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air compressor repair

galute

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Last year after my Dad passed I ended up with his air compressor. It's a 60 gallon 6 hp craftsman. It's probably 20 years old but has not been used much at all and works great. A couple weeks ago I got a call from my wife saying it had sprung a leak on the bottom of the tank. Apparently it has a pin hole rusted thru. Anyone ever replace the bottom of one of these tanks? Where did you get it? I would hate to toss this thing over a pin hole.

PS, Before the safety nazi's get started, I am quite capable of welding on a new bottom and testing it to specs. I just need the parts.
 
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porschedude996TT

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Heed these words please, JUNK THE TANK.

Please, cut the tank into small pieces. One pin hole = lot more to come.

The tank is a Certified Pressure Vessel, most likely Certified by the manufacturer under the guide lines of ASME. Legally you can’t repair or modify a tank unless you have the Certification. I know that it can be done and you may be a great welder, you really don’t want a defective pressure vessel around your shop or family. I know a guy whose young son was killed by a pressure vessel at his home. He placed him on the tank just prior to the tank rupture.
 
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CNGsaves

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Let's see the tank. Where are the pin hole leaks??

How bad is the rust on interior of tank . . have you taken out ********* plugs and looked inside??

:needpics:
 

mayday0017

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If you have MTR's on the origional tank and the piece you are welding in and know how to write your own WPS to meet whatever requirements needed then go for it. But it is not as simple as cut X off and weld X to it. You might need to heat treat / stress relieve the heat effected area.

At my job I could easily ask favors of people and exceed the safety requirements needed, but in a home garage not so much...

Edit: With that said, if you want to go for it then do it... Just please be safe, and make sure to use water for pressure testing air/gas is way to dangerous. Make sure to test to at least 1.5x max working pressure. In my industry we are required to hydro test to 2.5x max working pressure and hold it with a chart recorder for minium 1 hour. Many times we are required to cycle test it and hold for longer durations.
 
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galute

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Heed these words please, JUNK THE TANK.

Please, cut the tank into small pieces. One pin hole = lot more to come.

The tank is a Certified Pressure Vessel, most likely Certified by the manufacturer under the guide lines of ASME. Legally you can’t repair or modify a tank unless you have the Certification. I know that it can be done and you may be a great welder, you really don’t want a defective pressure vessel around your shop or family. I know a guy whose young son was killed by a pressure vessel at his home. He placed him on the tank just prior to the tank rupture.

Thanks for your concern. Rest assured I am very familiar with the safety concerns of a pressure vessel. I deal with them daily.
 
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galute

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Let's see the tank. Where are the pin hole leaks??

How bad is the rust on interior of tank . . have you taken out ********* plugs and looked inside??

:needpics:

No pics. I am 850 miles away from it at the moment. Not even sure when I will get to it. I am qualified however to inspect it before, during and after repairs are made.
 
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galute

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If you have MTR's on the origional tank and the piece you are welding in and know how to write your own WPS to meet whatever requirements needed then go for it. But it is not as simple as cut X off and weld X to it. You might need to heat treat / stress relieve the heat effected area.

At my job I could easily ask favors of people and exceed the safety requirements needed, but in a home garage not so much...

Edit: With that said, if you want to go for it then do it... Just please be safe, and make sure to use water for pressure testing air/gas is way to dangerous. Make sure to test to at least 1.5x max working pressure. In my industry we are required to hydro test to 2.5x max working pressure and hold it with a chart recorder for minium 1 hour. Many times we are required to cycle test it and hold for longer durations.

Hmmm.... sounds like we have similar jobs.
 

signcrafter

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Not to start a ******* match but your not just dealing with a pin hole leak. If it rusted threw the rest isn't far behind.

Also I would think that if you are qualified you would be able to source the material pretty easy.
 

DirtRoad

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Also I would think that if you are qualified you would be able to source the material pretty easy.

Thinking the same thing.

If someone is qualified in this type of thing seems odd to even ask the question at all.

Im confused about the whole "parts" thing. What parts are you talking about? You have a rusted through tank, its a tank, it dont have "parts" in the sense that there isnt anything to remove other than the drain bung and you can get one of those anywhere.
 

bran1har

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just weld the pinhole, thats what id do. Or find a new tank, not too hard, it may not be far from more pinholes though.
 

All

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Rest assured I am very familiar with the safety concerns of a pressure vessel. I deal with them daily.


Like the others, it is hard to get past the irony of "being quite capable" and yet not knowing what to get or where to get it. I think that most people would have the same concern, for both you and your wife, who is the one who discovered the leak.

The professionals I've recently had a chance to meet who work with pressure vessels every day have ultrasonic thickness testers, and follow a regular schedule of checking tanks for thickness, and therefore would likely have proactively discovered the tanks condition before their family members did, either innocently or catastrophically.

I sure wish I had access to a UT tester. If I dealt with pressure vessels daily at work, I'd certainly avail myself to whatever tools that OSHA requires in the work place for periodic tank inspections.

I'd also know to look at the welded tag on the tank and note the National Board registration number. I'd contact the National Board and order the MDR for that specific tank. The NB has records of all ASME certified pressure vessels made since 1929. I'd order the U1A report for the tank. You no doubt know what all these acronyms mean, and how to order the report, etc.

And you also no doubt know that the report isn't entirely necessary, because the most basic information is already stamped into the tag on the tank, including the minimum shell and head thickness at the MAWP. It may even have the material type used. If it doesn't, then the report might be helpful if ordering a new head for the bottom.

Also, you probably know that the steel used in pressure vessels has particular characteristics... there is a very large spread between the yield and tensile strengths, typically 45ksi y to 75ksi t, and there are other properties that justify why just regular ol carbon sheet steel is not as suitable as the steel that is optimized for air receivers.

So, assuming that you already know that the SA414 Grade G is the most likely and probably the most suitable material used for that type of tank, then maybe you were just wondering about the ratio of the head as an engineered element of the end bell of a tank. Even without your experience, you might have noticed the stampings on the ASME tag welded on your tank stated 2:1 Elliptical ratio.

A quick google of these terms... tank head, SA414G, and 2:1 Elliptical Ratio reveals a smorgasboard of useable links on the first page. Even the first line hits on sources of pre formed tank heads. You might have some of these companies on the rolodex at work, but in case that rolodex is buried under all the other pressure vessel testing welding and procedures piled on the desk, here is a link to get started...

http://hansontank.us/semi-elliptical-tankheads-12-20inches.html

Some already have a beveled edge. Some have a square edge. It depends on how you want to join the seam... **** weld or lap weld, with lap being the most typical for the girth seam holding the head. The U1A will state how the OEM did it, and what percentage of efficiency you might be trying to match with that seam.

Of course, the heads don't come pre drilled, and don't have a thicker bung welded on for material to tap NPT for a drain hole. But that's probably just an inconvenient nit for someone with your experience. No big deal.

Minimum order is $400... which of course would by a new 60 gallon tank or even an entirely new or nearly new Sears 60 gallon compressor.

You'll have to weigh the cost benefit ratio of welding onto an already thinning consumer grade tank from Sears that has been exposed to 20 years of fatigue stress and thermal cycling and may not have been maintain, much less periodically inspected/tested, for much of that period of time.

Your experience and professional exposure to pressure vessels will no doubt guide you to the best course of action to take, without anyone's help on an internet chat board of home garage enthusiasts.
 

marinusdees

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Weld it up. It will only leak again if it has another pinhole. Air tanks develop leaks, they do not explode like a bomb. Once they rupture, you have a leak, not an explosion. They are NOT bombs. The bomb is an urban legend. You cannot weld it with pressure in the tank because the pressure will blow out the weld. Use a wirefeed. A stickwelder will leak because of the shielding material on the rod. If you finish the weld and have a slight leak, center punch the leak or leave it and it will rust shut.
I have built several compressors using old refrigeration compressors and hot water heater tanks as receivers. The tanks are rated at 300psi and the air molecule is larger than the freon molecule so refrigeration compressors are built to closer tolerances than air compressors. I can already hear the purists yelling, "there is no air molecule". I know that, but air is 80% N and some other gases, but the freon molecule is smaller. You can use the safety pressure relief valve in the hot water heater tank. If you're worried, don't let your kids sit on the tank and build a framework around it. Or, put it outside.
 
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CNGsaves

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Weld it up. It will only leak again if it has another pinhole. Air tanks develop leaks, they do not explode like a bomb. Once they rupture, you have a leak, not an explosion. They are NOT bombs. The bomb is an urban legend. You cannot weld it with pressure in the tank because the pressure will blow out the weld. Use a wirefeed. A stickwelder will leak because of the shielding material on the rod. If you finish the weld and have a slight leak. center punch the leak or leave it and it will rust shut.

Oh my, I can only hope you do NOT have your own air compressor, or ANY power equipment. Your disregard for truth and safety is a danger to yourself and others around you.

There is great feature of GJ called Advanced Search !! Take the 20 seconds that might save your life and search exploding air tanks. There are prior threads where part of guy's leg was blown off from small 20 gal air tank that EXPLODED blowing out the entire bottom.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86685&highlight=exploding+air+tank

Look at the 2nd pic in post # 5 . . . . that right there is EXPLOSION.

You'll find many more examples with a Google search.

Instead of spewing ****, how about use Search and Google and learn yourself something.
 

OldNeons

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I believe "ALL" has answered this once and for all, for all of us. No pun intended of course. Thanks for taking the time to post such a thorough response.
 

Kevin C

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Just based on the difficulty and cost of getting a tank end, I would look for a used tank of the correct rating and possibly from an oil less system. Seems like a lot of them only last a couple of years so it might be easy to find a relativity new tank for short money. The down side is you lose the nostalgic value of having the original tank.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201317

Used tank in this thread....
 
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Falcon67

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Back up a little - if it's 20 years old and a "6 HP" unit, that very likely means it's a base model with a 3HP 240V motor on it. The "6 HP" on the older units is marketing BS. The fix is worth way more than the unit, in that case. I have a nice 25 gallon "6 HP" portable - it's the same way. Nice unit, worth maybe $100 tops because it's clean and lived in doors it's whole life. I paid $329 for that one and my big 60 gallon was $399, bought 10 years later. And the 60 is a 3.2 HP unit. A real 6 HP unit is a BIG compressor.
 
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Rookie2

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"What does it matter !"
Some of you must need to be at the Bengahazi hearings ! then we'll get the truth.
I mig welded mine years ago ! worst that can happen is it will leak in another rust spot.
 

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porschedude996TT

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Thinking the same thing.

If someone is qualified in this type of thing seems odd to even ask the question at all.

Im confused about the whole "parts" thing. What parts are you talking about? You have a rusted through tank, its a tank, it dont have "parts" in the sense that there isnt anything to remove other than the drain bung and you can get one of those anywhere.

I think he has a vertical 60 gal tank. The pin hole would be in the lower dome / bell / head, whichever word works for you. Many tank makers buy the spun or hydro-formed ends.
 
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galute

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I think he has a vertical 60 gal tank. The pin hole would be in the lower dome / bell / head, whichever word works for you. Many tank makers buy the spun or hydro-formed ends.

Finally, some one gets it. Thank you.

As far as some of the other reply's. I never said I worked on air compressors. I do work with pressure vessel's. Getting a 20" (if that is what it is, won't know for sure until I get to it) end cap would be very easy for me. Problem is, we don't deal with stuff that low pressure. The least I have been able to come up with so far is a .375 wall and they are about 400 bucks. That is why I asked if anyone knew where to get "air compressor tank parts". I probably could come up with one easy enough but it would not be worth the hassel of makeing it fit.And no, they are not just tanks, there are several parts to them. They have 2 end caps, a piece of pipe or sheet metal rolled into a pipe with a welded seam, feet, motor mounts and several assorted weld o lets. If I could get the correct cap from the correct manufacturer it would be an exact fit with the correct specifications for the application. I would then cut the bottom off, inspect the integrity of the rest of the tank then determine if it's fit to be repaired. If so, weld the new bottom on. Set it outside, place a barrier between me and it and hydro test the damn thing. It's not rocket science.

I know I can get a new tank. The compressor is not worth what one cost. As far as used, well, I trust my abilities to repair this one more than I would one I know nothing about. I am fully aware of what can happen when a failure occurs. I have seen about a dozen or so holes blown in the ground big enough to set most home shops down into when something fails during a test.

Another thing, I don't need this compressor. I have another 5hp 80 gallon that is only 3 years old. I just thought it would be a fun project to save my Dad's old compressor.
 

signcrafter

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I don't think most tank manufacturers will sell people just an end cap. Would think that would be a liability thing since they can't pressure test it. They might but just seems like in todays liability crazy world I don't see manufacturers selling "tank parts".
 

onewaydave

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galute, if the end cap is leaking because of a pin hole with rust on the other/inside, then finding a used tank and cutting the upper end cap off to use would seem to make sense. I've never seen the inside of a compressor tank but I presume it rusts in the dependant section where water settles.

These threads are always fun to read.


Dave.
 
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galute

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I don't think most tank manufacturers will sell people just an end cap. Would think that would be a liability thing since they can't pressure test it. They might but just seems like in todays liability crazy world I don't see manufacturers selling "tank parts".

Sadly enough, you may very well be right about that.
 
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galute

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galute, if the end cap is leaking because of a pin hole with rust on the other/inside, then finding a used tank and cutting the upper end cap off to use would seem to make sense. I've never seen the inside of a compressor tank but I presume it rusts in the dependant section where water settles.

These threads are always fun to read.


Dave.

This could work. Maybe find a used tank. If it looks good hydro it. If it passes use it as is. If not maybe salvage the top. Good idea. Thanks Dave.
 

MoonRise

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Take existing tank and remove pump and motor.

Turn rusty leaking old tank into something else besides a pressure vessel. Turn it into a nice grill or smoker.

Go to an industrial supplier (Grainger, in a pinch, 60 gallon vertical tank with motor/pump mounting 'pad' is ~$980, item #5Z364) and order a replacement 60 gallon ASME-certified tank. Install your existing pump and motor onto the replacement tank and get on with life.

Do NOT-NOT-NOT even attempt to repair the leaky old tank. Scrap it.

You said that you've seen the holes blown in the ground from failed pressure vessels and that you don't "need" this old air compressor. So scrap it and turn it into something that is not a pressure vessel.
 
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galute

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You will all be happy to hear that after close inspection of the tank I have deemed it not worthy of repair.

The fighter jets have been recalled.
The battle ships are returning to base.
The zombies are on stand down.
The USS Enterprise has lowered it's shields.
The Martians have holstered their ray guns.

Life may resume as you know it.
 
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galute

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Did you find a suitable replacement?

Maybe. I've been looking. I found a place where I can get a new tank for about 300 bucks at a place that does industrial air compressor repair about 70 miles from me. I talked to the guy on the phone and he said he had several used horizontal tanks if I wanted to go that route for less money. I may drive down one day this week and see what he has.
 

All

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Finally, some one gets it. Thank you.


I think we all "got it" after your first post. I know I did, and provided you with detailed information, while still knowing that even with all that information you would end up in the exact same place you are in right now.

In defense of those who may have seemed to you to not "get it" , they were likely just giving you the cliff note short cut version to save you some time.

Good luck! :beer:
 
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galute

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I think we all "got it" after your first post. I know I did, and provided you with detailed information, while still knowing that even with all that information you would end up in the exact same place you are in right now.

In defense of those who may have seemed to you to not "get it" , they were likely just giving you the cliff note short cut version to save you some time.

Good luck! :beer:

Uhh.. ummm.. no. I don't think you did get it. If you did you would of provided some useful information about the question asked which was "does any one know where I can get air compressor tank parts". You provided nothing what so ever that had anything to do with that question. You didn't provide any detailed information about anything. Have you inspected the tank? Have you even seen it? How can you make any recommendations on something sight unseen? Surely, as you should know, the first thing required is a visual inspection. As far as your first post. You started out with " all the guys I know that do this". Do you know how to do this or do you just know some guys? Since you know some guys why do you find it so hard to believe that I may be one of those guys that do this? I stated more than once that I do this for a living. The rest of your post I only gave a quick glance for a couple of reasons. First, nothing useful it it for the question at hand. The condescending tone in which it was written tell's me your only purpose was to make yourself look good and me look bad. Might of impressed those that have little knowledge of testing pressure vessel's but it didn't do much for me. Kinda like your next post is merely to gloat. Another thing, all that stuff you spent all that time posting is what guy's sitting in an office do but really don't have much to do with the guy's in the field actually doing the work.

Oh.. BTW.. you left out a lot of detail. Such as the equations for allowing for elevation and elevation changes and ambient temps vs static temps just to name a couple of the simple ones. :beer:
 

All

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If you did you would of provided some useful information about the question asked which was "does any one know where I can get air compressor tank parts". You provided nothing what so ever that had anything to do with that question.


Maybe you missed this link for the compressor tank head parts you asked for? (Provided to you in first response.)

http://hansontank.us/semi-elliptical-tankheads-12-20inches.html



You didn't provide any detailed information about anything.

Maybe you missed the following detailed information, also provided in the same first response?

Material to look for to repair and match the existing material properties of pressure vessels for compressed air:

Carbon Steel Type: SA-414
Grade: Grade G
Yield Strength: 45 ksi
Tensile Strength: 75 ksi

Formation to look for for replacing the head of an air receiver:

Contour: Semi elliptical
Ratio: 2:1

Resource to consult for existing tank construction, material, rating, thickness and testing details:

Agency: National Board
Report to request: U-1A
Also Known As: Manufacturer's Data Report (MDR)

Since replacement heads are sold with beveled edges and square edges, as an example, it seemed like the original MDR might be useful, if the goal was to rebuild the tank as before.

Along with a link to the seller of tank heads that fit the description, the above material and formation terms help hone in on a search for other vendors of tank heads, so that you could compare competing prices.

That's is fairly in depth detail for a chat forum of garage tinkerers, all of which was all contained in the first post that you say you "only gave a quick glance" to.

If you felt offended by any of this information, then please accept my apologies. I'm not an expert, nor have I represented myself as one who knows what they are doing. I'm simply sharing the information that I learned over the course of addressing my own air compressor tank corrosion issues.
 
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galute

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Maybe you missed this link for the compressor tank head parts you asked for? (Provided to you in first response.)

http://hansontank.us/semi-elliptical-tankheads-12-20inches.html

You are right, I did miss that link. Sorry about that. As you also pointed out, with a $400 minimum order it's not a viable option for this compressor. Thanks anyway.

I did see however that they offer a 20" .250 wall cap for 100 bucks each. I could order 4 of them and meet the minimum order requirements. I have a 10' piece of .250 wall pipe in the scrap. I could cut it in two and make two 100 gallon tanks... hmmm.... JUST KIDDING!! Please put away the rope.
 
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