Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT A trip back from the edge.

[Vieux]

Vieux, is that solid or hollow tube? I don’t like the inconsistencies in my bends, so now plan my is to make a jig similar to what I have, just for the entire axle.


½, thanks. I’m very flattered, especially from you.

It's a solid metal rod. We should try the hollow tube.

 

[xtremek]

I packed my hollow with sand and then heated it. Still working out the bugs.

 

[Vieux]

I packed my hollow with sand and then heated it. Still working out the bugs.

These are two good ways. Very strong heating (up to red metal) allows you to make a smooth bend without sand

 

[xtremek]

How do you make a bend in your flat stock? You see how I do it. Got a little bit more done on the wagon.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Tube bending is as much art as it is science. In past lives I sold steel tubing and fabricated steel tube parts... Packing with sand helps, but you have to pack it really tight and there are some guidelines for bend radius to tube OD/wall. Be careful when heating the tubing. Going to red hot starts to anneal it and weakens the overall strength.

You can pick up a HF tubing bender and mod it to be more like Vieux's setup. Lard is very good lubricant for tube bending too. It helps prevent galling which will cause other issues or amplify oil canning and ripples in the finished bend.

 

[xtremek]

Tube bending is as much art as it is science. In past lives I sold steel tubing and fabricated steel tube parts... Packing with sand helps, but you have to pack it really tight and there are some guidelines for bend radius to tube OD/wall. Be careful when heating the tubing. Going to red hot starts to anneal it and weakens the overall strength.

You can pick up a HF tubing bender and mod it to be more like Vieux's setup. Lard is very good lubricant for tube bending too. It helps prevent galling which will cause other issues or amplify oil canning and ripples in the finished bend.

That's great information. I'm pretty sure I overheated the steel, but for what I'm using it for, I should still be ok.

 

[rmalkow2]

Hey, really nice job on the wagon project and the precise details you're making on the mill and lathe just add those little touches that will set it apart from average. You're giving me ideas on how to finish my own wagon project that has languished for quite a while.

Bob

 

[rixtrix1]

Neat idea for the wagons. I'm making side rock rails for Jeep Cherokees. I just need access to one for a day to make a jig for the frame mounting arms to weld it all together, plus a "free" day in which to do it. They say "Time is what you make it", but I don't have a jig for that , either.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

That's great information. I'm pretty sure I overheated the steel, but for what I'm using it for, I should still be ok.

If you have any other questions, shoot me a PM.

I used to have to bend prototypes for custom hard line assemblies on site at customer's locations so I got really good at using a hand-held tubing bender and a conduit bender to bend tubing. Those first prototypes were then 3D scanned to be converted into data for the CNC tube benders. The CNC'ed first revisions were then test fit and tweaked to get the two ends of the tubes "locked" in 3 dimensional space and any critical dimension points were marked on the revision with a paint pen. The second rev almost always went into production without any additional tweaks.

I have some more resources for you if these wagons take off for you and you need to produce more of them quickly.

 

[xtremek]

Robin and I took a quick vaca to Branson, Mo over a long weekend. We didn’t do one of the tourist traps. We got there Friday at 3am. When we woke up, we moseyed over to the Laura Ingels Wilder houses.

 

[xtremek]

Saturday we headed to Sparks in the Ozarks car/truck show. A few nice rides and a ton of information. Sunday it was off to Wilson Creek battlefield.

 

[xtremek]

A few more rides from the show.

 

[xtremek]

s'more

 

[xtremek]

Monday, we left Branson around 7am, stopped at Classic Car Studio (Speed is the New Black) and then the Arch. Left St Louis around 1:30 and made it home about 9:15 beating Goggle Maps by 45 minutes (cruise set at 86mph). What a crazy weekend.

 

[rmalkow2]

Looks like you had a busy but fun long weekend. Was there much to see at Classic Car Studio? I often wonder about these car show shops and how much you can really see if you go there.

 

[1/2 Cup]

xtremek nice rides, thank you for sharing

 

[sublime68charger]

Thanks for all the pics from the car shows!

 

[jon72vega]

xtremek,
Cool cars and trucks!
Thanks for sharing the pictures!

 

[xtremek]

You're welcome gents. I went because I've been looking for parts for my cabover. Sadly the only swap meet person there was selling used parts from an old Toyota truck build.

Looks like you had a busy but fun long weekend. Was there much to see at Classic Car Studio? I often wonder about these car show shops and how much you can really see if you go there.

This is the second "show" shop I've been to, and both have been disappointing. I went to Ektensive Metal in Houston and could only look through the gate.

CCS was a little better. The back end of the showroom was where they do the wet sand/polish work on the cars, so I got to talk to one of the guys who works there (not someone on the show). Also, as you see from the show, most of the building is at loading dock level, so I could walk up to the different docks and look in. I get it, insurance, but still.

At Brizio's, they let me walk around and stick my nose in every nook and cranny. That was WAY COOL.

 

[quietsailor]

I knew I had left off reading your thread a while but man -- I had to go back as far as you buying the lathe to start

You asked a question about why carbide bits don't work well with your lathe and I think no-one answered you; smaller lathes can twist and cause chatter a lot. Carbide is brittle and the chatter from the lathe tends to snap off the tip of the carbide. HSS doesn't have this problem so it's better to use HSS. If your doing odd jobs on the lathe you are better off using and grinding your own HSS anyway; whenever you need an oddball thread form for a once off job you will be able to grind it yourself.

If you really, really want to go down the engineering rabbit hole of grinding HSS I follow another forum called the hobby machinist and one person there has taken the time to write a huge thread about grinding HSS, also on post #657 another person has collected all those posts into a word doc for people to read. It's a HUGE thread but very informative, they try to explain why HSS is ground the way it is in easy to understand language. Here is the thread about Grinding HSS on the HobbyMachinist.com

I don't want to add the word doc on here as it isn't my work and I feel that if I upload it here I am taking credit for work I didn't do - sorry,I know it makes more work for people as you need to join to download that word doc but me uploading it here just feels ...... wrong. I can't explain it

 

[xtremek]

quietsailor,I'm glad you survived the trip to the present, I hope it wasn't too painful. Thanks for the link, when I get to work tomorrow, been dealing with a cold, I'll print it off. I hope I do better with lathe bits than I do with drill bits.

 

[xtremek]

Just finished most of the fab work on the Woody Wagon. I finished the tie rods. To get them centered using a 4 jaw chuck, I drew a line as my baseline sides, zeroed that in, then turned the hex stock 90 and zeroed that in. What a pain. And as you can see, there are two taps in the picture, one left hand, and one right hand thread. Trying hard to do this right.

So I’m looking for your opinion on a couple of things. Should I add a trailer/wagon hitch to this one as well? What color should I paint the frame? Does anyone know where I can get that size cooler (it’s a Coleman) in red? Should I restore the wood?

 

[xtremek]

My wife, the smarter/better half (I’m the crazier half) took me to Atlanta and we did the MLKJ thing. I’m not much on museums, but we spent 2 ½ hours on the National Park, his birthplace/store, the original church, and the foundation reflecting pool. Realistically, I could have spent another hour there. I cried so much, my eyes were sore. Make sure you read the plaques in the pics.

 

[xtremek]

I heard a huge ruckus outside the hotel, so I got dressed and went down to see the Veterans Day Parade, it was HUGE. Very cool. On my way back to the hotel, I walked past the park where there's a ton of noise and a bunch of a people. What it turns out to be is Lady T (ladythomeless.com) throwing a "party" for the homeless of Atlanta. Food, toiletries, clothes, a hair cut, and a hot meal. It was a nice way to spend a Saturday morning.

 

[Bob Heine]

Kirk, I think a hitch on a hot rod wagon is the cherry on top. That steering setup looks better than my daily driver -- nicely done.

I can't tell from the photos what size cooler that is but if it's the 6-can size, Kohls has them:

https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-1790108/coleman-6-can-cooler.jsp?skuid=95419597&ci_mcc=ci&utm_campaign=OUTDOOR%20RECREATION&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=google&utm_product=95419597&CID=shopping15&utm_campaignid=196835012&pid=googleadwords_int&af_channel=CSE&gclid=CjwKCAiA5qTfBRAoEiwAwQy-6TEuj2EQs4tJDACjOdx7gFkxnprzK2WczCrQL3lRH_T7Uq9cojeWqxoCch8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

It looks like you had a memorable visit to Atlanta.

 

[xtremek]

Thanks for the compliment and the info, that's the right cooler, Bob. And Atlanta was mixed. Thursday was pretty cool (MLKJ visit), Friday sucked (cold, miserable rain), and Saturday rocked. All in all not bad.

 

[jon72vega]

Just finished most of the fab work on the Woody Wagon. I finished the tie rods. To get them centered using a 4 jaw chuck, I drew a line as my baseline sides, zeroed that in, then turned the hex stock 90 and zeroed that in. What a pain. And as you can see, there are two taps in the picture, one left hand, and one right hand thread. Trying hard to do this right.

So I’m looking for your opinion on a couple of things. Should I add a trailer/wagon hitch to this one as well? What color should I paint the frame? Does anyone know where I can get that size cooler (it’s a Coleman) in red? Should I restore the wood?

Kirk,
That's some awesome work on the wagon!

 

[xtremek]

Thanks Jon. Hearing compliments from the gang here on GJ is very cool.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Kirk,
That's some awesome work on the wagon!

What Jon said

 

[xtremek]

From the three of you, I call that high praise. Thanks 1/2.

 

[Grumblebum]

That's some pretty fancy tie rods there kirk they look great.

Black frame. Not sure about the wood, I guess it depends if you are after a new or old look. Maybe get the red cooler and sit in there and then decide.

cheers GB

 

[xtremek]

Thanks for the compliment and advice. Now I'm trying to figure out if I should go gloss, semi-gloss, or flat black.

 

[rmalkow2]

Great job on the wagon! It has the right stance for sure and I love the detail and time you put into the steering rods and front axle. I see you got a tip on finding the red cooler from Bob H. I have a similar one in red so I'm sure they still sell them.
My votes for colors: Frame in satin black, wood wagon just satin clear over the existing, wheels in red with a pin stripe circle inside.

Maybe fab up a simple prop for the handle to rest on so it does not beat up the edge of your new cooler.

Overall very cool and fun project!

Bob

 

[xtremek]

I appreciate the kind words Bob. You pushed me over the edge. The decision is to go satin black frame and satin clear over the wood. I'm staying with the white wheels, but I may go with some pinstriping on them. And I do like the idea of a handle prop. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[sublime68charger]

Great work

I vote flat black on the frame!

 

[xtremek]

Thanks for dropping by Sub. You've been missed.

 

[Strouty]

The wagons look great and I think a black frame would be classy. I think I threw a red coleman cooler away, but you wouldn't have wanted it, there was stuff in it from ten years ago. I bet you can guess where I found it.

If you had a three jaw chuck would centering have been easier?

 

[xtremek]

Thanks Strouty. Yeah, I'd have passed on the cooler. I think most 3 jaw chucks are self centering, so yes, I think it would have been easier.

 

[Strouty]

You probably don’t think much about centering a hole on a hex until you need to.

 

[xtremek]

You're right, machining to me makes me think of things differently. Vieux and Robert (MP&C) make me look at everything from new angles.