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air hose coupler help...

John T

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trying to set up my new compressor...

want to get the most air outof it I can.... just because.



running 1/2" black pipe to filters (1/2" connections)

to a 1/2" hose reel.



but all my air tools have a 1/4" female IN



on the old system I used the home depot/Amflo couplers... (1/4")



Is there something better for me?



I already screwed up and ordered a bunch of 1/2" Milton G style couplers....

they are HUGE :lol:



any recommendation or just stick with the amflos?
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MEngineer

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I was in the same boat as you last year and bought Milton type "V" couplers.
They are a high flow standard thread connection.
 

MEngineer

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also to note, the milton type "V" female coupler will accept an Industrial type male fitting. I have noticed that most of my used pneumatic tools have the industrial couplers on them already. I have only changed out the tool side fitting when I had a need for more air flow.
 
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John T

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Actually I think I just answered my own question

When you look down into the end of the 1/2” hose
Off the reel
It narrows down internally to about 1/4”


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John T

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Actually I take that back

A 5/16” bit fits loose in the end of the hose

No go on the amflo

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John T

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so I guess the question is:

how much do you actually lose when you choke it down at the tool connection....
 
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John T

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I was in the same boat as you last year and bought Milton type "V" couplers.
They are a high flow standard thread connection.

Milton V

ok thanks....

maybe northern will take these back and I'll buy those...
 

ItsNemo

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Milton V's all the way. The V couplers will accept M's and A's as well, so no need to switch all tools over to V's at the same time.
 

zmotorsports

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Milton "V" series is what I've been using for a lot of years now with great results. I have also heard good things about the Prevost and CEJN fittings but I do not have any first hand experience with either to back up the claims.
 

sberry

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That much choke doesn't hurt much there. The 5/16 for that short distance is pretty good. The real loss with hi draw tools, namely a 1/2 air gun is thru a hose and you eliminate most of it with the 1/2 hose.
A 3/8 hose can lose a pound a foot with a heavy gun. Rotary tools, some other stuff not so critical. The object isn't to use as much air as you can but to make effecient use and be adequate to get the work done.
 
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John T

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That much choke doesn't hurt much there. The 5/16 for that short distance is pretty good. The real loss with hi draw tools, namely a 1/2 air gun is thru a hose and you eliminate most of it with the 1/2 hose.
A 3/8 hose can lose a pound a foot with a heavy gun. Rotary tools, some other stuff not so critical. The object isn't to use as much air as you can but to make effecient use and be adequate to get the work done.

Thanks Berry

Ive read quite a few of your posts concerning air.

it's helped a lot. :beer:
 

sberry

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This is part of the reason for 2 stage air. It's start pressure is about where single is shutting off. There is enough headroom to make up for line loss. This is a place, depending on demand and requirement where a larger hose is benificial,,, single stage comps. Impact is the main concern. Some loss on a tool like a sander let's say isn't such a deal, in short order it's running out of air fast anyway which is usually more of a factor than top end. Some line resistance saves air.
A bigger hose helps waste air. With the impact it helps the performance by keeing the pressure up by reducing line loss.
After a while all this becomes instinct, voltage or line loss and how important it is. The learning curve can be steep, At first loss can be a worrisome thought, in practice doesn't mean so much as long as the work is getting done.
It's similar to electric. Take a common 120v circuit for example. During the garage design stage there is a tendency to assume cause there is a 20A breaker on it and some chart lists v drop at 100 ft that this is the real applied load when most common is 13 max and distance is usually way closer to 60 ft max than 100.
Even a heavy chip saw,, drops from 121 or higher to 115 or so for a few seconds to make a cut is irrelevant. Couldn't save a nickel on electric in decades. It would be different if it was overloaded 24/7. At 7A from a grinder or drill, maybe less even less important. People find it here to believe you can run a circular saw from 100 ft of 16, don't need a 1w to sing off a 2x4 or a piece of roof sheating.
 
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John T

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Whats the best way to go from male 1/2" hose end to 3/8 or 1/4" V coupler?

can't seem to find a brass 1/2" Female to 3/8 or 1/4 ....

Hate to use black pipe fittings..... they are quite cumbersome...
 
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John T

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looks like Grainger has Female 1/2" to Male 3/8 brass...

don't mind me... I'm just thinking out loud...
 

jptbay

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Love these couplers. http://ariatools-inc.com/

Stainless, high flow, tough as nails, come in 1/2 NPT versions.

HSF202-c-1.jpg
 

PT Doc

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Prevost safety couplers. Simply a pleasure to use. The green button is a high flow and comes in various npt threaded ends.
 
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Tallpilot

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I like Milton. M style 1/4” will do 40 SCFM. V style will do 74. It takes a pretty serious compressor before the couplers are a bottleneck. Your 1/2” line will lose less over 50’ than a 3/8”. What SCFM does your compressor output at 90 psi?

I use 3/8” hose and set my regulator at 100 psi to get 90 at my tools. Of course many choose to run tools at higher pressures.
 
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md21722

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Since you have a dual stage air oppressor, I think are you trying too hard. With dual stage you can crank the pressure up and run the smaller, lighter hose. 1/2" hose is for 3/4" impact wrenches and stuff like that. I run a 25' 3/8" hose and use Milton V couplers. I set the regulator at about 110 to get 90 working pressure.
 
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John T

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Since you have a dual stage air oppressor, I think are you trying too hard. .

Perhaps.

It couldn't hurt though.

I enjoy a little overkill. :p


speaking of black pipe and rust.... I am finding very little on the pipes I am re-using. especially after 18 years....

the only thing I found was a few blobs of rector-seal 5
where I was kinda heavy handed...

This time I'm a little more careful
 
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Tallpilot

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15.4 SCFM @ 90 PSI

does that sound right?

It's a Quincy QT-54

That sounds correct. At that flow rate you will lose about 4 PSI through 50' of 3/8" hose and .7 PSI through 50' of 1/2" hose. You will lose about 1 PSI through each 1/4" NPT fitting. If you want 90 PSI at the tool add up the pressure drops and increase the regulator to that value or just spitball it at 100 PSI.

Your flow rate will be limited to 40 SCFM through M style or 74 through V style couplers until you drain the tank enough that it is down to the pump rate. But most automotive type tools will only draw 10 cfm or less. If you are trying to run a blast cabinet or a jackhammer then you will have issues.

If you find a tool doesn't seem to be working as well as you would like feel free to try a little more pressure but be aware it may cause premature wear on the tool.

http://www.about-air-compressors.com/estimating-pressure-drop.html

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-consumption-tools-d_847.html
 
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md21722

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That sounds correct. At that flow rate you will lose about 4 PSI through 50' of 3/8" hose and .7 PSI through 50' of 1/2" hose. You will lose about 1 PSI through each 1/4" NPT fitting. If you want 90 PSI at the tool add up the pressure drops and increase the regulator to that value or just spitball it at 100 PSI.

Your flow rate will be limited to 40 SCFM through M style or 74 through V style couplers until you drain the tank enough that it is down to the pump rate. But most automotive type tools will only draw 10 cfm or less. If you are trying to run a blast cabinet or a jackhammer then you will have issues.

If you find a tool doesn't seem to be working as well as you would like feel free to try a little more pressure but be aware it may cause premature wear on the tool.

http://www.about-air-compressors.com/estimating-pressure-drop.html

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-consumption-tools-d_847.html

What's missing is that air tools are frequently rated in CFM which is some sort of industrial average rating. A die grinder that's rated 5 CFM will typically use around 17-20 SCFM. So the air drop is typically higher. Around 0.4 PSI/foot for 3/8" hose for many tools used in the automotive world.
 

Tallpilot

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Very interesting. I see now cfm figures for air tools are based on a 25% duty cycle. That explains the low seeming numbers. Thank you.
 

sberry

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Yes, a heavy 1/2 air gun can lose almost a pound to the foot thru 3/8, the connector often doesn't add much to the whole deal.
I happen to use type H, I started with them and got a big box on sale and simply stayed with them. They are hard to couple compared to some of the new ones but they come in all input sizes. They are rated the same, 1/2 in or 1/4 but it makes them good for larger hoses. I used them with the thought I wouldn't have to change connectors with heavy tools and 1/2 hoses.
At one point I needed it, still have 1/2 hose on the reel on ,my service truck, could add a section of 3/8 to it without a coupler change if needed. But todays smaller couplers have hi ratings and are much easier to use.
 

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sberry

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I worked on a job where they had 1000's of these. There were manifolds on the floor where you simply went and plugged in with this connector but we didn't go to the manifold. There were maybe 10 hydrants on them with these couplers and from there pieces of hose added with T's like a spider web out in to the plant and hung up in the ceilings and hallways all over the place. There were hundreds of these grinders, they7 actually issued a couple every day to teams and a guy simply found a place in between 2 hoses and added a 15 ft or so line in any place. There could certainly be 2 guys using the same circuit and there could be a lot of hose out with lots of T taps along the way.
Despite the unorganized deal it was we were nebver short of air to the tool and if we would be it would be no problem to wait a minute or rig something else but I cant ever remember being short. A lot of times a guy could simply unhook a whip to a t and use it a minute and things were so convoluted no one may actually be using down stream air or it could be coming from another circuit.
They had a similar deal for electric and portable rod ovens. A rubber Y , 2 way, they must have bought thousands, I cant even recall seeing where one was plugged in to a recept. They might have been 30A circuits, had a twist plug as I recall but all that has been well past 30 years ago and young where I didn't pay as much attn. to design as I would today. There wasn't other electric equipment and lights were pre hung on their own scheme. A big ole fat cord with hundreds of sockets with a lamp protector, strung up with air hose, big ole fat welding leads, argon hose, electric cord on hangers from ceilings along halls thru doors, in rooms out of rooms up floors, down them.
 
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sberry

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So what does this have to do with air. Its duty cycle and what it means to the diy type and even some shops. When its a single user a line can be managed 100% and doesn't matter if this hose reel is hooked to a 3/4 line with 1/2 drops especially if its regulated at the outlet. In the case of the power plant it was simply easier to let it go rather than micro manage it.
If one puts a T in to a line and runs 2 da sanders can feel a little drop when the second comes on but its not a natural disaster provided its got an adequate supply to begin with.
Contrary to belief can run a 5 hp sandblaster well out of air on a 3/8 hose. You can see an air gun test we ran around a 50 ft reel with 15 ft of hose, huge difference. Mechanics 2 stage air is designed to make up for this and the benefit to larger hose is on heavy impact with single stage, shorter hose works too, helps impacts which only work when the system may be completely pumped, also can simply charge portable air tank with feed hose and hook 3 ft hose to the gun, gain some tank size and reduce line loss.
1 man shop, 5 hp, 2 and 3 man 7.5 using common tools (not hogging all available air to sandblast) .
So if the same length of hose is ran back to the compressor it doesn't effect line loss, main size is irrelevant and there is some benefit to trunk and branch on long circuits, wide open with single user, with 2 users a home run to the unit is the same.
With Pex on water the hose is cheap, fittings expensive and often the cheapest easiest way is to run the line to a manifold at incoming vs using 2 different sizes and T in to it. Same with air, to run to a t 6 ft in a home system the line to the t doesn't need to be upsized or adding 5 more ft of 3/8 hose to 50 doesn't amount to much especially if its regulated between.
Doesn't mean I havn't seen restrictions in air, had a couple of my own got ignored and effected my 3/4 gun a little on top end but that was so rare it didn't mean much to the rest of the time.
The worry about loss in a home design is about like the worry over warranty over a Snapon wrench. As long as it gets enough air the rest of it is rarely a real factor. As long as the line prior to the regulator is as big as the one leaving there isn't appreciable loss on the main in most cases and had to qualify that with most,,,, very rare. The math is different than regulated gas or lp lines but follows the principle that its going to get regulated which leaves headroom making primary losses irrelevant.
 
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John T

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I like the airgun gauge

I need to make one of those


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sberry

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Only rarely do efficiency losses have an economic factor. Most full loads are low duty cycle and even if a circuit loses some voltage at 20A at 100 ft it doesn't mean much to a guy with a weed wacker 20 minutes once a week ir runs a drill or grinder intermittently especially at distance closer to 40 ft and rarely exceeding 60. Doesn't help to wire number 10 wire for a TV, would never pay to upgrade it from 100 ft of 16 let alone from 12 to 10 and 14is adequate, only reason to use larger is headroom for motor starts for the most part.
 
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SuzukiGS750EZ

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I too was worried about making the compressor I use as good as I could get it and then I switched to cordless tools (for home) and haven't looked back. I'm 4 years clean from my air tool addiction and it feels good. IR impacts, ratchets, lights and drivers.
 

sberry

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I like the airgun gauge

I need to make one of those


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There is a pic with a pile of parts there, this is a little collection can plumb forward or backward, even add a valve. I only used the valve in that case as a coupling to the connector plug to the gage.
There are fittings there to blow water lines. One there to adapt to other air fitting styles. If the losses are interesting one can adapt on to lines and see if the real is close to the imagination. I was on a line I added that too for a tool test the other day, 4o ft of 1/2 pipe at 135 to 50 ft of hose reel with 1 automotive style connector I had used and 1 good one, 120 still at a da, way beyond the real demand and had to regulate the dial on the tool.
 
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John T

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I too was worried about making the compressor I use as good as I could get it and then I switched to cordless tools (for home) and haven't looked back. I'm 4 years clean from my air tool addiction and it feels good. IR impacts, ratchets, lights and drivers.

yeah I see a lot more of that now.
I'm still with the dinasaur D'walt 18v
never fails everytime I'm in the middle of something the damn bat-tree dies...

someday I'll upgrade.

as far as the garage air, I just want to be able to blow the dust off my britches. :wtf:
 
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John T

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Speaking of air compressors..

Is it ever possible to have a completely leak proof plumbing system?

how much air loss per hour? is acceptable...

perhaps we need a poll ... If there isn't one already...

and of course with an auto tank drain of course you will lose some... according to the settings...

wondering about a closed system.
 
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John T

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Well
I got all my parts and everything buttoned up today.

Gotta say i’m tickled to death.
Thanks for the recommendation on the Milton V

Obvious difference for sure.

I set my regulator at 100 psi
It then goes through 71 feet of half-inch line
Black pipe/50 foot hose reel

I cobbled together two different gauges at the tool point and they both read about 96 to 97 psi.

Can’t ask for more than that.

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John T

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I put a piece of 3/4” rubber mat
Under the compressor

Haven’t bolted it or chained it down
I don’t think it’s moved
But it sure has a little jolt when it fires up.

Scare the heck out of you when you’re standing next to it



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sberry

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I cobbled together two different gauges at the tool point and they both read about 96 to 97 psi.

Can’t ask for more than that.
They should be the same at static or no flow. Under operation is where the losses are measured
 
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