Many Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas are built in the US (not mexico or canada) and a few are actually made in the US now.
When i look on at a Ford or a GM product and i see it's built in Mexico or Canada...is that still considered "made in the US"?
American made tools or bust?
- Thread starter Strouty
- Start date
Many Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas are built in the US (not mexico or canada) and a few are actually made in the US now.
When i look on at a Ford or a GM product and i see it's built in Mexico or Canada...is that still considered "made in the US"?
why don't people understand when you buying a new tool, you're buying a preception, a preception which that piece of tool will work properly and last for a long time if used properly.
of course, there are those whom buying tools just to show other people they own tools, and those to sell them for profit, and those whom for their own enjoyment. but that's whole another issuse.
preception doesn't get **** done, that piece of tool in your hands get it done. all tools fail, import or American, assume at your own risk.
I've heard few comments like: "I've never used a Chinese tool, they are junk!!." Dude, WTF, how do you know that? it like I'm not a doctor, but I'm confident that I can operate on your leg. don't judge a tool by its origin, I'm just getting into the open wheel racing field, I saw every good mechanic has some nifty ghetto home made tools, they look like **** even compare to some HF tools, but they work better than no other.
my preception is normally American tools are better than import, but NOT exclusive. safe to say 90% of my tools are American(by value), but the few Chinese ones I keep have are proven rock solid first hand. I dont' just bash Chinese tools, I bash whatever is broken.
I am not loyal to any single brand, or COO, I buy whatever gets **** done, makes me being productive, which my employer productive, so foreth more competetive to other American, chinese, Europe, etc.
my 0.02.
of course, there are those whom buying tools just to show other people they own tools, and those to sell them for profit, and those whom for their own enjoyment. but that's whole another issuse.
preception doesn't get **** done, that piece of tool in your hands get it done. all tools fail, import or American, assume at your own risk.
I've heard few comments like: "I've never used a Chinese tool, they are junk!!." Dude, WTF, how do you know that? it like I'm not a doctor, but I'm confident that I can operate on your leg. don't judge a tool by its origin, I'm just getting into the open wheel racing field, I saw every good mechanic has some nifty ghetto home made tools, they look like **** even compare to some HF tools, but they work better than no other.
my preception is normally American tools are better than import, but NOT exclusive. safe to say 90% of my tools are American(by value), but the few Chinese ones I keep have are proven rock solid first hand. I dont' just bash Chinese tools, I bash whatever is broken.
I am not loyal to any single brand, or COO, I buy whatever gets **** done, makes me being productive, which my employer productive, so foreth more competetive to other American, chinese, Europe, etc.
my 0.02.
adm84
Active member
im in the UK where as far as i am aware we only have 1 "made in england"manufacturer : king **** tools, so my thought is take advantage of the fact that you still have tool makers while you can because if you dont your going to turn into a country of importers like us and that is no fun trust me, besides i love american tools (meaning tools made in america) i have snapon, williams,western forge made craftsman and williams, klein and many more and besides which costs me a fortune to import from ebay and online stockists like epsteins. i have recently taken delivery of my first wright tools and love them to bits the mirror finish would give snapon a run for their money.
american lockpicker
Banned
I buy American tools to support the economy. Quality used to be good during the last century but for the most part now its not. For quality I buy from the EU.
adm84
Active member
i couldnt agree more about good quality being left behind in the last century i always look up the old tools at yard sales and what not and the difference in quality between the new and old equivilent tools is staggering. my old man was a machine fitter for 40 years and he still uses most of the tools he had as an a apprentice.
crewchief888
Well-known member
99.9 % of my working tools are (US or canada) made.
home/garage tools mainly US made, i buy what i can afford to get whatever project needs to get done.
i dont try make a living with "cheap" tools.
if an inexpensive tool gets the job done, at a fraction of the cost, andwith a reasonable life span, that's what i buy.
it's my hard earned paycheck that come from working on equipment thats made right here in the USA that pays for it....
i dont begrudge or look down upon anyone who cant afford or wont buy the shiniest, most expensive tool out there.
afterall isnt it his hard earned paycheck too?
just my $0.02
home/garage tools mainly US made, i buy what i can afford to get whatever project needs to get done.
i dont try make a living with "cheap" tools.
if an inexpensive tool gets the job done, at a fraction of the cost, andwith a reasonable life span, that's what i buy.
it's my hard earned paycheck that come from working on equipment thats made right here in the USA that pays for it....
i dont begrudge or look down upon anyone who cant afford or wont buy the shiniest, most expensive tool out there.
afterall isnt it his hard earned paycheck too?
just my $0.02
trackwelder
Well-known member
I choose american tools....no china tools for me.
this is an older topic but a good question. personally i buy USA tools when i can because i like the country i'm in [pride] and domestic manufacturing is being pushed to the wayside so i like to support it when i can. I dont believe for a second i'm always buying a superior product though.
Generally speaking i buy USA products on discount when they're good quality and/or within my budget [usually 2-4x asian counterparts depending on the product]. I'm not some full blown Snap-On koolaid drinker though. I'll shop HF exclusively before i'd start sipping that stuff.
Generally speaking i buy USA products on discount when they're good quality and/or within my budget [usually 2-4x asian counterparts depending on the product]. I'm not some full blown Snap-On koolaid drinker though. I'll shop HF exclusively before i'd start sipping that stuff.
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nissan_crawler
Well-known member
I buy what makes logical economic sense. At work, 90% of my wrenches/ratchets/sockets are snap-on. Why? They get used all the time.
At home, I needed a 48" pipe wrench for an ancient cast iron drain stack. Now how many times does a home owner need a 48" pipe wrench?! No way in hell I'm going to pay $300 for a quality rigid one or something similar. I paid $30 for a HF one, it worked, and that was the only time it's been used in 5 years. There's no reason for me to have another $270 ******* in a one time tool.
All things being equal, I prefer US made tools. Unfortunately, things are never equal.
At home, I needed a 48" pipe wrench for an ancient cast iron drain stack. Now how many times does a home owner need a 48" pipe wrench?! No way in hell I'm going to pay $300 for a quality rigid one or something similar. I paid $30 for a HF one, it worked, and that was the only time it's been used in 5 years. There's no reason for me to have another $270 ******* in a one time tool.
All things being equal, I prefer US made tools. Unfortunately, things are never equal.
woody 73
Well-known member
I like all tools,but Quality would be the number one thing with me. I would like to see more americans not be deprived of their jobs and I try and support them by buying american tools when I can.
What gets me upset are two things:
When a company does not tell the truth about where that tool is made (Mac got into trouble years ago) and having to pay a very high price for that chinese tool with the tool truck logo name on it.
Just my two cents...
What gets me upset are two things:
When a company does not tell the truth about where that tool is made (Mac got into trouble years ago) and having to pay a very high price for that chinese tool with the tool truck logo name on it.
Just my two cents...
I've had to buy some power tools manufactured in china and they seem to be pretty decent and at least have a pretty good warranty. (Milwaukee and Ridgid brands) I'd buy USA made ones but they virtually don't exist anymore and most of the euro ones are more than I can afford.
Hand tools however are a different story... I'd say almost 100% of the ones in my tool box are either American or European made and I have been very pleased with their quality, some of them have gone through hell and have not let me down. I agree that quality has suffered in some American made tools but there are some brands which are still excellent and those are the ones I buy.
On the flip side, there are some tools which have been designed here but manufactured in china which end up being quite good, sometimes even on par with the ones made here and maybe even better in some cases. It really just depends on how the factory is run and if they ensure the tools are created to specification without taking shortcuts.
My way of thinking is if I can buy a USA made tool here which has a level of quality which is comparable or significantly better than a China made one I will. Even if it costs me more money (within reason). If I am going to buy an obscure tool I may only use a couple times and I'm short on cash yeah I may get the china one but I definitely won't pay USA prices for a China tool. That's for damn sure. I also won't blindly follow the USA stamp and buy a piece of junk for more money over a highly regarded tool made in China or Taiwan etc.
I really do whatever I can to support the last remaining quality American tool manufacturers out there... With that said, I believe manufacturing will one day return to this country, maybe not any time soon but China won't remain the cheapest place to make stuff forever... I think one day the $hit will hit the fan.
Hand tools however are a different story... I'd say almost 100% of the ones in my tool box are either American or European made and I have been very pleased with their quality, some of them have gone through hell and have not let me down. I agree that quality has suffered in some American made tools but there are some brands which are still excellent and those are the ones I buy.
On the flip side, there are some tools which have been designed here but manufactured in china which end up being quite good, sometimes even on par with the ones made here and maybe even better in some cases. It really just depends on how the factory is run and if they ensure the tools are created to specification without taking shortcuts.
My way of thinking is if I can buy a USA made tool here which has a level of quality which is comparable or significantly better than a China made one I will. Even if it costs me more money (within reason). If I am going to buy an obscure tool I may only use a couple times and I'm short on cash yeah I may get the china one but I definitely won't pay USA prices for a China tool. That's for damn sure. I also won't blindly follow the USA stamp and buy a piece of junk for more money over a highly regarded tool made in China or Taiwan etc.
I really do whatever I can to support the last remaining quality American tool manufacturers out there... With that said, I believe manufacturing will one day return to this country, maybe not any time soon but China won't remain the cheapest place to make stuff forever... I think one day the $hit will hit the fan.
Daddy_Rabbit
Banned
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 787
When someone else starts paying my tooling bill then I will use what they want me to use. Until then I'll buy what I want and will continue to not give a flip what anyone else thinks.
Rawr... I dont think anyone is challenging your tool choices. LOL at this Place....
Does it make you mad that "Some" people prefer to buy USA tools? Just curious..
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Busted Bolts
Well-known member
the tools made in taiwan, japan, germany, europe seem to use better steel and have better QC than inda, china, korea, indonesea etc. If a tool is made for a US company with good QC standards and specs I will consider it. Not all Blue point is made over seas, some are made by other divisions of SO in the US, but labeled under the Blue Point name to save, rather than paying SO name prices. The problem IMO is due to the cost of living in the US and how companies sell within to their own distributer, then regional, then the franchisee, the product gets marked up in house so many times befor the end user, that it makes it impractical for some to buy off the trucks. The truck guys try to make 30-34 percent over cost to stay alive with fuel, insurance, shipping, stocking, and non intrest revolving accts. I'm not defending the truck guys, but I have a good relationship with my SO dealer, and he has been honest with me on how the system works as I understand it. With all that mark up, vs the imports made cheaply, there is a big comparison. Although I don't believe on paying US made prices on chineese knock off tools. This forum is a great educator to me and others on where stuff comes from and the details that surround tools and their companies.
LMAO......no you didn't.....
Krokodil
Well-known member
I'm not even going to entertain this brain dead discussion. My question to all the "I only buy American" people is: What will you do when your child is sick and the only medicine available was produced in India?
Lets leave that there. On another tangent, I was thinking the other day: Why are people worried about quality when big manufacturers from 1st world countries outsource production to 3rd world countries? Should the ISO standards for manufacturing not ensure that the products are exactly the same?
Lets leave that there. On another tangent, I was thinking the other day: Why are people worried about quality when big manufacturers from 1st world countries outsource production to 3rd world countries? Should the ISO standards for manufacturing not ensure that the products are exactly the same?
Only Indian medicines i have seen here are Vicks Vapo-Rub and some paracetemol brands.India has far too poor hygiene to be a successful producer of medicines at this time , even though it is high cost the UK continues to be a world leader.
Unfortuantely Indian tools are as poor as Indian hygiene.
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i have a mixed COO of tools, as a DIYer i do not see the need to buy expensive tools that have very limited use.
i recently replaced an screwdriver set and hammer (china made) with Felo and Estwing.
i can say im very happy with it. the tip on the cheap one got worn after assembly of the TV rack, they are just good for changing batteries on toys. the cheap hammer got rusted after a few months. both cheap ones got good use though
i recently replaced an screwdriver set and hammer (china made) with Felo and Estwing.
i can say im very happy with it. the tip on the cheap one got worn after assembly of the TV rack, they are just good for changing batteries on toys. the cheap hammer got rusted after a few months. both cheap ones got good use though
american lockpicker
Banned
I don't worry about the quality as I don't buy outsourced tools. If theres ever a day I can't buy new from the US or EU I'll buy used as theres million(billions?) of quality used tools out there for next to nothing prices.
Daddy_Rabbit
Banned
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 787
Nope. I find it mildly irritating that someone would make the assumption that I don't buy USA-made tools when I can.
Daddy_Rabbit
Banned
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 787
For now. The same was said of Japan in the 50's.
Why Is it anyones business but your Own? I know i personally dont care what you or anyone else buys or for what reasons, Nor do i need anyones blessing. I own very little Import tools but what i own are Mine and i didnt need anyone's permission or acceptance to purchase them. On the Opposite spectrum, Its nobodys business but mine if i want to drop $200 bucks on a Ratchet either.
Yeah, maybe so but it sure is fun getting all worked up over the internet about it ain't it?
JayL
Well-known member
If the American Companies outsource then I hope they spend a bit more on the quality control. Sometimes I even pay US prices for outsourced products and is this so difficult for them to do considering the savings they get outsourcing production. A product that is at least near at par with US Made will be acceptable for me then.
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Daddy_Rabbit
Banned
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 787
I think you need to re-read my post ... you seem a bit confused.
I guess.... I think ill pass on Re-Reading. Good Luck with that Irritation problem.
You are talking about a country close to 1/3 of the size of the US but with 3 to 4 times the population.
It is safe to say hygiene and safety standards will always be an issue there especially if you consider the effect of the monsoonal rainfall flooding sewer systems etc.Always going to be a problem so long as they keep popping out babies the rate they are.
Autoguy
Well-known member
quality means famous names like TOYOTA , Snap-on ...etc are my Pilot.
blue dog
Banned
negative catfish, the USA population is over 300 million, japan is 127 million.
I don't think India is the next Japan , The Japanese have something called a work ethic.
Indians , theres just so many of them they hire 3 people to do the job of one man.Hence they become lazy , much like the public sector.
Indians , theres just so many of them they hire 3 people to do the job of one man.Hence they become lazy , much like the public sector.
Frank
Well-known member
You really want to buy American? Then buy good used tools of any brand and origin from the tool guys at swap meets and flea markets.
intropiles
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2010
- Messages
- 6
Absolutely! That's it!
First post here and please excuse me if I have breached protocol here by resurrecting a 4 month old thread.
My preference is to buy American made hand tools. I was in the military signing my life away in 1976 and finally retiring from the US Army Reserves in 1998. Over the years, I accumulated tools here and there, mostly based on need and what I would afford. There was a day when the pickings were pretty good for "Made in the USA", but that has changed.
Knowing that the Chinese military controls just about every "private" company in China, and the ethical standards of the Chinese that seem to require taking a good recipe and then changing the ingredients where cheaper and corner cutting rules the day in the name of quantity versus quality, I try like hell to stay away fron Chinese product.
These days, I look for US made for other reasons. The economy is so far in the crapper, that anything that keeps jobs here is a good thing. Once a job goes overseas, it is not coming back (if companies want to bring the overseas income back into the US, they are taxed to hell on it, plus, some countries, like India, actually prohibit you from taking earnings out of the country). That is strong incentive for companies to keep that money offshore, and invest the earnings there versus here.
And truth be told, if foreign companies had to follow all of our labor, enviromental and business laws, the product they produced would likely be unaffordable by the time it reached here. That was the original concept behind tarriffs on imports, but we cannot begin to utter the "T" word in this "global economy"
I served this country to protect it, not to make it easy for some shithole country to grow their economy and turn the tables on us.
So I buy American whenever I can.
I came to this site recently and found that a member here had run into the same issue that led to my search - looking for a 3/8 socket repair kit on a Cornwell ratchet. The ratchet in question was used, unforutunately, by another (one day I will learn not to lend tools out), and by the time I got it the works were so shot to **** that they were useless. Not Cornwell's fault, and I could not honestly say it was not abused (because I think it was). So I figure just get a replacement kit and I would do it myself.
And my experience is pretty much the same as the one laid out here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83729&highlight=cornwell+ratchet+repair+kit
I am not going to send the thing back, since I do not think it would be entirely honset to receive a "free" replacement out of one that was trashed.
Now I fully understand the whole dealer protection thing. Where a company protects its dealers by agreeing not to compete with them for sales. But on a repair part?
Which brings me full circle to the Buy American mentality. I want to buy goods made here. Hell, I'll even save them the money and trouble by fixing the thing on my own, and buying the parts to do it.
But you can't. One of the big inducements to buy American is the thought, real or imagined, that you are getting a better product. And the fact that most of the US companies support that with lifetime warranties says a lot. If that lifetime warranty starts being watered down with exceptions and conditions, the value just isn't there. And it does not do wonders for the resale value of these items either. I imagine some people buy US made with the thought that if they ever have to sell it, they will not take a bath.
So, here is what I don't understand: Why would any company in the US today discourage people from buying their US product made by US workers, forcing people to have no option but to support economies like that of China? I mean, come on - I own a Ford F250 Diesel, and while I have to buy the truck from a dealer, I can get Ford spare parts just abut anywhere. I do not have to take it to a dealer to get repaired - I can actually do it myself.
And speaking of the auto industry, there was a time when Asian product was mocked as inferior to American made. Now days, the tables have turned. Car buyers now look at "quality" as a standard set overseas, with American manufacturers struggling to reclaim that throne. Good luck.
I was always a buy American guy without question when it came to hand tools, but when I get no love from the US companies versus a promise from an Asian competitor who will love me long time in meeting my "needs", well...a man needs his lovin.
Sorry for the lengthy post. It is just sad to see business that could remain here and continue to employ people here in the US forced overseas forever by some very shortsighted BS - for the want of a nail, the shoe was lost; for the want of the shoe, the horse was lost; for the want of a horse, the battle was lost; and for the want of a battle, the war was lost.
Jim
My preference is to buy American made hand tools. I was in the military signing my life away in 1976 and finally retiring from the US Army Reserves in 1998. Over the years, I accumulated tools here and there, mostly based on need and what I would afford. There was a day when the pickings were pretty good for "Made in the USA", but that has changed.
Knowing that the Chinese military controls just about every "private" company in China, and the ethical standards of the Chinese that seem to require taking a good recipe and then changing the ingredients where cheaper and corner cutting rules the day in the name of quantity versus quality, I try like hell to stay away fron Chinese product.
These days, I look for US made for other reasons. The economy is so far in the crapper, that anything that keeps jobs here is a good thing. Once a job goes overseas, it is not coming back (if companies want to bring the overseas income back into the US, they are taxed to hell on it, plus, some countries, like India, actually prohibit you from taking earnings out of the country). That is strong incentive for companies to keep that money offshore, and invest the earnings there versus here.
And truth be told, if foreign companies had to follow all of our labor, enviromental and business laws, the product they produced would likely be unaffordable by the time it reached here. That was the original concept behind tarriffs on imports, but we cannot begin to utter the "T" word in this "global economy"
I served this country to protect it, not to make it easy for some shithole country to grow their economy and turn the tables on us.
So I buy American whenever I can.
I came to this site recently and found that a member here had run into the same issue that led to my search - looking for a 3/8 socket repair kit on a Cornwell ratchet. The ratchet in question was used, unforutunately, by another (one day I will learn not to lend tools out), and by the time I got it the works were so shot to **** that they were useless. Not Cornwell's fault, and I could not honestly say it was not abused (because I think it was). So I figure just get a replacement kit and I would do it myself.
And my experience is pretty much the same as the one laid out here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83729&highlight=cornwell+ratchet+repair+kit
I am not going to send the thing back, since I do not think it would be entirely honset to receive a "free" replacement out of one that was trashed.
Now I fully understand the whole dealer protection thing. Where a company protects its dealers by agreeing not to compete with them for sales. But on a repair part?
Which brings me full circle to the Buy American mentality. I want to buy goods made here. Hell, I'll even save them the money and trouble by fixing the thing on my own, and buying the parts to do it.
But you can't. One of the big inducements to buy American is the thought, real or imagined, that you are getting a better product. And the fact that most of the US companies support that with lifetime warranties says a lot. If that lifetime warranty starts being watered down with exceptions and conditions, the value just isn't there. And it does not do wonders for the resale value of these items either. I imagine some people buy US made with the thought that if they ever have to sell it, they will not take a bath.
So, here is what I don't understand: Why would any company in the US today discourage people from buying their US product made by US workers, forcing people to have no option but to support economies like that of China? I mean, come on - I own a Ford F250 Diesel, and while I have to buy the truck from a dealer, I can get Ford spare parts just abut anywhere. I do not have to take it to a dealer to get repaired - I can actually do it myself.
And speaking of the auto industry, there was a time when Asian product was mocked as inferior to American made. Now days, the tables have turned. Car buyers now look at "quality" as a standard set overseas, with American manufacturers struggling to reclaim that throne. Good luck.
I was always a buy American guy without question when it came to hand tools, but when I get no love from the US companies versus a promise from an Asian competitor who will love me long time in meeting my "needs", well...a man needs his lovin.
Sorry for the lengthy post. It is just sad to see business that could remain here and continue to employ people here in the US forced overseas forever by some very shortsighted BS - for the want of a nail, the shoe was lost; for the want of the shoe, the horse was lost; for the want of a horse, the battle was lost; and for the want of a battle, the war was lost.
Jim
american lockpicker
Banned
Not true. Makita, Bosch, and Bahco have all made tools here in the last decade at the same prices the Chinese made tools cost.
jammer1001
Member
Here's the deal guys... Yes, everyone would buy American and here are the key words "if they can afford it" But the truth is we as Americans have done this to our selfs. I recently bought a 1 1/2 wrench from my Mac guy and paid over $120.00 for it! Why so much, American labor rate and US steel. There are very few company's that make US wrenches here is the US yet, Mac still makes there own in Texas. We started buying over sea's because they were cheep and actually pretty good to a point, which in turn put some very good American company's out of business for making tools. I've done some minor research and what I found was Mac Tools makes most but not all there wrenches here in the states, Snap-On has the wright tool company (which is quite good) makes most of there's, Matco and Cornwell are mostly overseas and outsourced
Your research is flawed.... Wright has Nothing to do with Snap on, matco wrenches are US made, cornwell wrenches are also US made.
Edit: I'm referencing combo wrenches, there is some guy on eBay who is claiming in his listing that his wright wrenches are produced by snap on... It borderline hilarious.
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Well , maybe they cost the same in the shop but i can bet the store/manufacturer made more profit on the Chinese made ones than the USA made ones.
Most folks don't even care about country of origin these days , alot of the time they don't even care about quality.All they care about is PRICE.
airbuff101
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Messages
- 728
quote:"I've done some minor research and what I found was Mac Tools makes most but not all there wrenches here in the states, Snap-On has the wright tool company (which is quite good) makes most of there's, Matco and Cornwell are mostly overseas and outsourced ..."
Jammer,
There are many folks here that have been doing tools for a long, long time. If you do a bit more research I think you'll find that your statement above, is less than correct.
This is a good place to find the real answers as false info is usually quickly corrected here.
Read a bit and you'll gain a clearer picture of "who makes what for who" etc.
airbuff
Jammer,
There are many folks here that have been doing tools for a long, long time. If you do a bit more research I think you'll find that your statement above, is less than correct.
This is a good place to find the real answers as false info is usually quickly corrected here.
Read a bit and you'll gain a clearer picture of "who makes what for who" etc.
airbuff
ToolsDelivered.com
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2011
- Messages
- 61
Snap-On owns JH Williams, which some confuse with Wright. Snap-On owns CDI Torque, which makes Wright badged torque wrenches and multipliers. Snap-On started buying up other tool companies a decade ago to reduce the manufacturing cost for Snap-On Inc, while giving new life to the brands that came with the plants they bought through their established distribution network.
The big thing about imported tools is that they need to be from an ISO certified plant for consistent measurable quality standards. There are space programs, power plants, jets, ships, and hydro dams around the world built with tools made in these plants. This covers everything from raw materials to the products as they sit in the packaging.
The big thing about imported tools is that they need to be from an ISO certified plant for consistent measurable quality standards. There are space programs, power plants, jets, ships, and hydro dams around the world built with tools made in these plants. This covers everything from raw materials to the products as they sit in the packaging.
ibedayank
Well-known member
if i have the option i will always buy MADE IN THE USA...
but sometimes you need tools to get the job done and the wallet says buy what you can afford
and that is why i am now looking for older craftsman and other companys tools used
but sometimes you need tools to get the job done and the wallet says buy what you can afford
and that is why i am now looking for older craftsman and other companys tools used