Adding an outlet...instead of Romex

[aka Larry]

Can I use 3 individual pieces of 12 GA THHN left over from the wiring in my shop? The outlet will be tied into an existing switch literally right on the opposite side of an interior wall. The run will be less than 1 ft so I don't want to buy a whole roll of Romex just for this.

What say you guys?

 

[Erampu]

I'm not an electrician, nor do I play one on television, but I don't see why not.

 

[Norcal]

With out being in conduit? No most retail outlets should sell by the foot.

 

[homebuilt burner]

If you ask around maybe a neighbor has some romex laying around. If you want I can throw a foot in a box and mail you some. pm if wanted Or maybe someone on here is closer.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The individual wires need to be protected by some sort of raceway. It may require a short piece of conduit, or the two boxes may be close enough that you can simply use a fitting or two to connect them.

 

[aka Larry]

The individual wires need to be protected by some sort of raceway. It may require a short piece of conduit, or the two boxes may be close enough that you can simply use a fitting or two to connect them.

Not trying to sound like smarta** here, because I appreciate the help, but protected from what? The wires will be inside a wall...behind the sheetrock.

 

[Falcon67]

I'd tape them together and use it. Romex type sheathing doesn't protect squat IMHO. Especially the home center stuff, you can go through the sheath with your fingernail. It sure as hell won't stop a nail from a picture hanger.

 

[CJ7VFR]

If by protected people mean the wires have to be inside some type of sheathing, similar to Romex, then you could always create a short 3 wire bundle from your individual wires and wrap it with some electrical tape or something like that, to create the sheathing around it.

Jim

Opps, Falcon67 beat me to it by a minute!

 

[Falcon67]

Put it in split loom.

 

[Norcal]

If someone is too stingy to buy a short piece of NM cable in order to do the job right, they really should not do it at all.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Not trying to sound like smarta** here, because I appreciate the help, but protected from what? The wires will be inside a wall...behind the sheetrock.

The short answer is because Article 310 of the National Electric Code says so...
Assuming the wire you have on hand is the typical THHN/THWN type you buy at the local home center, the insulation is rated for electrical protection but it's not rated for physical protection, which means it needs to be installed inside an approved raceway - a conduit, a wire channel or something of that sort.

 

[pattenp]

The short answer is because Article 310 of the National Electric Code says so...
Assuming the wire you have on hand is the typical THHN/THWN type you buy at the local home center, the insulation is rated for electrical protection but it's not rated for physical protection, which means it needs to be installed inside an approved raceway - a conduit, a wire channel or something of that sort.

This ^^^ It boils down to being NEC compliant. If you don't care about code then do it how ever you please.

 

[signcrafter]

Can you, yes. Would it be up to code, no.

Almost any store sells 10' rolls of romex or most stores will sell by the foot also. Grab 2 feet and add your outlet.

Can even place a want add on craigslist for a short piece of romex.

 

[Trey T]

Here's my take on it: I believe it's safer to run the THNN inside a wall than Romex for a given situation (not for all situation) like in OP. Let's assume the wire is ran vertically between the 16in-OC 2x4 studs with 3ft of wire (THNN or Romex) and you happen to set the picture frame fastener at the wire. The more likely hood of piercing either wire will be the Romex because the Romex is more ridged than the THNN.

If you can identify the potential issue using THNN, please state your case scenario for the OP so he can understand. It's pointless to cut-and-paste NEC when any OP has a unique question, it makes questions like these pointless to any online forums.

 

[OzarkMan]

The main answer for the OP is this.
Do it as you wish as it sounds like you may or may not follow proper advice to use a section of NM to do it code compliant. Fine.
The day there's a fire somewhere in the vicinity caused by anything other than the electrical connection/wiring methods will be the day the the OP will be answering to the insurance company who may be negotiating on a claim.

 

[Stuart in MN]

If you can identify the potential issue using THNN, please state your case scenario for the OP so he can understand. It's pointless to cut-and-paste NEC when any OP has a unique question, it makes questions like these pointless to any online forums.

I think I was fairly clear in my post:

the insulation is rated for electrical protection but it's not rated for physical protection, which means it needs to be installed inside an approved raceway - a conduit, a wire channel or something of that sort.

Sure, it's not likely that physical damage would occur to individual wires running a few inches between two electrical boxes that are back to back with each other, but I can't advise people to do something that's not per Code.

 

[Slowgsr]

You need to follow class 1 wiring methods. Your over 100VA.

Do not run the free-air, don't hack it. Buy a piece of romex, they sell it by the foot.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The short answer is because Article 310 of the National Electric Code says so...
Assuming the wire you have on hand is the typical THHN/THWN type you buy at the local home center, the insulation is rated for electrical protection but it's not rated for physical protection, which means it needs to be installed inside an approved raceway - a conduit, a wire channel or something of that sort.

Bingo!

Tommy

 

[finn]

Are you really so poor that you can't go to Ace Hardware and buy 3 feet of romex?

My grocery store sells the stuff by the foot, for less than the price of a dozen eggs!

I bet it would cost less than your morning latte.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I cant believe how cheap some people are!



If youre gonna do something the wrong way but first come on here to ask about how to do it, why are u surprised when several people including electricians tell u that your idea is the wrong way to do it? Why even bother asking for advise if u dont want to hear that your way is the wrong way? :

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I cant believe how cheap some people are!



If youre gonna do something the wrong way but first come on here to ask about how to do it, why are u surprised when several people including electricians tell u that your idea is the wrong way to do it? Why even bother asking for advise if u dont want to hear that your way is the wrong way? :

Exactly!

 

[aka Larry]

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't realize Romex was sold by the foot. I'll go to Lowes and get a short piece for the job.

 

[Showkey]

Buy a 25' roll........then you will have it for the next project. Consider it an investment like money in the bank. Do not forget to buy the proper box fittings, staples, wire nuts that's all part of that pesky code compliance.

 

[nadogail]

I cant believe how cheap some people are!

Some folks, and I have been one myself, have just enough knowledge to be considered dangerous.

Someday they will have accumulated enough scars and experience to be able to say "Oh Hell, that will work" and then just hide their jury rig and move on to the next fiasco.

 

[Trey T]

I cant believe how cheap some people are!



If youre gonna do something the wrong way but first come on here to ask about how to do it, why are u surprised when several people including electricians tell u that your idea is the wrong way to do it? Why even bother asking for advise if u dont want to hear that your way is the wrong way? :

It's not about cheap or not, right or wrong, it's about informing people. What I've learned over the years is that, it doesn't matter what we tell the OP, he/she will make his/her own decision regardless. The OP obviously know that using THNN is not the norm, but he just want some explanation why not. Pointing a code, for most people that are curious like the OP, doesn't help because a code requires interpretation; it's a reason why it's called a "code" not a "standard operating procedure".

That's the reason why I call a lot of you NEC-huggers; you're not understanding why people come on to forums to ask random questions when they already have a solution.

For this particular case, you can either tell the OP why it's not safe or not feasible, and let him decide. So far, the OP might decide that it's more feasible to go buy the foot Romex.

 

[aka Larry]

The OP obviously know that using THNN is not the norm, but he just want some explanation why not. Pointing a code, for most people that are curious like the OP, doesn't help because a code requires interpretation; it's a reason why it's called a "code" not a "standard operating procedure".

Well said. I knew what I wanted to do wasn't "per code", but I wanted to know an actual reason other than "because NEC said so". FWIW, unless I missed it, I didn't get an actual reason (for this situation) but I was probably foolish to think I might get one in the first place. Also, I'm not "too cheap" as I've spent $600 on this project already so I can afford a roll of Romex, but thought it would be wasteful to do so.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Buy a 25' roll........then you will have it for the next project. Consider it an investment like money in the bank. Do not forget to buy the proper box fittings, staples, wire nuts that's all part of that pesky code compliance.

plastic boxes dont need fittings and NM-b fished in closed walls doesnt require staples.

....That's the reason why I call a lot of you NEC-huggers; you're not understanding why people come on to forums to ask random questions when they already have a solution.....

Nec huggers? While some on here may be "nec huggers", I on the other hand have to abide by it at work.

 

[Showkey]

plastic boxes dont need fittings and NM-b fished in closed walls doesnt require staples.
.

OP does not mention plastic boxes.......and he used THHN prior in the project so one would assume conduit was used ?

 

[Trey T]

plastic boxes dont need fittings and NM-b fished in closed walls doesnt require staples.



Nec huggers? While some on here may be "nec huggers", I on the other hand have to abide by it at work.

I don't think you followed what I said. to be blunt, general public doesn't care about codes, they want to do things based on what's feasible, whether it's the cheapest route or the most expensive route.

i.e. a buddy of mine purchased a 1950 home in a reviving neighborhood in Houston, where real estate prices have soared in the last 2-3yrs, (land value worth about 85% and improvement only 15%) and renovated about half of his home which includes electrical panel. When he was asked about upgrading all of his lines to 3-prong (currently no ground), he simply didn't think it was feasible (he's a electrical engineer in power distribution). Again, it's not about doing things by the code, it's what they feel comfortable with based on their knowledge or lack of knowledge.

I think a lot of you forget which country we live in, everybody got their own mind. Are their behavior dumb? No, they're just irrational. It doesn't help when someone throw NEC code at an irrational person, because codes, a language that requires interpretation, doesn't mean anything to them.