Air Impacts are DEAD

[Ign]

I just looked at my HD order history as I have an account. I ordered this 6/23/16. I received it 6/28/16.

That means it went into my truck box right about 6/30/16. I've never used it or swapped the battery on it. It's been in my truck box ungaraged. I promise you it's seen plenty of days in the very high 90's, maybe a day or two over 100. This winter has been plenty of single digit nights and a few negative mornings.

I just now checked it because of this thread. STILL SHOWING FULLY CHARGED 4 BARS. And this is an older 3.0 battery too.

So let's see that's 7.5 months in non-climate controlled storage and no appreciable discharge.

 

[G-Ram]

My place of employment supplies cordless impacts. For the last month or so I have been giving my air impact a break. I have to say, I haven't been overly impressed with the cordless. It is rated for more ft/lb than my crappy air impact but doesn't produce... plus it's bigger, heavier, noisier. I'm not sold on them.


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[Mr_B]

My nano impact is half the weight and 2.5" shorter depth, it also 3rd o price and generally last decades with just bit of oiling.
While I'm pleased at torque of battery impacts the depth of head assembly and bulk of battery makes them useless for huge amount of confined space power/speed work I do with impact on vehicles. I love them when in remote scenarios or at breakers yard but in workshop quality compact air tools still got masive advantages and low costs, compact rigt angle air drill, stubby 3/8 air ratchet and nano impact makes my life far easier and resolves lot of problems quickly

 

[WittHay]

For a service truck I think the air impact is dead. I have the The Milwaukee Fuels from 3/8 to 3/4 and haven't run across a situation where a air impact is needed.
A gas compressor is noisy and uses gas. In a shop, air impacts will never be dead. They are lighter, have more speed adjustments and seem to last forever.

 

[woody6904]

For a service truck I think the air impact is dead. I have the The Milwaukee Fuels from 3/8 to 3/4 and haven't run across a situation where a air impact is needed.
A gas compressor is noisy and uses gas. In a shop, air impacts will never be dead. They are lighter, have more speed adjustments and seem to last forever.

Reading this thread makes you think nobody works outside the shop.

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[WhiskeyRanger]

My place of employment supplies cordless impacts. For the last month or so I have been giving my air impact a break. I have to say, I haven't been overly impressed with the cordless. It is rated for more ft/lb than my crappy air impact but doesn't produce... plus it's bigger, heavier, noisier. I'm not sold on them.


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What model is it?

 

[kwschumm]

I'm kind of surprised at all the people who don't own a cordless drill or other tools. My cordless impact is actually my least used tool. Between my drill, sawzall, 1/4 impact, Skil saw, angle grinder, new drill and impact, leaf blower, and weed whip, there are always batteries being charged or already charged and ready to go for my 1/2" impact. Even before I had most of that stuff, keeping a battery on the charger wasn't an issue. Lithiums don't self discharge like the nicads used to, contrary what many folks here seem to believe.

I certainly do have a cordless drill, cordless sawzall, cordless circular saw, cordless jigsaw, cordless screwdriver, cordless blower, and maybe one or two other cordless things. Great for work around the house. But I work on cars way more than the house. I'm on my third cordless drill due to batteries. First was Craftsman, then a DeWalt, then another DeWalt. This one is two years old with lithium ion batteries and it's holding up well. The other tools haven't seen near the use of the drill so battery life is an unknown. I'm not anti-cordless tools, but in the shop I prefer air.

 

[kwschumm]

Uh huh. And Dell and Lenovo have zero to do with M18 power tools in the shop. I don't even care if the cells are the same, we're talking very different draw rates, useage and total capacities......unless your laptops are running 5 and 9 amp hour batteries at 18V.

This is like saying the newest Ford Ranger can't tow 11k pounds so trucks are still evolving.

I don't doubt your data and experience, it just has very little bearing on cordless tools in actual use. I'm still using M18 batteries from 2008 that work fine in my tools. Has life shortened? Probably. But an impact is heavy but sporadic draw. A laptop is constant, low draw.

Yeah, but your post said how much battery TECHNOLOGY has improved. Are you now spinning that lithium ion batteries for laptops use different energy storage chemistry than lithium ion batteries for tools?

 

[tvtaurus]

We are getting to the point that battery operated tools are becoming more and more common to use in shops. The two things that air tools still have going for them is the universal power source, and longevity. Nothing to charge, and they will last nearly forever if properly oiled and maintained.

 

[KMdef9]

The thread title said IMPACT not tools. The DeWalt 899 is $229, $50 cheaper than air. Once you buy the hoses, fittings, and oil for the air tool, you could buy a replacement battery in addition to the two or three you could buy for the cost of an air compressor.

Typo on my end, but the content of my post still addressed IMPACTs. So don't know why you pointed that out.

$229 is for the tool only, so try again. $350
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X52TWA4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And you can only buy 2 batteries for the price of the compressor, not 3:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KQU1ENG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Fittings and oil come with the tool and OP has a hose already. If not, $6:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BOAB9K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

That's a bet I'd take. A $150 HF compressor under heavy use will seize a piston before an M18 battery will stop acceptably charging and discharging.

If we could set up a controlled test, I'd love to wager. But we both know that can't/won't happen.

And sure, the guy who never changes the oil, but with regular maintenance, that shouldn't happen, just like getting a lemon battery.

A battery being "dead" can have multiple meanings too. Certainly stop acceptably charging and discharging are one. I consider a battery dead when it's work time significantly shortened, or doesn't perform at peak performance any longer. Others may differ, but the conditions I stated mean the battery is holding up my job with more changing and charge time. Once again, under heavy use.




I've seen these li batteries take a dump in a year, this is under heavy use, which is apparent most don't put these batteries under. Lugs in the rust belt are no tough task. Especially if the lugs are getting serviced regularly. But if you don't use them under heavy load all the time, I know they'll last longer. Hell, I still have nicd for my old school dewalt 1/4 impact. But that doesn't get used on cars. It hangs pictures, so of course it'll last longer.






My comments are on the thread title and direction, which has turned into a blanket statement that air impacts are dead (as others have pointed out, just the way the Internets works). As much as everyone likes their new to the market cordless tools, they haven't killed anything but their predecessor. And as I said before, cordless has their place, just like air. There's no single tool that's king of the hill for all repairs for all people. I certainly couldn't tell people what works for them or what doesn't for their situation, and vice versa.

 

[WhiskeyRanger]

Typo on my end, but the content of my post still addressed IMPACTs. So don't know why you pointed that out.

$229 is for the tool only, so try again. $350
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X52TWA4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And you can only buy 2 batteries for the price of the compressor, not 3:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KQU1ENG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Fittings and oil come with the tool and OP has a hose already. If not, $6:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BOAB9K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

You used a bare air tool, an apt comparison it to a bare electric. The air tool requires a compressor that works for other air tools, the cordless requires a battery that works with other cordless. You can buy cheaper aftermarket batteries that actually do a great job, comparable to a HF compressor. You can get smaller batteries than the 5ah you posted that are lighter (weight is a common complaint here) and much cheaper. Ever accepting that you want to make Ops hose as free unlike the batteries since he has both, there is still no cost saving for air over electric when including all the costs associated with the system.

ETA: As I said earlier, there are valid arguments for and against both.

 

[tonyx]

There are places where any spark is danger to the working environment. This is where air tool can not be replaced by electric one. Another area is where there are dripping oil and mess, I can see electric impact dying in minutes. Sorry if this is repeat of an earlier post.

 

[kythri]

I'm kind of surprised at all the people who don't own a cordless drill or other tools. My cordless impact is actually my least used tool. Between my drill, sawzall, 1/4 impact, Skil saw, angle grinder, new drill and impact, leaf blower, and weed whip, there are always batteries being charged or already charged and ready to go for my 1/2" impact. Even before I had most of that stuff, keeping a battery on the charger wasn't an issue. Lithiums don't self discharge like the nicads used to, contrary what many folks here seem to believe.

I own plenty of 18V cordless tools - just not in the brand being discussed, and the impact offerings aren't up to air impact snuff.

I actually have the second generation Ryobi 18V 1/2" impact gun. It's great for removing wheels/tires where I don't have air, but it's not a replacement for an air impact.

Sure, this could be considered a failing of the brand. Whatever.

Since the thread brought up a specific brand tool, one has to consider the investment to get into that system and utilize that tool.

Will Ryobi someday release something the equivalent of what's in the Milwaukee line-up? Possibly, but it's going to be a few years, at best.

What I've got works for me.

Air impacts aren't dead.

For me.

 

[-Brent-]

While I'll agree that my impact driver has become one of my most-used tools, I haven't had a need to justify a purchase of anything else in the Milwaukee cordless platform. During a larger job I did pick up another battery. Along with accessories (bits and such), that's been it.

I have 2 pneumatic and a corded impact and I've never run up against something that has left me thinking, "I need a cordless." I did once cut the cord on the impact while working, and that sucked, but that was my own stupid mistake.

So, as far as impacts go, I don't think the cordless in the top three of most desirable tools in the platform. One tool I have considered, lately, is the M12 ratchet. I have a few assembly projects that would likely speed the job up. Still, I don't know how much I'd use it after those projects are done.

 

[Bobioz1]

Love these new Milwaukee Fuel impacts. Lots of power and long battery life. One thing they don't do as well as my air tools is transfer power through extensions and impact swivels.

 

[JJThrasher]

Its more expensive, heavier, slower, less powerful, & bulkier than my air gun. Not to mention the boss supplies the air and I have to supply my own batteries. Sorry, but air is far from dead. Might make sense in the home shop and for some uses in the pro shop, but I don't see it as a total replacement. I have an older 3/8s battery impact and a Bosch 12v set both of which I used damn near daily. I also have yet to see a 1" drive battery powered impact.

 

[Ktmrider83]

For all the people not happy with the power of the heavy duty impacts they are not buying the latest models. Yes they are pricey and large/heavy but they wont let you down when you need power.

Dewalt. DCF899
Milwaukee. 2763
Makita. Xwt08z

Spend the extra for the 6ah battery and I can guarantee you they all will not dissapoint.
I do alot of mobile repairs as well as working out of a home where a compressor cycling throughout the day would not work.. I use air for clutch fans or whenever else I need the air hammer and that's about it.

 

[Mr_B]

Battery only trump card is portability .
It useful and I own one but it not a replacement ...

 

[DerekV]

Are you now spinning that lithium ion batteries for laptops use different energy storage chemistry than lithium ion batteries for tools?

Laptops use cells of a different chemistry than power tools. They might be the same size cells, but that's their only similarity really.

 

[RBFD415]

Great thread, it brings 2 variety of thread posters head to head. 1 camp says the typical home workshop compressors are less than ideal. You need bigger shop style setups with longer duty cycle motors, higher PSI and after-coolers, dryers and so forth. For my part I have about a dozen air tools, everything shy of say a air scaler. It's all top quality stuff- mostly inherited from my father-in-law. These tools were used in a pro shop & are years old & still work for my interests around my shop. Running them off a home style compressor- not ideal - but works.

On the flip side- new surging cordless- with improved battery technology. Yet unproven life span of the tool. I went out of way today to find & look at the Milwaukee Fuel impact- it's impressive & impressively heavy! Looking at it- does it really make sense for me at this point to upgrade my compressor, piping & so forth- which I have concidered doing- when products like this are coming down the pike?

I suspect I'm not alone being caught between the 2 camps.

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[KMdef9]

You used a bare air tool, an apt comparison it to a bare electric. The air tool requires a compressor that works for other air tools, the cordless requires a battery that works with other cordless. You can buy cheaper aftermarket batteries that actually do a great job, comparable to a HF compressor. You can get smaller batteries than the 5ah you posted that are lighter (weight is a common complaint here) and much cheaper. Ever accepting that you want to make Ops hose as free unlike the batteries since he has both, there is still no cost saving for air over electric when including all the costs associated with the system.

ETA: As I said earlier, there are valid arguments for and against both.

Except an air comp works for all air impacts. Dewalt requires Dewalt specific batteries. Not a similar comparison at all, OP bought the Milwaukee.

Did the OP buy the kit or just the tool?

Please share links to aftermarket battery reviews where they state such. Everyone I've read says aftermarket is garbage to OEM.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I haven't used my IR 2135 qti since I bought my IR W7150. I bought a 3/8 Milwaukee fuel impact that I used the last few years and recently retired it and got an IR W5132 to replace it. I live cordless

 

[Sticks McGee]

I haven't used my IR 2135 qti since I bought my IR W7150. I bought a 3/8 Milwaukee fuel impact that I used the last few years and recently retired it and got an IR W5132 to replace it. I live cordless

How does that compare to the Milwaukee?

 

[Sticks McGee]

Love these new Milwaukee Fuel impacts. Lots of power and long battery life. One thing they don't do as well as my air tools is transfer power through extensions and impact swivels.

I agree. One thing I have found with the battery impacts. Socket fitment on the fastener even makes a difference. The more resistance it gets the harder it hits. The flex in an extension gives it the impression (so to speak) that less torque is needed and it doesn't hit as hard. Some slop in the socket does the same thing.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

How does that compare to the Milwaukee?

Tons better. I like the power adjustments in the back, the light and the angle of the head. It feels like it hits faster as well. I've had issues with the Milwaukee taking off certain nuts and bolts with extensions, the IR doesn't think twice.

 

[G-Ram]

What model is it?

Ingersoll Rand W7150 20V. We have 2 impacts and 4 batteries. No difference between the guns or batteries. Rated at 780 ft/lbs, I think my gun is like 500? and the shop only has 90-100psi of air on a good day. Usually more like 80 or 85psi....

 

[DakotaMan]

Great thread, it brings 2 variety of thread posters head to head. 1 camp says the typical home workshop compressors are less than ideal. You need bigger shop style setups with longer duty cycle motors, higher PSI and after-coolers, dryers and so forth. For my part I have about a dozen air tools, everything shy of say a air scaler. It's all top quality stuff- mostly inherited from my father-in-law. These tools were used in a pro shop & are years old & still work for my interests around my shop. Running them off a home style compressor- not ideal - but works.

On the flip side- new surging cordless- with improved battery technology. Yet unproven life span of the tool. I went out of way today to find & look at the Milwaukee Fuel impact- it's impressive & impressively heavy! Looking at it- does it really make sense for me at this point to upgrade my compressor, piping & so forth- which I have concidered doing- when products like this are coming down the pike?

I suspect I'm not alone being caught between the 2 camps.

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Where I'm lost is for people who already have a decent compressor and a garage full of air tools, why would they then go out and buy a set of similar tools powered by a battery. That doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Maybe if you needed a portable tool to take offsite. But it seems like some people are replacing a tool that they'd use in the same shop.


This discussion would seem most relevant to someone who started out with no tools. Then , I could see. But it's hard for me to imagine ditching my good air tools to sit and rust while I drop $5-600 on all the same tools powered by a battery.

 

[johninct]

Where I'm lost is for people who already have a decent compressor and a garage full of air tools, why would they then go out and buy a set of similar tools powered by a battery. That doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Maybe if you needed a portable tool to take offsite. But it seems like some people are replacing a tool that they'd use in the same shop.


This discussion would seem most relevant to someone who started out with no tools. Then , I could see. But it's hard for me to imagine ditching my good air tools to sit and rust while I drop $5-600 on all the same tools powered by a battery.

If my work that day is just a few bolts or bolts I know are not that tight , then for me, cordless is easier to use. On the other hand, I go right to air if I know the bolt is really tight or not that much room to get to.

 

[WildwoodChuck]

We use 20v max stuff at work, the 1/4" hex impact and sds plus rotary hammer were like new tools when we put the 60v batteries on them it's like a fully charged battery for way longer.

 

[hangfirew8]

Break a leg. Work out of town. Move across the country. Or just live.

4 years later, I get out my 70 year old air compressor, my 30 year old air hammer, my 10 year old IR 1/2" impact gun and my now-new Nano 3/8", put in a few drops of oil and get to work.

You, recycle $300 worth of dead batteries, go shopping and hope your battery system is still available.

Yes, cordless is getting better, and for many people, will replace air. That still won't stop them from overheating in constant use. Air tools are self-cooling. They will be around for a long, long time... especially because they keep working after long storage.

 

[American Locomotive]

Break a leg. Work out of town. Move across the country. Or just live.

4 years later, I get out my 70 year old air compressor, my 30 year old air hammer, my 10 year old IR 1/2" impact gun and my now-new Nano 3/8", put in a few drops of oil and get to work.

You, recycle $300 worth of dead batteries, go shopping and hope your battery system is still available.

I think that is going to be a big deal in the future for electric tools - especially with the brushless stuff. For example, on the M18 brushless 1/2" gun, the trigger, electronics and motor-stator are serviced as an assembly - at a cost of $140.

That's right, if you break the trigger button on an M18 Brushless tool, you have to buy an entirely new electronics and motor assembly for $140.

On the other hand, you can get an entire rebuild kit for an air impact (including new bearings) for around $40. Even at the absolute worst - say parts are NLA, the sliding vane motors in air tools are simple enough that you could probably make parts for a different tool work just fine.

 

[67King]

Where I'm lost is for people who already have a decent compressor and a garage full of air tools, why would they then go out and buy a set of similar tools powered by a battery. That doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Maybe if you needed a portable tool to take offsite. But it seems like some people are replacing a tool that they'd use in the same shop.

For the same reasons people who already have combo wrenches and ratchets buy ratcheting wrenches, convenience and time savings. I do not miss that hose. I do not miss having to swap between, let's say a drill and a ratchet (or more appropriately, a drill and an impact w/ a phillips head if I'm doing sheet metal work). I have one of each tool I need sitting right there, not dragging a dirty air hose over a fender, or whatever. The cordless are MUCH more convenient, and they make many (if not most) jobs MUCH quicker.

Used to think the same thing, but literally ALL of my friends who wrench for a living have been using cordless for years. So when I got an M12 1/4" hex impact kit on sale, I got it, and from there I kept adding to it.

Nevermind how often I use the cutting tools for projects around the house where pneumatic tools are not a good option.

 

[MushCreek]

I got the 'big' Milwaukee recently, as I work on old trucks and tractors. It's more powerful than my old Campbell-Hausfield. I also don't have a hose long enough to reach the U-Pull-It yard! In fact, one of the reasons I got it was because we have 7 acres, and things don't necessarily fail within reach of an air hose. I have 5 batteries, as I used all M18 tools to build my house and barn, so battery usage isn't an issue for me. I'm a hobbyist, so it won't see 40 hours work in a year.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I like the cordless for when I have to make a mobile repair as well or a quick repair. For all day work I'd still use air

 

[Dan_s_young]

Great thread, it brings 2 variety of thread posters head to head. 1 camp says the typical home workshop compressors are less than ideal. You need bigger shop style setups with longer duty cycle motors, higher PSI and after-coolers, dryers and so forth. For my part I have about a dozen air tools, everything shy of say a air scaler. It's all top quality stuff- mostly inherited from my father-in-law. These tools were used in a pro shop & are years old & still work for my interests around my shop. Running them off a home style compressor- not ideal - but works.

On the flip side- new surging cordless- with improved battery technology. Yet unproven life span of the tool. I went out of way today to find & look at the Milwaukee Fuel impact- it's impressive & impressively heavy! Looking at it- does it really make sense for me at this point to upgrade my compressor, piping & so forth- which I have concidered doing- when products like this are coming down the pike?

I suspect I'm not alone being caught between the 2 camps.

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As a technician, I have both. My goto is usually cordless due to not having to worry about a tangled air line that I trip over. I don't have to try and remember to oil my tool and to empty my water separator.

That being said there is certain applications where I still go back to pneumatic due to the required torque and space I have to work.

For a professional I definitely recommend both, the cordless ratchets are life changers though as far as work productivity goes. I got a 3/8" cordless
Ratchet at first, it didn't take me long to order a 1/4" as well.

Once again if your not flat rate, either works fine... but when your paid by your efficiency you need to tool up.

 

[Skin]

Cordless ratchets didn't impress me in the slightest. I purchased them along with some Kuani impacting ratchets and sold the former pretty quick. There is no comparison.

 

[Mr_B]

^ Indeed best is both, HUGE amount of things you can do with air and air tools that can't do with batteries. battery tools are nowhere near close compact size of current modern high power nano guns and air ratchets plus air tools are 3rd the cost and last decades .
For those times when don't want hassle of a air hose or out in yard or field then battery tool is indeed king and worth the buck spent but when want long term high power solution at low weight and small size so can be used easily in almost all space situations airtools are still king .
In production environment air tools still preferred as costing and lifespan is hugely superior and air hose no inconvenience. If you dragging a dirty air hose over a fender your working practice needs improving and hose options evaluated, battery impact would be useless for most shop work I do as simply too bulky to fit in space for engine work and also struggle for space sometimes in wheel wells doing suspension and hub work .
likewise when out in yard or at a breakers a nano airgun would be useless but couple battery tools super useful.
Conclusion is battery are great tools and improved a lot in last year but to assume airtools is redundant technology due to brushless motor and li-ion tools is simply ignorance of it's real world usage .

 

[Dan_s_young]

Cordless ratchets didn't impress me in the slightest. I purchased them along with some Kuani impacting ratchets and sold the former pretty quick. There is no comparison.

I also have an Ingersoll rand hammerhead, works good for disassembling things (but large and bulky), but I prefer the feedback feeling of the ratchet for installing fasteners. Usually I find I am dealing with large amounts of small fasteners 8mm, 10mm, 13mm and the added speed from the cordless ratchets especially in tight areas (where it's a pain to bend a twist an airline into position) is awesome.

Some examples that come to mind are any tight clearance valve cover bolts, any interior or dash work, installing mud flaps. I seem to find more and more applications everyday.

 

[jubilee]

As owner and heavy user of 2 3/8" air, 4 1/2" air, 2 3/4" air, 2 1" air, and 2 3/8" batt, 3 1/2" batt, and 1 3/8" batt ratchet---I say it will a LONG time before air tools disappear. If the could make a battery pack that strapped around your waist to get rid of the tool bulk, then all you need is a breaker bar and cheater to compliment the battery tool.

 

[Sugarfryz]

I have both, I'm a professional technician in a shop environment with a fantastic air supply. I have the Milwaukee 1/2 high torque 2763 18v, the 3/8 impact wrench 18v, Milwaukee 1/2 drill 18v, 18v light (useless to this thread), and an m12 1/4 in ratchet, using my 1/2 gun which is my most used tool my m18 batteries last a couple days. My 3/8 and 1/4 ratchet might last weeks. The 3/8 last so long because honesty it's not that powerful so I won't let it hammer for awhile, just grab my mg325 when I need it or my compact 1/2 if cleareance is an issue.


To me I only use my air if something is really stuck. My 2235ti comes out to play when something is truly that stuck, but my 2763 doesn't get stumped too much. One huge advantage to me is air is much faster, the ratchet especially is night and day difference. But for the most part I'm using cordless all day, other than my grinder.

The cordless tools are extremely heavy and people who bower it complain about it, to me I just got used to it. I used to think my 2235ti was heavy. Truly the weight of cordless tools doesn't bother me. I just don't like dragging an air hose around lift posts and having to untangle it, or move around to reach something.


I'm the exception in my shop tho, im truly the only one who uses cordless tools. We have a great air supply available, so my co workers for the most part think it's somewhat useless to spend the money. I agree with them, it isn't truly a need but more of a convenience, only use air when necessary.

Like I said I'm the black sheep in my shop, and yes if you have a great air supply it may be redundant, but the tool junky in me said "oh but I can bring them home to make money" (which ive done only once lol). In the end it's all truly down to personal preference, and nothing more. Some people may have air, try cordless and fall in love like I did, some people may never try because air works great, some people may try and hate cordless and stick with air. As long as you're happy and producing with the tools you bought is what truly counts.