Allen Key Tortue Test Project Farm
- Thread starter zktk01
- Start date
Wow. Yesterday, I was thinking about how it would be nice if Project Farm did a video on allen head tools. Project Farm must read my mind, and then go back in time to source all the materials and tools needed to create a video that will be finished and ready to post right after I think about the topic. 
I haven't watched it yet, but it looks like he is including Bondhus (I have lots), Wera (I have a few), and the current Vietnam made Wiha (I have some). I am quite happy with what I have, but I would like to know how those brands compare to other brands I have never tried.
I haven't watched it yet, but it looks like he is including Bondhus (I have lots), Wera (I have a few), and the current Vietnam made Wiha (I have some). I am quite happy with what I have, but I would like to know how those brands compare to other brands I have never tried.
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
I like the test set-up. Though unsure as to why he's using 304 stainless hex cap bolts which are probably the softest hex cap bolts in that category. Most of the rest would be to class 12.9 and thus punish the tool rather than stripping out all mushy like
Good info, but I'm not sure why he used a BHCS, with short key engagement, instead of an alloy steel SHCS that is both stronger, and also allows more key engagement; it wasn't clear to me on some tests whether the key deformed and slipped out, or what looks like the hex recess in a SST? BHCS failed. I didn't see that he addressed that. Because some of the keys that slipped certainly look like they have minor damage, and I'd suspect the recess in the screw failed.
Either way, another blow against the supposed superiority of PB Swiss.
Edit: TTC beat me to it...
Either way, another blow against the supposed superiority of PB Swiss.
Edit: TTC beat me to it...
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
Said even better than I put it. BHCS makes no sense if you're specifically trying to damage or make the tool fail. People often buy stainless because they think it's stronger due to costing more, which is not the case. It's grade 5 in the best of days.Good info, but I'm not sure why he used a BHCS, with short key engagement, instead of an alloy steel SHCS that is both stronger, and also allows more key engagement; it wasn't clear to me on some tests whether the key deformed and slipped out, or what looks like the hex recess in a SST? BHCS failed. I didn't see that he addressed that. Because some of the keys that slipped certainly look like they have minor damage, and I'd suspect the recess in the screw failed.
Either way, another blow against the supposed superiority of PB Swiss.
Edit: TTC beat me to it...
Hey, that makes me think people need to see bolts classes and grades tested....
Torque Test Channel
Well-known member
S2 is a good material for bits as you can forge S2, and is shock resistant so good for impacts.
But good luck finding S2 in hex bar, and even further good luck bending that into an 90 degree L key and it not fracturing. I'm not saying it's not possible, but a lot of the properties that make S2 superior might not be so relevant anymore once you pull it off
I agree with this. He did not test the wrenches, he tested the cheap fasteners. To test the wrench he needs a fastener that will exceed the strength of the hex key. At this site, https://www.aftfasteners.com/socket-cap-screws-dimensions-and-mechanical-properties/ you will see that a button head screw has ~2/3 the key engagement as a regular SHCS.Good info, but I'm not sure why he used a BHCS, with short key engagement, instead of an alloy steel SHCS that is both stronger, and also allows more key engagement; it wasn't clear to me on some tests whether the key deformed and slipped out, or what looks like the hex recess in a SST? BHCS failed. I didn't see that he addressed that. Because some of the keys that slipped certainly look like they have minor damage, and I'd suspect the recess in the screw failed.
Either way, another blow against the supposed superiority of PB Swiss.
Edit: TTC beat me to it...
lg
no neat sig line
nadogail
Well-known member
Test results can, and often are, be manipulate to achieve a desired outcome.
BHCS are not supposed to be used for structural applications; per the manufacturers, they're for stuff like name plates and machinery safety guards. Even the alloy steel BHCS are made from a lesser steel than alloy steel SHCS.
I still think there is some value in the test, but he missed something glaringly obvious.
I still think there is some value in the test, but he missed something glaringly obvious.
How good an Allen wrench is depends on both hardness and fitment. Using a socket head screw would be a good choice for hardness, since the screw head is very sturdy, an Allen wrench only needs to be strong to undo the fastener. Using a button head, the engagement is less. So it gives more weight to fitment. A strong, but less precisely made allen wrench can do well in a socket head, but not so in a button head?
Tinner
Well-known member
He's an idiot and his tests are meaningless.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
1) As already mentioned, the SS BHCS is not an appropriate fastener for this test at all.
2) His jig to hold the wrenches was janky at best, and you're not going to get accurate torque measurements with all that twisting he had going on.
2) His jig to hold the wrenches was janky at best, and you're not going to get accurate torque measurements with all that twisting he had going on.
neophyte
Well-known member
Not really in the case of Bondhus.
The Craftsman did perform very well on average though.
Was the Stanley Craftsman, or Sears Craftsman?
The only thing this test really proved, is that the Stanley made brands tend to perform above average( Craftsman( if Stanley Craftsman), Facom), and that with the rest of the brands it’s sort of a crapshoot as far as “best performer”, if you choose one of the top 6-8 brands he tested.
No brand performed at consistently the top few places when the different hex key sizes were tested.
Catastrophic failure may be worse than bending, since it can lead to injury, or potential foreign object damage, but PF rated the keys that broke, more highly than the ones that bent, or which gave up.
That said, I’d still purchase Bondhus.
I would consider PB Swiss.
I like Wiha and Wera and would purchase the keys if I needed a set of a different style like T-handles.
I would also purchase Craftsman.
The Eklind was sort of a disappointment.
toolenthusiast
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The veracity of his tests can be discussed productively. But he is clearly not an idiot.
neophyte
Well-known member
As I said above, these test results seem to be highly inconsistent between brands when you factor in the different wrench sizes tested, as well as the ball end test on the wrenches that had them.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised, if some “minor” manufacturing step was inherent in the inconsistent results.
Maybe each manufacturer orders their raw coiled steel stock in certain sizes, which differ by manufacturer, and many rolling or drawing steps the wire stock goes thru before the final size is reached produces varying sizes in the steel grain structure of the steel in the individual hex keys, causing proportional differences in how strong each hex key will be once finished and heat treated.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised, if some “minor” manufacturing step was inherent in the inconsistent results.
Maybe each manufacturer orders their raw coiled steel stock in certain sizes, which differ by manufacturer, and many rolling or drawing steps the wire stock goes thru before the final size is reached produces varying sizes in the steel grain structure of the steel in the individual hex keys, causing proportional differences in how strong each hex key will be once finished and heat treated.
As is your post. His tests aren't perfect but it's a data point.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
It's really not even a data point. The screw failed before the wrenches did in the vast majority of the tests. He should have been doing his tests with grade 12.9 full sized socket head cap screws. Not shallow-height SS button heads.
It'd be like someone saying they're doing a test to find the sharpest, long-lasting chef's knife, but they're just cutting cotton candy.
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Tinner
Well-known member
He tests oil in a coffee pot, tests side cutters by cutting drill bits. He's an idiot.
dutchgray
Well-known member
The other thing to point out is how much torque they actually all actually managed to transmit, even into a soft shallow stainless button, the worst of the largest size did over 100lbft, since they are about 6" long up to about 8" your looking at putting around 200lb on it, you actually going to do that by hand?
Testing one hex key in each size from each manufacturer in one stainless bolt isn't that useful as the bolts alone will vary considerably, what would be useful is testing each key in successive bolts to see how the keys wear, I suspect those that did not deform much in the test would then come out much better.
I own some PB, Bondhus, Facom, Wera, Wiha, Eight and a whole load of random singles, they pretty much all work.
None will grip as well as the Wera hex plus in my experience.
Testing one hex key in each size from each manufacturer in one stainless bolt isn't that useful as the bolts alone will vary considerably, what would be useful is testing each key in successive bolts to see how the keys wear, I suspect those that did not deform much in the test would then come out much better.
I own some PB, Bondhus, Facom, Wera, Wiha, Eight and a whole load of random singles, they pretty much all work.
None will grip as well as the Wera hex plus in my experience.
FrogBlastTheVentCore
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I don’t think he’s dishonest or anything, but every time I see one of his test setups, all I see is 10 ways it’s useless.
Stooge
Well-known member
Ive never seen a project farm video before this, (i just skipped around this one), so i have no opinion of him, i do however work in a laboratory for a materials testing manufacturer and deal alot with field service at customer sites. Every legitimate tool manufacturer already employs an array of torsion, tensile, compressive, etc method of catastrophic failure testing, and looking at his test fixture, i would imagine there is alot of room for error and slop, and not alot of consistent, repeatability in his testing. I also couldnt imagine buying allen keys based on how many hundreds of lbs of force it took to break one, over things like fit, finish, ball socket preferences, holder, brand name, etc.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I'll ask the same question i asked the RBRT guy: Why test tightening instead of removal? 
I like Project Farms channel, but this one was a dud, as have been several lately.
I find the best Youtube "tests" are guys using their tools instead of testing them.
Real world use can be quite different than these perfect scenario YT guys...
I like Project Farms channel, but this one was a dud, as have been several lately.
I find the best Youtube "tests" are guys using their tools instead of testing them.
Real world use can be quite different than these perfect scenario YT guys...
The test, although very flawed by using a BHCS, has some validity. It says that pretty much any set of hex keys are good enough unless you put something on it to increase the length by ~3X; as dutchgray said. At that point you should be using a hex bit on a socket; different test.
He tested inch size keys. There is no grade 12.9 in inch sizes SHCS; and there is no grade 12.9, period. Class 12.9 is metric only, as metric has varying strengths in alloy steel SHCS. Inch size alloy steel SHCS uses only one "grade/class"; and there is nothing specified other than alloy steel; no grade, class, etc.
I'm not a big youtube watcher for tool tests as I have 99.9% of what I need. But I've watched a few of his which I thought were good given he's not in a laboratory; but this one was rushed. He didn't think to use a SHCS, he used a BHCS, he used what appears to be SST, he didn't make an adapter that didn't have the ratchet on an angle (which doesn't matter), he said this brand fits sloppy (subjective) without taking 20 seconds to actually measure the keys.....
Saying all of that, he's not an idiot.
Maybe he will redo it and be more thorough.
He tested inch size keys. There is no grade 12.9 in inch sizes SHCS; and there is no grade 12.9, period. Class 12.9 is metric only, as metric has varying strengths in alloy steel SHCS. Inch size alloy steel SHCS uses only one "grade/class"; and there is nothing specified other than alloy steel; no grade, class, etc.
I'm not a big youtube watcher for tool tests as I have 99.9% of what I need. But I've watched a few of his which I thought were good given he's not in a laboratory; but this one was rushed. He didn't think to use a SHCS, he used a BHCS, he used what appears to be SST, he didn't make an adapter that didn't have the ratchet on an angle (which doesn't matter), he said this brand fits sloppy (subjective) without taking 20 seconds to actually measure the keys.....
Saying all of that, he's not an idiot.
Maybe he will redo it and be more thorough.
rlitman
Well-known member
I'm going to disagree here to an extent. For me, my biggest fear of using an allen is in stripping out the fastener, so a test that tends towards the destruction of the fastener rather than the tool is more useful to me. Think of it as a test of standard hex socket vs flank drive. The accuracy of the allen key's machining as well as it's hardness should affect where it cams out. Most of PF's videos to me are more about breaking things for the heck of it. Useful if you hire gorillas who abuse tools, but not useful to me.Good info, but I'm not sure why he used a BHCS, with short key engagement, instead of an alloy steel SHCS that is both stronger, and also allows more key engagement; it wasn't clear to me on some tests whether the key deformed and slipped out, or what looks like the hex recess in a SST? BHCS failed. I didn't see that he addressed that. Because some of the keys that slipped certainly look like they have minor damage, and I'd suspect the recess in the screw failed.
Either way, another blow against the supposed superiority of PB Swiss.
Edit: TTC beat me to it...
Because typical allen keys and sockets are symmetric, so there's no difference.I'll ask the same question i asked the RBRT guy: Why test tightening instead of removal?
KnurledNut
Well-known member
rlitman
Well-known member
I did say "typical". Anyway, I don't see anything like that in his tests. If he were actually testing something like that backwards, I don't think we'd let him live it down.
racinfarmer
Well-known member
His tests are relatable to the average guy tinkering in his garage (and he isn't a bore), which is why he is successful.
Far from an idiot, far from perfect, and very relatable.
Tinner
Well-known member
It was unfair of me to call him an idiot. He's a buffoon.
scooby074
Well-known member
Oh look, a thread that doesnt spell out the results in the first post. Im surprised nobody is accusing OP of clickbait
I think this one is going to need a revisit.
The fastener choice is ****. Stainless steel? Plus he should be using a couple random SHCS to eliminate any errors in manufacturing. The heads are stamped afterall.
Key hex should have been measured and compared to the standard.
Comparing the damage to the keys after they slip in the fastener is just weird and doesnt prove much. Seeing the ball twist off torque was interesting but he should have applied that same test to the other end and provided a torque for when the key was twisted because this happens in regular usage.
His "adapter" to the torque meter was janky as frig and needs to be better.
Should have compared and averaged a few larger sizes.
An interesting concept and he did pick from all the major brands (except Tooltruck) which was nice, but it can be done better IMHO.
I think this one is going to need a revisit.
The fastener choice is ****. Stainless steel? Plus he should be using a couple random SHCS to eliminate any errors in manufacturing. The heads are stamped afterall.
Key hex should have been measured and compared to the standard.
Comparing the damage to the keys after they slip in the fastener is just weird and doesnt prove much. Seeing the ball twist off torque was interesting but he should have applied that same test to the other end and provided a torque for when the key was twisted because this happens in regular usage.
His "adapter" to the torque meter was janky as frig and needs to be better.
Should have compared and averaged a few larger sizes.
An interesting concept and he did pick from all the major brands (except Tooltruck) which was nice, but it can be done better IMHO.
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toolenthusiast
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Would the results be different if he used a laboratory-grade borosilicate vessel?
I thought your problem with the allen key video was that he didn’t run them hard enough, that he should have used harder fasteners. Are you saying he was too hard on the side cutters, yet too easy on the allen keys?
You’re just a hater
Tinner
Well-known member
I never said that. Please pay attention.I thought your problem with the allen key video was that he didn’t run them hard enough, that he should have used harder fasteners.
You’re just a hater