Advice needed desperately regarding garagedominium design

[LisaJ]

After all you’ve been through on this, the space is starting to look amazing! It can be tough to visualize a finished project when you’re standing inside an empty metal box, but it looks like you’ve got a good team putting it together with you.

Thank you! You’re soooo right. I was so overwhelmed looking at that bare metal building. I’m generally pretty good at interior design, but man, was this project out of my wheelhouse. Lol. I’m so grateful that it’s coming together. I was worried there for a minute.

 

[racecougar]

We have already had the walls and ceilings spray foamed, and the plan is to cover the walls in the front half of the barn (up to about 12 feet) in barn wood, which I’m *thinking* further insulates it (?). On the back bottom half of the barn, where we will actually be using it as a garage and storage for my tractor or UTV, the walls will be covered with painted plywood (to save money). And finally, the entire upper portion of the barn all the way around will be covered in white sheet metal, including in the open loft area.

Also, I actually learned from this group about the fire safety issue with spray foam, so we are planning to paint the ceiling spray foam with black fire retardant paint, but that won’t be covered in any wood. Do you think that’s sufficient insulation for the ceiling? We live in Coastal SC, so we don’t have an issue with cold, but it does get hot and humid here.

Assuming from the extent of interior finishing that you're planning to condition the air and potentially inhabit the building, I would expect that you'll want more insulation than what it appears you have. Any idea of what your current wall and ceiling R-rating is? From the photos, it appears to be a very thin layer of foam.

 

[RPH]

Lisa,
Been reading through this and what a struggle! Only thing I want to mention is the barn wood. I have an old barn that was used with cows. I’ve been here for over twenty years. The couple before me I don’t know how long they had. The only solid proof that the farm functioned was a seed tag found, dated 1958!
Only use barn wood that was on the upper level of the barn. If it was around any animals on the farm, it stinks of old sweat and urine. It’s those hot humid days and I open the barn and it can be real strong. So be careful selecting barn wood.
I do like how you stood up for yourself. We all make mistake’s. It’s what you do with them that defines us.
Good luck, keep up the communications and pictures too!
Looking good!

 

[LisaJ]

Assuming from the extent of interior finishing that you're planning to condition the air and potentially inhabit the building, I would expect that you'll want more insulation than what it appears you have. Any idea of what your current wall and ceiling R-rating is? From the photos, it appears to be a very thin layer of foam.

I don’t know the answer about the R-rating, but I will see if I can find out. (Wait, is R-rating the wind level rating? If so, I definitely have that info somewhere. We are in a hurricane prone area, so I paid to have both the building and glass garage door upgraded to make them safe for up to 145mph winds, I think it was? I’ll have to double-check on the number, though).

As for the foam, I’m not sure about how thick it is, but the installer is a company with a stellar reputation, so I really hope it’s thick enough.

We will have AC (exposed ductwork), but we will not be living there, although we would still like it to be a comfortable temperature inside. It’s mainly a recreation space for us and our families, plus storage for my gardening equipment, kayaks, fishing stuff, etc. So, it’s okay if it’s not year-round living level of insulated…. but… I also don’t want it to be a hot box in the scorching summer.

 

[mike93lx]

R value is resistance to heat transfer. Higher is better.

Closed cell foam can be around 6-7 R per inch of thickness

 

[LisaJ]

Lisa,
Been reading through this and what a struggle! Only thing I want to mention is the barn wood. I have an old barn that was used with cows. I’ve been here for over twenty years. The couple before me I don’t know how long they had. The only solid proof that the farm functioned was a seed tag found, dated 1958!
Only use barn wood that was on the upper level of the barn. If it was around any animals on the farm, it stinks of old sweat and urine. It’s those hot humid days and I open the barn and it can be real strong. So be careful selecting barn wood.
I do like how you stood up for yourself. We all make mistake’s. It’s what you do with them that defines us.
Good luck, keep up the communications and pictures too!
Looking good!

Thanks so much for your input! I had actually been searching for antique barn wood to no avail, but after reading your comment, I am SO relieved that I never found any that was in a large enough quantity for what we needed! Omgosh. I would have died if it stunk like… a barn! Why did I never think of that!? Wow. Ok, so that was another crisis averted! My husband HATES strong smells, and he would have burned it down (with me in it! ). Having said all of that, the contractor actually bought new wood, so thankfully, our walls will not smell like barn animals. (Omg. I seriously would have cried!).

P.S. I’m from a long line of “spicy” women, so I learned from an early age that a girl’s gotta stand up for herself. Thanks for your kudos.

 

[LisaJ]

R value is resistance to heat transfer. Higher is better.

Closed cell foam can be around 6-7 R per inch of thickness

I’m going to try to find out that answer and get back to you. Thanks!

 

[racecougar]

Something else to look at/question: Do you have vented soffits? From this photo, it looks like that is the case (looks like like coming in from vented soffits). If so, why was the roof deck sprayed?

 

[RPH]

Thanks so much for your input! I had actually been searching for antique barn wood to no avail, but after reading your comment, I am SO relieved that I never found any that was in a large enough quantity for what we needed! Omgosh. I would have died if it stunk like… a barn! Why did I never think of that!? Wow. Ok, so that was another crisis averted! My husband HATES strong smells, and he would have burned it down (with me in it! ). Having said all of that, the contractor actually bought new wood, so thankfully, our walls will not smell like barn animals. (Omg. I seriously would have cried!).

P.S. I’m from a long line of “spicy” women, so I learned from an early age that a girl’s gotta stand up for herself. Thanks for your kudos.

It’s the type of smell that likes to hug you! Really, I will dash in open the window at other end and dash out. Wait a half hour and it’s tolerable. New wood solves that but brings in other potential issues. We all remember the Chinese drywall issue!
Just keep plugging along.

 

[LisaJ]

Something else to look at/question: Do you have vented soffits? From this photo, it looks like that is the case (looks like like coming in from vented soffits). If so, why was the roof deck sprayed?

I’m sorry that I don’t know what any of that means. Lol. I’m pretty sure that there’s not an open space (to the outside) where the roof meets the ceiling if that’s what you’re asking? No water comes in when it rains, and the building will have AC, which would be rather counterproductive if it was all escaping to the outside through the roof (so I certainly hope it’s not open to the outside!). I don’t know what a roof soffet is, though, so I’m not sure what I’m even talking about.

 

[LisaJ]

It’s the type of smell that likes to hug you! Really, I will dash in open the window at other end and dash out. Wait a half hour and it’s tolerable. New wood solves that but brings in other potential issues. We all remember the Chinese drywall issue!
Just keep plugging along.

Wait, what? I don’t know anything about a Chinese drywall issue. I’m not having drywall, though. Is it real drywall that had an issue? I’m so confused. Lol.

Also, I laughed OUT LOUD at your description of running from the stank.

 

[cycle61]

I’m sorry that I don’t know what any of that means. Lol. I’m pretty sure that there’s not an open space (to the outside) where the roof meets the ceiling if that’s what you’re asking? No water comes in when it rains, and the building will have AC, which would be rather counterproductive if it was all escaping to the outside through the roof (so I certainly hope it’s not open to the outside!). I don’t know what a roof soffet is, though, so I’m not sure what I’m even talking about.

It looks like light is coming through between the walls and the roof. In a normal construction house, they are vented at that location, the roof is uninsulated, and there is a ceiling below the attic that is insulated. In a structure like yours, with the roof itself insulated, there should not be a gap to allow air in/out of the space at that point.

 

[LisaJ]

It looks like light is coming through between the walls and the roof. In a normal construction house, they are vented at that location, the roof is uninsulated, and there is a ceiling below the attic that is insulated. In a structure like yours, with the roof itself insulated, there should not be a gap to allow air in/out of the space at that point.

Hmmm. Ok, well, that makes sense, and I am certainly going to check on that. Neither the building company nor my contractor have mentioned that, so I very much hope that is not the case. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! I’m on it.

 

[racecougar]

Bingo.

These are your soffit panels. As cycle61 stated above, in typical construction, they are perforated (vented) to allow air to flow up from the soffit to the vented ridge. The ceiling is then insulated. If your soffits are vented, as they appear to be, you have a real mish-mash of designs here that isn't going to work out.

 

[LisaJ]

Bingo.

These are your soffit panels. As cycle61 stated above, in typical construction, they are perforated (vented) to allow air to flow up from the soffit to the vented ridge. The ceiling is then insulated. If your soffits are vented, as they appear to be, you have a real mish-mash of designs here that isn't going to work out.

My husband is talking to the contractor now. He may already have a plan in place for it. I just don’t know. The loft is being built right now, so then the roof will be more accessible. There are 20 foot walls, so I’m sure that area will be easier to deal with once there is a floor in place to reach it. I’ll keep y’all posted.

 

[LisaJ]

Hmmm. Ok, well, that makes sense, and I am certainly going to check on that. Neither the building company nor my contractor have mentioned that, so I very much hope that is not the case. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! I’m on it.

Ok, so my husband just talked to our contractor, and I didn’t get the full explanation (my husband is trying to talk to me on the phone, text the contractor, and also move my beehives at the same time, so he’s answering in short sentences! ), but apparently, the contractor is a aware of the space (there is one there, as you said), and he is addressing it. There was something about some special fan (?) and something else that I didn’t understand? I will update more when I get more info, but at least we know it’s not being ignored. There is a plan. Whew!

 

[racecougar]

The contractor is likely going back and closing off the vented soffits and installing a HRV or ERV to ventilate the building while managing conditioned air. It's a fix; it just ***** to do double/triple work after the fact.

I would still question the level of insulation. I don't expect that there is enough present to make for a reasonably efficient envelope.

 

[Wreckster23]

Hindsight is 20/20. You might have been off to a rough start but this building will be fantastic.

 

[LisaJ]

The contractor is likely going back and closing off the vented soffits and installing a HRV or ERV to ventilate the building while managing conditioned air. It's a fix; it just ***** to do double/triple work after the fact.

I would still question the level of insulation. I don't expect that there is enough present to make for a reasonably efficient envelope.

That could be. I went by my office early this afternoon, and it sucked me into its vortex, so I didn’t even have a chance to follow-up about the details before the close of business. As long as it’s being handled, though, that’s all I really care about.

And you’re right. It does **** to have to do extra work after-the-fact, but…. ‘Tis life sometimes, sooooo I’m just rolling with it at this point. The next time around, I’ll know the right questions to ask and do a much better job of making everything happen in a harmonious order. I’ve had to accept that the “perfection” shipped sailed a long time ago.

I did swing by the farm before I headed home for the night, and I took a closer look at the spray foam. It looks pretty thick closer up than it looks in the other photos I posted. Attached are a couple of pics I snapped. (I specifically asked that they not get the spray foam all over the beams, so that may be why it looks thinner?).

 

[LisaJ]

Hindsight is 20/20. You might have been off to a rough start but this building will be fantastic.

Ahhhh, thank you so very much! I think it will be, too! I really appreciate the positive feedback.

 

[racecougar]

I did swing by the farm before I headed home for the night, and I took a closer look at the spray foam. It looks pretty thick closer up than it looks in the other photos I posted. Attached are a couple of pics I snapped. (I specifically asked that they not get the spray foam all over the beams, so that may be why it looks thinner?).

Again, from the photos, that only looks to be 1" to maybe 2" of foam. That said, I'm not there to see it in person. In your climate, I'd expect to see R-30 on the roof and R-13 on the walls at minimum. I'm only pointing this out as now is the time to improve your insulation.

 

[Wreckster23]

It does look thin, all around. I wonder if perhaps it was costed to do a thin layer of spray and insulate the 'living space' separately from the storage space. That's a lot of area, a lot of foam, pricey I imagine. It might warrant a quick talk with the company that did the spray in. Ask them how much they were expected to spray, what R-value (the insulation value, they'll know right off bat what they were aiming for) and if the previous contractor had spoken to them about the plans regarding insulation.

 

[75gmck25]

When they spray foamed our attic to turn it into conditioned space they tacked up small pieces of cardboard with inch markings, perpendicular to the foam so that you could see exactly how thick it was sprayed. I don't remember how much the required thickness was to meet code, but in a few places I got as much as 8" of foam.

 

[dcg9381]

Again, from the photos, that only looks to be 1" to maybe 2" of foam. That said, I'm not there to see it in person. In your climate, I'd expect to see R-30 on the roof and R-13 on the walls at minimum. I'm only pointing this out as now is the time to improve your insulation.

If they frame "off" of it, add traditional insulation.. And then you've got high performance "hybrid" - cost effective and with the advantages of both.

 

[racecougar]

If they frame "off" of it, add traditional insulation.. And then you've got high performance "hybrid" - cost effective and with the advantages of both.

That would be my suggestion as well.

 

[CraigStu]

Ya know, if the insulation isn't perfect it will still help. As I think your use is not going to be like you live there 24hr/day, so it doesn't need to get to 72deg w/ perfect humidity. I know it's a lot different, but I cool my 28x32 garage w/ a window AC unit. It is adequate for half the space if it were a home but, it does drop the humidity. An oscillating fan makes it feel nice even though it is still 78-80F in there on a 95F day. I 'think' a similar result would work for you.

 

[LisaJ]

Again, from the photos, that only looks to be 1" to maybe 2" of foam. That said, I'm not there to see it in person. In your climate, I'd expect to see R-30 on the roof and R-13 on the walls at minimum. I'm only pointing this out as now is the time to improve your insulation.

I’m back! Just heard back from the spray foam company. The R-value on the walls is 22, and it’s 35 on the roof. Don’t know what that means, but that’s what we are working with.

 

[LisaJ]

Hi everyone! Sorry for the delayed reply. Been insanely busy, and I also just heard back from the spray foam company. The R-value for the walls is 22, and for the roof, it’s 35. So, that’s what we are working with for this project.

 

[LisaJ]

Ya know, if the insulation isn't perfect it will still help. As I think your use is not going to be like you live there 24hr/day, so it doesn't need to get to 72deg w/ perfect humidity. I know it's a lot different, but I cool my 28x32 garage w/ a window AC unit. It is adequate for half the space if it were a home but, it does drop the humidity. An oscillating fan makes it feel nice even though it is still 78-80F in there on a 95F day. I 'think' a similar result would work for you.

Thanks so much. I’m hoping it will be sufficient insulation, but it may not be perfect, like you said. The R-value is 22 on the walls and 35 on the roof, per the spray foam company. So, we will hope for the best!

 

[LisaJ]

It does look thin, all around. I wonder if perhaps it was costed to do a thin layer of spray and insulate the 'living space' separately from the storage space. That's a lot of area, a lot of foam, pricey I imagine. It might warrant a quick talk with the company that did the spray in. Ask them how much they were expected to spray, what R-value (the insulation value, they'll know right off bat what they were aiming for) and if the previous contractor had spoken to them about the plans regarding insulation.

The r-value is 22 on the walls and 35 on the roof, so hopefully that will be sufficient. Fingers crossed.

 

[dandan111]

Maybe new shiplap? Would be clean and you can paint.
That’s gotten to be a crazy price garage but it’s a house honestly . Definitely unique. Keep on it! Good luck.

 

[dandan111]

Garage door is cool

 

[LisaJ]

Garage door is cool

Thank you so much. I like how it turned out.

 

[LisaJ]

Maybe new shiplap? Would be clean and you can paint.
That’s gotten to be a crazy price garage but it’s a house honestly . Definitely unique. Keep on it! Good luck.

Thanks! you’re right that it’s part-garage, part-rec area. It’s at our farm, so it will have storage for the farm and fishing equipment and also have a space for our family to relax and enjoy the farm. It’s a combo.

 

[dandan111]

Is that porch area going to be garage or maybe an outdoor kitchen type area with bar/tv?

 

[MileHighRover]

Lisa, it's looking great. You should be proud of righting the ship. Looking forward to the finished building, but not as much as you are.

 

[LisaJ]

Is that porch area going to be garage or maybe an outdoor kitchen type area with bar/tv?

I think I’m going to put a grill out there (there will be a small indoor kitchen inside the barn on that same wall), and there will be outdoor furniture out there for eating meals and relaxing. You can’t see from these photos, but there is a view of a big pond and dock from that porch and from that glass garage door, so we are really wanting to use the space to enjoy that part of the property, as well.

 

[LisaJ]

Lisa, it's looking great. You should be proud of righting the ship. Looking forward to the finished building, but not as much as you are.

Haha. Thank you! And yes, you’re so right. I am SOOOO ready for it to be finished.

 

[LisaJ]

For everyone who has been following along on this rollercoaster ride of barn-building with me, I would like to share something that may give y’all a little chuckle.

I unlocked the back door to the barn the other day and walked up front to look out the glass garage door, and I was like, “WHAT THE HELL IS THAT!?”. Once my heart rate actually slowed down , I quickly realized that it was just a little “gift” from my husband. Never a dull moment.

 

[LisaJ]

Hi, everyone! I have an update (for those who care and/or who asked to see progress photos)! Things are finally starting to come together, and I’m so excited about it!

We now have electric, plumbing, air conditioning, cabinets, and drum roll, please…. some WOOD WALLS! Woot! We still have 1.5 more walls to add wood to, along with framing the windows, but that will all be finished this week! (We also have a bathroom getting its tile next week, and we are on the books waiting for the sewer company to install our grinder pump to connect the bathroom).

Sooooo…. Here are some pictures of where we are now….. For all who have stuck around for this journey, thanks for your support! The next time I post pictures will be when it’s all finished (with the exception of the loft flooring and the upper sheet metal walls, which will be Phase II). Can’t wait! Thanks again for the encouragement and ideas you’ve given along the way!