'78 F350 Dually Project

[bluebolt]

Thanks again C_F and kbs2244.

Every opportunity to try something new is an opportunity to learn something new.



I do have questions about brands.

For things like the timing cover, water pump, ect. is there any real difference between brand names, Or all of them just rebadged off the same assembly line?

Make sure you order a dipstick tube with your new timing cover!

Timing chain and gear sets are a major thing on these year 460's because Ford retarded the cam timing using the crankshaft timing gear for emissions. This reduced horsepower, torque and MPG. Putting in an earlier timing set or one with 3 keyways can liven up your engine.

Since it appears you have a rebuilt engine you may already have an earlier timing set. If the little dot on the crank gear lines up perfectly with the keyway it's not retarded, if it is offset from the keyway it is retarded assuming you only have one keyway. Post up a picture when you get it apart.

As far as brand Cloyes is a long time producer of timing sets and are made in the USA. Your 1978 calls for a C3013K, I would run either the earlier "straight up" C3037 or the double roller chain C3079X which has 3 keyways in the crank gear.

 

[bluebolt]

Also your bolts look like **** because they didn't use anti-seize on them, with steel and aluminum you get galvanic corrosion, USE ANTI - SEIZE when you reassemble!

 

[C_F]

^^^ I concur with both of Bluebolt's posts above.

 

[RivennHewn]

Bluebolt,

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience/knowledge with me.
That kind of specific information really does help me when I'm considering what to do next.

One question for you, which timing chain set up do you think would be most appropriate for an engine of unknown miles/wear/condition? Should I just stay with stock, or go for "Livening it up"? I guess I should get it opened up and see what I find?

Thanks again to everybody who takes the time to help me get through this. Much appreciated.

 

[Badhabit]

For your truck, stock is fine. Just go pre 1973 stock so you get the straight up timing gear.

H

 

[Thirdyfivepickup]

One question for you, which timing chain set up do you think would be most appropriate for an engine of unknown miles/wear/condition? Should I just stay with stock, or go for "Livening it up"? I guess I should get it opened up and see what I find?

its a chain that connects the cam and crankshaft... how lively can it get???

Go stock, or maybe a Cloyes basic assembly which should be comparable to stock price wise... when its time to swap cams out is when you want to play around...

 

[RivennHewn]

Short clip of the timing chain:

 

[txvwnut]

Looks like your doing a timing chain also.

 

[Strouty]

That is just a laid back timing chain, sometimes it is a bit late, sometimes it is a bit early.

 

[RivennHewn]

That is just a laid back timing chain, sometimes it is a bit late, sometimes it is a bit early.

Sounds like my engine is on "Island Time"

Couple pics of the T-chain:

txvwnut,

I kinda had a feeling I was about to learn how to do a timing chain when I started this task.

 

[C_F]

That's not as bad as most worn out timing chains I've seen, but it would be a good idea to replace it while you're in there, for sure. The rest looks nice-n-clean in there, so that's good!

 

[bluebolt]

You have 90% of the work done, take off that camshaft bolt and fuel pump eccentric and slide the gears off and replace with the new ones!

 

[RivennHewn]

C_F, bluebolt,

I'm still waiting for all the parts and pieces to show up. I ordered everything instead of picking it up local. Nothing against the parts stores around here, just didn't want to go with no-name products.

Instead, I spent the weekend fishing out of Sekiu, Wa.
A very interesting little town. Almost more like a remote fishing village in Alaska. Everything there revolves around fishing.

4:30 AM start

Came home and started prep'n some pickled salmon.

 

[madoc1]

love it!

jim

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks Jim,

Pickling salmon, like any pickling/canning project seems to take all day.

I was up early cleaning and prepping, then getting the fillets into a brine to soak for a few hours.
Then off to the store for a few fresh ingredients.

Back home for more cleaning and sanitizing the jars.

Once everything is cleaned and prepped, it's just layering in the salmon with the onions, lemon, dill, fennel, jalapenos, capers, bay leaves, and other misc. spices into the jars.

Oh, and wash your hands about every 2 seconds.

let it all stew for a day or so, then into the fridge.

 

[RivennHewn]

Talk about dumb questions....


Looking at finding a replacement fan shroud because mine is missing.

I've always assumed that engines are centered in the vehicle.

looking at the shroud, is the radiator offset, or is the engine off center?



I've spent a few hours under the hood of these trucks, but I've never noticed things not being centered.

I'm I losing it?

 

[GirchyGirchy]

I'm I losing it?

Based purely on that question alone, yes.

 

[WoodsTruck]

I think either could be offset. Radiator to clear a steering gear box, or the engine to clear the steering column, or to allow more driver footwell clearance. Or simply to make you go "hmmm".

 

[RivennHewn]

I just sold a set of LMC floor pans I had purchased for the 1st truck I bought.
I noticed one is bigger than the other.

Driver needs more Clutch/brake/ accelerater pedal
foot room than the passengers do.

 

[C_F]

Yeah, they are offset to the right (passenger) a couple inches. For example, look at where the air cleaner stud on the carburetor is positioned versus the center line of the hood.

 

[RivennHewn]

C_F,

I usually pick up on things like this.
Wasn't until I noticed the balancer was not lined up with the center.
Funny how you can look at something 100 times and just not see it.

 

[kbs2244]

Full size Chevy vans have a passenger foot well the size of a cigar box.
Lots of room on the drivers side.

 

[RivennHewn]

Full size Chevy vans have a passenger foot well the size of a cigar box.
Lots of room on the drivers side.

I guess I'm kinda slow to the party, as I'm just now realizing that not all vehicles are symmetrical.

Who knew?????

 

[RivennHewn]

Parts are starting to flow in.

I've been very unhappy with my mirrors.

No matter how much I tighten them, they vibrate and wobble.

Been on the hunt for a pair of West Coast Mirrors. Finally found a pair of NOS Vintage Westerner Super by K-D lamp Co.

Not sure when I'll get around to installing them, but I'm pretty excited about actually getting them shipped without any damage!

I was hoping for a pair with the yellow chevrons on the backs. But these will do nicely.

 

[RivennHewn]

Timing is everything....


my crank gear mark is offset from the keyway. I lined up the marks on each gear, and removed the gear/chain.

The new one (3 way) doesn't want to line up.

Can I just turn the crank back(counterclockwise) a few degrees til they line up?

Or, should I just go back to smoking salmon?

The smell of Cherry/ Applewood smoke is filling my yard, and making it hard to work because I'm hungry.

 

[glen66]

Not an expert on these year model engines, but am sure you can rotate the crank to line up the marks which should put you at true top dead center. As previously noted these engines were retarded 4 deg from the factory for emissions, with the TC set you got this will bring the cam/crank to 0 deg. Will notice a nice bump in torque and hp when put back together.

 

[glen66]

To absolutly sure take TC set off, pull the plug on #1 cylinder, rotate crank by hand back and forth with a 6-8 dowel stuck in the spark plug hole resting on top and the piston, as your rock the crank back and forth will see the dowel rise and fall, rotate crank till the dowel is at is highest point and you have found top dead center, reinstall the TC set and the marks should line up.

Glen

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks Glenn.

With the keyway on the crank, and the positioning stud on the cam, is there anyway you can't get it on right?

It only goes on in one position, right?

Here is a short vid on where I'm at with it right now.

 

[scrumpy]

That looks like if you were to turn the crank counterclockwise just a couple of degrees it would line up both dots with the centerline of the crank and cam? Or am I seeing it wrong?

 

[bluebolt]

That looks like it might be right as far as being correctly installed. Your top gear is not straight up and down either. You could try turning it back with the big bolt to check alignment if the bolt loosens turn it the normal direction a full turn and check the alignment again.

 

[C_F]

That looks like if you were to turn the crank counterclockwise just a couple of degrees it would line up both dots with the centerline of the crank and cam? Or am I seeing it wrong?

Looks like it to me, too.

Nice score on the cool old mirrors!

 

[RivennHewn]

Thanks again guys,

I spun it around, and they lined up nicely.

I took the pic, then micro adjusted it a little more to where it's as close to perfectly aligned as my eyes will allow.

Also, No. 1 is TDC.


Received my water pump, but still waiting on the TC cover and the dip stick tube.

 

[lightn95]

To absolutly sure take TC set off, pull the plug on #1 cylinder, rotate crank by hand back and forth with a 6-8 dowel stuck in the spark plug hole resting on top and the piston, as your rock the crank back and forth will see the dowel rise and fall, rotate crank till the dowel is at is highest point and you have found top dead center, reinstall the TC set and the marks should line up.

Glen

It needs to be on the compression stroke...

 

[RivennHewn]

What the hell is this nut up to now?????

 

[RivennHewn]

It needs to be on the compression stroke...

I should have known.

I'm going to have to spin it around again, and check the stroke.

Thanks for helping me keep it all straight.


Edit:

If the marks were lined up when I took the gears off, and the marks are lined up now. Wouldn't they be in the same relation to No. 1 being TDC? I didn't roll the crank between switching gears.

 

[Lwel9226]

If the marks were lined up when I took the gears off, and the marks are lined up now. Wouldn't they be in the same relation to No. 1 being TDC? I didn't roll the crank between switching gears.

Yes...... You should be good......

Did you have any trouble finding the timing cover ???

LynnW

 

[Strouty]

Unless someone spun things on you while you weren't looking. It is always good to check TDC, not that hard either. Makes a big difference if it is on the exhaust stroke.......

 

[scrumpy]

Glueing pins for the headliner. Do you have any of the stick on sound dead mat? Even a small square will make a big difference in the sound.

If you had the engine at TDC of the compression stroke before you took out the old one and did not move the crank or cam putting in the new one you should be all set but always good to verify.

 

[Badhabit]

Just so you don't confuse yourself, I think you are on #6 compression stroke. #1 would have both dots at 12 oclock. You have it lined up properly. The crank turns twice for every turn of the cam. This is a moot point, just don't want you frustrating yourself.
H

 

[C_F]

Just so you don't confuse yourself, I think you are on #6 compression stroke. #1 would have both dots at 12 oclock. You have it lined up properly.

Huh? With #1 on TDC, the timing marks most certainly should point towards each other. The crank points at 12 o'clock, the cam at 6 o'clock...so, yes, he does have it lined up properly.
If both dots pointed at 12 o'clock, the #1 piston would be sitting at the top of the exhaust stroke.