62 Corvette rebuild

[don long]

Thank you Matt
Because of your questions, I have been checking things out and I have a good friend (my old towing manager) who assures me not to worry, he has my back just like the old days. So when the time comes he will step up and help burn down my credit card with the correct purchases

Today I managed to solve the steering shaft issues and ordered a new pollished steering column (3 weeks out) and that was the extent of productivity on the Vette today

 

[ambenz]

Love it!
I do like checking out your progress and that is a very cool ride.
I'll probably be doing this to my Mustang in about 15 years, hope they still make coyote or even better motors for my future build.
Subscribed....thanks for sharing!

 

[MattVette89]

Good to hear, Don. Car is coming along quite nicely and I enjoy following the build.

 

[don long]

Worked on the Vette for a couple of hours today
Started to find the line to rebuild the left inner fender around the steering shaft and brake master cylinder.
Having put 4 wheel disc brakes on the car it now needs a brake power booster and there doesn't seem to be enough room for the booster and the steering shaft in the same area and that is a bit of a problem.
This is the original master cylinder.



This was the original brake set up but it just takes up too much space and it is UGLY



I heard about an electrical power booster so it's onto the internet tonight

Thanks for following along

Don

 

[Kevin54]

On my '81 Caprice Diesel, I have power brakes but there is no booster. The brakes run off of the power steering pump. I was speaking with my nephew about if I would change the car over to a gas engine, if I could use the components off of the diesel, and he said I could. So using the power steering pump would go right on to the gas engine, but it would not have to have a vacuum booster, it would just be a few hydraulic lines.

 

[HD FLHX]

On my '81 Caprice Diesel, I have power brakes but there is no booster. The brakes run off of the power steering pump. I was speaking with my nephew about if I would change the car over to a gas engine, if I could use the components off of the diesel, and he said I could. So using the power steering pump would go right on to the gas engine, but it would not have to have a vacuum booster, it would just be a few hydraulic lines.

That is a Hydro-Boost system. Used a lot on diesels because of they don't create enough vacuum to run a booster. It is a pretty popular conversion in the offroad world.

 

[Leakie]

Hey don long

Nice job so far. Do not worry about getting the LT1 to run, it is not that big of a deal. I just finished my 37 Chevy last year which I installed an LT1 in. At first I was skeptical seeings how I had stopped working as a mechanic long before FI became the norm. There is a ton of info on the internet on how to do it. I found this place, http://www.lt1350.com/ , Tom the guy who runs the place is extremely helpful! He modified the harness and reflashed the computer for a very reasonable some. He then helped me out over the phone when I had questions about the wiring, And then helped me again after I had finished and was having a hard start problem. There are quite a few places that do this but I would highly recommend this guy, just for his knowledge and customer service.

Here is a pic of the LT1....

 

[don long]

Thanks for the link Leakie
My plan is to finish the left inner apron finish blocking the body one more time
finish up the trans tunnel and send the body back to the booth for a double coat of primer. Then assemble the whole car get it running drive it for about a week and then take it all back apart block the body one or two more time then start the paint process.

So somewhere in there the motor must be running
Your LT1 install looks good
Thanks for the post

Don

 

[don long]

Been working on the trans tunnel for the past couple of days

Since I'm going to run a late model 6 speed ****** the tunnel and shifter need to be modified.

So I cut the shift area out and revamped the piece
raised the top of the shift section.






Started glassing the pieces back together

 

[bodyguy16]

Looking good Don!!! Im loving the wall of 3m cabinets, you have a very nice garage.

 

[akdiesel]

Don
Nice to see she is getting some love.
Keeping a close eye on this.

 

[jayoldschool]

You can ditch that lockout solenoid from the side of the trans if you need more room and put a block out plate in its place.

 

[don long]

Looking good Don!!! Im loving the wall of 3m cabinets, you have a very nice garage.

Thanks bodyguy

They were a promotion item years ago. I have used them in many applications over the years and when I retired I begged 3M for those boxes.

Don
Nice to see she is getting some love.
Keeping a close eye on this.

Well ak
I'm not sure if it is love or guilt that is driving the work on her, but what ever it is it's working for the time being

You can ditch that lockout solenoid from the side of the trans if you need more room and put a block out plate in its place.

I removed the solenoid today ,looked at it and decided to set it back in so I don't get dirt in the trans then while working on the tunnel I realized that I can't take it out now until I lift the body up

What exactly does it do??

 

[don long]

Here is todays progress

I cut the remainder of the drive shaft tunnel out of the floor to raise it to the level of the shifter plate



I split it in half to make it a little wider
Then I built a bridge to hold the two tunnel pieces at the proper height




I added 2 inches of fiberglass to the width of each piece.
Then fitting the extended halfs to the bridge I trimmed them to fit the floor line. then glassed up the top of the tunnel. I'm not ready to glass it solid just yet.

 

[Mr.N]

Having put 4 wheel disc brakes on the car it now needs a brake power booster



This was the replacement set up but it just takes up too much space and it is UGLY

Don, thanks for posting.
It's fun watching you go through the car.


Not to rain on your day, but the 'new' replacement brake master isn't for four wheel disk brakes.
Four wheel disk brake master have similar sized fluid reserves for front and rear as they take more fluid than drums. Do you know how to size you brake master? I'd hate to see you not have good brakes.
Hydro boost is great, Some Mustangs came with them, maybe a parts source?


I am using a 68 corvette brake master in my jeep with four wheel disk brakes. Problem is finding one that is not cheap sand cast..

.

 

[ronr80]

Very nice work , I have a couple of vettes myself , but not sure I would tackle a frame up resto. I fix many of them in my spare time , good luck ,Ron

 

[MP&C]

Don, nice work on the tunnel, you've got me itching here....

 

[8man]

LOL MP&C, I was thinking the same thing.

Nice work Don thanks for posting the progress.

 

[slow]

there are 2 lockout solenoids on a T56 trans, one to keep you out of reverse and one to force the 1-4 shift, vs a 1-2 shift called CARS but more commonly called CAGS

 

[don long]

Very nice work , I have a couple of vettes myself , but not sure I would tackle a frame up resto. I fix many of them in my spare time , good luck ,Ron

ronr80 Thanks for joining in. I've never tackled any thing to do with a corvette before, This is a huge learning curve for me.
What years are your Vettes? I also have a 1959 and a 1965

Don, nice work on the tunnel, you've got me itching here....

Thanks MP.
I'm getting a little used to it now that all my clothes are full of the dust
I am thinking of scratching the tunnel and starting over I don't like the shape
and I have another idea after studying the last picture for over an hour last night

LOL MP&C, I was thinking the same thing.

Nice work Don thanks for posting the progress.

8man
By posting the progress I am creating a history to look back on. When I'm feeling like I"m getting nowhere I can look back and understand why lol

there are 2 lockout solenoids on a T56 trans, one to keep you out of reverse and one to force the 1-4 shift, vs a 1-2 shift called CARS but more commonly called CAGS

slow
Thanks for the info. So which one is on the driver side??

 

[don long]

After working on the tunnel and not being satisfied with the results I studied this photo for a long time last night.



I went to the garage this morning after sleeping on my problem and came up with a new plan. I went to the store and bought a chunk of foam. I looked at the rear area of the tunnel and realized that the look I am after is sitting right in front of me



The door just above the tunnel, It's flat on the top and both sides are tapered which will blend into the larger area of the shifter area.
So tomorrow I will shape the foam into what I want the tunnel to look like and wrap it in fiberglass then pull the foam away from the glass.



Hope that works.

 

[RickP]

The door just above the tunnel, It's flat on the top and both sides are tapered which will blend into the larger area of the shifter area.
So tomorrow I will shape the foam into what I want the tunnel to look like and wrap it in fiberglass then pull the foam away from the glass.

Hope that works.

Hey there Don - I've really enjoyed reading about your Corvette rebuild and also the Big Party Garage. Your plan for the shape of the tunnel sounds like a good one, and you seem to know your way around fiberglass. But I just wanted to ask if you've done fiberglass molds before? Do you already have a bottle of mold release gel? I've spent about half my spare time doing fiberglass with polyester and epoxy resins for most of the last year, and I'd be happy to help if you'd like. Just let me know and I can either point you to the websites I learned from, or else let you know what worked for me.

I hesitated to ask you about this, because I know you have a long history of doing bodywork, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask, and I hope you're not offended at all. I grew up doing fiberglass on sailboat hulls, so I thought another perspective might help with your current rebuild.

 

[don long]

Rick
Thanks for being brave enough to express your concerns
I need all the help that I can get
This is my first fiberglass project and my first attempt at working with this stuff
I don't have any release agent but planned on wrapping the mold in a plastic wrap prior to putting any matting on it.
will this work?
where do I find release agents? how many different products are there?

I'm an old bodyman from the 1960s and 70s when we just beat the metal into submission then covered it with bondo and never messed with the glass!!

Thanks for the help and concern

Don

 

[MP&C]

I'm getting a little used to it now that all my clothes are full of the dust

When we had the 54 here in the shop doing some rather extensive f/g work, it took about two to three weeks to get "accustomed" to it. After that I could have rolled around in it with little itch at all..


For your tunnel, you may run the risk that the resin will reduce the blue foam to a blob, or have a similar effect on plastic wrap. You may want to test those items first with some resin mix to find out before risking your shaped piece. It's been awhile since I messed with any, but it always seemed that the f/g cloth required "tamping" with the ends of the brush's bristles to get a good penetration of the resin in the cloth. Perhaps you can lay one dry piece of cloth over your mold, then another, and simply brush the outer, no tamping. One it is set up, then add another layer, with tamping. Once set up, remove from the form, see if the inner "barrier" layer can be pulled out, and then continue the process. If the inner layer doesn't want to release from the middle layer, mix another batch of resin and give a good thorough tamping from the inside to eliminate any air pockets.

Another thing I'd point out is there are basically two kinds of cloth, the woven (think screen door) and the scatter mat (think OSB). The woven is typically stronger but should only be used on the innermost layer(s). Anything that is going to touch paint should have at least two layers of the scatter mat for best results, as the screen door pattern of the woven has the tendency to show through the paint given time to outgas and cure. Having a repeated, parallel pattern will be more obvious and easier to see in the paint. The scatter mat will eliminate some of that. So we typically did any initial shapes with a layer or two of the woven mat for strength, and followed with a couple layers of the scatter mat. Also helps to let the area outgas in the hot sun (may not be possible this time of year) to allow for any shrinking before getting to your final smoothing for painting. Some of the C1 corvette forums may shed a bit more details..

 

[RickP]

Rick
Thanks for being brave enough to express your concerns
I need all the help that I can get
This is my first fiberglass project and my first attempt at working with this stuff
I don't have any release agent but planned on wrapping the mold in a plastic wrap prior to putting any matting on it.
will this work?
where do I find release agents? how many different products are there?

I'm an old bodyman from the 1960s and 70s when we just beat the metal into submission then covered it with bondo and never messed with the glass!!

Thanks for the help and concern

Don

Okay, I'd be happy to help if you'd like - I'll PM you my email and phone number. But here's a brief version of what I was thinking you could do. If there's anybody on here who's rebuilt Vettes before, they'd probably be a better source of advice for you, especially about how to do it faster.

I think your idea about shaping the foam is a good one, and you could definitely layup a rough fiberglass shape on top of that. (I'd use wax paper over the foam instead of plastic wrap.) But then you'll have to do a lot of bondo and shaping work to the surface of the glass mat before its ready for paint. Basically a quick glass job followed by a lot of bodywork. (I know that's your area, so that's definitely a workable plan. But I think you'll be happier with the results of a better glass job in the end.)

I'm thinking you could do the bondo work to the foam instead, and then use it to make a mold. That's how sailboat hulls are fixed all the time. Once you have the foam in the perfect shape that you want, you sand it smooth and spray it with a liquid mold release (available in the fiberglass section of any marine store).

Then you start making a mold on top of the foam shape. You can make it out of resin, fiberglass or rtv mold rubber (or even plaster of paris if you want) - basically anything that's smooth and will hold its shape. You should probably reinforce it with fiberglass on the back of the mold so it keeps its shape when you remove the foam.

Then you layup the glass for the tunnel itself. I'd start by spraying the inside of the mold with several layers of gelcoat (just like spraying paint, only thicker - I'd recommend using a special gelcoat dump gun so you don't ruin any of your paint guns).

Then you just layup the fiberglass cloth inside the gelcoat. (Edit: MP&C's suggestion to use chopped strand mat was a good one, and it's easier to bend it into the corners of your mold.) You can make the inside of this layup as rough and ugly as you want, because it will be in the tunnel - it just has to be strong (so woven cloth is best for the inside layers). The gelcoat is how I'd do a sailboat hull repair, and it would give you a super smooth surface on the outside of your tunnel, but you can skip that step if you'd prefer to just use bondo and paint to finish off the tunnel.

Anyway, that's it in a nutshell. I'm sure there are faster ways to do the job, but this is the standard way to do boat repair on curved surfaces. It takes a little more time to make the mold, but the final product ends up really smooth - I think you'll love how it turns out. Also, your background will give you a real advantage with the learning curve on this method and you should pick it up very quickly.

 

[don long]

Well Robert
I tried the blue foam this morning. I shaved it to the shape I wanted
I put some 3M trim spray adhesive on the foam to hold the plastic film from slipping I mixed up a batch of resin and poured it over a sheet of f/g cloth that I cut to shape and layed on the mold.
All was looking great for about 30 seconds then the mold started to turn to jelly and loose its form. The glue I sprayed on the foam had a reaction and desolved the foam.

Back to the drawing board

 

[don long]

Thanks for all the info Rick

After a disasterious first attempt
I turned the block of foam over and layed out the shape I wanted again.
I took a scrap piece of the foam and poured laquer thinner on it, and it totally desolved, telling me that the foam is designed to be used as a mold because with my last try some of the resin went onto the foam and it set up with no problem but I couldn't remove it from the foam.
So I layed a layer of f/g cloth directly on the foam and poured resin onto it.
Then I added a layer of matting over the cloth and poured more resin onto it
patting the mat with a brush until it was fully saturated then added another layer of matting and more resin then a second layer of cloth and saturated all layers with resin and let it set up and it worked very well
Because the mold was flat with beveled sides the cloth and matting layed down very evenly and the resin flowed out very well leaving me a pretty flat smooth top surface to finish shapeing Monday (pictures then)

 

[RickP]

Excellent! I'm glad it worked well for you.

I'm always amazed when I see the quality of your bodywork, so I'm sure it will look great.

 

[don long]

Excellent! I'm glad it worked well for you.

I'm always amazed when I see the quality of your bodywork, so I'm sure it will look great.

Thanks Rick
We worked on the tunnel and the mold worked out very well, in fact the tunnel is back in the car and tomorrow will be a bondo day.
Here is what it looks like tonight.



Thanks for all the help guys. This f/g stuff is very interesting

 

[Zeke]

When we had the 54 here in the shop doing some rather extensive f/g work, it took about two to three weeks to get "accustomed" to it. After that I could have rolled around in it with little itch at all..


For your tunnel, you may run the risk that the resin will reduce the blue foam to a blob, or have a similar effect on plastic wrap. You may want to test those items first with some resin mix to find out before risking your shaped piece. It's been awhile since I messed with any, but it always seemed that the f/g cloth required "tamping" with the ends of the brush's bristles to get a good penetration of the resin in the cloth. Perhaps you can lay one dry piece of cloth over your mold, then another, and simply brush the outer, no tamping. One it is set up, then add another layer, with tamping. Once set up, remove from the form, see if the inner "barrier" layer can be pulled out, and then continue the process. If the inner layer doesn't want to release from the middle layer, mix another batch of resin and give a good thorough tamping from the inside to eliminate any air pockets.

Another thing I'd point out is there are basically two kinds of cloth, the woven (think screen door) and the scatter mat (think OSB). The woven is typically stronger but should only be used on the innermost layer(s). Anything that is going to touch paint should have at least two layers of the scatter mat for best results, as the screen door pattern of the woven has the tendency to show through the paint given time to outgas and cure. Having a repeated, parallel pattern will be more obvious and easier to see in the paint. The scatter mat will eliminate some of that. So we typically did any initial shapes with a layer or two of the woven mat for strength, and followed with a couple layers of the scatter mat. Also helps to let the area outgas in the hot sun (may not be possible this time of year) to allow for any shrinking before getting to your final smoothing for painting. Some of the C1 corvette forums may shed a bit more details..

Matt is used to hold a quantity of resin. Cloth is used both for strength and the ability to work a squeegee over the part to remove excess resin. You can imagine what would happen with matt only with a squeegee. Of course there are matt rollers, but they mostly are used to roll out bubbles and lay down chopper gun parts.

 

[don long]

I have been working on the vette for a couple of days and have decided that it would be easier to clean the underside of the car and reinforce the tunnel if I could turn the car over. Thanks to Mark at the monster garage (he posted the frame specs for the vette) I have the dementions to build a carrier to bolt the vette body on and tie it to my rotisserie and spin it over. So tomorrow I'll put on my welders hat and hit it. Wish me a little luck please I think i may need it

Don

 

[RickP]

Wow, you do know how to tackle the big projects! That definitely sounds like the best way to work on the tunnel. I really hate doing f/g work from underneath - that has to be one of the worst jobs around. So working on it from the top will definitely be a lot better. I'm looking forward to seeing the body on your rotisserie. Good luck!

 

[don long]

Thanks for your help Zeke

Rick you asked for it and here it is after a long 2 days
I started out using too thin of material and about 1/2 way through I realized my mistake and cut up what I had built and started over this time with 2 1/2 " square tubing






The new pieces went together pretty well and with a little help from a couple friends that dropped by today the car is sitting on its side.

 

[don long]

Work is so much easier with the body on the rotisserie.
Today we cleaned the underside of the car, worked on the console and block sanded the hood inside and out, now it's ready for the next coat of primer.

 

[MP&C]

Looking good Don!

 

[don long]

Looking good Don!

Thanks Robert.

I've been working on the bottom of the car trying to clean it up a bit to complement the frame and suspension when it is together.
The rotisserie is a blessing, couldn't do this work without it



I'm also block sanding the loose panels getting them ready for more primer


The undersides are just as important as the top surfaces so I have been cleaning them up as well (the fiberglass is very rough and is taking a bit of sanding to make them presentable. It is sure hard on my fingers lol

 

[RickP]

The undersides are just as important as the top surfaces so I have been cleaning them up as well (the fiberglass is very rough and is taking a bit of sanding to make them presentable. It is sure hard on my fingers lol
The deck lid is just over 1/2 done.

The underside is looking good Don - that whole car will be a showpiece when you're done.

Have you thought about just spraying the underside of the hood with something to cover up the rough fiberglass? Bondo would be a pain, and I don't have any experience with paint, so I'd just spray the whole thing with gelcoat if it were me. That's saved me a lot of fiberglass sanding over the years.

 

[don long]

The underside is looking good Don - that whole car will be a showpiece when you're done.

Have you thought about just spraying the underside of the hood with something to cover up the rough fiberglass? Bondo would be a pain, and I don't have any experience with paint, so I'd just spray the whole thing with gelcoat if it were me. That's saved me a lot of fiberglass sanding over the years. I think a spray gun is $119 from US Composites if you decide to try it.

Thanks Rick

I do appreciate you dropping by.
I hope the car will be a show piece, the engine compartment will be on display whenever the car is shown so the hood will be open and a clean smooth underside is very important. I will be priming and blocking both sides of the hood as well as the trunk and door jambs.
Here is where I left off today


I only have the left door to block out the top surface then I can spray the primer to the back sides and door jamb
and the bottom of the car is almost clean as well.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Just chiming in to say congratulations, Don.

You're doing great work. For an old geezer (like me!) you still know how to get a LOT of great work done. I'm truly impressed. Best to you and yours, Dan

 

[ambenz]

Man Oh Man, I just adore your ride and what your doing to get it "pristine!"
I've see a very few of these, at car shows in my area and they almost always take the top, "Best Of Show" prize.
Being a convertible, is even sweeter....very impressive and your not even finished.
Thanks for sharing the built!