Allen Key Tortue Test Project Farm

[racinfarmer]

It was unfair of me to call him an idiot. He's a buffoon.

Feel free you fire up a Youtube channel for yourself and do it your way.

 

[M635_Guy]

Would the results be different if he used a laboratory-grade borosilicate vessel?

I thought your problem with the allen key video was that he didn’t run them hard enough, that he should have used harder fasteners. Are you saying he was too hard on the side cutters, yet too easy on the allen keys?

You’re just a hater

He's not a hater.

He's an angry hater.

 

[Tinner]

The Project Farm fanboys appear to be butthurt.

 

[Grokew]

Nah

 

[qqzj]

The results seem very consistent to me. Wiha is always the best and HF is always the worst. People started questioning PF just because the complete order does not follow their own prior believes. Why can they give a break to truth?

 

[Grokew]

I expected a good showing from Wera/Wiha but PB Swiss was a disappointment.

I will stay with my Chinese made hex keys.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Another useless test by project farm.

1) As already mentioned, the SS BHCS is not an appropriate fastener for this test at all.
2) His jig to hold the wrenches was janky at best, and you're not going to get accurate torque measurements with all that twisting he had going on.

I don’t think he’s dishonest or anything, but every time I see one of his test setups, all I see is 10 ways it’s useless.

This test was trash

Terrible jig that relies on him not the tool

Bolt is stripping not the tool in many cases
________
Normally I don't mind PF videos but this is seriously flawed

All valid concerns, and I completely agree, this test was a waste of time.

There is obvious measurement error due to the garbage setup/jig. Sample size of one per trial made sure the results leave zero inference about repeatability (or reliability) of the rank ordering, and no inferences can be made about the differences between brands either. There is exactly zero evidence to support his results being anything other than the byproduct of pure chance.

Honestly, I generally avoid these types of "torture test" videos. All that happens is the ruin of perfectly good tools and equipment. There's never any substantive conclusions to be drawn or any serious inference that can be made. It's entertainment if anything, but that's about it. Apologies to PF fans, but I really don't know why anyone would willingly help line the pockets of creators producing this kind of junk 'science' by watching and helping to promote it.

 

[Xcursion88]

Wow. Yesterday, I was thinking about how it would be nice if Project Farm did a video on allen head tools. Project Farm must read my mind

Or you secretly are Project Farm

 

[Tools4Me]

Or you secretly are Project Farm

Haha. The plot thickens...

No, I could never be Project Farm. I enjoy occasionally watching his and other tool tests posted online, but I don't have the stomach to break brand new perfectly functional tools myself. I value tools too much... even the cheap ones.

 

[yrly]

He tests oil in a coffee pot, tests side cutters by cutting drill bits. He's an idiot.

The oil in a coffee pot is merely a volatility test. You could do the test in any vessel as long as the weight was known and the temp was reasonably consistent.

 

[Xcursion88]

Haha. The plot thickens...

No, I could never be Project Farm. I enjoy occasonally watching his and other tool tests posted online, but I don't have the stomach to break brand new perfectly functional tools myself. I value tools too much... even the cheap ones.

I could smash the Asian ones and then party like it's 1999

 

[dstblj52]

Not really in the case of Bondhus.
The Craftsman did perform very well on average though.
Was the Stanley Craftsman, or Sears Craftsman?

The only thing this test really proved, is that the Stanley made brands tend to perform above average( Craftsman( if Stanley Craftsman), Facom), and that with the rest of the brands it’s sort of a crapshoot as far as “best performer”, if you choose one of the top 6-8 brands he tested.

No brand performed at consistently the top few places when the different hex key sizes were tested.
Catastrophic failure may be worse than bending, since it can lead to injury, or potential foreign object damage, but PF rated the keys that broke, more highly than the ones that bent, or which gave up.

That said, I’d still purchase Bondhus.
I would consider PB Swiss.
I like Wiha and Wera and would purchase the keys if I needed a set of a different style like T-handles.
I would also purchase Craftsman.

The Eklind was sort of a disappointment.

Craftsman Stanley

 

[anndel]

He's an idiot and his tests are meaningless.

He very creative on his methods and not an idiot. His tests are not scientific and cannot be reproduced therefore does not make statistical sense. When doing the stress test with the BHCS, he used the same wrench on other tests and should have used brand new tool for each test. All of his tests are just a guide and not to be taken seriously.

 

[KnurledNut]

Would the results be different if he used a laboratory-grade borosilicate vessel?

I thought your problem with the allen key video was that he didn’t run them hard enough, that he should have used harder fasteners. Are you saying he was too hard on the side cutters, yet too easy on the allen keys?

You’re just a hater

No self-respecting tradesman would use diagonal cutters to cut twist drills. They would obviously use their co-workers lineman’s.

 

[Jswain]

How much harder of a steel does he have to use if he twisted most, broke the ball ends off nearly all, and rounded off a good portion of them?

I didn't know "good" hex keys could only be used on hardened fasteners

A homeowner is probably much more likely to come across the fastener shown in his video(or very similar ie: grade 5 or less shallow hex) then what you are all suggesting

 

[rlitman]

...Honestly, I generally avoid these types of "torture test" videos. All that happens is the ruin of perfectly good tools and equipment. There's never any substantive conclusions to be drawn or any serious inference that can be made. It's entertainment if anything, but that's about it. Apologies to PF fans, but I really don't know why anyone would willingly help line the pockets of creators producing this kind of junk 'science' by watching and helping to promote it.

Ditto. It's entertainment. People watch marble races too.

 

[Sumboodie]

Another useless test by project farm.

I've watched many, and I'd disagree.
What are other examples?

 

[shawhite]

I've watched many, and I'd disagree.
What are other examples?

Diagonal cutter test to failure for one. I have never seen anyone use diagonal to cut 16d nails much less a drill bit.

 

[Handyandy23]

I'm not going to call him any names, but I do think this test leaves a lot to be desired. I'm fine with the softer fasteners if he's using this as a way to test the fitment of the allens, but he needs to measure each fasteners to make sure he's picking out the best / nominal sized ones. Then he should have measured each allen key instead of just giving us the "this one is sloppy" comments.

But the biggest one to me is he doesn't seem to be measuring the fasteners. If variation in allen key production of +/- 0.05mm or so is the difference between a good fit and a poor one, I'd bet the variation in the fasteners is at least that, or more. If testing until the fastener head strips out, you need to know you're starting with a properly sized one. Or at the very least, test the same allen key 15x in different fasteners and take an average.

I'd also agree with those calling the fixture poor. The fact that his allen key 'holder' is at an angle and he's just trying to eyeball it straight is pretty awful, which is again for a test that's essentially looking at proper fitment.

Without knowing the sizes of the fasteners, and without being able to consistently hold the allen key at the right angle, the results are more or less worthless IMO.

 

[zktk01]

I was personally hoping Bondhus did better they still are good keys, Wiha was impressive. I would like to see him do another test at removal and throw some RBRT's in the mix. He definitely had a good selection to test.

 

[seber]

He usually does pretty good tests for not having a lab, but I agree, this one is a failure. Fitment should be measured with a micrometer on the wrench not sticking it into an uncontrolled fastener. Torque should be measured by putting one end in a vise and applying torque to angle. The BHCS is garbage. Literally the worst controlled fasteners made.

 

[jonshonda]

I just need my hex keys to last longer then they currently do, which means they need to either be easy to grind back to make them fresh again, or harder then the fasteners they will be used on.

In the case of Eklund, they can be ground back!

 

[dnschmidt]

I give this Project Farm about a 50%. The bad were clearly shown to be bad but the use of a button head stainless steel bolt was a glaring error as a socket head cap screw would have been vastly superior. His tests did separate the wheat from the chaff but not the good from the better or the best. For that he would have needed a better screw than what he used.

 

[dnschmidt]

I just need my hex keys to last longer then they currently do, which means they need to either be easy to grind back to make them fresh again, or harder then the fasteners they will be used on.

In the case of Eklund, they can be ground back!

Anything can be ground back. Use a ceramic cut off wheel or sanding belt.

 

[Jland]

while I am no tool scientist and have zero idea of the difference between 304 stainless hex cap bolts and class 12.9 or just what the hell SHCS, SST or BHCS mean. I do however think this "test" was really intended for the dumasses like me that use a hex key to undo a fastener that they are likely to encounter around the house. the fact that the crappy pittsburgh seemingly destroyed the fastener without much damage where as many of the much more expensive brands had considerable damage to them, in some cases making them unusable WAS interesting.

 

[cherrybomb]

Time for a do over,with some different fastener heads.

 

[Bubba Fett]

This wasn't a scientific test, and the method was flawed, however, by using the same type of fasteners for all the brands, that still shows some consistency. I would have liked to see each wrench measured with micrometer first. I'd also like to see how much for it takes to bend a wrench from each brand. I hope he does another video. Since these all come in sets, he still has plenty left.

I was surprised to see the Eklind do as poorly as they did, and surprised to see the SBD Craftsman do as well as they did. I wasn't surprised to see the Wiha and Wera do well considering they are German engineered, but Bondhus still seems to be the best all-around set for the money.

 

[gatewaysysop]

I was surprised to see the Eklind do as poorly as they did, and surprised to see the SBD Craftsman do as well as they did. I wasn't surprised to see the Wiha and Wera do well considering they are German engineered, but Bondhus still seems to be the best all-around set for the money.

Sadly, one can't even really make those kinds of general and broad inferences based on what was shown, that's how bad this 'test' really was. We have no idea if the results and the ranking are representative or just a fluke of chance (and likely measurement error). We also have no idea "how big is big?" when comparing differences between the brands, even if you could trust the results to be representative (which you can't).

For what it's worth, I have Eklind, Wiha and Craftsman hex keys, and I'd like to have seen a valid comparison. This pseudo-science entertainment ain't it. Sorry.

 

[KnurledNut]

...but he needs to measure each fasteners to make sure he's picking out the best / nominal sized ones. Then he should have measured each allen key instead of just giving us the "this one is sloppy" comments.

But the biggest one to me is he doesn't seem to be measuring the fasteners. If variation in allen key production of +/- 0.05mm or so is the difference between a good fit and a poor one, I'd bet the variation in the fasteners is at least that, or more. If testing until the fastener head strips out, you need to know you're starting with a properly sized one. Or at the very least, test the same allen key 15x in different fasteners and take an average.

He could have tested all the keys on ONE fastener first.
Cross section measurements of all the keys would have been great too.

 

[FMB4]

The bad were clearly shown to be bad but the use of a button head stainless steel bolt was a glaring error as a socket head cap screw would have been vastly superior.

Yep, button Allen head fasteners are bad news.

 

[JradM]

This wasn't a scientific test, and the method was flawed, however, by using the same type of fasteners for all the brands, that still shows some consistency.

I'm with Bubba Fett on this one. ALL of Project Farm's tests fall short of perfection, but it doesn't matter - it's all data. Use that data to inform your purchases, not dictate them.

Were I to complain, I'd point out that the tests are mostly to "failure" when oftentimes what distinguishes a good tool from a poor one is has little to do with that. e.g.: I'd rather know how much force it takes to cut something diagonal pliers were intended to cut, not a drill bit. If there were a rig to do it 1000 times and then show me the closeup of the blades, even better. Way harder to do something like that though - so failure testing stands in as a substitute. If the failure point is beyond what my hand can achieve - it's kind of meaningless at that point.

Another little niggle - what's the point of showing me how damaged the hex key looks after failure. If one failed at 130 and the other at 150 - it's not apples to apples. Maybe the one failing at 150 still looked perfect at 130 when the other failed and twisted.

However - lets not discount these test entirely. They show something - just not the full story. use the information and move on.


Edited to add:

If you're clever enough to figure out all the things he did wrong, I think you could probably also use that brainpower to interpret the results into something meaningful.

 

[snakeeyes]

I know at work we buy most of the guys Elkind to start out with, since they are pretty cheap, but it is not a complete garbage set. Plus it is a matter of when they will loose a couple of the hex keys or let them become to rusty.

If we are doing work breaking apart old hydraulic valve stacks that have socket head cap screw bolts we grab the whia set from the community locker. Whia hexs seem to take the torsion of have a adjustable wrench turning them and not end up twisted.

I would be more interested in seeing a test on socket style hex with the pinned version and the formed all in one compared for strength.

 

[M635_Guy]

I don't love all his tests, but they're often useful enough and some are great. I think he'd admit without grump that they're not scientific, just the best he can come up with and execute.

This one wasn't great for me, but some of y'all are taking it way too seriously.

 

[woody 73]

Some of the GJ posts are interesting to read; not that I agree or disagree with anyone just interesting reading that I take with a grain of salt thrown in with some of the posters.

Someone mentioned that you could give PF some feedback and I liked that very much, who knows maybe some of your comments will help him redo his test approach?

Anyhow for what is worth (I hope I still have some street cred on the GJ); Every time I hit garage type sales, or flea type places I buy up all the allen keys I can find, and after some time I have quite the collection. If some should break or fail no big deal as I have plenty to keep going. Anyhow just my two cents...

 

[marinusdees]

This wasn't a scientific test, and the method was flawed, however, by using the same type of fasteners for all the brands, that still shows some consistency. I would have liked to see each wrench measured with micrometer first. I'd also like to see how much for it takes to bend a wrench from each brand. I hope he does another video. Since these all come in sets, he still has plenty left.

I was surprised to see the Eklind do as poorly as they did, and surprised to see the SBD Craftsman do as well as they did. I wasn't surprised to see the Wiha and Wera do well considering they are German engineered, but Bondhus still seems to be the best all-around set for the money.

And, your PhD in metallurgy is from Purdue?? Not a bad school. That's an overstatement.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Edited to add:

If you're clever enough to figure out all the things he did wrong, I think you could probably also use that brainpower to interpret the results into something meaningful.

There is nothing meaningful in the results. That's the point of the critiques. It's entertainment, nothing more.

First thing you learn in doing any real applied work is to thoroughly understand the data generating process. In this case the data generating process is garbage, and consequently so is the resulting data. If one attempts to work backwards from such results to find meaningful inference, the expression "you can't get there from here," comes to mind.

People who are 'clever enough' to spot a turd from a mile away usually also have the good sense not to try and polish them.

 

[Handyandy23]

He could have tested all the keys on ONE fastener first.
Cross section measurements of all the keys would have been great too.

One fastener (that's measured at nominal size) would have been ideal. But based on the shallow and soft fasteners he's using, it looks like the large majority of "failures" are the fastener stripping out, so I assumed using the same fastener for each wouldn't have been an option. So next best thing is to at least make sure each test is done with a correctly sized fastener.

 

[KnurledNut]

One fastener (that's measured at nominal size) would have been ideal. But based on the shallow and soft fasteners he's using, it looks like the large majority of "failures" are the fastener stripping out, so I assumed using the same fastener for each wouldn't have been an option. So next best thing is to at least make sure each test is done with a correctly sized fastener.

Yeah I just meant fitment.

 

[Jlarson]

This wasn't a scientific test, and the method was flawed, however, by using the same type of fasteners for all the brands, that still shows some consistency. I would have liked to see each wrench measured with micrometer first. I'd also like to see how much for it takes to bend a wrench from each brand. I hope he does another video. Since these all come in sets, he still has plenty left.

I was surprised to see the Eklind do as poorly as they did, and surprised to see the SBD Craftsman do as well as they did. I wasn't surprised to see the Wiha and Wera do well considering they are German engineered, but Bondhus still seems to be the best all-around set for the money.

I used to have a lot of Eklind t handles, don't know what they did around the mid 2000's but the life seemed to go down. We were doing a lot of fab for a machine builder using tons of good Holokrome or other USA cap screws and the keys just got ate up. We switched to the Bondhus T handles after that.

 

[KnurledNut]

I used to have a lot of Eklind t handles, don't know what they did around the mid 2000's but the life seemed to go down. We were doing a lot of fab for a machine builder using tons of good Holokrome or other USA cap screws and the keys just got ate up. We switched to the Bondhus T handles after that.

Member @RoninB4 worked for Eklind and has stated they lowered the HRC for liability reasons so the keys twist instead of break.