'78 F350 Dually Project

[RivennHewn]

To me, that would suggest that whatever cylinder you had the wire off of is firing way too early or the firing order isn't correct.

If it hadn't run smoothly for a bit, I'd think the same thing.
It was running, and I haven't changed/removed any wires other than no. 1

 

[Badhabit]

What happens if you turn the ign key to the run position and the crank it with a starter button on the solenoid. If you do not have a starter button, you could jump the solenoid with a screw driver. Just make sure it is not in gear. I have had some that have power to the coil in the run position but loses it in the start position.

H

 

[txvwnut]

Dont you have two of these trucks? If so swap the coil from one to the other and see what happens, it sounds like the coil is bleeding off and not able to produce the needed voltage to make spark.

I don't remember what all you have done to this one, but have you changed the plug wires?

 

[RivennHewn]

txvw

I have replaced the coil, but not the wires as of yet

 

[drivesitfar]

Riv: i'm watching along even though i'm not really a car or truck guy and sympathizing with your issues. your thread needed a bump so maybe one of the early mechanics looking at GJ for a minute might have a clue to your issue.

good luck

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks drives. You mention that you're not a truck guy, but your old Flatbed was involved in my decision to buy mine. I remember seeing it on CL, thinking what a cool old truck it was.

Today I had a couple of guys over to help out with the truck. We started over going thru just about everything again. They had more diagnostic tools than I have and we ruled out a few things.

Still doesn't run any different than it did before.

I did go off on a bit of a tangent this afternoon. I found another inline fuel filter which was pretty nasty. Although the filter I installed (closer to the carb) is running clear, I decided to change out the filters, blow out the lines, and rinse the tank.

I only had a couple gallons of gas in the tank, and it came out easy.

Bonus, I found a new screwdriver that someone left in the tank!!!! Tank actually looks really clean.

List to date of new parts:

Starter
Solenoid
Ignition control module
Distributor
Coil
Voltage regulator
Fuel pump/filter


with an inline tester, we found the spark plugs are getting power from the distributor as it is dying.

Kind of going back to thinking it's a carb/fuel problem. Any thoughts?

 

[RivennHewn]

Perspective:


Sometimes it's got nothing to do with getting anything done.

 

[1Garageman]

 

[txvwnut]

I did go off on a bit of a tangent this afternoon. I found another inline fuel filter which was pretty nasty. Although the filter I installed (closer to the carb) is running clear, I decided to change out the filters, blow out the lines, and rinse the tank.

You only need one fuel filter since its quite likely that both fuel filters are the same micron size so what gets through one will get through the other one too. I see this so many times on old Volkswagens and it usually leads to the same problems you are having.

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks VWnut.

I'm starting to think this is going to be a hard luck truck.

Like I posted before, I pulled the tank and flushed it out.

I had a friend help me take it out, and put it back in. It was easy, and uneventful.

Until I put it back in and filled it up.




The tank has a leak in it, and I had quite a bit of fuel in the cab.

I now have the seat removed and need to remove the rubber floor mat and any insulation under the mat.

I guess it's good I found out about the leak now, as opposed to later on down the road.

Maybe just flushing it out caused this? I don't think so.
I haven't actually filled the tank before, so maybe the PO knew not to fill it up.

 

[drivesitfar]

Riv: sorry to hear you are still having issues with the new truck. does the first one have any issues or maybe this is the first one cause i think you own two trucks now don't you?

you did make me smile with not only your calm attitude, but your post with a beer on the flatbed.

have a good evening and hoping your weekend has some fun planned or maybe just some better luck with the truck.

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks Drives,

I'm pretty sure that these things just come with the joy of owning a vintage vehicle.

I'd love to remove the tank from behind the seat in the cab, but with the PTO and the hydraulic ram, I'm not sure I have room under the dump bed.

I'd kind of like to put it outside the frame, in front of the rear wheels. Is that even legal anymore?

At least the 1st truck is running, and when I get a bit down I can jump in it and run down the road with a smile on my face.

 

[RivennHewn]

Anybody have any thoughts on this style of tank?

This one is for an Isuzu NPR, and it's kinda $$$$$ for my budget.

 

[RivennHewn]

"It all pays the same"


Cab with the tank removed, and cleaning up the mess.

Removing the old body panel adhesive that was cracked, failing and starting to rust.

Cleaned up, wire brushed, and POR15 applied.

Would love to hear about options for a gas tank.
I really don't want to put a tank behind the seat, but seems options are pretty limited.

It's kind of hard to determine if a tank will work under the dump bed when you need a running motor to use the PTO to lift the bed to see is there is room for a tank, when you don't have a tank a or running motor.

 

[Streetbu]

Should be able to use a frame mounted tank no problem. Lots of trucks running around with both...

 

[James E]

On the bright side, gas is a great solvent and I'll bet your cab floor is pretty spotlessly clean now!

I've heard about tanks getting flushed and then leaking afterwards. It's actually pretty common. Radiators, too. Was it leaking from a rust-hole or from one of the fittings or hoses?

If you find a good solution to the in-cab tank, let me know. I'd love to move the tank out of the cab on my '72. They made a dual tank option for your bodystyle for the camper specials and some of the F-250 and F-350 models, but I don't know where those mount and if they would get in the way of your hydraulics.

In fact, I didn't even know that an in-cab tank was an option for your body-style. I find that surprising. I thought Ford stopped that in '73 with the new body-style.

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks James.

The leak was just a pin hole, in the only rust patch on the tank. About the size of a half dollar. I believe Ford had in the cab tanks up to 1977. From '78 on they were under the bed.

My biggest problem finding a new tank is that it's a cab and chasis, which frame is about 4" narrower than a standard PU. I don't like the idea of a tank in the cab, or outside the frame, but there aren't many options when you have all the dump bed hardware.

Still searching for a good solution.

 

[RivennHewn]

Considering the options:

Not sure if I'm going to put a tank back behind the seat, or some big speakers or a rack to hold my ol .30-06, but it's clean and pretty back there now.

Don't know if any car guys would use Grace peel and stick rubber ice and water shield for sound deadener, or Sikaflex for body panel adhesive, but a construction guy would!

Then I sprayed it with rubberized truck bed liner out of a rattle can.

Looks pretty dang good for behind a seat.

 

[wmrra13]

Sorry to hear you're still having issues.

Hate to sound like a broken record but, did you ever check the filters where the fuel lines enter the carb?

Good luck.

 

[Perrorojo]

Have you tried feeding it gas from a spray bottle when it starts to die? You said you had spark at the time the engine started to die so that leaves fuel and air. Put some gas is a squirt bottle and see if you can prevent it from dying by giving it a shot of fuel through the carb. You've addressed about every electrical issue you could have and 460's generally want to run.

Does it rev well when you first start it?

 

[RivennHewn]

wmrra13,

I am working my way from the tank to the carb. I remembered your post about the filters at the carb. Once I have a tank that hold gas, I'm thinking I may even learn how to rebuild carbs. Like I need another challenge!

Perrorojo,

I tried giving it gas by pouring it down the carb. I tried to keep it running with starting fluid (a little) Nothing seemed to help. It did rev fine while it was running.

the good news is, that I'm in no hurry or time constraint. I will figure this out, and I'll learn a lot about my truck in the process.

I really appreciate all the input. Thanks again everybody!

 

[Perrorojo]

Is your alternator working? I wonder if you're seeing a voltage drop after the engine starts. I know you said you have spark at the point the engine dies but I wonder if it's too weak.

If you have good spark and air then you should be able to keep that thing running indefinitely by giving it fuel.

 

[RivennHewn]

Take your pet truck to work:


I guess it's pretty easy to pull the alt, and get it tested. That way I eliminate another possible problem.

Will still have to wait until I sort out the whole tank issue.

Meanwhile, with No. 1:

 

[Perrorojo]

Just hook a volt meter to it and see if it's producing juice. I wouldn't pull it.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Thanks James.

The leak was just a pin hole, in the only rust patch on the tank. About the size of a half dollar. I believe Ford had in the cab tanks up to 1977. From '78 on they were under the bed.

My biggest problem finding a new tank is that it's a cab and chasis, which frame is about 4" narrower than a standard PU. I don't like the idea of a tank in the cab, or outside the frame, but there aren't many options when you have all the dump bed hardware.

Still searching for a good solution.

Most commercial trucks have tanks outside of the frame, many of them right under the drivers door. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

[shedfullatools]

I would personally do a tank on one side just behind the cab and a nice toolbox mounted on the other. Tanks outside the frame are very common and rarely pose a problem of any sort

 

[matt_i]

"I have replaced the coil, but not the wires as of yet"

I have had problems in the past on vehicles not the same as yours because the spark plug wires had rubbed into each other or into some other metal piece of the engine which was prematurely grounding the spark thru a "hole" in the side of one or more plug wires. Iow the proper spark was being produced and routed but the gap thru the plug was not the path of least resistance, it was being "leaked" out somewhere else.

If you run your fingertips down the wires and feel anywhere there is a little "notch" or depression in the outer jacket of the wire, then that is the classic sign.

Most of my other high mileage vehicles I've bought rolls of 3/8" split black conduit from McMaster Carr, there is one version which is a higher temp, and run it all the way from the boot on the distributor to as close as a could get to the actual plug boot without thinkig I was going to melt it. It seems to work very well, the split conduit is very abrasion resistant.

Also, on a HEI, using the "spark plug visualizer" which is a threaded shaft with an adjustable needle point on it which simulates the spark plug, crank the engine to view the spark on one of the cylinders, a HEI should jump a 5/8" airgap under no cylinder pressure load. I'm not familiar with Ford ignitions but I feel certain they are roughly equivalent to the GM/Chevrolet of the same era.

 

[RivennHewn]

Sliver linings:

Thanks again for all your input and insight.


With the leak of the gas tank, I decided to pull the seat and the rubber floor mat.

Had to figure out how to dismantle the PTO controls first.

I'm kind of glad I took the time to take a look at the floor. While the dump truck floor is in much better shape than the 1st truck's floor, it still has a few issues I'd like to set straight.

The PO was kind of a POS.
He left the ****** cover on loose, with only a couple fasteners. This let in moisture. He also left a lot of other penetrations unsealed. The floors would have stayed wet, and rusted out.

While I take my time figuring out how much time, money and effort I want to put into the gas tank issue, I can clean up and de-rust the floor pans, get them sealed up and install some sound deadening material.

Overall, it's been a good thing that the leak happened when it did.

Ain't life grand?

 

[Toolfool]

All that work is going to make that truck more enjoyable (and reliable) to use when you're finished.

 

[brewchief]

One of these test tanks is nice for trouble shooting fuel problems, https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0032

it will gravity feed the carb so you can run it without any of the fuel system.

 

[RivennHewn]

All that work is going to make that truck more enjoyable (and reliable) to use when you're finished.

I'm in it for the long haul.

Although I'm already having a good time with my toys, I'll sure be glad when they are fully up and running and most of the big problems are behind me.

It's only a matter of time and money, right?


Thanks for the link Brew.

If I procrastinate on ordering the tank too long, I may need to go this type of option to get it running before I install the tank.

 

[RivennHewn]

Productive weekend:

Floor pans have been de-rusted/encapsulated with POR15/ painted and covered with sound deadening mat.

Not a bad weekend!

The product I used is from the big box stores, and cost about $15 for enough to do the whole floor of my truck.

I could have paid up to $120 for basically the same material if I had gone to Eastwood or used the Dynamat product. Sold in the roofing dept.

1/16" (0.067) with very good adhesion and an aluminum facing.

 

[RivennHewn]

Quick question for the experts:

The floor pan access cover for the gearbox/shifter had a seal, I assume.

I'm not having any luck finding one on the interwebs.

This was the 1st one I've ever removed, and there was no seal/gasket.

Anybody remember what type seal is supposed to be there?

Thanks

 

[readhead]

I had two of those trucks and neither one had a seal. There may have been one from the factory but not by the time I took the cover off.

 

[RivennHewn]

I had two of those trucks and neither one had a seal. There may have been one from the factory but not by the time I took the cover off.

The leak was actually from the joint between the floor and the firewall, then it trickled down the ****** cover making it look like it was the cover leaking.

Got it all sealed up now.

Made a late night run to Lowe's before they closed for the evening:

Hoping to get the ****** cover installed tomorrow, then the floor mat and the seat.

 

[RivennHewn]

Perspective:

I have always loved trucks.

When i was 13, I wanted a fast truck.

When I was 33, I wanted a truck that could haul heavy loads.

Now that I'm 53, I want a quiet truck.

Funny how things change.

Added a second layer of aluminum faced foam rubber sound insulation to the floor pans this afternoon. Hope it makes a huge difference in dB levels.

 

[James E]

You prioritize like I do. The truck won't run but you're hard at work making the cab nicer.

 

[C_F]

Perspective:

I have always loved trucks.

When i was 13, I wanted a fast truck.

When I was 33, I wanted a truck that could haul heavy loads.

Now that I'm 53, I want a quiet truck.

Funny how things change.

No kidding.

It will be interesting to see how much quieter than stock it will be with that stuff in there. Looks good!

 

[Glenn M.]

I really like that truck! Looks great.

 

[FlightParamedic]

Anybody have any thoughts on this style of tank?

This one is for an Isuzu NPR, and it's kinda $$$$$ for my budget.

Got an old beer keg laying around?

Or two? One on each side. Or cut two up and use that new welder to make one long one. Once you get some more practice that is.