. It's derivatives are probably great as well and well suited for general automotive work up to 1 ton pickup trucks. However judging by energy per blow numbers and air consumption these hammers have less than half of the energy of a 7x rivet gun like the Atlas RRH12 and would probably leave much to be desired for great many things...

So the CP717 is too small? LOL. Sounds to me like we have a consensus. The CP717 is a benchmark.

...For anyone curious, here is an old video demonstrating how the vibration damping works and the difference it makes in short and sustained use:

Wow. That was well worth watching. Thanks.

For my part, I'm not selling my antique USA made CP717 any time soon, and I don't remember the last time I touched my .401 hammers (except the one I keep a needle scaler tip on permanently).

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

As we manufacture for names around the world which include heavy equipment in developing nations, we of course make air hammers much bigger. Like a 9X with 149mm (nearly 6") stroke.

But Astro U.S. is pretty committed to offering tools to technicians, ones people need and use. The amount of people who need a tool significantly longer than a 4980, that will break .498 bits if you're not using it very mindfully, prefers to break objects less than 5/16" thick steel rather than move them and want to pay $500 and above is quite limited despite what some may try to convince you of.

We of course can make them for the U.S., but unless we do well to reach the industrial market place it would be more of a "Mine bigger than yours" thing, which as a 50 year old company we'll leave to the younger crowd with something to prove

 

[87BMW325is]

I won't argue that I'm not part of the younger crowd. And for me, honestly, this is definitely in part about wanting to have a BFH. But still, even being a quarter lifer, I prefer to use the tool that works for me, rather than having to swing it myself.

I completely understand why companies don't market larger air hammers to this industry. There are a few very good reasons not to. To be clear, I'm not faulting anyone for that. And this is surely a bit of niche thing.

But having the biggest hammer is at least kinda cool in my book. As long as you're judicious and precise with your blows, which many aren't. And it makes work easier. As long as you're not breaking stuff you can't afford to fix - errr, replace.

I'm still betwixt and between on which I'm going to get. It's down to price and overall length. And heck, maybe I'll get one, and the other later if it doesn't work out. Resale usually isn't too bad on a nice tool you bought used and took care of. And who knows, I might end up working on way bigger stuff at some point (already see big-ish trucks occasionally). Not to mention the Snap on PH3050 being "THE BIGGEST ONE YOU CAN GET", but in reality only moves half the things I ask it to. But I don't particularly want to spend over 500 dollars either. I'm sure most don't. But it's potentially a lot more useful than other things you can spend even more money on. The kid in me wants the big one, sensible me says get the one that would probably suit me fine without being too much. The me who browses r/buyitforlife says get the high end industrial tool, and the me who buys most of his tools on discount or craigslist says get the cheaper one.

Could regret it either way without a trial run. Or be totally pleased either way. Might just flip a coin at this point. Might just buy both and make a video about them. We'll see which way the wind blows.

 

[KWtech90]

I have the CP and it is one serious tool for mass destruction. If you want something to move that is the tool of choice. I also have the the Snap On PH3050. My wife has some “tools” that hit harder than that thing.

I haven't had any brand of bit last longer than 3 minutes of operation with my ph3050b. I'm sure it's not as strong as the .498 guns, but when the tool is so powerful it regularly breaks bits how can you reasonably expect it to be more powerful?

 

[vssjim]

I have an Astro 4980, CP 717 in .498 and a CP 714 and 715 in .401.
Really don't see difference in the .498's they both hit real hard and I use all Ajax couplers and bits. Would buy either again, I actually sold one Astro to a friend that borrowed it telling me his SO 3050 was real strong. The next week when I saw him he said I want to buy it, me and the guys at work couldn't be leave the difference so I just sold it to him and bought another. PS he hasn't used the so3050 since.
The Cp714 is just so good for all types of work needing any type of control and the 715 is a 1970's first deal that is sheet metal and muffler cutter and is even a US made Zip Gun labeled CP I don't used it much but I have had it from high school shop.

 

[plinker]

I haven't had any brand of bit last longer than 3 minutes of operation with my ph3050b. I'm sure it's not as strong as the .498 guns, but when the tool is so powerful it regularly breaks bits how can you reasonably expect it to be more powerful?

With my 3050 & 7150, The only bits I've broke are the heavily used ones (short hammer face) & the cheap ones from Napa or what's included with a set. Any bit used enough will break, no matter if Snap-on, Ajax or Matco.

YMMV.

 

[87BMW325is]

With my 3050 & 7150, The only bits I've broke are the heavily used ones (short hammer face) & the cheap ones from Napa or what's included with a set. Any bit used enough will break, no matter if Snap-on, Ajax or Matco.

YMMV.

I have yet to break any bits in 2 years of pounding pretty hard and regularly on my Ajax bits in my 3050. I'm sure it will happen eventually. I have had to reshape them.

 

[87BMW325is]

Well, I suppose I'll update. I bought a "refurbished" RRH12P-TS with a 90 day warranty for what I thought was a great price for what appears to be a lightly used tool. It showed up today, and as soon as I hooked it up I had a pretty large air leak at the rear. It also leaks somewhere else when I depress the bit, and is very hard to press down. Not sure if this is normal or not, but it also rattles near/in the handle when inverted or shook. With 90-100 psi supply, it doesn't function at the lowest setting, and is intermittent up to halfway. I only tested it briefly as a problem was apparent (in air rapidly rushing out without touching the controls) and I don't have any bits but for the riveting tool that came on it. I would try to rebuild it if it had cost me less - and I had any reasonable way to obtain parts. But I don't, so I'll be sending it back. I don't think the company actually rebuilds or has a replacement, unfortunately. I'm pretty disappointed about this, as I had very high hopes for this purchase.

However, I do have a NEW Astro 4980, Ajax Kwik chuck, and a good assortment of Ajax chisels and bits on the way. Hopefully this yields better results.

I bought both hammers intending to make a video comparison of them including the PH3050B, with the thought of reselling whichever I liked the least. Too bad, I don't think that will be happening in the near future. I'll entertain doing something of the like down the road, after I have the return sorted out, and if I come across anything. I really would like to create an observable comparison for everyone else like me who is interested.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed. If any interesting developments arise, I'll report back.

 

[Skin]

Bypassing a little air is normal for them as its pumping air through the counter weight piston chamber. The knocking is the Piston moving back and forth. The barrel is spring loaded which is part of the vibration damping.

 

[87BMW325is]

Bypassing a little air is normal for them. The knocking is the Piston moving back and forth. The barrel is spring loaded a bit which is part of the vibration damping.

It's bypassing what I would consider quite a lot of air. The spring loaded I get, but I'm talking it takes 2 hands and some body weight to push the barrel down when I have air hooked up. Or is that normal? Is it normal not to fire when the trigger adjustment is turned all the way down? Maybe I'm just dumb.

Just messed with it again... for some reason I thought the barrel had to be depressed all the way for it to start - it doesn't, and I don't know why I was under that impression. I've never had any air tool that wasn't my boss' multiple decade old 231c leak this badly.

Please tell me I just don't know what I'm doing.