Aluminum flag pole repair help

[DPG]

A crack is growing above the access door for this internal halyard flag pole. I am looking for repair suggestions. The pole is 33’ tall and about 6” diameter at the crack location. The flag it self is 5x8 and located in a very windy location that puts a lot of stress on the pole. Dropping the pole and welding it is not an option due to its difficult location. Would drilling a small hole at ends of crack help prevent it from growing? Is there a way to repair the crack in its remote location?

 

[tarmy]

Post this up on Welding Web…a lot of very skilled folks over there. It looks like a fatigue crack and I would ask that question over there and see what they suggest to fix it. Those guys do field repairs all the time and I would assume some type of fish plate would be the solution. If it cracked once, it may do it again due to metal fatigue.

Other than milling a two piece sleeve that can be bolted around that I am not sure of a good solution. Any repair will move the stress some other place and likely cause other problems.

Love that location and the flag waving proudly…

 

[dogdog]

can you drill crack at end to stop crack from spreading ,groove craxk and weld through?
If you are unsure, maybe add a sleeve over using paper to make a template?

Email/call flag pole manufacture and see what is the process to weld this aluminum pole?

 

[alfadan]

Maybe its possible to cut off that section of the pole and mount an outside electrical box to the outside of the pole. I think the large rectangular cutout could be weakening it.

 

[DPG]

Post this up on Welding Web…a lot of very skilled folks over there. It looks like a fatigue crack and I would ask that question over there and see what they suggest to fix it. Those guys do field repairs all the time and I would assume some type of fish plate would be the solution. If it cracked once, it may do it again due to metal fatigue.

Other than milling a two piece sleeve that can be bolted around that I am not sure of a good solution. Any repair will move the stress some other place and likely cause other problems.

Love that location and the flag waving proudly…

I like the thought of a sleeve. 2 piece with band clamps? Most likely not a permanent solution but maybe a few more years out of it.

 

[DPG]

can you drill crack at end to stop crack from spreading ,groove craxk and weld through?
If you are unsure, maybe add a sleeve over using paper to make a template?

Email/call flag pole manufacture and see what is the process to weld this aluminum pole?

No welding up here.

 

[DPG]

Maybe it’s possible to cut off that section of the pole and mount an outside electrical box to the outside of the pole. I think the large rectangular cutout could be weakening it.

No clue as to what you are talking about!

 

[tarmy]

I like the thought of a sleeve. 2 piece with band clamps? Most likely not a permanent solution but maybe a few more years out of it.

I was thinking either that…or some stiffer metal rounds (think cut an appropriate sized piece of pipe in half (maybe 18-24” long) and weld some flanges on them at a shop with pre-drilled 3/8” holes for bolts to snug it good and tight with wrenches in the field. I would think that access hole and below it as well above that crack all need to be covered with the repair effort. My idea would be to move that stress away from that whole weakened area…

 

[sqznby]

How far off the ground is the access door?
Drilling a hole in each end would help but you have to do more to prevent it from going any further especially if the access door is lower in the pole. Sleeving it would be ok, but it would have to be a long (several feet) thick sleeve depending on how low it is.
How thick is the pole?
Is it possible to get a welding rig up there?
I'd have a hard time getting anything done with that view

 

[alfadan]

No clue as to what you are talking about!

I guess I thought that was an electrical box for lighting. I meant just cut the pole in two at the crack and join them with back with maybe some close-fitting tubing around the outside, as others have suggested.

 

[mike93lx]

No welding up here.

Welding not allowed? Or don't have the capability?

I have to imagine you could find someone with an engine drive welder that could run a spool gun or tig it.

 

[dogdog]

Pole looks tapered cast aluminum. Just not sure what type. You will have to call and find out from your manufacture or some one with that fancy meter that can identify it.

Hire out to some one that have mobile welder for aluminum that is mentioned. Might be easier to take it down and drag it to a shop though. It go up there some how. ?

Don’t think any sleeve will help much it’s a lot of stresss. Also probably should put that cover back on when not using that access hole

 

[DPG]

I was thinking either that…or some stiffer metal rounds (think cut an appropriate sized piece of pipe in half (maybe 18-24” long) and weld some flanges on them at a shop with pre-drilled 3/8” holes for bolts to snug it good and tight with wrenches in the field. I would think that access hole and below it as well above that crack all need to be covered with the repair effort. My idea would be to move that stress away from that whole weakened area…

Still thinking about 2 piece sleeves and band clamps.

How far off the ground is the access door?
Drilling a hole in each end would help but you have to do more to prevent it from going any further especially if the access door is lower in the pole. Sleeving it would be ok, but it would have to be a long (several feet) thick sleeve depending on how low it is.
How thick is the pole?
Is it possible to get a welding rig up there?
I'd have a hard time getting anything done with that view

No chance of a welding rig up there.

I guess I thought that was an electrical box for lighting. I meant just cut the pole in two at the crack and join them with back with maybe some close-fitting tubing around the outside, as others have suggested.

Gotcha.

Welding not allowed? Or don't have the capability?

I have to imagine you could find someone with an engine drive welder that could run a spool gun or tig it.

11 people carried this pole 2 miles up with 2000’ elevation gain. No chance of packing a welder.

Pole looks tapered cast aluminum. Just not sure what type. You will have to call and find out from your manufacture or some one with that fancy meter that can identify it.

Hire out to some one that have mobile welder for aluminum that is mentioned. Might be easier to take it down and drag it to a shop though. It go up there some how. ?

Don’t think any sleeve will help much it’s a lot of stresss. Also probably should put that cover back on when not using that access hole

Thanks

 

[mike93lx]

wow, yeah, that's remote.

do you know the manufacturer? I'd be inclined to consult them. never know what might come of it.

I think i would at least drill the ends of the crack to slow the spread, but that won't be a fix by any stretch. maybe a single guy wire on that side?

 

[WoodsTruck]

Without knowing location and other access, can you ride a snowmobile to it in the winter?
Creative people like projects, tow a welder in over the snow?

 

[sqznby]

11 people 2 miles YIKES I'd say that's remote holy moly.

Honestly, anything is possible it just depends on how much you want to spend.
But for simplicity, sleeving would be the easiest route to go.

 

[MadMechMaster]

I've seen portable welders that run off of a pack of DeWalt batteries. There may be a welder with that set up available.

Even if you have it welded, I would still want to put a sleeve over it like others have mentioned. Drilling stop holes should also be done.

 

[Lassen Forge]

It looks like another crack is forming above the one asked about...

I would be concerned that any repair you make is still going to be temporary, no matter what. That pole is subject to constant flex and moment from the load of the wind against it and the flag mounted on it.... I suspect the pole has work hardened, and will be a problem fron this point forward.

I know it's big bucks... but it MIGHT be cheaper to hire a helecopter for a day to transport a welder up there and back with her / his equipment, fix the issue(s) with the pole, install a fishplate brace at the same time, and keep a close eye on it. Even then, if that IS a second crack opening up above the first, the lifespan of the pole may be nearing it's end. Otherwise, yeah, might be time to replace it.

Left alone it's just a matter of time until it comes down catastrophically.

Drilling the "ends" of a crack like this is only effective if you repair the damage afterwards, otherwise you're increasing the separation, and creating a more pronounced hinge point, and making a place for the pole to spiderweb at that point...

 

[ALinCarolina]

I guess you have to figure out how heavy of equipment you can get up there. Least would be a drill, sleeves, and bolts. or some sort of bracing or splint. I'm. not sure how small of tanks for oxy-acetylene come in but split between several people might be feasible.

 

[mrb1]

11 people carried this pole 2 miles up with 2000’ elevation gain. No chance of packing a welder.

@DPG -- Why not give out the location and see if someone "nearby" would be willing to help out in some way as far as welder, vehicles, helicopter (new pole)? It is an all volunteer effort, right? Is it state or federal park land that it sits on? Took about two minutes to find it online, but since you haven't disclosed, I won't either.

 

[Garage Junkie]

I've seen portable welders that run off of a pack of DeWalt batteries. There may be a welder with that set up available.

Even if you have it welded, I would still want to put a sleeve over it like others have mentioned. Drilling stop holes should also be done.

This:

 

[cosmokenney]

No welding up here.

There are battery based ~portable~ welders, and you can get aluminum sticks. Problem will be finding someone with enough welding skills to do a one-off on an unknown aluminum grade like that.
Also, ping your local 4x4 club and see if anyone can drive up there that has an on-board welder.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

That needs a 3 piece pipe clamp and three guy wires as high up as practical.

3 piece would make it easier to clamp and tighten and conform to the shape and taper of the pole.

5 foot long pipe or round tube (aluminum if possible) and weld flanges as shown to make a three piece clamp. Flanges every 120 degrees.

Make sure to segment out enough material so the thing will get tight before the flanges touch. Make it heavy enough to do the job. Could also leave the "pipe" segments longer and add band clamps top and bottom. Probably should have more than three holes for bolts, but you get the idea.

Don't forget the guy wires.

 

[PCustoms]

I don't see how this is a weldable fix, patches or not.

Won't the HAZ just propagate another crack very soon?

I wonder if it could be wrapped in composite.

 

[no704]

 

[WoodsTruck]

I'm picturing a shoulder on the inside of the tube to strengthen where the opening is. I looks like it is cracking where that shoulder starts.

 

[Danpaul]

That is what I was looking for, just did not know the correct name for them. Thank you. The only issue with that is that we have to remove it each time we need access to the internal rope. I guess that beggers cannot be choosers!
I think that we are going to try a "bandaid" first. Pretty much a 3/16 x 2 x 6 piece of aluminum backing plate mounted to the inside and using 1/4" rivets to secure. Now we just need to find a 1/4" rivet gun/tool!

Thanks everyone for the replies.

 

[mike93lx]

That is what I was looking for, just did not know the correct name for them. Thank you. The only issue with that is that we have to remove it each time we need access to the internal rope. I guess that beggers cannot be choosers!
I think that we are going to try a "bandaid" first. Pretty much a 3/16 x 2 x 6 piece of aluminum backing plate mounted to the inside and using 1/4" rivets to secure. Now we just need to find a 1/4" rivet gun/tool!

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Second account?

 

[WoodsTruck]

I'm no engineer, but it appears there is a stress riser where the opening support is.
Your rivet bandaid won't really do anything. Even with the repair sleeve, it will hopefully just transfer the flex point away from the current crack but I can't see the pole being long lived unless the crack is addressed first. If welded, there will likely still be a stress point with the pole flexing so it would need the sleeve over the top to minimize the movement. If that is the route you go, could a rectangular window be cut out of the sleeve (longest one you can find) to gain access to the rope port without removing the sleeve?

 

[PCustoms]

Second account?

Something screwy....

 

[mike93lx]

Something screwy....

Nah, he said rivets

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

That is what I was looking for, just did not know the correct name for them. Thank you. The only issue with that is that we have to remove it each time we need access to the internal rope. I guess that beggers cannot be choosers!
I think that we are going to try a "bandaid" first. Pretty much a 3/16 x 2 x 6 piece of aluminum backing plate mounted to the inside and using 1/4" rivets to secure. Now we just need to find a 1/4" rivet gun/tool!

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I strongly recommend my above suggestion (the retarded paint picture).

I suggested aluminum (to prevent galvanic corrosion) but steel would be much better, if you could put a layer to prevent said corrosion.

You can easily accomodate your access hole through the steel clamp I suggested. It both fixes the crack, and reinforces the area around the hole (which is a huge stress riser).

I don't think that riveted plate shown above will help at all. Think of your crack as a new pivot location, best way to keep it from flexing is a splint.

 

[American Locomotive]

They have portable battery powered welders these days. It definitely won't be cheap getting a professional welder to hike 2 miles, but it's definitely possible. You're definitely going to need some guys to share the burden of carrying the welder and batteries.

I think you need to ask yourself: "What happens if this flag pole breaks in a large storm?" I see what appears to be a community near/at the base of this mountain. If this pole and flag breaks free and goes flying, and destroys someone's house or kills somebody - guess who is responsible because they're the last one who touched it?

There is A LOT of stress on a flag pole, especially down low like that. I don't think any repair short of cutting out the crack, welding it, and then plating it, would be sufficient. Even that might not be enough, I think you would need a full belt&suspenders approach with guy wires like Muckin_Slusher said.

In my opinion, if you can't have it professionally repaired and reinforced - the pole needs to come down and be replaced. There's a lot of risk and liability here.

 

[MoonRise]

That pole is cracked, and the crack looks like it is about 50% of the way around the circumference of the pole.

And there sure does look like there is another crack ~4" above the crack right above the access box area.

IMNSHO, that flag pole is NOT a candidate for a 'band-aid' fix.

High wind and constant flexing of the pole all means metal fatigue failure. Note that per several flagpole sites I looked at, the wind rating of a flagpole is REDUCED when a welded bolt-down base is used instead of a sleeved-into-a sand-filled-concrete-base-pier.

It NEEDS to be fixed completely. That pole looks (to me, from two pictures over the net, etc) like it is in imminent danger of complete fracture and failure with just a little more wind and flexing.

Which means either a possible weld repair (if the aluminum alloy is even weldable, as some aluminum alloys are just NOT weldable at all). You either get a welder to the part, or you bring the part to the welder.

Even then, a weld on most aluminum alloys is NEVER as strong as the base/parent material. How much weaker is an aluminum weld compared to the original material? Could be only about 50% as strong as the original material for a 5xxx family base/parent material. Which means that even done 'right', welding up the crack means that the repair area is only about 1/2 as strong as the original material. And THAT means that the area will crack and tear even FASTER once the wind starts flexing the welded flagpole again.

Or REPLACE the pole with a new one. This is frankly probably the 'best' and most reliable solution to fix your broken flagpole.

Reach out to https://www.customflagcompany.com/flagpole-service-installation-maintenance/ and ask them for their thoughts and possible options for your problem. They are in Colorado. That's all I know, no 'rating' from me on them one way or another as I just did a quick google search on aluminum flagpoles and then saw a results entry mentioning wind ratings.

 

[gearhead1]

I agree that most likely the stress is higher in that area due to the opening.

Aluminum does not have an endurance limit like steel. Most aluminum things with high enough load will crack eventually. Read the section on endurance limit: https://aluminium-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/2401.pdf

The longest lasting repair would be to figure out how to get a welder up there or remove it and take it to where there is a welder. But I understand the difficulty given where it is.

The next best option would be the sleeve/clamp option. It may spread the load out enough and last a long time. If you start to see cracks on the ends of the sleeve, then you’ll have to weld or just get an entirely new pole.

 

[Jacko264]

Can you sleeve where the cracks are and then say 8 ft up the pole put a s/steel belt round the pole with stabling legs bolted to the rocks. Or maybe a leather belt so it can flex
One thing is certain you will have To be quick or it will be on the floor

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

and then?

 

[Plastikosmd]

I’d be planning on replacing the pole with a more suitable material/structural design for the location.

Otherwise, it is either a hazard or delaying the inevitable. These repairs are still weaker than the initially intact pole or just shift stresses elsewhere that will also fail

 

[chris142]

Get 11 guys to go get it and bring it to town to be repaired. Then hoof it back up.

 

[LopezBart]

Another repair technique would be to adhesive bond (likely urethane) an aluminum reinforcing ring around the opening that's bent to the same radius.