6 vs 12 point sockets

[_brian_]

My question is in regard to a 6 point and a 12 point socket. It is my understanding that many (or most?) believe that 6 point sockets are preferred, especially in the smaller sizes. Given that, I also understand that at a certain point (size) the 12 point becomes basically the same as a 6 point when it comes to contact area between the socket and nut/bolt. Meaning that given the size of the fastener, the 12 point contacts the same amount of the faster as the 6 point does.

I guess first, if you disagree, that is one thing. If you agree, what I wonder is at what point does this happen, where the 6 and 12 point become approx equal in contact area?

I assume that this theory or fact depends on the socket design like the flank drive style vs the flat side surface style and maybe others. So please consider that this is a comparison of modern quality sockets.

 

[dnschmidt]

I agree that above 14mm it really doesn't make much of a difference. I'm always amazed how people will refuse to use 12 point sockets but have no issue with using a 12 point wrench.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Some things you need 12 point sockets for (such as 12 point heads). Otherwise I stick to 6 points - ratchets make the other set of points unnecessary. Just my opinion...

Mind you we're not talking about straight wrenches, however... 2 different tools with 2 different uses.

 

[zendriver]

I can't find the image but snap on explained it perfectly (to me anyway) 40 years ago, which is no surprise since they always push the 6 points.

Either 6 or 12 point they're all make the same contact with a hex head since with a 12 point, only 6 points are making contact at any time.

The difference is the 6 point makes contact further towards the center of the contact face, where the 12 point makes contact towards the outer edge, thus making it easier to round off.

It has been my understanding, the 12 point only has an real advantage in hard-to-reach areas since it theoretically goes over the hex head twice as easy.

Personally, I never used 12 point, unless that's all I have


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[driz]

Some things you need 12 point sockets for (such as 12 point heads). Otherwise I stick to 6 points - ratchets make the other set of points unnecessary. Just my opinion...

Mind you we're not talking about straight wrenches, however... 2 different tools with 2 different uses.

Yup, that’s my way for a while now. 12 points only when necessary. When you are dealing with the Rustbelts issues 6 point will save so many headaches, torch adventures ect.


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[_Riddle]

I'm not a professional but have had enough experience with rusted suspension and brake components that I'll only use 6 point sockets. Less risk of rounding off corners and it feels more confident when applying a lot of leverage.

 

[DakotaMan]

For whatever reason, I generally feel more confident that I won't strip anything with 6 point. However, my drive shaft requires a 12 point because it's a 12 point bolt...so I buy them by the each.

I do not own 12 point wrenches either. Everything is 6 point.

 

[gatlibs]

I agree that above 14mm it really doesn't make much of a difference. I'm always amazed how people will refuse to use 12 point sockets but have no issue with using a 12 point wrench.

I'd argue that the wrench completely surrounded by fastener and the socket with ratchet are sufficiently different experiences. Turning the ratchet produces force in a different direction via rotating around the fastener into rotating off the fastener. I don't use 12 pointed wrenches because of the chance of stripping, but I would believe that they are much less likely to slip off while stripping a fastener.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

In industrial use, a 12pt socket might be more fragile,. The new rounded corners fix that stress point. On machinery, I've never been bothered by using a 12pt s. On a badly rusted nut, you hammered the next size down on , or more likely, got out the cutting torch. Working on cars, I liked short narrow 12 pts. 3/8" drive.

With the new high tooth count flex head ratchets, 6 pt wouldn't be such a disadvantage any more.

 

[_brian_]

Thanks for all the replies on the topic. I did want to emphasize the main point behind my query though ... at what point does the surface area of a 12 point become no different than that of the 6 point? It is interesting to hear the arguments against using 12 point regardless of if the contact area is the same, it all provides insight to the question.

I can add in my experience with the issue... when I purchased a wheel nut socket set, I inquired about the need to the 12 point as I hated the idea of buying 6 and 12 point. It was advised to be to skip the 6 point and just get the 12 point as the surface area is basically the same at that size fastener. These were 28mm+ sized impact sockets.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I'm going to say 5/8 and bigger. I've had rusted or rounded bolts 9/16 and smaller that'll slip with a 12 point. For me, anything 1/2 drive is mostly 12 point. 95% of my 3/8 and 1/4 sockets are 6 point.

 

[dledinger]

I tend to use mostly 6 points, but have full sets of 12s also. Certain applications require 12s of course.

For the big stuff it matters not at all.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Rust and wear will make a difference. Also some fasteners aren't sized the same (tolerances, platings, etc).

I've split a few sockets, I believe all were 12 PT.

 

[TNToy]

I'd say that for 14mm or 9/16 and below, the 6 point have a small advantage. Above that, I'd just use 12 point anytime.

I’ve removed enough half-rounded 3/4”-1” bolts in my time to prove that one wrong quite easily. After the 12pt slipped over the corner one time, reheat the fastener with a torch, take a 6-point socket to it, and sucessfully back it out with a 1” impact or long cheater pipe on a 1” breaker bar.

It happens fairly regularly. We’re talking things like frozen fasteners on CAT D5-D6 track motors and the like, here.

 

[gatlibs]

I wish that Wright posted more information about it's tooling. If it has a comparison with multiple sizes and areas of contact across both drives, then that'd tell everyone.

http://www.wrighttool.com/documents/wright-drive-info-new.pdf

 

[ItsNemo]

Use a 6 point on a 6 point hex...use 12 point on a 12 point hex. I mean, if you don't subscribe to this, you might as well just use an adjustable wrench or gator socket right?

 

[pbon]

Use a 6 point on a 6 point hex...use 12 point on a 12 point hex.

That is what I do. Makes sense to me. I use a 12 point on a hex bolt only when I don’t have a 6 point handy, which sometimes happens. I have never had any luck getting the 6 point socket on the 12 point bolt, though.

 

[Houe]

I've got almost all 6pt sockets - prefer them. I have some larger 12pt sockets 23mm+ only because crapsman didn't make 6pt for whatever reason in the larger sizes. They did make larger SAE in 6pt however. Anyone care to educate me why they did this? Anyway I use the 12pt and they have worked fine. That being said I now have many of those larger sizes in 6pt from snap on now. If I come across a larger metric that I only have a 12pt socket and its rusty or in poor shape - I'll head to the store and buy a 6pt. I just won't risk it. If the fastener looks in good shape i'll probably put the 12pt on it.

I generally use sockets over wrenches - personal preference. I find them more adaptable than wrenches. You have ratchets, breaker bars, flex head ratchets, extensions, wobble extensions, universal joints, etc. etc. That being said I also have a large selection of wrenches which all have 12pt box ends. I tend to think wrenches apply the torque on axis whereas sockets tend to be a bit off axis. This might keep them from rounding fasteners as much - not sure.

There are certainly 6pt box end wrenches. Not sure I would want them because you give up so much angular freedom. Why every ratcheting wrench isn't 6pt I don't know - I suppose the same reason 12pt sockets exist. Seems like that would be a good fit, but then again ratcheting wrenches aren't meant for large torque so maybe it just doesn't matter much.

I'm rambling...

 

[cliftonbros89]

Can’t say I’ve ever really noticed any more or less surface contact with larger size sockets. I’ve noticed 12pt sockets slip in all sizes. I have 12 point but I generally prefer 6pt. I’ve just always had better luck with 6pt.

For me I can’t say it’s had to do with how much surface area the socket grabs. It’s more often the condition of the fastener. I’ve had plenty of 12pt 3/4” drive sockets slip on the head of a bolt. I grab a 6pt and the problem usually goes away. Sure the bolt make still be stuck and need a ton or torque to break loose. But unless the head of the bolt is just completely ruined the 6pt won’t slip.

I guess it’s kind of like square head (4pt.) fasteners. Would you rather have a 4pt, 8pt, or 12pt? They’ll all work. But if its a seized up plug in the side of an engine block that hasn’t been moved since it came from the factory 40 years ago, which would be less likely to slip?

 

[Mikeske]

Working in the aviation fields I did I really do not want a 6 point as a lot of the fasteners are 12 point and the nut side will be 6 point if it is not a captive nut. I actually prefer to use 6 point where ever I can but that is not going to work so 12 point is the way go for aviation. Since I really do not have rusted vehicles in the area I live I can either way here but the preference is still for a 6 point.

 

[Professional Tool User]

Anyone who says 12 points don't slip as much as 6 points has never really had to deal with any rusted, rounded, or dirt encrusted fasteners. And I bet those people don't use 12 point impact sockets by default.

 

[MagnusM4]

I prefer 6pt sockets only, unless it’s a 12pt bolt.

 

[pbon]

I am in NH where roads are salted in winter and cars rust. Nuts and bolts can be corroded in place. I try to avoid risk of stripping the nut or bolt since that will just make it harder to remove and I’ll have to replace it once I get it free. I sometimes put the bolt back in with some anti seize.

 

[bob15]

Some of you guys should try using a modern designed 12 point socket/wrench and not one that was made using a 1953 design.......

Never had any issues with 12 point tool on autos or yellow equipment or ag equipment, but then again I'm using a modern lobular designed 12 point tool.

 

[Wrench97]

While I agree there the newer 12 points are better I still have to use 6 point sockets every day to remove bolts 12 modern wrenches won't take out.

 

[bob15]

I'd argue that the wrench completely surrounded by fastener and the socket with ratchet are sufficiently different experiences. Turning the ratchet produces force in a different direction via rotating around the fastener into rotating off the fastener. I don't use 12 pointed wrenches because of the chance of stripping, but I would believe that they are much less likely to slip off while stripping a fastener.

If you are turning a wrench to loosen a fastener, the ratchet is also turning the same way.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say with regards to the wrench surrounding a fastener differently than a socket. They both surround it 360°. Are you saying that you believe the socket is twisting off the fastener easier than the wrench? If so, that is because you aren't pushing/pulling parallel with the fastener.

 

[u118224]

Hopefully the bolts that a 12 pt won’t remove are being replaced.

 

[mcbane]

The big difference between contact area of 6 vs 12 point involves fasteners that are already damaged. When someone already partially rounded the bolt head by using a crescent wrench or open end wrench that slipped, there isn’t much for a 12 point socket to grab onto.


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[zendriver]

I have noticed over time, (correct me if I'm wrong)

Snap on Love's six point.

Sears loved twelve point but tolerated six point

Harbor freight is almost all twelve point with the exception of impact sockets


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[Downwindtracker 2]

Jet brand is seems to be everywhere around here, now. It's all 6pt. I assumed the reason was warranty.

 

[gatlibs]

If you are turning a wrench to loosen a fastener, the ratchet is also turning the same way.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say with regards to the wrench surrounding a fastener differently than a socket. They both surround it 360°. Are you saying that you believe the socket is twisting off the fastener easier than the wrench? If so, that is because you aren't pushing/pulling parallel with the fastener.

Since there is distance between the ratchet and the fastener you are creating a moment of force that really doesn't exist with a wrench that is flush or smaller than the fastener. That force created by the moment causes slipping from the fastener which combines the force applied to turn the fastener. I'm sure that you have had a socket come off when you would think that a wrench would have stayed on the fastener.

 

[driz]

Anyone who says 12 points don't slip as much as 6 points has never really had to deal with any rusted, rounded, or dirt encrusted fasteners. And I bet those people don't use 12 point impact sockets by default.

Oh yea!!! And then there’s that infamous question that suddenly looms[emoji22]. Was that tiny bit of movement the nut moving or[emoji2961]starting to strip?? Maby then you realize there’s an immobile wire loom in back real close and the regret sinks in. Then you open a Beer pick up the sawzall and brace yourself for all those filings hitting you in the face along with the chunks of mud [emoji2959]and cold water. That’s the beginning of a bad day in the rust belt. That’s the difference between the 6 and 12 point in the north, [emoji853][emoji81][emoji81][emoji81][emoji81]TEARS........


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[Stinky_Pete]

I used to hate 12 point sockets. Probably because the first 12 points I used were Craftsman, and were just as likely to round off a nut or bolt then they were to remove it. Then I used Snap-on and Matco 12 point sockets that I liked and knew I could rely on. And all the box end wrenches I've used were 12 point and never rounded a bolt.

I wouldn't trust any 12 point for larger sizes though, no matter who makes them.

But I like 12 point sockets for the fact that you can usually just put it on the fastener without a problem, this really helps if the bolt is hard to reach or there's not much working room. You don't need to move the ratchet much if at all to get the socket on. They also help when you can't even see the fastener, like starter bolts that are on the top and you're underneath the car.

 

[PFSard]

I lived in the Northeast U.S. for the first 45 years of my life. The last 21 years in AZ. I use(d) mainly 12 point sockets in both areas. 6 points when the situation is iffy. Rust, rounded, etc.

Just to add to the mix.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Ko-Ken has a socket set with both. The 12-point begins at around 12 or 13mm and larger. Since they specialize in sockets, I consider that research I didn't have to pay for.

Also, the 12-point fasteners I see are sized larger than that. So I don't look for 6 point large sockets. nor 12-point smaller sockets.

If I dealt with rust, I might have a solid reason to go with 6 point more often. But I don't, and don't.

 

[gatlibs]

Ko-Ken has a socket set with both. The 12-point begins at around 12 or 13mm and larger. Since they specialize in sockets, I consider that research I didn't have to pay for.

Also, the 12-point fasteners I see are sized larger than that. So I don't look for 6 point large sockets. nor 12-point smaller sockets.

If I dealt with rust, I might have a solid reason to go with 6 point more often. But I don't, and don't.

I had thought about this. The old Craftsman 299 piece sets only have some sizes in 6 point or twelve pointed sockets. That might just be because most persons only want to buy those sizes more commonly I'm one of the two styles. It doesn't necessarily mean that those styles work better.

 

[Parrothead]

When I first started wrenching years ago, I used more 12pts than I do now. With the old corse tooth ratchets they were more useful in constrained areas. Swing arc mattered. Now? With a 72t ratchet available for $5, it’s only 6 point for me. 12 pt fastener not withstanding of course.

 

[_brian_]

After reading some comments I wanted to share. I bought my starter tool set in the mid to late 1990s. Mine came with 6 point primary, except for large sizes in 1/2 inch, like 28mm and up, those were all 12 point. I inherited a good deal of Craftsman tools from my father. Those sockets were most all 12 point, both large and small sizes. The 3/4 drive set is all 12 point.

One thing I can say is that Craftsman favors 12 point on large sized sockets and Tekton favors 6 point for all. Clearly two different mindsets. I wonder if there is a winner there or if it is just splitting hairs. Me personally, I tend to use 6 point unless I have a need or reason to use otherwise. Same applies to the "universal" or spline sockets. I have them and they are great with damaged fasteners, but they don't really touch good fasteners. It is those larger sizes where I am lacking experience to tell me one way or another.

 

[CR888]

Lots of wives tales on this subject based on old timers who were using tools that have been far superseded today. The modern 6 & 12pt sockets and wrenches perform far different to years past. Most tools we own are copied designs but a few great tool co's like Bonney (my favourite in this area), SO, Koken, Stahlwille and others have extensively looked at the science behind turning a hex shaped fastener. The way a tool directs forces through the hex whether sending force across the hex (not good) or directing force in a circular motion (good) is all directly related to how & where the tool contacts the hex. For maximum energy going into turning the hex the closer the contact point is to the tips of the hex the better, but this can be problematic too, as that is the weakest part of the fastener so the closest you can 'safely' be the better. Specialty sockets like Metrinch and others are more of a 'last resort' option as they send forces across the fastener in an attempt to turn it. This subject is far from simple and the more I read about the science of turning fasteners the less I concluded I knew at all.

 

[seber]

If you want to find the difference, try using a 12 point with an impact. Suddenly you will find yourself rounding all kinds of fasteners. There really is no reason to use a 12 point socket on a six point head.