American Pacemaker - WW2 16x30 back from the dead

[86turbodsl]

CPCO has a package for 213 for CA size. Just have to decide if i want to go with a standard type or something more esoteric like a dickson style.

 

[86turbodsl]

Spent most of the morning cleaning up and removing most of the pallet material. Got the lathe dropped down about 4 inches onto 3 pcs of 4x6 on side. Then started working on the toe jack. It's a very crude design of welded 1/2" plate, using a 4 ton HF jack. If it doesn't work, i'll copy one of the more elaborate designs on the web.

The machine skates were finished yesterday, they are 1/2 plate with 1/2" drill rod axles and 4 bearings per axle. A 2x4 block goes on top, and the toe jack lowers it all down onto the skates. 3 skates to maintain a plane at all times. 4 is a no no.

Picked up 3.5 gallons of evaporust yesterday, as soon as i can get the chucks apart, they go into the solution.

It is crazy to me how easy it is to move this lathe by myself on skates.

The toe jack was not happy. I need a new design.

 

[DocsMachine]

CPCO has a package for 213 for CA size. Just have to decide if i want to go with a standard type or something more esoteric like a dickson style.

-CA might be a touch of overkill. I have a slightly smaller CXA on my 16x56 Springfield (actual swing being closer to 18.5".)

Here's a pic of the CXA compared to an 8" piece of pipe in a 10" three-jaw:

And just for the sake of the argument, I'm a big fan of the Aloris dovetail style. It's fast, repeatable, easy to swap blocks, blocks are easy to make if you want to go that route, and dirt-common, so extra blocks can be had easily and if you buy import, pretty cheaply. (I splurged on real Aloris pieces for my monster- bought used, of course, I'm not made of money. You can occasionally find a score on eBay, and you almost don't have to worry- you basically can't kill or wear out a real Aloris.)

Doc.

 

[86turbodsl]

Opinions seem to be pretty split on CA vs CXA. Neither one seem to be very common around here. And no way i can afford a new aloris.

I finally freed up the carriage tonight. Half nuts were not engaged, although to sure looks like they are. The carriage was glued to the ways by rust. I loosened the gibs and just worked it back and forth. It kept getting looser and finally moved. I can see the square engagement clutch rod is bent though.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I haven't used anything bigger than BXA, but I prefer wedge over piston by a large margin.

 

[rmack898]

I have an Aloris piston post on my Pacemaker. I have 4 Aloris holders but the rest are all HHIP imports and I have no issues with them.

While the Pacemaker can easily peel off .25 in a single pass, it can still easily hold a tenth with a piston tool post.

 

[Strouty]

I almost think there is a CXA at the semi local pawn shop I visit every so often. I don't remember it being very expensive, I do remember it was too big for my lathe.

 

[DocsMachine]

Opinions seem to be pretty split on CA vs CXA. Neither one seem to be very common around here. And no way i can afford a new aloris.

-Neither could I, that's why I found a good used one on eBay.

On the CA/CXA thing, it's kind of a toss-up. It's nice to have the potential strength of the slightly bigger CA, but on the other hand, how often are you planning on taking a full-power, full-depth cut?

There's also the tooling to think of- CXA takes up to 3/4" shank, CA takes 1". Used 1" shank insertable-carbide holders go cheap on eBay, since industrial places don't want used-and-abused, and few home-shops can take tooling that big.

But back on the other hand again, the big inserts those things take can cost $40 each. Plus, the big inserts tend to have minimum depths of cut- it's hard to do small detail work with a big 3/4" IC negative-rake insert; trust me on this one, you smear the metal off, rather than cut it.

Assuming this is a machine for a home shop, doing day-to-day fab on trailers, trucks and hotrods, chances are you're going to wind up preferring a lot of 1/2" and 5/8" shank tooling, for easier detail work on smaller pieces (and not, say, trying to peel 1/2" chips off a 350-pound casting. )

It's easier to put a smaller shank tool in a 3/4" slot in a CXA than it is to fill in the 1" slot in a CA. (You run out of height adjustment, have to use shim blocks, etc.)

Really, either one will work, I just think the smaller of the two- which is still a gigantic, beefy post- is better suited for general day-to-day use.

Doc.

 

[86turbodsl]

Honestly, with the mill i can make any tool holder i want or need. I'm more concerned about keeping the cost down on the tooling than taking huge cuts. That being said, if i make a flywheel, i don't want it to take a week either.

Strouty, if you get over that way again, check on the cost would ya? Thanks.

 

[DocsMachine]

That being said, if i make a flywheel, i don't want it to take a week either.

-Even with "just" a CXA, for something like that, the limit will be your ability to rigidly hold the workpiece, long before the strength of the toolpost comes into question.

How to the bedways look under where the carriage was?

Doc.

 

[81turbota]

Really enjoying this restoration thread. My brother just finished a similar resto on a 1944 Logan. It’s very gratifying, you’ll have a great lathe when finished.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

CXA is by no means weak. It'll take a mighty cut. That's probably what I would get.

 

[86turbodsl]

-Even with "just" a CXA, for something like that, the limit will be your ability to rigidly hold the workpiece, long before the strength of the toolpost comes into question.

How to the bedways look under where the carriage was?

Doc.

I'll get some photos tonight. I haven't scraped the area much yet.

I thought i read somewhere that the CXA was at the upper edge of the adjustment with the center distance on a 16" pacemaker? Might have been a different forum, not sure.

 

[woody 73]

Just curious but can a person still buy parts for an American pacemaker ? Or does a person resort to buying parts on Ebay ? or perhaps they just make their own parts as needed ?

 

[86turbodsl]

My understanding is you can still buy parts from the company that bought the rights to ATW, but the cost of the parts will take your breath away. And basically nobody buys.

 

[DocsMachine]

I thought i read somewhere that the CXA was at the upper edge of the adjustment with the center distance on a 16" pacemaker? Might have been a different forum, not sure.

-As I said, I have a 16" with an actual swing of closer to 18.5", and a CXA puts the tool on center right in the middle of the tool block height adjustment.

However, not every lathe is the same, and for that matter, mine has a custom-fitted compound off a different machine, as the original was missing when I got it, and had been replaced with some import piece.

Go to the Aloris website, they have full drawings and measurements so you can measure from the top of your compound to the spindle centerline, and see for yourself which would be the best fit.

(Mine came with the undersized compound and a BXA toolpost, which had been mounted to a 1" thick block to get the tool height right. A bigger compound and a bigger CXA solved that. )

Doc.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ok here's the carriage moved, the condition of the uncleaned rear way and the cleaned up front way.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

Some good news, to me anyway, was i got the motor data tag cleaned up and now can see the original motor speed was 1730rpm, which means it likely will run at factory speed rather than the 50% faster than we thought it might. I really don't need/want 2000 rpm. Heck 1500 rpm scares the **** out of me. 2000 would be too frightening to work on.

 

[Strouty]

I don’t think I would be scared of 2000 rpm, just depends on what the material is.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

So long as the chuck was steel and rated for it, I'd be comfortable.

 

[86turbodsl]

Have you guys ever had a lathe with a 12in Chuck and ran it at 1500? I did it at work with the clausing. It's scary.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[Provincial]

I ran a Lodge & Shipley 20" at 1500 quite often. It was the original factory 4-jaw and I believe it was 16" diameter. It had a strong flywheel effect!

I don't remember any vibration problems when work was off center, but that lathe was massive!

 

[86turbodsl]

Maybe it's just the clausing. It's not impressed me that much. Other than variable speed.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[Packard V8]

12"? 20"? That's chump change. There's a LeBLOND 40" x 60" for sale locally for $2500. Wouldn't you love to have room for this beast?

jack vines

 

[86turbodsl]

Holy smokes! 40" swing!!! I don't know what i'd do with it though.

 

[Strouty]

Have you guys ever had a lathe with a 12in Chuck and ran it at 1500? I did it at work with the clausing. It's scary.

I’ve never run a lathe with a chick that large, of course now that I see that 40” swing, I guess it isn’t that large anyways.

 

[DocsMachine]

I'd like to run a lathe with a chick that large...

Doc.

 

[Strouty]

Gotta love autocorrect

 

[86turbodsl]

Ha! Large chicks are overrated...

 

[86turbodsl]

Incidentally, i just picked up some auction goods last week where there was a lathe with a 56" swing, about a 30 ft bed. American Tool Works like mine, it sold for $170. I bet moving it costs 10X what it went for.

 

[DocsMachine]

Depending on how far they have to move it, 100X wouldn't be out of the question. A lathe that big likely weighs somewhere around 60K lb, and given the length, just lifting it is going to be a production.

And the unfortunate truth is, the chances are very good- almost certain- it was bought by a scrapper, who will chop it up with oxygen lances right where it sits.

Doc.

 

[86turbodsl]

Of that I have no doubt. Who wants a lathe THAT big?

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Hey 86, can you share what that trailer rental cost ya? Looking at picking up a 16x60, (18.5 actual like yours) this weekend.

 

[86turbodsl]

133 dollars out the door all fees included. 12000lb drop deck at McAlister rentals. Rented Friday afternoon to Monday morning.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[Strouty]

That seems like a great deal, way cheaper than owning one.

 

[86turbodsl]

Yeah I couldn't turn it down. Saved me a ton of money on the unloading.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

I got my L1 spanner wrench from a PM member and have tried to loosen the chuck nut, but it's NOT moving. I'm planning to rig a contraption to load the nut over night and see if that does the trick. Stay tuned for entertaining photos.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Use penetrant and go around the perimeter of the nut jarring it with a brass or aluminum drift and hammer. It will help the penetrant to do it’s job. After that, a few blows on the wrench with a deadblow hammer should get it loose.

 

[86turbodsl]

I've been spraying that thing with penetrant since i got it home.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Always the torch. May not take much on such a big ring to expand it. 0.001" per inch per 100F. So heating it to 300F should get you, what, 15 thou at least?