A few testing tools compared

[robe5000]

 

[signcrafter]

Are we taking bets to see how long this thread stays open?

Hopefully it can remain a civil discusion about pros/cons and the differences.

 

[robe5000]

that would be nice,all 3 seem like useful tools, a decent discussion would be an ideal information source for a guy trying to make his mind up, I'm getting a PP3 and loadpro after christmas (maybe for christmas if santa get my list in time), if this one stays opened ill post my thoughts (that is for the ones who care about a lowly backwoods forklift mechanics opinion)

 

[signcrafter]

You'll enjoy both of them. I have both of them and said in the last thread that in my opinion they are two totally different tools that I use in different circumstances. The PPIII is nice for certain things like installing a remote starter or other aftermarket electronics. It's also nice if you need to send power to something like a cooling fan to see if it works or not. Lots of stuff the PPIII is good for. The loadpro is more for diagnostics, or more specifically finding a corroded wire. So in my opinion they both have their place and uses.

 

[Brownsfan]

Here we go. I own all 3. And use them all differently and at different times. They are all great tools that serve their purpose. If you do a lot with electrical like I do then I suggest you buy all 3. If you are a weekend tinkerer and already own a dmm get the load pro. I will be back in a little while with some pop corn. I hope dan was not run off because I think he could have been very valuable to the forum. Can anyone direct me to an automotive electrical discussion forum?

 

[ATTappman]

that would be nice,all 3 seem like useful tools, a decent discussion would be an ideal information source for a guy trying to make his mind up, I'm getting a PP3 and loadpro after christmas (maybe for christmas if santa get my list in time), if this one stays opened ill post my thoughts (that is for the ones who care about a lowly backwoods forklift mechanics opinion)

There's nothing lowly about a forklift mechanic. That's an honorable way to earn a living and I wouldn't pay attention to anybody who thinks otherwise.

You'll enjoy both those tools. Use the Power Probe as a test light and to energize light bulbs, solenoids, cooling fans (do forklifts have those?), etc. Just don't energize something that isn't supposed to be energized. Use the Loadpro to find unwanted high resistance in a circuit. Read Dan's book.

After using your new tools, I for one would like to hear your observations. While you're at it, teach us about forklifts - for example, what kind of engine is underneath the hood (or whatever it's called) of a propane-fueled forklift? Is it fuel injected, with computer control? What kind of faults are most common on forklifts? There's a lot of stuff you know that most other people don't.

 

[ATTappman]

I hope dan was not run off because I think he could have been very valuable to the forum. Can anyone direct me to an automotive electrical discussion forum?

I would like Dan Sullivan to keep posting on the forum as well.

It's not a forum, but ScannerDanner's Youtube channel is worth subscribing to. Others have mentioned it, possibly you were one of them. His videos are not about "electrical" in the sense of fixing broken or corroded wires (although he does do that in a few of them), they're automotive diagnostics case studies using a scan tool and a scope. And a test light. With a pointy tip.

Now if we could get Paul Danner to start posting here that would be a real good thing.

 

[robe5000]

There's nothing lowly about a forklift mechanic. That's an honorable way to earn a living and I wouldn't pay attention to anybody who thinks otherwise.

You'll enjoy both those tools. Use the Power Probe as a test light and to energize light bulbs, solenoids, cooling fans (do forklifts have those?), etc. Just don't energize something that isn't supposed to be energized. Use the Loadpro to find unwanted high resistance in a circuit. Read Dan's book.

After using your new tools, I for one would like to hear your observations. While you're at it, teach us about forklifts - for example, what kind of engine is underneath the hood (or whatever it's called) of a propane-fueled forklift? Is it fuel injected, with computer control? What kind of faults are most common on forklifts? There's a lot of stuff you know that most other people don't.

That was a joke, I don't consider myself lowly, I have been thinking about a few forklift posts, clearly some GJ members are quite ignorant to what involved, it's not so different from a car, daily I'm working on VW TDI, VR6,GM 2,2.4,vortec V6's, right on up to big Deutz TDC series and QSB 8.0s! All with the same sensors, fuel systems, emissions bull and ECMs as cars and trucks, topped off with fly by wire hydraulic systems and some serious mechanical lifting systems, I find myself pulling my laptop out more then my ratchets, most forklifts these days are a bit different from your buddy Bills old yellow forklift
I'll get around to posting some stuff to clarify
Also, im not from the back woods

 

[ourkid2000]

I would like Dan Sullivan to keep posting on the forum as well.

It's not a forum, but ScannerDanner's Youtube channel is worth subscribing to. Others have mentioned it, possibly you were one of them. His videos are not about "electrical" in the sense of fixing broken or corroded wires (although he does do that in a few of them), they're automotive diagnostics case studies using a scan tool and a scope. And a test light. With a pointy tip.

Now if we could get Paul Danner to start posting here that would be a real good thing.

Yeah, think about it......imagine having Dan, Paul Danner & Stick as people to bounce your questions off!

 

[richfinn]

I sent Paul Danner an e-mail inviting him to take a look.

Really enjoyed Dans new clip, I hope he sticks around

 

[bcradio]

And I post again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-by-wire

 

[kiatech]

I sent Paul Danner an e-mail inviting him to take a look.

Really enjoyed Dans new clip, I hope he sticks around

scanner danner?

 

[srmofo]

If Dan is still checking this thread I would like to ask him a few questions about the load pro.

I have a power probe3 and honestly I dont use it for much besides a jumper wire to apply voltage and/or ground, and I would say 80% of those times its to put some customers window up that 'forgot' to tell us their ************* window rolls down but not up. Occasional it gets used to power up a fan motor or solenoid but for the most part that can be taken care of through the scanner.

 

[richfinn]

And I post again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-by-wire

What are you getting at BC?

Data Transmission network not a safe area to test?

Its OK if you follow the rules, it doesn,t carry a load, so unless you isolate the physical layer from the nodes and power it independently you wouldn,t ever need to use any of those 3 tools anyway. Although you can use a DVOM and Load Pro to carry out some network testing.

That still leaves an awful lot of load carrying wiring to test.

 

[richfinn]

scanner danner?

Yep

 

[96snma]

I was fallowing the last thread but didn't get involved. I think that was way better than the last video. Showing exactly how to use the load pro and what it does. It has once job that it does well at but that doesn't take away from the others. I've got a pp3 and don't really use it for diagnostics. Its used as a test light and to power items to see if the work.

Ex installing new lights and seeing if the ground you connected is good. Seeing if after you made the 12v connection it has power

I think that both have their place and that he is better off not comparing them as they do totally different things

 

[Brownsfan]

If Dan is still checking this thread I would like to ask him a few questions about the load pro.

I have a power probe3 and honestly I dont use it for much besides a jumper wire to apply voltage and/or ground, and I would say 80% of those times its to put some customers window up that 'forgot' to tell us their ************* window rolls down but not up. Occasional it gets used to power up a fan motor or solenoid but for the most part that can be taken care of through the scanner.

Don't u love that one. Then it's your fault. Well you rolled it down now it's your problem. I would get that guy then he would want his windows tinted too.

 

[bcradio]

What are you getting at BC?

Data Transmission network not a safe area to test?

Its OK if you follow the rules, it doesn,t carry a load, so unless you isolate the physical layer from the nodes and power it independently you wouldn,t ever need to use any of those 3 tools anyway. Although you can use a DVOM and Load Pro to carry out some network testing.

That still leaves an awful lot of load carrying wiring to test.

This is the fly-by-wire I know of:

Fly-by-wire (FBW) is a system that replaces the conventional manual flight controls of an aircraft with an electronic interface.

Why do others use it in other contexts?

 

[richfinn]

If Dan is still checking this thread I would like to ask him a few questions about the load pro.

I have a power probe3 and honestly I dont use it for much besides a jumper wire to apply voltage and/or ground, and I would say 80% of those times its to put some customers window up that 'forgot' to tell us their ************* window rolls down but not up. Occasional it gets used to power up a fan motor or solenoid but for the most part that can be taken care of through the scanner.

I mostly use my PP3 for effecting entry into locked cars with the keys inside.

Or I might use it to temporarily run a supply or ground to a fuel pump with a broken/corroded wire to get it back to the workshop.

I think you just learn more quickly using a DVOM, the more you use it the better you get with it, then when you get a tricky job its second nature.

 

[richfinn]

This is the fly-by-wire I know of:

Fly-by-wire (FBW) is a system that replaces the conventional manual flight controls of an aircraft with an electronic interface.

Why do others use it in other contexts?

Yeah its everywhere in vehicles at the moment, nothing has a throttle cable anymore, steering and brakes are already up and running in prototypes.

Cars are crammed with networked systems nowadays.

 

[96snma]

I mostly use my PP3 for effecting entry into locked cars with the keys inside.

Or I might use it to temporarily run a supply or ground to a fuel pump with a broken/corroded wire to get it back to the workshop.

I think you just learn more quickly using a DVOM, the more you use it the better you get with it, then when you get a tricky job its second nature.

That's what I'm saying. I was always unsure why he compared the two because they aren't used for the same application. The dvom comes out to diagnose and find problem but when things are being installed its the pp. motor swap on my truck and installing the aftermarket rad fan. Test it works on the bench... Install and make sure it has ground... Make sure it has power then test it in the truck

It's like needle nose vs lineman pliers. Similar but different

 

[bcradio]

Yeah its everywhere in vehicles at the moment, nothing has a throttle cable anymore, steering and brakes are already up and running in prototypes.

Cars are crammed with networked systems nowadays.

So then that would be drive-by-wire I would assume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire

 

[richfinn]

So then that would be drive-by-wire I would assume.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_by_wire

Exactly, it all filters down from aircraft technology.

 

[bcradio]

Exactly, it all filters down from aircraft technology.

Ahh ok, so people just adopted the term from that since it was first used there... I was wondering why people kept using fly-by-wire in the context of automobiles.

Thanks

 

[richfinn]

That's what I'm saying. I was always unsure why he compared the two because they aren't used for the same application. The dvom comes out to diagnose and find problem but when things are being installed its the pp. motor swap on my truck and installing the aftermarket rad fan. Test it works on the bench... Install and make sure it has ground... Make sure it has power then test it in the truck

It's like needle nose vs lineman pliers. Similar but different

You understand the limitations of the PP3, not everyone does.

You can do anything a PP3 does with a DVOM including powering up components and you get to see the amp draw as a bonus

 

[robe5000]

Really enjoyed Dans new clip, I hope he sticks around

Agreed, he should have made this clip a longtime ago

 

[Skin]

You understand the limitations of the PP3, not everyone does.

bingo. I don't think he was out of line showing what the tools limitations are in a diagnostic situation. Quite a few members here talk about the PP like its a do all. All I've ever seen it good for is acting as a quick jumper.

 

[robe5000]

Exactly, it all filters down from aircraft technology.

My instructor at the time referred to it as "fly by wire", thank you for the correction

 

[richfinn]

bingo. I don't think he was out of line showing what the tools limitations are in a diagnostic situation. Quite a few members here talking about the PP like its a do all. All I've ever seen it good for is acting as a quick jumper.

Before Power Probes came along I just used a long section of twin core wire with croc clips soldered on one end and sewing pins on the other.

I,m not knocking Power Probe they build a nice quality pair of fused jump wires and the accessories are nice and easy to use, I,ve had a couple but I liked the simple PP2 better than the PP3 (the removable spike on PP3 is good so you can use a meter lead)

The only thing I use it for diagnostics wise is powering isolated wires to load them up with the load pro and the DVOM.

 

[ATTappman]

I think you just learn more quickly using a DVOM, the more you use it the better you get with it, then when you get a tricky job its second nature.

Yes, I think that's the best one-sentence piece of advice in all this discussion.

 

[Brownsfan]

Yes, I think that's the best one-sentence piece of advice in all this discussion.

That statement is why I like the load pro. Most of us use a dmm all day and the load pro makes even more useful. My dmm is what I reach for first pretty much 95 percent of the time. Just leave the load pro leases on and then u don't even have to go back to the tool box if you need to do a voltage drop test

 

[bcradio]

I have a couple of questions about the PP3. I don't own one, but was thinking about purchasing one.

What sorts of things does it power (I know fans and lights, but what else)?

What should you not try to supply power to with it?

Also it supplies power/ground. Does it do both at the same time? If so how?

Don't mean to go off topic, just curious.

 

[signcrafter]

You can do anything a PP3 does with a DVOM including powering up components and you get to see the amp draw as a bonus

Can you explain how you power up components with a DVOM?

 

[Brownsfan]

I have a couple of questions about the PP3. I don't own one, but was thinking about purchasing one.

What sorts of things does it power (I know fans and lights, but what else)?

What should you not try to supply power to with it?

Also it supplies power/ground. Does it do both at the same time? If so how?

Don't mean to go off topic, just curious.

Pretty much anything you would need to send 12v or ground too make it operate. I use it a lot when testing door lock motors and circuits trunk release circuits, wiper motors sunroof motors etc. but you have to be very careful and know exactly what you are testing and what polarity you need to send. Example of using a ground signal is testing horn function at the switch. The wire usually rests at 12v and a ground triggers the relay. Not all cars are like this so that's why you have to know what you are testing.

 

[robe5000]

Can you explain how you power up components with a DVOM?

Set your Dvom up for amps and it acts like jumper wire, I think that's what he's getting at

 

[Dereklmartin]

Yeah its everywhere in vehicles at the moment, nothing has a throttle cable anymore, steering and brakes are already up and running in prototypes.

Cars are crammed with networked systems nowadays.

Mercedes has been doing drive by wire braking for close to ten years. It's a system called sbc. It uses hydraulic fluid like a conventional brake setup but the brake pedal is just an electrical switch that turns on a pump that works the brakes.

 

[ATTappman]

I have a couple of questions about the PP3. I don't own one, but was thinking about purchasing one.

What sorts of things does it power (I know fans and lights, but what else)?

What should you not try to supply power to with it?

Also it supplies power/ground. Does it do both at the same time? If so how?

Don't mean to go off topic, just curious.

It has a 20 amp circuit breaker, so it can power anything that draws less than 20 amps.

Think of it as a test light with two wires instead of just one, and a switch. One wire is connected to battery positive, the other to battery negative. Press the switch forward, and current will flow from the battery through the positive wire, to the tip, through the circuit the tip is in contact with, and back to the battery negative post. Press the switch backward, and current will flow from the battery through the circuit the tip contacts, through the tip, through the negative wire, and back to the battery negative post. You can hook it up to a battery, put the tip on the negative post, press the switch forward, and immediately trip the breaker. Similarly, you can put the tip on the positive post, press the switch backward, and immediately trip the breaker. Contacting an engine ground, pressing the switch forward, and seeing the circuit breaker trip is the way to verify the ground is good. In one of Dan's videos he appears to be unaware that the PP3 manual describes this as the recommended way to verify a good ground, because he complains that the PP3 will flash its green LED even when the tip is against your pinky while your thumb is on a ground. He should have pressed the rocker switch forward, given himself a mild shock, and saw that the circuit breaker didn't trip.

It can also make an audible click every time the voltage crosses a threshold. So if you back probe a crankshaft sensor for example, you will hear a Geiger counter-like noise indicating that the sensor is sending a signal.

Both the PP3 and the Loadpro could really benefit from improved user manuals.

 

[bcradio]

Good info ATT, thanks

 

[Brownsfan]

I just watched the video and I am surprised at the readings from the Volt-Pro. I used it for a similar test(different circuit) but the same test. I found a corroded wire at the under hood fuse box. The tool read 12.6 when in dc volt meter mode and 9 and some change in load mode. Worked exactly as advertised. I am not saying this video is not true. Maybe the resistance on my test was higher that 5ohms. So amybe the Volt pro isnot accurate at thatlow of a resistance. So if true I am glad I bought the load pro. I did not know the load pro existed until I found this site. I am glad I have it because I use my dmm the most because it is really the safest tool for todays vehicles and for what I am testing daily

 

[Brownsfan]

And seriously can we discuss this like adults without the stupid tags at the bottomof the page.I do not want to get this thread locked because there is actulally good info without all the bickering.