Almost 2yrs later - What cordless impact this time?

[AndyL]

Grrr!

Original thread @ http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140042

reason I wont be going with hilti again @ http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186042

Warranty is just about up - and both batteries failing + trigger went on the blink today...

So, Since there's about a 99.98% probability that I'm going to switch to a brand other than hilti in the very near future...

Who makes the most reliable commercial grade impact driver with a 1/4" hex business end?

Don't suggest Dewalt or Makita - they're really not in the running. They can't handle the abuse I heap on my impact driver. I picked up an XRP as a spare (it was cheap) - it's already eaten a gearbox... And it's my SPARE (meaning it's barely been touched; but it couldn't handle a few hundred self drillers - while my daily impact had one battery on the charger, and one cooling off due to overheat)

Warranty is king - over the counter exchanges would be awesome, not being gone for 2+ weeks would be as important... Not being told i'm abusive to my tools would be great (I am, I beat the **** out of my impact, I run thousands of self drillers and lags in every day; I'm REALLY unhappy that this one's pretty much done before warranty's out)

Still haven't seen any metabo's on a jobsite... Same with Festool - anyone actually run them in a commercial capacity (ie you better be running 2-300 screws in at least per day).

Suggestions?

Andy

 

[ADSR]

Milwaukee fuel. It's a beast of power with a 5 year warranty.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Don't suggest Dewalt or Makita - they're really not in the running.

What changed your mind?

"Ok hilti, so I was -><- this close to trading in my old hilti 15.6v drill on a new one, but you guys just 100% sealed it, I'm going makita. "

 

[AndyL]

Watching more co-workers fighting with makitas sealed that The newer ones seemed better than the XRPs - but that impression didn't last long. And the "Authorized repair facility" leaves much to be desired (Still waiting for them to fix the bosch bulldog I dropped off this past summer; just needed a new chuck...)

 

[redwrench60]

Whatever you pick it sounds you need one for each hand.

 

[turdferguson13]

Milwaukee fuel. It's a beast of power with a 5 year warranty.

I agree, and the warranty is awesome. I am loving my Milwaukee tools. Get the Fuel for sure.

 

[stonesfan68]

I'd get the Milwaukee and buy the 2-year replacement plan warranty from The Home Depot (or other local retailer) that will allow you to exchange the tool for a replacement at the store.

You should also consider getting two brand-new tools since your income seems to be dependent on having a working impact at all times.

 

[woody 73]

Andy you have told us that three brands are not in your sights at this time and I am guessing that air & electric are also out of the question at this time and date.

What about something like the following tool:

http://www.ohiopowertool.com/P-5297...kit-w5111-k1.aspx?CA_6C15C=120016460000006750

 

[mpmarino]

Is it worth taking a look at Panasonic?

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/EY7552LS2S

I bought my 15.6v 1/2" model well over 10 yrs ago. Bought it used on ebay as just a body as it used the same batteries as my drills. I'm not a pro but I've beat the **** out of it; the thing has no signs of weakness except the batteries. In fact I am thinking of getting some new batteries for it. The other bonus is that thier drills are best in class IMHO, and you can get a nice system going.

 

[bobcatdan]

Almost two years and going to hell? My SO 14.4v impact is close to 5 years old, same batteries used hard everyday still going strong.

 

[willhollin]

Makita do a range of impact drivers for production use -

http://www.makita.biz/product/category/cordless/btd125_btw130/index.html#2

 

[7thDimension]

I've used my tiny 12v lithium dewalt impact continuously for about 5 hours, 2.5 batteries, and 350 screws in one day. This has happened on multiple occasions, and it still works like new... I also have an 18v xrp hammerdrill, which has been very durable also. The drill and impact both have metal gearboxes...

I know a couple people with the 18v dewalt impacts, some of which have been dropped from about 30ft and left in a puddle in the rain for weeks. They all still work fine...

 

[Todd.Brock]

I agree that this is a consumable "tool" that should need to rebuilt after 100's of thousands of screws. Just out of curiosity, what do you do?

It seems like to me they are part of the cost of doing business. I'm not sure anyone makes a cordless tool to stand up to the type of abuse (use) you describe.

Is pneumatic or corded tools a possibility?

 

[rice rocket]

I've used my tiny 12v lithium dewalt impact continuously for about 5 hours, 2.5 batteries, and 350 screws in one day. This has happened on multiple occasions, and it still works like new... I also have an 18v xrp hammerdrill, which has been very durable also. The drill and impact both have metal gearboxes...

I know a couple people with the 18v dewalt impacts, some of which have been dropped from about 30ft and left in a puddle in the rain for weeks. They all still work fine...

I believed you all the way until the last part.

 

[SMKS]

Is pneumatic or corded tools a possibility?

I was wondering the same thing...

The OP may not be able to find a tool that meets his high standards. It seems to me that his needs are probably beyond most of the impacts I've seen/used. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

Do any brands have an over-the-counter exchange? I'm not aware of any, but I don't know the warranty of every tool brand.

 

[MattPersman]

If I used an impact driver for a living I would probably have two or three in my truck at all times

 

[AndyL]

If I used an impact driver for a living I would probably have two or three in my truck at all times

I do... Doesn't mean I want to fall back on them

I was wondering the same thing...

Not easily. Would mean gas powered air, or a generator - and I don't like the noise honestly. Let alone the fact that I often can't park within a country mile of my jobsite - running out hundreds of feet of air or extension cord is a recipe for disaster.

I agree that this is a consumable "tool" that should need to rebuilt after 100's of thousands of screws. Just out of curiosity, what do you do?

Garage door tech/installer.

I flip around on this topic... Some of my co-workers buy the hobby grade (ie ryobi) cheap ones, and when they fail they fail - keep a couple on the truck buy them on sale... Some go consumer grade (ie dewalt) and keep multiple units on the truck, and tolerate the running through repair shop. I kinda prefer to keep the best quality on my hip for this tool; I don't think it looks pro for me to show up to a jobsite and have a homeowner standing there with a better tool than me (I sure didn't think it looked pro when my plumber recently showed up with harbour freight (ok princess auto- but same quality) tools then handed me a 500$ bill for an hours labour; left a particularly bad taste in my mouth). I expect tools to last - I'm not ok with tools that need regular repairs (maintenance is ok, but I don't want stuff like triggers and gearboxes failing regularly), Swapping tool to tool causes issues - no two triggers and no two motors load up alike - and when you're aiming for speed and quality (ie not stripping out holes), tool changes cause disruption; gotta learn the tool all over again.

And yeah, I'm kinda OCD on ergonomics, I'll have to check out the new milwaukee - it wasn't in the running last time because it felt so out of balance in my hand (it's literally in my hand running for at least 4-5 hours a day; weight, balance and how it handles really does matter)

 

[madison069]

I don't think it looks pro for me to show up to a jobsite and have a homeowner standing there with a better tool than me (I sure didn't think it looked pro when my plumber recently showed up with harbour freight (ok princess auto- but same quality) tools then handed me a 500$ bill for an hours labour; left a particularly bad taste in my mouth).

Well you aren't paying for what type of tools he has to get the job done. You are paying for his labor and knowledge.

So if he got the job done using his princess auto tools, then more power to him!

 

[gears]

I have the Makita Lithium and run 6" legerlocks all day. They're lasting me beyond their battery life so I've got 3 impacts in the tool trailer and keep running the new set's batteries when the old ones won't take a charge (about 2 yrs on the batteries for me & my crew).

 

[woody 73]

I have the Makita Lithium and run 6" legerlocks all day. They're lasting me beyond their battery life so I've got 3 impacts in the tool trailer and keep running the new set's batteries when the old ones won't take a charge (about 2 yrs on the batteries for me & my crew).

The op does not even want to consider Makita or dewalt products from his first post above. He might be better off with either the IR cordless or the Milwaukee cordless tools.

 

[mypov]

I wouldn't expect the customer to be eyeing up your tools for the job, your reputation and work should stand for itself. If a customer gave me a hard time for some of the tools I have in my chest are not snap on, I'd hand him the tool and see if he could complete the job...a tool is a tool, just that, the money is in knowing how to use them effectively. I had an older 18 volt dewalt that I put through its paces, loved that thing, in the end it did fail, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one or two of their 20 volt lithium impacts...but then again everyone has their own idea of what will work for their needs. If you are burning em out that often maybe the other guys have the answer with the cheapo tools?

 

[jmscollinsiii]

Milwaukee

 

[AndyL]

No, but I want the best tool possible for how much I rely on it.

Take that plumber as an example - half my beef with him - is his crappy powerfist pipe wrench - kept slipping... Ended up paying him for parts and labour - to replace the cleanouts he damaged in the process of "fixing" my plumbing.

(That said, my hand tools, sure as hell aren't snap-on; some of those are powerfist; but they're sure not the ones I rely on constantly)

There is a huge difference in both speed and capacity - on the li/ion impacts. Side by side - my current hilti can drive a lag or self-driller in - in half the time of an XRP - when you're putting in the numbers I do, that adds up quick...

There's a HUGE difference between the consumer / pro-sumer and industrial quality.

 

[tarbellb]

I would definitely look into a few options:

1) Can you find a retailer (not brand but store ie HD) who provides a over the counter warranty for *** brand?

As for brands, sounds like your going to kill any brand you pick. Hilti is robust. I would check out:

Metabo
Panasonic
then maybe Milwaukee?

If those dont meet your specs, my top of the line Hitachi from 5+ yrs ago is still going. I do a lot of metal work ie drill 1/8"-2 1/2" holes in 1/4"-5/8" plate all the time and that is some of the most taxing work for a drill and its held up. Not the most features but well built.

Good luck. I love hearing stories like this, people who truly USE their equipment and give real life feedback on it. Sorry to hear about the shady tactics of Hilti.

 

[mobiledynamics]

AndyL -

I just got M18 fuel this week but have yet to put it's through it's paces.

It may replace my Panasonics.
FWIW, I have been using Pannys for 7+ years.
The Sid18 is made and designed in Panny's factory - OEM'ed for Hilti. I think the biggest different between the SID and Panny counterpart was the LED on the SID is far superior than the panny model.

What Panny's strongpoints IMO - Great Balance and IMO, they are the world class leaders in battery tech. BOTH of which make up 50% of a tool for me.....

Just FWIW

 

[AndyL]

I can see batteries coming from Panasonic... But I can't see the tools - as of the other day - the hilti cordless are still made in Lichtenstein - Panasonic are still COO China...hard for them to share a production line and have radically different COOs

 

[mobiledynamics]

Your SID18 is made in Lichtenstein
Last time I looked, the Sid 18 was Made in China..

 

[AndyL]

I checked a brand new cordless the other day, when I was trying to get them to honor the over the counter exchange again... Brand new tool - Lichtenstein not China - unless they've split production....

 

[Sureshot]

I have never had luck with DeWalt anything. All my stuff is Makita or Ridgid. I have two Ridgid impacts and have used the **** out of the first one I bought used on Ebay and it was well used when I got it. I recently bought one of the kits with a drill, impact, two batteries and a charger, maybe something else.

One thing to watch for in the kit is the model of battery. Sometimes the kits on sale are the smaller battery and sometimes the larger. The sale price on the whole kit is the price of two batteries so I now have a bunch of duplicates.

I would recommend Ridgid in a heartbeat for cordless tools. The new batteries also have built in LED's which I thought would be a gimmick but they are actually pretty decent and handy.

 

[Ruger_556]

Hitachi compact 18v lithium is indestructible


Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

 

[Monte]

maybe Bosch ?
http://www.boschtools.com/Service/ProductServices/Pages/ServiceandSupport.aspx

 

[mobiledynamics]

BTW, what's a 18V Hilt battery cost running at the shop ?

 

[ADSR]

Andy, whatever you do buy, please review it here for us. Sounds like you know how to use a tool the right way for a proper review.

 

[CTyankee]

Andy, whatever you do buy, please review it here for us. Sounds like you know how to use a tool the right way for a proper review.

After following this thread, JMO, but I'm not sure I'd agree with you. Maybe I'm missing something. I guess I qualify as a "professional", but I'll just respond as someone who does indeed often drive 100's of screws during the course of a day, all year long and often under adverse conditions. I continue to be amazed at those that manage to destroy their drills/drivers over a short period of time.

I've been using my Panasonics for 5+ years. My boss has been carrying Makitas for longer and they are pretty much used vigorously 7 days a week. I won't bother trying to recommend a brand. I figured I'd post to offer some balance to those that might not be "professionals". I'll just say that there are at least 3 or 4 brands of drivers can handle tough , continuous use and not die or fall apart after a few years. There are also plenty of other brands that the average homeowner would/should get many years of service out of.

Those looking should do some research, read a WIDE variety of reviews. To the OP...I hope you eventually find something that holds up for you.

 

[Ruger_556]

Grrr!

Original thread @ http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140042

reason I wont be going with hilti again @ http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186042

Warranty is just about up - and both batteries failing + trigger went on the blink today...

So, Since there's about a 99.98% probability that I'm going to switch to a brand other than hilti in the very near future...

Who makes the most reliable commercial grade impact driver with a 1/4" hex business end?

Don't suggest Dewalt or Makita - they're really not in the running. They can't handle the abuse I heap on my impact driver. I picked up an XRP as a spare (it was cheap) - it's already eaten a gearbox... And it's my SPARE (meaning it's barely been touched; but it couldn't handle a few hundred self drillers - while my daily impact had one battery on the charger, and one cooling off due to overheat)

Warranty is king - over the counter exchanges would be awesome, not being gone for 2+ weeks would be as important... Not being told i'm abusive to my tools would be great (I am, I beat the **** out of my impact, I run thousands of self drillers and lags in every day; I'm REALLY unhappy that this one's pretty much done before warranty's out)

Still haven't seen any metabo's on a jobsite... Same with Festool - anyone actually run them in a commercial capacity (ie you better be running 2-300 screws in at least per day).

Suggestions?

Andy

How exactly are you destroying these? This sounds like a misuse problem to me... Do you ever clean and re-grease the gear box? I've used one of these in a truck shop for two years with a 3/8 square adapter http://www.hitachipowertools.com/index/main-navigation/tools.aspx?d=2,20&p=685. Lifetime Warranty on the tool and two year on the batteries. It's been dropped, kicked, battery packs used as hammers, drowned in ATF, etc... and never a stumble I just bought a SO for use at work so I could use this one at home.

 

[scarney1988]

This thread intrigues me.

The OP seems to "bring out the worst" in his tools.

Certainly, breaking tools constantly does not mean they are being used "the right way". I use my tools daily (air tools, hand tools, etc...) and rarely does one get broken.

The Dewalt 20v cordless brushless system claims to be able to drill a 3/8" hold through a 2x4 (presumably through the 2" section) up to 300 times off one charge. T

he OP has stated they drill "thousands" of lags etc... everyday. Assuming 2000 drillings a day, that is 250 an hour. Over an 8 hour work day that is 6 2/3 charging cycles which is 3 1/3 charges/battery/day.

I think most lithium ions have a life expectancy of 3-5 years or 300-500ish cycles.

In theory, your batteries will be close to the end of their usable life after, in best case scenario (500/3.333=150 work days), of 150ish days. Please check my math I've had a few lol.

I think the brand is not the problem. These items are not expected to the work of corded air/electric equipment, in terms of duty cycle.

My recommendation is to find a replacement warranty on a comfortable gun. Purchase a pack with the driver, charger, and 2 batteries. After that, purchase another bare driver. Use your bare driver while you wait to exchange the other one. May not hurt to talk to a repair center and see if there are any maintenance items you could do yourself to extend the life.

LI-ion packs degrade from the date of the purchase, so I would think you are better off just purchasing them as you need.

In summary, purchase by spec at a facility/manufacturer that will exchange/rebuild your drill.

Either way, good luck and report back.

 

[Jakkle5]

The hilti will not drive a screw in half the time as a dewalt will as you suggested. If you're this hard on impacts you need to relearn how to use one properly. Driving self tappers and small lags for garage door installs is hardly out of the realm of what even a consumer grade impact is rated for.

 

[tarbellb]

I dont think the OP has stated the batteries are a fault here? He said his first issue was with over heating and the gearbox, correct?

I think most lithium ions have a life expectancy of 3-5 years or 300-500ish cycles.

In theory, your batteries will be close to the end of their usable life after, in best case scenario (500/3.333=150 work days), of 150ish days. Please check my math I've had a few lol.

I have also done this to my Hitachi. Overheats, gearbox is ok?, but the entire drill body casing will flex and move. Cause= lots and lots of rigorous drilling. In perhaps unorthodox and extended drill time conditions. Yeah, you can get thousands of hours out of a tool if used in the same, safe, repeated environment. But some of us dont have that luxury.

"Driving self tappers and small lags for garage door installs is hardly out of the realm of what even a consumer grade impact is rated for."

And NO, most consumer grade impacts will not survive work like this. Its been proven year after year. Otherwise names like Hilti, Festool, Panasonic, Metabo would not exist. Yes you might see a Ryobi survive, but thats like a 90yr old smoker saying Nicotine doesnt kill.

 

[AndyL]

It's definitely not destroyed, pretty much just worn out... Triggers failed; batteries aren't doing so good (one goes from full charged to 1/2 in just a couple screws, then deteriorates rapidly; the other has a penchant for throwing temperature codes on the charger when it theoretically shouldn't (not overly hard use). Back to a fair bit of heat from the gearbox/clutch area... So we know that's on the way out too.

Scarney - closer to 2 charges/battery per day. But remember those life estimations are under ideal conditions... Last year was ugly for low temps, probably 1/3 of the year she was charging well below freezing temps. This year hasn't been as bad; still had a couple cold snaps.

Ruger - Per the manual - the proper maintenance schedule is daily inspections to ensure housing isn't damaged, and controls operate properly. (Yeah, opening her up might help - but then - there goes the warranty thus...)

Jackkle - Come visit... I'll let you run the hilti, I'll run the almost new XRP and you can compare yourself. I own both... I've checked them side by side. Maybe not doing #8x1" screws - but throw some 3/16x3" lags at them - and the difference becomes very quickly evident. You might not think door installers drive much more than small self drillers and small lags - but you'd be wrong Some of us get into much bigger (heck I had to swap to the 110v impact recently after the cordless just couldn't handle the 1/2"x4 lags into very old barn wood)

 

[scarney1988]

Well, I would expect a shorter than calculated life because you are working under less than ideal conditions it sounds. So I am assuming that "thousands" was an exaggeration given only 2-3 charge cycles a day.

At this point I think you may need to select a tool with a larger drive system. I think a 1/4" hex drive is just not capable of being subjected to your usage (insert hilti, Dewalt, etc... 1/4" hex drives that you don't like hear). I would compare it to using a 1/4" ratchet with a 3 foot breaker bar break a 21mm lug nut loose.

You may find longer tool life out of 3/8" or 1/2" square drive and using the appropriate bits or sockets. I can only say, in my industry (automotive), guys use these types of drivers all day and they seem to last for years.

They will be heavier and more bulky, but they will still give you the portability you need.

Maybe use two drills? One for pilot holes, the other for the home run.

Good luck