?? About air lines in shop

[PoorUB]

But that was not the question, was it?

I thought it was a discussion. Having been through a number of installations I find interesting.

Assuming a system is piped correctly, I would say no, I (generally) do not see any value in having multiple drains.

Perhaps you were lucky!

One shop I worked the mains were slopped away from the compressor. Every drop came off the top of the main and elbowed back down. Every drop had a drip leg with a drain. In the morning we would turn on the compressor and walk the shop and drain the drip legs and there was some moisture in all of them. It may have been a few drips, or to the end of the line had a 90 elbow pointing down and it had a bunch of water in it every day.

We also had a huge cooler made of black pipe that wound it's way up the wall. This was on two 10 HP compressors.

My own shop had the main draining away from the compressor and a drain at the end. There was always a bunch of water at the end. Every day of two I would open the end of the main and let it blow and it would alawys blow out a bunch of moisture.

IMO, I would rather have the water drain in the direction of air flow.

 

[PoorUB]

Oh, to add, I often wonder why these manufacturers of air line systems do not make a fitting that will pull of the top of the pipe and then turn 180 degrees back down. Restricts air flow perhaps? I would prefer to pull air off the top of the main.

 

[mogandave]

Perhaps you were lucky!

As the saying goes, the harder I work, the luckier I get

One shop I worked the mains were slopped away from the compressor. Every drop came off the top of the main and elbowed back down. Every drop had a drip leg with a drain. In the morning we would turn on the compressor and walk the shop and drain the drip legs and there was some moisture in all of them. It may have been a few drips, or to the end of the line had a 90 elbow pointing down and it had a bunch of water in it every day.

And I stand by what I said:
Assuming a system is piped correctly, I would say no, I (generally) do not see any value in having multiple drains.

We also had a huge cooler made of black pipe that wound it's way up the wall. This was on two 10 HP compressors.

That's hilarious

My own shop had the main draining away from the compressor and a drain at the end. There was always a bunch of water at the end. Every day of two I would open the end of the main and let it blow and it would alawys blow out a bunch of moisture.

And had the main drained back to the tank, you would not have had all that water.

IMO, I would rather have the water drain in the direction of air flow.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[mogandave]

Oh, to add, I often wonder why these manufacturers of air line systems do not make a fitting that will pull of the top of the pipe and then turn 180 degrees back down. Restricts air flow perhaps? I would prefer to pull air off the top of the main.

Air should come off the top of the pipe and 180 down. Assuming no one makes a specific fitting to do it, I would guess is because the distance of the drop from the main varies greatly.

If you have a tee pointing up anywhere in a shop, you can put a drop virtually anywhere in the shop with two nineties and pipe.

 

[PoorUB]

As the saying goes, the harder I work, the luckier I get

And I stand by what I said:
Assuming a system is piped correctly, I would say no, I (generally) do not see any value in having multiple drains.

That's hilarious

And had the main drained back to the tank, you would not have had all that water.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Why would water drain against air flow better than with air flow? I would like to know the science behind that.

 

[PoorUB]

If you have a tee pointing up anywhere in a shop, you can put a drop virtually anywhere in the shop with two nineties and pipe.

Umm, really?

 

[mogandave]

Umm, really?

Absolutely

 

[mogandave]

Why would water drain against air flow better than with air flow?

I never said water would drain against air flow better than with it. Again, what I said was: Assuming a system is piped correctly, I would say no, I (generally) do not see any value in having multiple drains.

I would like to know the science behind that.

Gravity

 

[PoorUB]

Absolutely

I would have never guessed!

 

[mogandave]

I would have never guessed!

Why guess? Just pencil it out.

 

[csp]

Is moisture more likely to condense and drop out of the airflow when it's cooler or warmer (rhetorical question)?

And is that air warmer in the tank or further away from the tank (another rhetorical question)?

Answer both questions correctly and you'll realize that there is value to having additional drains located downstream from the tank. Even in the dry climate I live in moisture is found in my additional drops/drains when the compressor runs for long periods like when using the blast cabinet. A fair amount makes it into the moisture filter attached to the blast cabinet as well.

You can't have too many places to try to stop the moisture from making it to the exit of the air system. It's akin to having too many electrical outlets in a garage.

 

[Citation]

Question that I haven't seen discussed here: is there any reason not to just use air hose, placed along or behind the walls/ceilings, instead of the plastic/metal lines mentioned?

It's not ideal but a number of people do just that. I've done that in my tiny garage but my air needs are limited. I did it mostly because, with all the stuff packed into the small garage I it's a pain to drape an air hose from the compressor to out the door. My compressor has two outlets so one goes to the hose that ends near the car door. The second outlet is in the opposite corner of the garage where the compressor sits. This works nicely for airing tires and using the blow gun. The flow restriction becomes obvious when I use the impact wrench.

I see several downsides to the hose method.
1. It's not good if moisture in your air is a problem. As others note, the rubber or PVC hoses don't pull heat out of the air as well.
2. A normal hose is point to point. Most people who setup air lines want more than just one drop. Yes, you can cut into the hose to add drops but that increases leak risks etc.
3. The hoses and couplers are more restrictive than hardlines. My setup uses 3/8th hose with standard Milton M connectors. It's basically adding a second hose to any run. Thus I do get more pressure loss when using my impact plugged into the remote outlet (end of the 50' hose). vs coming off the compressor. This can be somewhat mitigated by using larger diameter hose but then my cost goes up.
4. I don't have as much faith in the long term reliability of an air hose vs say soldered copper lines.
5. People on garage forum will make fun of you for such a low buck installation.

Anyway, if you needs are limited and the flow restrictions aren't a concern then a hose is a cheap way to get a "drop" to the other side of the garage.

 

[mogandave]

Is moisture more likely to condense and drop out of the airflow when it's cooler or warmer (rhetorical question)?

And is that air warmer in the tank or further away from the tank (another rhetorical question)?

Answer both questions correctly and you'll realize that there is value to having additional drains located downstream from the tank. Even in the dry climate I live in moisture is found in my additional drops/drains when the compressor runs for long periods like when using the blast cabinet. A fair amount makes it into the moisture filter attached to the blast cabinet as well.

You can't have too many places to try to stop the moisture from making it to the exit of the air system. It's akin to having too many electrical outlets in a garage.

Is condensate more likely to run uphill or downhill (rhetorical question)?

Is condensate more likely to making it to your drops if the drops are uphill or downhill (rhetorical question)?

With all your additional drops, how is it you're getting all that water in the trap before your blast cabinet (rhetorical question)?

Answer all three questions correctly and you'll realize how pointless additional drains are in a well piped system.

 

[csp]

Is condensate more likely to run uphill or downhill (rhetorical question)?

You realize that not every setup allows the tank to be the lowest point, right?

Is condensate more likely to making it to your drops if the drops are uphill or downhill (rhetorical question)?

See above

With all your additional drops, how is it you're getting all that water in the trap before your blast cabinet (rhetorical question)?

Did anyone say that all water would be eliminated? Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

Answer all three questions correctly and you'll realize how pointless additional drains are in a well piped system.

The proof says otherwise and again, not every shop allows what you apparently think is the only way to plumb an air system. There's more than one way to skin a cat, which is pretty obvious to those of us with the slightest bit of thought outside of our own little world.

 

[whateg01]

Did anyone say that all water would be eliminated? Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?

Neither is admitting when he/she/they is wrong. Probably 16 years old and knows it all.

 

[csp]

Neither is admitting when he/she/they is wrong. Probably 16 years old and knows it all.

It is amazing how some will dig in and double down in that situation.

By god, I'm going to convince somebody eventually! lol

 

[F-22]

At the factory we mainly just use 12mm pneumatic hoses (from Festo or SMC), some are over a decade old and they seem to hold up. I'm thinking about using them at home too. Makes it really easy to splice or extend them (with the festo fittings...). Seems to be lots of no-name chinese copies of those fittings but I assume those don't hold up nearly as well (even SMC seems a bit lacking sometimes).

 

[brownbagg]

i just use a 20 ft air hose

 

[Shovelhead]

i just use a 20 ft air hose

Love it!
Hahaha

I got two 50 footers

 

[Wrench97]

Last one I ran was 3/4" Synflex Air brake tubing with 5/8" drops to 1/2" pipe elbows for quick connects.
Easy to run, mount and doesn't leak.

 

[mogandave]

Last one I ran was 3/4" Synflex Air brake tubing with 5/8" drops to 1/2" pipe elbows for quick connects.
Easy to run, mount and doesn't leak.

If I only have one quick-connect on a drop, I like to point it down. Much easier on the hoses and it stays drier.

 

[whateg01]

If I only have one quick-connect on a drop, I like to point it down. Much easier on the hoses and it stays drier.

It stays drier because every time you use a tool, you blow the line out.

 

[mogandave]

It stays drier because every time you use a tool, you blow the line out.

Funny how that works, yes?

 

[racecougar]

Funny how that works, yes?

Not funny if you're painting, sandblasting, plasma cutting...

 

[mogandave]

Not funny if you're painting, sandblasting, plasma cutting...

I think it safe to assume any painting, sandblasting, plasma-cutting, CNC equipment and whatnot is going to have a dedicated water-trap.

How's that C-10?

 

[racecougar]

After what's happened in this thread, I wouldn't consider anything safe to assume.

That dedicated water-trap will have a better chance of capturing the last bit of moisture if you have a trap/drain at the drop ahead of it.




Which one?

 

[NakeDiesel]

I used black pipe for most of my runs in the shop. I built the black pipe manifold 20 some odd years ago. I run a chiller after my compressor because I lived in south carolina when I purchased the compressor and needed dry air to sand blast and paint, still need it now that I'm back home in Oklahoma. Compressor and chiller both have automatic drains. I have the compressor hooked up to a switch outside my compressor / paint storage room and the chiller is hooked up to outlets that are switched as well. I used 3/4" hydraulic hose to connect the compressor to the chiller and the chiller to the hard lines. I later added a 1/2" air line ran along the ceiling to the other side of my shop to a manifold that also supplies air to my outside reel.

I have a hose reel under my work bench as well and 2 coiled air lines above my bench. On the back wall is my outlet for my paint guns when I'm painting as well. All drops come from the top of the pipe and loop down with a drain at the bottom. I don't get any moisture at the drains

 

[mogandave]

After what's happened in this thread, I wouldn't consider anything safe to assume.

That dedicated water-trap will have a better chance of capturing the last bit of moisture if you have a trap/drain at the drop ahead of it.




Which one?

"Assuming" someone remembers to open the drain before it fills up, otherwise it does more harm than good.

That's a clean installation, did you make the block?

 

[racecougar]

"Assuming" someone remembers to open the drain before it fills up, otherwise it does more harm than good.

That's a clean installation, did you make the block?

I drain my compressor tank and dryer every day that I use it, and I drain the trap at whichever drop(s) I’ve used. It’s a simple habit to get into when closing the shop at the end of the day.

That block is part of the RapidAir Maxline kit. It would be quite easy to replicate.

 

[mikegt4]

Take no offense NakeDiesel but had a good chuckle when I saw this photo. It reminds me of the classic 3 Stooges short where the boys are contracted to fix the plumbing in a house. Curly keeps adding more and more pipes in an effort to fix a leak and ends up with 100 feet of pipe over a bathtub. And it still leaked.

 

[NakeDiesel]

Take no offense NakeDiesel but had a good chuckle when I saw this photo. It reminds me of the classic 3 Stooges short where the boys are contracted to fix the plumbing in a house. Curly keeps adding more and more pipes in an effort to fix a leak and ends up with 100 feet of pipe over a bathtub. And it still leaked.

No problem. That was a rework from 1 air outlet and a feeder to the bench. Had a line blow out on the bench and had to shut that section off till I fixed the air line feeder issue on the bench. That was my solution, adding a shut off valve for the hose reel, and another valve for the 2 coil lines on top. That was all built out of my pipe fittings tub I had there at the shop. It's an hour drive to lowes or hd.

 

[mikegt4]

I figured there had to be an explanation considering the rest of the system looked good. Enjoy the video.

 

[mogandave]

I drain my compressor tank and dryer every day that I use it, and I drain the trap at whichever drop(s) I’ve used. It’s a simple habit to get into when closing the shop at the end of the day.

Then I think it safe to assume you would make sure you had a dedicate trap and regulator when you were painting, yes?

That block is part of the RapidAir Maxline kit. It would be quite easy to replicate.

It's looks like a nice system.

 

[DocsMachine]

Just as a semi-relevant update:

My RapidAir Max-Line setup has now been pressurized 24-7 (to 90psi regulated) for four years and two months. No leaks, no issues, one of the single best upgrades I've ever done to the shop.



Doc.