A.S.F. & T. Co.

[Private Lugnutz]

I found this double bow trimmers'/upholsterer's/saddler's punch at the flea market today. I have a small collection going, different sizes, mainly Kraeuter, Osborne, and a few offbrands. It was too rusty to identify the maker on the spot. After cleaning, I can see that it's marked "[A.S.F.&T. CO.]" on one tang and "[ELIZABETH, N.J.]" on the flip side of the tang.

Does anyone have any insight into that acronym?

I am guessing the F. & T. might be Forge and Tool, like Utica Drop Forge & Tool, and they actually used "U.D.F.&T. Co." as an acronym in their branding and markings.

But I can't match A.S.F.&T. Co. up with anything available on the GJ Vintage U.S. Mfgrs list, Tools Archive or Alloy Artifacts, and some initial searches have come up nil.

---

 

[SuperCat]

I have one very similar to yours with the same markings. Mine has a "C 1" on one side. The size is approximately 5/8". I believe they are called an "arch punch" and are used for mostly for leather and other soft materials. I picked up mine at a flea market for a buck with the intention of using it for gaskets and plastic, but really haven't needed it.

Here's a link to another brand with a description of use:
https://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/tools/tools/#archpunches

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yeah, same thing, SuperCat. Double bow punch is an older term. And yes, they will cut a hole in leather, canvas/duck, and vinyl, and I have used them on tin with a good backing.

The size marking on mine is tough to read and I haven't measured it yet.

With only initials it's difficult to use search engines to look it up.

 

[humber2]

Atchison Santa Fe and Topeka would be my guess

 

[d42jeep]

That was my immediate response too. My wife pointed out that the railroad was actually named Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe and I couldn’t argue the point. The are two locomotives from that railroad at the California State RR museum in Sacramento.
-Don

 

[DadsTools]

I believe you are looking for the American Swiss File & Tool Co. of Elizabeth NJ.

 

[DadsTools]

Here is a link to an eBay listing for a catalog that the seller says includes punches and chisels.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-S...th-N-J-Catalogue-ca-1915-/231120319036?_ul=AR

I knew the name was familiar, and had found it some time ago researching old files and chisels found in a cache of woodworking tools from the early 1900s.

 

[tym]

The GJ hive mind at it's finest!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice shot, DadsTools!

You're going to laugh (I did, anyway, right after I kicked myself), and I will probably take some ribbing from my WWII collector buddies. I compiled and actively maintain/update a list of US Mfgrs who I have verified through at least one of two sources as US Ordnance Dept Suppliers during WWII. The list is in alphabetical order. One guess who the first name on the list is!

You can see the list here if you're interested.

In my defense, despite the "Tool" ("T") in their name, I have put them strictly in the file room in my mind, and seizing on "Forge & Tool" for the "F. & T." didn't help undo that erroneous confinement.

Now I am doubly glad I grabbed this cutting punch. Thanks!

 

[DadsTools]

I don't know if it would have been so natural to connect the initials and the full name in your mind offhand. It's certainly not a hard line mechanic's tool, and so would not be mentally filed in the same place. "American Swiss File" is an oxymoron at first glance and certainly counter-intuitive.

As I mentioned, I had seen the initials before in my research on a hoard of carpenter's tools from the early 1900s I acquired summer of 2106. The mark was on a wood chisel IIRC, few of the tools were in the mechanical lineup. Learned a lot about Stanley hand planes from that lot!

Anyway, I was happy to provide the clue. Amid the group of very schooled vintage tool experts in here, it's hard to find any undiscovered continents to explore.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...it's hard to find any undiscovered continents to explore.

Hold that thought. I'm still catching up from yesterday. One more Whozit thread to come.

 

[DadsTools]

Sometimes experience in other fields can be useful. I recently identified a whatzit in another thread that no one could recognize as an old fish scaler/skinner from my background in fishing tackle collectibles, having even published a book in that field.

BTW, just as an amusing aside, the most I personally used these kinds of punches was in......the pipe organ business! Well into the 20th century, mechanical pipe organs (.i.e., those in which pressing a key activated a mechanism instead of an electromagnetic switch) were 'tracker' organs. Except for having a power blower instead of the kids in the basement pumping a giant bellows, these were still made with centuries-old technology. The mechs comprised strips of basswood connecting wood blocks that looked like right angles and mounted on pins so they could pivot. The connecting hardware was a brass rod with wood screw-like threading over much of its length and short right angle length at the other. The end of the tracker was trimmed, the right angle was pressed through the strip at the correct location, and then was secured with waxed thread wrapping much like you'd wrap a single-foot line guide on a fishing rod. The threaded rod was passed through holes in the ends of the blocks having extended recessed channels to allow the rod travel space as the block was pivoted while the organist pressed the keys on the manual.

Here's the thing; the rods were held onto the blocks with round leather 'nuts' having a hole in the center by which it was threaded onto the rod. Talk about blisters (sorry, no wrenches of any kind for this)! You'd have to punch these out of thick leather, hence the use of the round punches. You'd have to then adjust the thousands of these (remember, there was a tracker mech for each key and branching off to each different rank of pipes) so that each key had the correct "pluck" for the organist. I remember being assigned to the crew replacing the guts of a 1905 Bates & Culley outside Phila.

OK, I'm finished now.

 

[d42jeep]

Nice shot, DadsTools!

You're going to laugh (I did, anyway, right after I kicked myself), and I will probably take some ribbing from my WWII collector buddies. I compiled and actively maintain/update a list of US Mfgrs who I have verified through at least one of two sources as US Ordnance Dept Suppliers during WWII. The list is in alphabetical order. One guess who the first name on the list is!

You can see the list here if you're interested.

In my defense, despite the "Tool" ("T") in their name, I have put them strictly in the file room in my mind, and seizing on "Forge & Tool" for the "F. & T." didn't help undo that erroneous confinement.

Now I am doubly glad I grabbed this cutting punch. Thanks!

A person would have to be really insensitive to tease you about checking every other internet resource before checking your own! I can’t imagine anyone doing that.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Snerk.

 

[twertsy]

Snerk.

Any of these trademarks present on it? http://toolarchives.com/trademark-browser?name_op=contains&name=swiss&=Apply

I have tons of that style punch.......Haven't gotten around to checking the brands out yet.

 

[twertsy]

Here's some Greg. Interesting all these are made in NJ. ASF&T, Kreauter and C. S. Osbourne......,all the same style.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Any of these trademarks present on it?

Nope. Just the markings indicated in my first post.

I have tons of that style punch.......Haven't gotten around to checking the brands out yet.

I don't have tons, but I do have at least one between 1/4" and 1", and I do have some interesting ones.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's some Greg. Interesting all these are made in NJ. ASF&T, Kreauter and C. S. Osbourne......,all the same style.

Double-bow. Smaller sizes are usually single bow. I'll dig some of my more interesting ones out. Are those size markings on the A.S.F.&T. CO? Or the TM's you were asking me about? I have a mark that is indiscernible due to the box rot mine has suffered. I just figured it was a size marking.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Pic 1: Trio of Kraeuter double-bows, 13/16", 7/8" and 1/2", all from different production eras.
Pic 2: Braunsdorf-Mueller double-bow, 1/2"
Pic 3: Close-up of the "((B) M (CO))" logo
Pic 4: Bemis & Call Hardware & Tool Company single-bow, #10 (1/4")
Pic 5: Close up of "Bemis & Call H & T CO" branding

EDIT: I suppose we should've started a dedicated thread. Trimmer's Punches, or Upholsterer's Punches or "Leather Punches", which is too narrow, but probably the most recognizable colloquial term. The only threads I could find on the subject was invariably someone with a whatzit thread. Maybe I'll just change the thread title for easier future finding.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

NOS Osborne, 15/16" and 9/16", with a mini catalog/brochure inside each box, not quite yet vintage at only 44 years old (1974).

 

[DadsTools]

I suppose we should've started a dedicated thread. Trimmer's Punches, or Upholsterer's Punches or "Leather Punches", which is too narrow, but probably the most recognizable colloquial term. The only threads I could find on the subject was invariably someone with a whatzit thread. Maybe I'll just change the thread title for easier future finding.

I'm not sure the thread needs to change names. It's an important entry for someone else encountering a ASF marked tool. Plus we know that they made all kinds of tools, not just these. So the reference thread is of value on its own.

Perhaps starting a second thread for punches may make sense.

I think the fact there's so little info on GJ is because it's kind of a ho-hum tool in the mechanics' world. Once the whatzit question is answered, it's like, "Oh, it's not really anything then. Thanks guys."

Just like there's a community that focuses on woodworking using only vintage tools, there's probably a similar vintage leathercraft community for whom these might hold more interest than that of a passing curiosity.

 

[BuffettFan]

That was my immediate response too. My wife pointed out that the railroad was actually named Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe and I couldn’t argue the point. The are two locomotives from that railroad at the California State RR museum in Sacramento.
-Don

There was a pretty famous dragbike by that name as well.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

There was a pretty famous dragbike by that name as well.

Named after the RR.

Love this from a BANGshift.com tribute to Russ Collins when he died back in 2014!

"Turning the crazy knob straight to 11, Collins designed and built a three engined, nitro burning Honda powered bike that was called the, “Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe” the name derived from a railroad line. This bike was the first to run into the seven second zone for a motorcycle (literally a minute before the Hog Slayer did it) which happened in Ontario, California in 1973. Riding the machine for three years, Collins became known around the world because it was incredibly fast…when it wasn’t trying to kill him.”
Full article here.

Thanks for the tip, BuffettFan. I was an enduro nut as a kid at that time, so I never heard of Collins or the bike. I had to look it up.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are my punches. Mostly Kraeuter with one Osborne. I also have a couple of this other style.
-Don

 

[twertsy]

Dang, lots of nice examples there Greg!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have a bunch of double-bow leather punches, but this - a 3/8" C.S. Osborne & Co., found at the flea market this morning - is the first I have seen with a tapered handle. I like it, and the end makes for a nice striking surface.

 

[elidas]

BTW, just as an amusing aside, the most I personally used these kinds of punches was in......the pipe organ business! Well into the 20th century, mechanical pipe organs (.i.e., those in which pressing a key activated a mechanism instead of an electromagnetic switch) were 'tracker' organs.

I was VERY distantly associated with pipe organs when I was a kid. They are truly fascinating and marvelously complex,

 

[d42jeep]

Found another of the American Swiss File & Tool Co. of Elizabeth NJ punches. Hopefully it will look better after de-rusting.
-Don

 

[RTM]

I love it when threads from before my time here get resurrected. I had a small mixed herd of these punches, gave them away when I got a changeable tip set. I have since rebuilt the mixed herd, Osborne and Johnson the only NJ makers currently

Some ASF&T files in the stash tho, not sure how marked right now.

 

[d42jeep]

Found another of the American Swiss File & Tool Co. of Elizabeth NJ punches. Hopefully it will look better after de-rusting.
-Don

Sometimes removing the rust just shows how pitted the tool actually is. At least it’s still functional.
-Don

 

[MisterEd]

A.S.F.& T. Co. (American Swiss File & Tool Co.) Arch Punch, 1/2 Inch

 

[four.cycle]

^ There's a guy in Steilacoom who's got one of those for sale. HERE