Air vs Electric tools

[u3b3rg33k]

Aside from painting/blasting/plasma cutting, what applications favor air over electric? continuous use tools seem to be far from ideal for air power.

https://www.intlairtool.com/blog/th...ing-air-powered-grinders-instead-of-electric/

1. No Risk of Electric Shock
seems reasonable
2. Superior Ergonomics and Power to Weight Ratio
assuming you're in a proper shop, i suppose an air impact gun is slightly lighter than a beefy electric, probably a little cheaper too. definitely nice to not have to hold onto a large diameter motor
3. - Increased Productivity
maybe - if your compressor can keep up. the tool they use to compare to a dewalt grinder takes 42cfm to run. that's a big compressor to keep a couple body shop guys going simultaneously.
on the plus side, it means fewer motors/batteries to maintain.

4. - 100% Duty Cycle + High Performance in Harsh Environments
again, 100% duty cycle of a 42cfm tool means you need a 15hp or so compressor to keep up. probably a refrigerated dryer and oiler as well.
AFAIK you'll eventually overheat the gearbox of an electric grinder if you load it down hard and run it continuously before the motor has problems. probably not something you'll encounter if doing bodywork.
5. - Ease of Servicing
from a tool perspective, yes. support infrastructure, maybe?


I keep wanting a bigger compressor and more air tools, I just don't know if it really makes sense.

 

[cvairwerks]

Air wins out when there is any chance of a hazmat problem, or atmosphere. We work at times, with fuel in a tank within a foot of our air tools......

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I could see an advantage there for brushless or explosion proof motored tools. maybe nitrogen powered air tools for high risk situations? probably a win on tool cost for air tools here.
Assuming one wasn't using brushed motors, i would think not having low/no spark tool materials could present equal ignition risk.

 

[ChrisLS8]

Depends on the situation. At my work we never use air, it's not feasible and battery powered just works well

 

[sberry]

Air is power hungry and costly to operate. If you need it you need it.

 

[d.mcfarland]

For the average homeowner and weekend warrior the air tools would theoretically be cheaper initially and last longer therefore providing greater value. Assuming that the person is buying a large enough compressor and many different tools.

 

[rlitman]

For the average homeowner and weekend warrior the air tools would theoretically be cheaper initially and last longer therefore providing greater value. Assuming that the person is buying a large enough compressor and many different tools.

I guess. Though the investment in a sufficiently large compressor AND air distribution system can be significant. Plus there's the fact that it's not so easy to travel with air tools, since you're now for the most part locked to your hoses (though you can do some with with CO2).

 

[danielbuck]

I like running air powered angle grinder, and die grinders and cutoff grinder, mostly because they are smaller and you can feather the trigger. All of the electric grinders I've used are either on or off.

And when you let go of the trigger, air grinders stop a lot quicker. I know some newer electric grinders have a brake mechanism to stop them quicker, but my electric grinders don't have that.

I do grab my bigger 9" electric grinder when I really need to remove material.

Drilling holes, I prefer electric drill if there's room for it.

I do have a battery powered angle grinder, but man it's heavy and it's only 4.5", great to have on offroad and camping trips though.

I'll admit, on a hot day I enjoy the fact that air tools get colder the longer you use them . (not so much in the winter though!)

 

[gtsgarage]

With my new M12 ratchets and impacts plus the M12 inflator I’m not sure when I’ll use my air tools and compressor again.

I don’t miss the noise or the air hose one bit. Especially home owner special single phase compressors they are painful.

 

[danielbuck]

With my new M12 ratchets and impacts plus the M12 inflator I’m not sure when I’ll use my air tools and compressor again.

I don’t miss the noise or the air hose one bit. Especially home owner special single phase compressors they are painful.

I'm in the South Bay, let me know if you're selling off some air tools


One thing about air tools, unless they are in an every day all day use situation, they pretty much last forever. Electrics... I've gone through quite a few of them.... and I'm just a weekend hobbyist. I've never had to replace an air tool (except when they were stolen...)

 

[American Locomotive]

This thread comes up at least once a month or so, with nearly the exact same title. I recommend you search for previous threads, as many of them have a lot of good information and comparisons.

Electric and battery operated tools will replace air tools for most homeowners, but air has its place in the industrial world and will not be going anywhere soon.

 

[gtsgarage]

I'm in the South Bay, let me know if you're selling off some air tools


One thing about air tools, unless they are in an every day all day use situation, they pretty much last forever. Electrics... I've gone through quite a few of them.... and I'm just a weekend hobbyist. I've never had to replace an air tool (except when they were stolen...)

No way I’ll get rid of air. The big stuff is still air and that’s the beauty of air, as you said they last forever and they’ll be there when I need them.

 

[DakotaMan]

With my new M12 ratchets and impacts plus the M12 inflator I’m not sure when I’ll use my air tools and compressor again.

I don’t miss the noise or the air hose one bit. Especially home owner special single phase compressors they are painful.

I am in this boat with the M18s. It took my a while to trust battery powered, but for the average homeowner who only uses thier tools on the weekends, battery powered works. Even at my old house when I had an air setup, I still had to have a battery powered drill for other projects.

 

[hangfirew8]

This thread comes up at least once a month or so, with nearly the exact same title. I recommend you search for previous threads, as many of them have a lot of good information and comparisons.

Electric and battery operated tools will replace air tools for most homeowners, but air has its place in the industrial world and will not be going anywhere soon.

This. ^^^^^^^^

My 60gal high volume 220V came used for $300. My air distribution system is 2 quality Goodyear hoses. I had to do a little wiring and add a drip tube.

I use a 1950's air hammer (that just saved the day on a project last weekend) alongside a 1990's air ratchet and nearly new air tools. They all work fine the moment I grab them.

My newish 3" air cutoff tool is reversible and gets in places that my 4" corded cannot. It has saved me countless hours over dremel or other methods. It made the end link job on my Honda minutes instead of hours.

My cordless drill driver lives on my bench because there's no point putting it away.

Cordless will continue to eat into the air market, especially for the DIY user. But the moment you use the term "continuous use" air will be a necessary option because the tools don't overheat, and you don't need $400-500 of large heavy hi amp batteries to get through a full day.

And yes this topic keeps coming up over and over.... wonder why... ?

-HF

 

[u3b3rg33k]

This thread comes up at least once a month or so, with nearly the exact same title. I recommend you search for previous threads, as many of them have a lot of good information and comparisons.

Electric and battery operated tools will replace air tools for most homeowners, but air has its place in the industrial world and will not be going anywhere soon.

I searched and didn't turn up much, hence my bothering to start it at all.

This. ^^^^^^^^

My 60gal high volume 220V came used for $300. My air distribution system is 2 quality Goodyear hoses. I had to do a little wiring and add a drip tube.

I use a 1950's air hammer (that just saved the day on a project last weekend) alongside a 1990's air ratchet and nearly new air tools. They all work fine the moment I grab them.

My newish 3" air cutoff tool is reversible and gets in places that my 4" corded cannot. It has saved me countless hours over dremel or other methods. It made the end link job on my Honda minutes instead of hours.

My cordless drill driver lives on my bench because there's no point putting it away.

Cordless will continue to eat into the air market, especially for the DIY user. But the moment you use the term "continuous use" air will be a necessary option because the tools don't overheat, and you don't need $400-500 of large heavy hi amp batteries to get through a full day.

And yes this topic keeps coming up over and over.... wonder why... ?

-HF

that's the rub though - the battery tool isn't rated for continuous use, but most people don't have a compressor of similar power - namely the case in the original article - a tool needing 40CFM can't be used continuously because (almost) no one has a 15hp compressor at home. the better compressors are in the 4cfm/hp range, and you'd need to be in the 20cfm/hp+ range to begin thinking about competing on power consumption. I don't think beyond 6.5cfm/hp is even theoretically possible.

also cooling the air down (which people pride themselves on, and I understand why - moisture removal) literally throws away useful energy. ideally the air in your lines and tank would stay at 200F+ to the point of use to maximize efficiency.

 

[Mr_B]

^
Reality is for most a 3 to 5hp compressor more than enough .
Mix of both air and battery is best but in my shop I use air 90% of the time either because tools small, more powerful or simply no other option.
air hammer, nano impacts with over 625ft/lb, reactionless air ratchets, smoke machine, leak down tester and a **** load of shop equipment using air without worthwhile other alternatives .
In the long haul air is cheap if using it enough . tools and compressor last decades, latest air technology is cheap and lot of the tools are time savers to total game changers ...
Simply a case of choosing best tool for the job, some scenarios it air and some it battery or mains corded .

 

[danielbuck]

also cooling the air down (which people pride themselves on, and I understand why - moisture removal) literally throws away useful energy. ideally the air in your lines and tank would stay at 200F+ to the point of use to maximize efficiency.

but is that really an issue? I've not noticed power reduction as the tool gets cold. I also have no way of really measuring either.

 

[ddawg16]

Everyone has missed the most obvious reason for Air Tools.....

It justifies the air compressor.


You're welcome......my job is done here.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

^
Reality is for most a 3 to 5hp compressor more than enough .
Mix of both air and battery is best but in my shop I use air 90% of the time either because tools small, more powerful or simply no other option.
air hammer, nano impacts with over 625ft/lb, reactionless air ratchets, smoke machine, leak down tester and a **** load of shop equipment using air without worthwhile other alternatives .
In the long haul air is cheap if using it enough . tools and compressor last decades, latest air technology is cheap and lot of the tools are time savers to total game changers ...
Simply a case of choosing best tool for the job, some scenarios it air and some it battery or mains corded .

I think that's one of the best arguments - lifespan/shelf life. pickling an air tool is easy, and I can pull out one of my grandfather's air tools, drop a little oil down it, and go to town. I somehow doubt my grandkids will be using my battery electric tools, but time will tell.

but is that really an issue? I've not noticed power reduction as the tool gets cold. I also have no way of really measuring either.

I'm referring to power input to cfm produced. ideally, air leaving your tool would be about the same temp it was before it went into the compressor - room temp. you'd be putting in hot air and expanding it, cooling it down in the process.

I have noticed a big improvement in tool air use efficiency. compare my grandfather's 500ft/lb impact wrench to a new, off the shelf 750ft/lb impact wrench. my 8 gallon compressor cycles once for every 5 lugnuts I zip off with the new tool, once per nut with the old tool. I don't know how this compares to other tools, but it seems relatively consistent with impacts.

 

[sberry]

They did fix impacts up a bit with new designs and mo power. Air as well as battery. I also like air for sanding, rotary file, cut wheels but I run then on right angle. Air chisel and needle scaler are air. But,, for 4 1/2 which I use constantly I like electric on 1/4 wheels. I am used to it but they got the power and use soooooo much less electric and comp wear. Super portable too.
Having said that I do have grinder in battery and so all drilling with it and most sawing.

 

[56Safari]

I prefer using air tools when I need finesse... If you're sanding/grinding with a die grinder on sheet metal it offers a lot more control, you can vary speed easily... I also like using death wheels on air or even battery grinders because they generally stop if the wheel gets caught on something where an electric angle grinder will just keep spinning... both are great, and each has its place.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

You need a compressor since they dont make a cordless blow gun yet lol.

 

[Gurp]

I generally use electric. Just have a small compressor and i work in my building or driveway. So I'm always in range of my extension cord. I mostly do motorcycle and small auto work.

 

[Garett]

I have lots of air tools so I had to buy another compressor. If I wasn't so invested in air I'd probably go electric. There are a few auto techs I know just getting into it that are buying nothing but electric.

 

[danielbuck]

Is there an electric equivalent of an air hammer or rivet gun? I use air hammers a lot, never even though to look if there was an electric/battery equivalent.

 

[rustbucket5]

i prefer electric, although some air tools are air only. i prefer electric because i can take it anywhere without having to find a hose or drag a hose, my impacts are as powerful as the strongest air impacts out there. and all my milwaukee tools and the shops milwaukee tools we have put through the ringer time and time again. we do fleet set ups and we work typically 12-15 hours in a day, the tools get worked so hard you cant touch the hammer cases and we just keep slamming batteries in them and they keep going. also when you have a cheap boss who doesnt have a proper air setup and get a nice slug of water in your tool you can kiss any advantage goodbye

 

[Mr_B]

^^
No equivalent for a proper air hammer and it one of biggest game changers in auto repair .
While battery impacts may have the power they don't have the compact size or light weight of air so not as useful, if in a pro shop or advanced home gamer you wouldn't be very capable or doing much efficiently without having air in use .
Most people who moan constantly about air lines in a shop setting generally just have poor hoses, layout and working practise.
Ideally you need mix best of air and best of battery and use them to best benefit to job function and ease of use .

 

[bustedcrawler]

I use air hammers, blow guns, and die grinders too much to move away from air completely.

I did get the M18 cordless die grinder, so we will see how it compares performance wise... physically the cordless is huge compared to a pneumatic tool. But I got that before I got the big 60 gallon compressor.

 

[johninct]

Maybe the OP was asking about "Electric"...corded tools? When I was working at the body shop many years ago, every guy only had an air line to power all of his tools. Sanders, board sanders, impacts, and even the puller for the portable frame machine was air powered.

 

[CR888]

Cordless may have replaced air tools for a homeowner but are not even close to replacing pneumatic tools in an industrial environment. However as mentioned they have there place and can be highly useful in doing things that are difficult with air like being super mobile.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I am in this boat with the M18s. It took my a while to trust battery powered, but for the average homeowner who only uses thier tools on the weekends, battery powered works. Even at my old house when I had an air setup, I still had to have a battery powered drill for other projects.

I use battery daily at work year round rain or shine, battery tools are completely reliable and not just for home owners. They have been proving their mettle in construction trades for years and years

 

[rlitman]

Is there an electric equivalent of an air hammer or rivet gun? I use air hammers a lot, never even though to look if there was an electric/battery equivalent.

There is, but you won't like it. SDS rotary hammers with rotation-stop can be used to chisel, but they weigh several times as much as a comparable air tool.

 

[rustbucket5]

^^
No equivalent for a proper air hammer and it one of biggest game changers in auto repair .
While battery impacts may have the power they don't have the compact size or light weight of air so not as useful, if in a pro shop or advanced home gamer you wouldn't be very capable or doing much efficiently without having air in use .
Most people who moan constantly about air lines in a shop setting generally just have poor hoses, layout and working practise.
Ideally you need mix best of air and best of battery and use them to best benefit to job function and ease of use .

compact size? like you mean the stubby impacts from milwaukee? i run a mid torque daily at work and it gets in everywhere my aircat did. and yes we do moan about it because im not the guy in charge of buying the compressor, the lines, and installing it, you have to work with what the owner has provided. "hey boss wanna buy a 5K compressor and spend a few thousand more redoing everything so the air is better?" anything you can use battery powered is better in my opinion. i use air for 4 things air hammer, die grinder, airing up tires and blow gun

 

[sberry]

Now cost, they make a 3/4 impact for under 600 that is battery, hits hard and doesn't need a 2K comp minimum. Especially for field, equipment has changed so much now can work out of a 3/4 ton pickup where used to need a 20K service truck.

 

[Mr_B]

compact size? like you mean the stubby impacts from milwaukee? i run a mid torque daily at work and it gets in everywhere my aircat did. and yes we do moan about it because im not the guy in charge of buying the compressor, the lines, and installing it, you have to work with what the owner has provided. "hey boss wanna buy a 5K compressor and spend a few thousand more redoing everything so the air is better?" anything you can use battery powered is better in my opinion. i use air for 4 things air hammer, die grinder, airing up tires and blow gun

Smaller than the stubby milwaukee and 3x the power .
Don't get me wrong I see benefit areas of battery but I not one use them just for sake of it.
No idea how a mechanical repair shop could run efficiently without half decent air setup, It small money in world of pro shop equipment .

 

[jetlag]

I expect most of us have, and use, both. I use compressed air every day. Some of my battery operated tools can sit for days or weeks.

 

[hangfirew8]

also cooling the air down (which people pride themselves on, and I understand why - moisture removal) literally throws away useful energy. ideally the air in your lines and tank would stay at 200F+ to the point of use to maximize efficiency.

No... It's much more complex than that.

First of all, hot air is less dense, so it has less momentum than cold air. It has to push against the vanes of the air tool, which resists with its own inertia, tool friction, and the tool load itself. Dense colder air has more momentum at the same pressure (more on that in a sec), and will outwork expanded, hot air.

Second, whether you're running hot or cold air, you're running it at the same pressure. Why? Because both are limited by the pressure switch. The hot system cuts off the compressor at the same pressure as the cold, it just stores less air doing so.

Since, given the same pressure, cold air will do more work than hot air, you're better off with cold, and not just for the moisture issue (which has its own density problems). Yes, the compressor will run longer to reach a given pressure with a cold tank, than a hot tank. It's just getting ready to do more work.

Compared to any direct drive electric system, yes, air is terribly inefficient. Ask a drag racer how fuel efficient his car is. Does he even care?

And no, 15HP is not needed. I just used a 1/2HP air cut-off tool continuously in a job. What I found was a.) my 60gal/3.5HP High Volume 2 Cyl/Single stage could keep up, running often but not running continuously, and b.) I reduced the Norton cut-off wheel to a rag, and had to change it out, overheated.

So "continuous" use in a garage is not running a tool 100% of the time for an 8 hour workday. Users have to reposition the tool, and has to mind the temperature and/or clogging of the sandpaper, cutting disc or reciprocating saw blade. If you are actually working the tool 40%-60% of the time, you're a work hero. What makes it "continuous" is using it at 40-60% regularly for an hour or three at a time.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Yes, but to get the same cfm of cold air, you have to put in more work, expending more energy, storing more energy, and separately, wasting more energy as lost heat. I'm not arguing that cool dry air isn't better for more work at the tool, i'm saying compressor input power is lost.

I'm not sure fuel efficiency is very relevant to to drag racing. I'd say road course matters much more. if you have to pit constantly for fuel, you'll get lapped by someone who's not wasting fuel, not to mention you're probably being hard on the brakes and tires as a result of driving poorly. you have to finish to win.

 

[hangfirew8]

Yes, air is less efficient in energy transfer. I already stated that.

Since the wall electricity doesn't "run out" part way through your work day, I see no point in your road course analogy.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

air == fuel, for the sake of argument, was that not your analogy?