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Accessory Building Variance Denied!!!

LuckyRugger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Mid-Michigan
I built a 32x40x14 barn in September, and in my township I'm allowed to build up to 3% of my lot size in total accessory buildings. I think my lot is 173.25' x 261', so that puts me at 2.83% of my allowance. I knew before we built the barn we wanted a larger one, but I thought it would be easier to request the variance once the initial barn was built. So, on 12/1 I had my variance, my neighbors we're notified of my request and a couple of them talked to me about it, but didn't complain at all. At the meeting I was surprised that 6 of the 7 neighbors were there, I'm sure the other one was at work since he works nights. I was somewhat concerned that so many showed up and that I didn't actually talk too many of them beforehand.

The meeting started and I spoke saying we wanted to add on 16' to the rear of our existing accessory building. The board asked if wanted to speak against the variance and nobody said anything. Then they asked if anyone wanted to speak in favor of it, and one neighbor said he did not any problem with the barn since he would not even see the addition. Then another neighbor, county sheriff, said he felt that the addition would not impact the surrounding neighboring properties because the existing structure already exist and if the structure would negatively impact the neighborhood it already has with the structure that met existing building limitations.

I was pretty happy at this point, then the board members started to discuss, and they mentioned the felt the existing barn looked like a commercial building in a residential area and by adding onto it would make it worse. But on the other hand one member said I could build a taller barn, up to 40' tall and still be within the current guidelines.

The lady that said I could build up made a motion to deny, then it was quickly seconded, followed by a 5-0 vote to deny my request. The request cost me $300, and there is no appeals process, just another $300 request for another meeting.

I was dumbfounded that they denied me when none of my neighbors wanted to speak against the addition. I guess I'll have to either attach the barn to my house, (~40-50') breeze way or build my barn taller. If I attach it, there is no limit on the size, just offsets, and it would be nice to have a covered area to walk to my barn.


Here is my build: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74257
 
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ishiboo

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Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
9,481
Location
Oshkosh, WI
I built a 32x40x14 barn in September, and in my township I'm allowed to build up to 3% of my lot size in total accessory buildings. I think my lot is 173.25' x 261', so that puts me at 2.83% of my allowance. I knew before we built the barn we wanted a larger one, but I thought it would be easier to request the variance once the initial barn was built. So, on 12/1 I had my variance, my neighbors we're notified of my request and a couple of them talked to me about it, but didn't complain at all. At the meeting I was surprised that 6 of the 7 neighbors were there, I'm sure the other one was at work since he works nights. I was somewhat concerned that so many showed up and that I didn't actually talk too many of them beforehand.

The meeting started and I spoke saying we wanted to add on 16' to the rear of our existing accessory building. The board asked if wanted to speak against the variance and nobody said anything. Then they asked if anyone wanted to speak in favor of it, and one neighbor said he did not any problem with the barn since he would not even see the addition. Then another neighbor, county sheriff, said he felt that the addition would not impact the surrounding neighboring properties because the existing structure already exist and if the structure would negatively impact the neighborhood it already has with the structure that met existing building limitations.

I was pretty happy at this point, then the board members started to discuss, and they mentioned the felt the existing barn looked like a commercial building in a residential area and by adding onto it would make it worse. But on the other hand one member said I could build a taller barn, up to 40' tall and still be within the current guidelines.

The lady that said I could build up made a motion to deny, then it was quickly seconded, followed by a 5-0 vote to deny my request. The request cost me $300, and there is no appeals process, just another $300 request for another meeting.

I was dumbfounded that they denied me when none of my neighbors wanted to speak against the addition. I guess I'll have to either attach the barn to my house, (~40-50') breeze way or build my barn taller. If I attach it, there is no limit on the size, just offsets, and it would be nice to have a covered area to walk to my barn.


Here is my build: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74257

Zoning can be pretty silly. I have an 8 acre lot, and with the 40x100 barn I have (which has been on the lot for over a hundred years), I'm at my maximum square footage.

It's not so much about your neighbors, but the overall mentality of the community in general. The place I moved is "anti-city" and trying to keep things from becoming built up and non-rural. I'm sure I'd be in the same boat as you.

So, my only choice is to fix up the barn. Unfortunately, there is also a 50% maximum renovation allowance off assessed value - almost nothing - on the barn, which meets my square footage requirements, but does not meet the height requirement. (It's 4 stories.) So to even fix up the barn, which has sat for over 100 years on the property, I'm going to have to go for a variance.

Wish me luck and I wish you luck... if you apply again, try and get a rendering or drawing of how the addition will look, to show how silly it is in comparison with what you've already built to deny another 16'. The building looks really nice, especially with the stone veneer... they should let you add on :beer::beer:
 

GarageEnvy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,282
Location
Fresno
Sorry to hear about the denial but on the positive side you have some good neighbors who were willing to take time and support you. Usually a neighbor who showed up at a hearing like that would be there to sink the project.
 

nmanitou

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
221
Location
Michigan
Look on the bright side. If you have only used 2.83% of your allowed 3%, then according to my calculations you could build a 32' x 2.4' addition!
 

SPDMETL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
216
Long Live Communism ! What a shame when people who are unafffected by your property can have anything to say about it. And as far as build-anything-as-long-as-it's-attatched-but-not-freestanding...who thought that **** up ?
 

PAToyota

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Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
4,366
Location
South Central Pennsylvania, USA
First rule for a variance is that you have to prove a hardship. Basically, it isn't good enough to just "want" to do something that goes against the rules, you have to prove that the rules create an undue hardship for you.

The ruling against you really isn't against you personally. It is about setting a precedent. If they allow you to go over the 3% rule, then the next person that comes along can point to that ruling and use it as a reason so that they can go over it as well.
 

bobabuee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
173
Location
HAZLETON, PA
take next step go to court house it cost more,but if you want it try another ave zoning *****. it your land :thumbup:
 

dougmac

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Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
253
A technique that a friend of mine used was to find examples of buildings in the area that were out of compliance in the same way. He was able to find enough examples and show it would be unfair to deny his variance when other buildings were allowed to be built out of compliance in the same way that he wanted to.

Good Luck!!
 

cheap bastard

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Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
614
Take a look around you for the same radius as used for determining your property taxes. If the variance for the same or more additional space has been given for a property with the same zoning as yours, you have a precedent to work with. The argument is simply that someone else's use or enjoyment of their property is being seen s superior to yours. An explanation must be given or the prejudice may be unjust. Usually, if that is the case, they will allow. It may come with stipulations or result in a wording change in the zoning rules.
 

djmartins

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
109
Long Live Communism ! What a shame when people who are unafffected by your property can have anything to say about it. And as far as build-anything-as-long-as-it's-attatched-but-not-freestanding...who thought that **** up ?

Agree.
We no longer have private property rights in this country.
 

Cardboard Man

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Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
810
Location
NJ
Sorry to hear of your troubles. My thought has always been that if you own your property and pay your taxes, you should be able to have/build anything you want. Even if it's ugly, even if your neighbors don't like it. I have some things near me that I don't particularly care for but I don't say anything because it's not mine. People should learn how to mind their own business. Unfortunately our society has devolved to a point where gov't 'officials' think they need to manage every detail of our lives, and our supposedly free country has become just an illusion.
 

blkhonda1991

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Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
608
Location
Connecticut
Long Live Communism ! What a shame when people who are unafffected by your property can have anything to say about it. And as far as build-anything-as-long-as-it's-attatched-but-not-freestanding...who thought that **** up ?

Hardly communism. the building anything as long as its attached usually has restrictions to, there is no way a town that restricts accessory buildings is going to allow anything to go as long as its attached, but then again i dont know the zoning regulations of the town

Sorry to hear of your troubles. My thought has always been that if you own your property and pay your taxes, you should be able to have/build anything you want. Even if it's ugly, even if your neighbors don't like it. I have some things near me that I don't particularly care for but I don't say anything because it's not mine. People should learn how to mind their own business. Unfortunately our society has devolved to a point where gov't 'officials' think they need to manage every detail of our lives, and our supposedly free country has become just an illusion.

i'm sure there is something that if built next door to you that you'd take exception to. zoning may not be perfect but its there for a reason and a very good reason at that.
 
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SuperSocket

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
2,683
Location
Michigan
Sorry to hear of your troubles. My thought has always been that if you own your property and pay your taxes, you should be able to have/build anything you want. Even if it's ugly, even if your neighbors don't like it. I have some things near me that I don't particularly care for but I don't say anything because it's not mine. People should learn how to mind their own business. Unfortunately our society has devolved to a point where gov't 'officials' think they need to manage every detail of our lives, and our supposedly free country has become just an illusion.

Totally agree. :beer:
 

rickycobra

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Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Messages
292
On the brightside you have awesome neighbors. Did you ask them all why they showed up?
 

steviec

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
18
Lucky,

Sorry to hear about your situation. My guess is there's probably more to it. You said your neighbors "were notified of your request". I assume this means they were notified by the township and not you? I'm guessing that your neighbors voiced their disapproval directly to the aldermen, or committee, or whatever they call them in your neck of the woods.

It just seems a little strange to me that six out of seven of your neighbors showed up and two of them didn't have a problem with it. That leaves four more that showed up for no reason? I doubt it.

If I were you I'd speak directly to each of the committee one on one to see just exactly what their objection was and see if they'll talk about any neighbors that might have contacted them. Not a whole lot you can do about it, but it would be good to know which neighbors where the white hats and which ones don't have the guts to tell you what the really think.

Just my take on it. :beer:
 

e-tek

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Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,690
Location
Saskatoon, SK
On the brightside you have awesome neighbors. Did you ask them all why they showed up?

What I got out of it (in my persecuted mind!) was that they all spoke beforehand and made it clear to council they didn't want you adding on. Sounds to me like the board said: "Don't worry, we'll handle it"..... :headscrat
 

mad57

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Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,698
Ok first step figure out in your head what this extra space is worth $$ to you.....then try 1 of two things...if your feeling squirely spend another $300 and go infront of them again with detailed drawings of the current build and the addition from multible angles real pics with drawn of the addition, then jazz it up a bit with a country flair flower pots maybe a coupalla (?) try vinyle stickers to make the roll up doors look like swing out barn doors ect you get where im going with this? then if it fails again go to (the) local lawyer the guy who knows the board on a personal level and deals with the majority of the local cases will cost more but you will prob win the (good ole boy) mentallity with small town council. good luck keep us posted on the out come.
 

Groovy

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Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
135
Location
Eastern Shore Island MD
I agree with most of the sentiments however the old adage of “your rights stop were the next persons begins” comes into play.

In the area where I live, on an island, it is critical for all homes to be able to deal with their own run off and sewage so non permeable surfaces are a critical thing and there are good reasons for zoning but if someone lives in area that is not the case and it isn't bothering the neighbors or hurting the environment in a permanent way a property owner should be able to build whatever they want.

Of course one has to blame the bone heads that try to build say an open strip mine on their 5 acre plot in the past for these laws.
 

venom50svt

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Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
259
Location
Upstate Ny
Sorry to hear this. I ran into something like this before in my neighborhood. The people say one thing to your face and another thing behind closed doors.
I would stand up for what is written as the guide lines for such a building... They cannot have a personal opinion when it comes to the written rules..
I would get together with your neighbors and be sneaky with the questions you ask. The more you talk the more you will get a handle on who is on your side and whos not..
With that, apply again, if there is another fiasco than get a lawyer and have them included in a suit... The thought of them having to get a lawyer and spend the money to defend themselves will likely change their mind.. Its cheaper to let it go than to fight it..
stevo
 

mad57

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Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,698
The thought of them having to get a lawyer and spend the money to defend themselves will likely change their mind.. Its cheaper to let it go than to fight it..
stevo[/QUOTE]

Well if you do get a lawyer just sue for your right to build...not any money...with that being said if you sued for money the town can turn ur suit into there insurance and you will run out of money feeding your lawyer,if you sue for just the right to build (the permit) the town has to pay there lawyer out of tax payers money, and the people dont like there money going to a lawyer just to prove a point with harassing a local resident, if it gets to that point feel free to let your towns people KNOW... youll have more supporters there than you know what to do with. again good luck.
 

6768rogues

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Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,524
Location
Western NY
I think you should give it up unless you can show a hardship. Don't misunderstand, I hate many zoning laws and I think it ***** that you cannot build. However, they have the law on their side and what you are proposing is in violation of the law. A variance process is to relieve someone from strict compliance when a non self-created hardship exists. Unless someone can be bought off, you are going to lose again.
 

blkhonda1991

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
608
Location
Connecticut
Sorry to hear this. I ran into something like this before in my neighborhood. The people say one thing to your face and another thing behind closed doors.
I would stand up for what is written as the guide lines for such a building... They cannot have a personal opinion when it comes to the written rules..
I would get together with your neighbors and be sneaky with the questions you ask. The more you talk the more you will get a handle on who is on your side and whos not..
With that, apply again, if there is another fiasco than get a lawyer and have them included in a suit... The thought of them having to get a lawyer and spend the money to defend themselves will likely change their mind.. Its cheaper to let it go than to fight it..
stevo
the thing is a variance is for when you are going against the written rules...he has no grounds to sue since he isnt being restricted from building what is allowed, hes just not able to build bigger than what is allowed. its tough to get variances for a reason...if they were easy to get what would the point of rules be?
 
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