A Rant About Builders

[BFBOB]

Contractor horror stories? OK. My then-girlfriend now-wife bought a house with a 3-car garage, only to find it was too short to get her '72 chevy pickup in. She called a very reputable overhead door company to lengthen it and replace two of the doors with one 16'. Supposedly reputable company subbed out the extension work to a *****, who:
1: tried to get paid completely up front.
2: didn't get building permit
3: made footings too shallow (2')
4: made footings too narrow (4")
5: made slope of new roof much too flat (1" over 4')
6: didn't flash the join to old roof; practically just butted new roll roofing against old shingles.
7: made NO overhang on addition.
8: tried to get paid again, after the prime contractor had paid him.

Result: within a year or two, the new section of roof had rotted badly, and the new door was well on the way due to no protection from rain. I ripped out the whole sorry mess of a roof extension, made all new rafters tying into the old 8" higher, added 18" of overhang, properly flashed and underlaid the join to the old shingles, shingled the extension, added a gutter, and repainted the new doors. (Well, actually she did most of the painting)

Oh, yeah, the prime contractor did do a good job installing the doors, but repeat business? NFW

So, one marriage and 26 years later, it came time to re-roof the garage. Not a single piece of wood under that extension needed replacing. So if a rank amateur can do that good a roofing job, why didn't the full time pro? Gee, could the fact that she was a single woman have anything to do with it?

 

[MoonRise]

(Although, I would drive a Abarth Fiat if it came with that hot Italian chick. :hitit

psssst, she's actually Romanian.


http://jalopnik.com/5862629/catrinel-menghia-is-the-hot-model-from-the-fiat-500-abarth-ad?tag=abarth

And also an SI swimsuit model, among other things.

http://www.askmen.com/celebs/women/models/catrinel-menghia/index.html

Oh, and also

re: garage size. Yup. You have a real-world one-car garage with room for some work/working space, as long as the vehicle is just an actual car and not a pickup truck or SUV or such, in which case the door is probably too low to get into the garage in the first place). Or a space you can (barely) cram two cars into (if they are not too big) and not much else (tools, benches, toolchests, etc, etc, etc, never mind all the 'other' real-world stuff that usually goes into a garage, such as bicycles, snowblower, etc, etc).

Rant-agree.

 

[barks]

Couple hundred $$ to add 3 ft? Assume this is a typical development where the site has a frontal garage with a house wrapped around it. Figure 3ft X 22 ft = 66sq ft additional. At $80/ft the added cost is roughly $5,000. In a development, that would probably put the houses out of the reach of half the people who bought houses originally. (A realtor may disagree, but it seems about right.)

 

[Falcon67]

$80 sq/ft is cheap. New around here for houses most people can pony up for runs $95~120 depending on the area. For really nice stuff like plastic surgeon/investment banker level, try $200+. We bought a trashed repo in 2010 at a deep discount and it was still $70 sq/ft.

 

[rafe]

Park your car in your garage? Now there is an idea! I have trouble getting my bike back out of my 30X30.....I have seen garages with just a shovel a rake and a car in them...I just don't understand how that can be....lol

 

[GarageEnvy]

With my size garage and door, sooner or later they are going to scratch a mirror, tear up the trim on the garage door, or bang sheet metal trying to get in and out of the cars. It's too tight. There is no room for error. QUOTE]

I think we agree that it's not an ideal size. However, you're pointing out that it's not feasible and I'm saying it's doable just not ideal. My first house had a 15' wide garage door. The overall width was 18' and the depth was 23'. I put a jeep cherokee and a 7' wide boat in it and still had room for a motorcycle. Now backing the boat into the hole required two people and tape on the floor. Getting the motorcycle out required removing the car and don't even think about a passenger getting out of the car. Technically it fit. But technically I could squeeze into a 36" waist pair of jeans too. That doesn't mean it's the right size. It just means it's minimum code.

Also, there are plenty of other areas in the house where compromises are made. That same house couldn't have the dishwasher and refrigerator open at the same time. I've seen bedrooms too small to fit anything more than a bed in and bathrooms that you couldn't get to the toilet without a dance around the door. It's an argument over functional utility. It's not just size, but also configuration. Most people prefer extra width. It's why the tandem style configuration is less popular. However, a guy like me or you comes along and wants to park a long boat or RV or have some equipment and all of a sudden that tandem space looks pretty good.

With all that being said, when I built my garage I used two 18' wide doors and an 8' on the last bay. I wanted plenty of room between cars for parking and the wall of the house for entry. My three kids explode out of a car like it's on fire the moment it's parked. The extra space has saved the wall and the car door.

 

[bczygan]

Yes it is the builders fault. When you buy a new house these days you don't get a choice. You either buy an already built spec house or you go into a subdivision and pick from from one of the builders canned plans. Asking for modifications to those plans is an excuse for the builder to jack up the price way beyond the actual cost of making the modifications. I had a client once that asked for a garage to be increased by about 150 sqft. This modification would not have required major changes to the house itself, only lengthing the garage. The price, 15K. $100 a sqft for empty non-HVAC space.

As for it being my fault for buying it, I didn't have a choice. The majority of the houses on the market in my price range have the same size garage or smaller. I couldn't afford new construction or a custom house. The only option would be a needle in a haystack search for a house that had a bigger garage build to order. Garage size, in terms of numbers of cars but not sqft, is tied to the price point of a house. While the sqftage of a house affects its price the actual sqftage of the garage does not as long as it has the expected number of car spaces. So the builders can make the garages smaller and smaller and sell the house for the same price as long as it is advertised to hold the same numberr cars. The savings goes in their pocket. Even worse is for house designs where the garage is integrated into the footprint instead of being built on the side. By squeezing down the garage size that space becomes square footage of the house. Of course this drives up the price of the house but doesn't increase the building costs in a realitive amount.

Regardless of all the circumstances that existed, YOU chose this house with it's garage. YOUR choice. There are always other options, including buying a home with no garage and building what you want, or finding one with a tiny garage and using that factor to get a better price and using the difference to modify it. You may be unhappy about what the realities are in the market. They are what they are. Sometimes they are an opportunity, as right now, when existing homes are priced low and those with cash can buy the best homes for less. If garage size was important, you should have made it more of a priority in the list of must haves.

That said, there are solutions. Explore them and act.

An example of too small garages is just up the alley from me. It is a frame one car garage with a bump out on the rear wall to accommodate a longer car. The bump out is actually a sloped wall with clapboards, sloped so it goes under the existing roof and overhang. Circa 1946. So it has always been. When your built environment doesn't meet your needs....change it.

 

[JimVonBaden]

$80 sq/ft is cheap. New around here for houses most people can pony up for runs $95~120 depending on the area. For really nice stuff like plastic surgeon/investment banker level, try $200+. We bought a trashed repo in 2010 at a deep discount and it was still $70 sq/ft.

Try Alexandria, VA. We bought our house in January for $245.65 a square foot.

Jim

 

[Mr_John]

Well, after looking at your garage pix a few times, I have to wonder what all the fuss is about. It looks plenty big for those 2 vehicles... look at store parking lots, the spaces often have vehicles much closer together than either vehicle is close to any other vehicle or wall in your garage. By the way, do you really need to park an older tan Mercury Sable in the garage... the newer Honda I understand, but the Blue Book on that Sable must be less than a new front clip on the Honda. Just sayin'...

The above said, obviously you're not happy with the garage, but let me give you an idea that I employ in my ONE CAR garage... yes, some of us still only have single vehicle garages and others may even have no garage at all if you can imagine. That said, what I did in my one car garage that is complete with rolling tool box, TV on pivot arm, numerous shelves, 4x8 pegboard filled w/ tools, and a 2 bicycles... I first of all fold in the mirrors all the time (although it's not absolutely necessary) and second of all I set up a 2" x 2" strip of wood that is about 3 feet long with another piece of wood running perpendicular at the end. This allows me to park my car in the exact spot where it leaves just enough room behind, in the front, and to the sides for me to use my garage while the car is in there (and it's usually in the garage). As an FYI, I just used a hammer drill and anchored the wood to the ground and it works like a charm.

As an aside, if you'd like to hose out your garage, then why don't you just purchase some 1" cement board and place it just cut out a foot or two off the bottom of your drywall. It's a fairly rough finish in the garage, anyway... and if you wanted to take the time, you could place some 12x12 tiles across the bottom and grout them in. That would create a nice aesthetic and you wouldn't have to worry as much about soaking the drywall (just watch it if you plan to use a 5 HP pressure washer or something.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Some of you guys are missing the point. This is not about garage fanatics. This is exactly about the intended use. It's a two car garage. It's advertized use is to park two cars. I don't think a Merc Sable and an Accord are overly large vehicles.

So let's imagine a two car family with my same cars, with no tools, no need for a work bench, etc. Nothing in the garage but the cars. With my size garage and door, sooner or later they are going to scratch a mirror, tear up the trim on the garage door, or bang sheet metal trying to get in and out of the cars. It's too tight. There is no room for error. You would have to be an F1 driver to hit the exact mark day after day. And people don't try. As has been pointed out, very few people with two car garages actually park two cars it. If any other part of the house worked this way, buyers would be pissed. Imagine if you had to load your dishwasher in the exact same perfect way every time or your dishes would get broken.

I have occasionaly seen the 1 1/2 car garage description in our area. Once I had a husband and wife client looking at a house with a garage described that way. The wife asked, "What's a half of a car?" The husband replyed, "It's a two car garage that won't fit two cars."

Man, I'd kill for that much room (In Chicago, lots are 25', so subtract the gangway width and the width of two walls), and I park an SUV and sedan in my garage. Before I had the SUV, I parked two sedans and a motorcycle (BMW K75C) in there, though it took angling. And I'm off an alley, so I have to back in with almost no extra room to turn. In 9 years, I never hit anything.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

When I get my next house, if the garage is too small, I'm going all out and building a 3-bay with a loft, and one of the bays will have a 10-foot high door to fit in my deuce-and-a-half, and a pit for working on the cars without need of a lift.

I think I love you.

 

[Justanoldguy]

im not really seeing the issue..... but thats just me.

And me too.
Average here is 20 x 20.

But we don't all drive big *** trucks the size of a bus.

 

[mmb617]

There aren't many people who park in their garages anymore.. they are generally a store-all for years worth of **** that people will never use. That's why garages are tiny, and almost noone gives a ****. They keep their $300 worth of junk taking up the whole garage, and park their $50k truck outside in the driveway

That's exactly what I thought. I know lots of people with garages but not too many who are actually able to park cars in them. Some can squeeze one car in their two car garage but most can't even get one in. Makes no sense to me.

We have 4 cars and 2 motorcycles in our 4 bay (52x24) garage and don't have any problem getting them in and out. But then the garage isn't used as a storage unit either.

 

[jamesemery728]

Let your wife drive straight in and you back your car in and you will be all set. I can not tell you how many **** garages we looked at with 2 car garages even smaller than yours. We had to build our own house and garage. A garage in most developments today is not really a garage but a small catch all to store a bunch of **** that your wife does not want in the house.

 

[PCO6]

... We, here on GJ are niche fanatics over garage space and do not represent the market. Architects and draft people draw what the developer tells them to. The developer tells them to draw what the market is asking for.

That is correct. I am a Planner that works for a land development company. New home construction in a typical subdivision is based on what the vast majority of the market wants ... and can afford.

The size of a garage in most municipal zoning by-laws is based on the size of a parking spot. The inside dimensions of a 1 car garage is usually 3m x 6m (9.84' x 18.28'). That doesn't sound like much to most of us but for planning purposes the main use of a garage is to park a car.

A typical house with a 2 car garage is considered to have 4 parking spots - 2 in the garage and 2 in the driveway. A lot of people purposely buy a house on the side of a street that does not have a sidewalk. It's tight but that could amount to 6 parking spots. If you only have 3 cars - PERFECT - they all stay outside and you can fill your garage with junk ... or tools and projects.

As quoted above, I do not represent the market and therefore wouldn't consider buying a house in a new subdivision.

 

[RivennHewn]

Sounds to me like a Rant about 'Buyer's Remorse'

 

[jhelrey]

I pull in at an angle

 

[pendragon1998]

Put those silly cars outside and youll have room.

We get hail storms fairly regularly. :-(

 

[26Red]

I went through the same garage size- "BS" in 2003. I looked at 50 or so new homes with a so called "2 car" garage. Most of them were too short for a full size extended cab short box pickup! You would think builders in MN would make a decent sized garage? Nope. Even on the homes over $300k, with big lots, had small "3 car" garages which were a joke. Barely enough room for two midsize cars and a "canoe"! WTF? this is Minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes, blizzards, hail storms! You would think the market demands larger garages?

Rant over.

 

[mngundog]

I would be blaming the draftsman or architect. The builder only builds what is given to them usually. The average home in Australia is a garage around 19' x 19' many new home are actually changing that to 18' x 19'!!

I know about forty people who have garages built, around me no one uses a draftsman or architect to built a simple two stall garage.

 

[Porcupine]

I envy all of you with garages bigger than a single car garage (10x20). Our house is not new, but man, any houses in the area with a double car garage are worth almost twice that of a house with a single car. I too curse the original builders wishing they had built it an extra two or four feet wide. Would make all the difference in the world. If I had tons of cash, this wouldn't be a problem, and around here, asking builders that are building new houses for modifications and upgrades cost a fortune. Since I do not park any vehicles in the garage, it makes for a decent sized workshop. I am happy with it, but still imagine what it would be like to have a larger space. Then again, I don't really feel bad when I see people putting their car up on jackstands inside their single car garage and changing tires, etc. If they can do it safely, then maybe so could I.

Cheers to builders who make "man sized" garages

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

That's not a rant about "builders", it's a rant about your minuscule garage!
If it's not to your liking you have no one to blame except yourself- you bought it!

Watch where you point that finger!

 

[jhelrey]

I went through the same garage size- "BS" in 2003. I looked at 50 or so new homes with a so called "2 car" garage. Most of them were too short for a full size extended cab short box pickup! You would think builders in MN would make a decent sized garage? Nope. Even on the homes over $300k, with big lots, had small "3 car" garages which were a joke. Barely enough room for two midsize cars and a "canoe"! WTF? this is Minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes, blizzards, hail storms! You would think the market demands larger garages?

Rant over.

Ditto... Same problem I had. But I did find an attached garage that is 24x30x12 All finished. I can keep too much stuff in it now.

 

[Mudbone]

That's not a rant about "builders", it's a rant about your minuscule garage!
If it's not to your liking you have no one to blame except yourself- you bought it!

Watch where you point that finger!

It is amazing to me that people cannot wrap their minds around the concept that you cannot buy something that is not for sale.

 

[csp]

It is amazing to me that people cannot wrap their minds around the concept that you cannot buy something that is not for sale.

Not for sale? Sure it is. You just have to look outside of what tract home builders have to offer.

To be more consistent with your point you should be saying that you can't buy something that isn't currently being built in the tract home industry.

 

[Toomanytools?]

Well it must be pick on Mudbone day. I agree most 2 car garages are too small for today's cars. That said it took you 6 years to use your garage so it must have not been too important to park the cars in there. You had visions of parking two cars in there and guess what you have two cars in there, intended purpose fullfilled! Really sounds like you have an issue with your wife's ability to drive or park as it may be. You might want to get her some training on parking in small spaces.
People get all hung up on having "Stuff", I need more room to put my stuff, I need more stuff to feel important. That garage looks great there is no "Stuff" except that extra freezer and refrigerator which you need for more stuff. If that refer is in the garage the kitchen must be too small to!
If your in the real estate market you should have know garages are too small, and also that there is no money in making them a bit bigger. The three rows of brick around the garage no money in it for the developer just so one guy can say "oh good I can hose out the garage".
But again I agree most garages are too small, I'm just thankful I have a garage and cars to park in there. Have a good one.

 

[logical]

As far as basic modern non-custom builder spec 2 car garages go, I still think the OP has one of the biggest I've ever seen.

I parked a full size pickup and a Cadillac STS in a much narrower space for 6 years.

 

[camarotoolman]

Hell, I have a 9" door and 12' between posts and the wife still parks so close to the left post the door can;t open much!

 

[monkeyplasm]

LOL at people suggesting that its preferable to contort themselves around the space instead of the space around themselves.

 

[logical]

LOL at people suggesting that its preferable to contort themselves around the space instead of the space around themselves.

Actually, i think the common thread in what people are saying is that 1)garages are sometimes small, 2)if you don't want a small garage then you should buy a big garage

 

[JimVonBaden]

Not for sale? Sure it is. You just have to look outside of what tract home builders have to offer.

To be more consistent with your point you should be saying that you can't buy something that isn't currently being built in the tract home industry.

I'm pretty sure many of us do not want to pony up for a custom built house, or deal with contractors, just for a larger garrage. I think you are missing his point, or just being argumentitive.

Jim

 

[csp]

No, I was clarifying his point. I didn't miss anything, nor was I being argumentative.

To say that homes with larger garages are not available for sale is incorrect. Whether someone cares to pony up for a custom built house is irrelevant to that statement.

The fact is that most people buying a new home are stuck with tract home builders and it's the tract home builders are the ones that offer the tiny garages. There's nothing argumentative about that statement or inconsistent with what the OP was trying to say. He cast a net that was too broad though with the statement that larger garages aren't available.

 

[JimVonBaden]

By that logic anything can be bought, but I thought his statement made sense in context. At least I wasn't confused by it.

Jim

 

[csp]

It made sense in context to me also. A lot of people making comments in this thread are missing the context though.

 

[Kny21]

learn to back the car on the right in.. screw the passenger doors and park 'em tight.