Angle Socket Wrench
- Thread starter BMoscato
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Ton ton
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Yes, but it is used very rarely by me.
4xdog
Well-known member
Very common in Europe, especially France, where it's called a clé à pipe, or "pipe key". We have a longish thread on them in vintage tools -- one started by @Private Lugnutz, I believe.
They're definitely not a gimmick. We used to use socket wrenches (their name here) in the US in the first third or so of the 20th C, but they're out of favor these days. They're available forged (like your illustration) and stamped for lower price versions. One can get clés à pipe with 6-point/6-point and 6-point/12 point.
I use mine all the time. They're quite convenient once one gets used to them.
They're definitely not a gimmick. We used to use socket wrenches (their name here) in the US in the first third or so of the 20th C, but they're out of favor these days. They're available forged (like your illustration) and stamped for lower price versions. One can get clés à pipe with 6-point/6-point and 6-point/12 point.
I use mine all the time. They're quite convenient once one gets used to them.
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As a pro I find them useful have at hand but hard justify as better ones are quite spendy .
facom and usag are options although I don't think are made in france , toptul do them and seen a half decent set in a tool roll that around 60 bucks and about cheapest good ones I come across .
facom and usag are options although I don't think are made in france , toptul do them and seen a half decent set in a tool roll that around 60 bucks and about cheapest good ones I come across .
Private Lugnutz
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Excellent thread. But it was actually right here in General Discussion and it was YOUR thread; I only piped up on page 2, post #49 and several thereafter.
Linked here.
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nbpt100
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Looks like a lug nut wrench. Hard for me to see how it has an advantage over a ratchet or breaker bar on the correct socket.
dnschmidt
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I have sets of them (TOPTUL of course) and do use them on occasion. I have an affinity for them and use these when I change my oil on the drain plug. Where they are really handy is on strut work where you need to put an Allen key onto the center stud and turn a nut at the same time. This is easily accomplished through the opening at the bend of the wrench. Another example where they are great is doing a valve lash adjustment on a Honda. You loosen and tighten the nut with the angled socket wrench and a screwdriver goes right through the opening to adjust the lash screw. The first time I saw them was in France where I asked one of the French equipment techs in our factory in Crolles what kind of a tool he was using. He gave me that "Stupid American" look that only the French can do and proclaimed "a wrench."
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1foxracing
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I have the Facom ones that I purchased through Steve at Ultimate Garage. I don't even remember the last time I used one but they sure do like pretty in my toolbox.
dutchgray
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I have a couple sets of Facom ones, they get used a bit, quite heavy and short.
The smaller sizes are useful for turning allen keys when you have to use the long side in the fastener.
The smaller sizes are useful for turning allen keys when you have to use the long side in the fastener.
nbpt100
Well-known member
OK, I did not know they had a through hole on the top. Now I can see the benefit. the 1st pic posted did not show the opening.
4xdog
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With respect to clé à pipe vs a breaker bar and removable socket, here's my logic...
Much of the work around my home garage is on my two Toyota Tacomas or my Lexus RX350. Given that almost every nut and bolt on a Toyota will be 10, 12, or 14 mm, it's super-easy to have those three clés right at hand. One doesn't need the full range of a socket set, and the convenience and efficiency of the pipe keys works very well.
The built-in extension of the long arm, using a screwdriver as a T-bar, gives a lot of versatility. Here's one of the images in the thread Lugz linked above that shows how this works, as well as the pass-through noted above by @dnschmidt.
Much of the work around my home garage is on my two Toyota Tacomas or my Lexus RX350. Given that almost every nut and bolt on a Toyota will be 10, 12, or 14 mm, it's super-easy to have those three clés right at hand. One doesn't need the full range of a socket set, and the convenience and efficiency of the pipe keys works very well.
The built-in extension of the long arm, using a screwdriver as a T-bar, gives a lot of versatility. Here's one of the images in the thread Lugz linked above that shows how this works, as well as the pass-through noted above by @dnschmidt.
Al Borland
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Thanks, G.J. Another useless tool for me to covet...
dnschmidt
Well-known member
You missed one. You can also put a round bar into the recess in the longer section and make it as long as needed. I had my friend machine some tool steel bars that exactly fit the blind socket end and as Archimedes said: give me a long enough lever and I can move the world. Let me tell you about the French as I worked besides them for 15 years. As a German I'm suppose to hate them but I surely don't. Yes, they are arrogant pricks at times but they are far better educated that the typical American and they work hard when they do work which is when they aren't on vacation which is about two months out of the year. (Good for them!) When they are at work they actually do work and don't **** off and pretend to work as we Americans often do. I respect the French even though that tech thought I was a stupid American for not knowing what a "wrench" was.
Attachments
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
As I discussed in the original 4xdog thread I linked, with examples from my collection, as well as catalog excerpts, it's one of several types of wrenches still made (or made anew in the modern era) by Europeans that have been obsolete for 100 years in the US by US mfgrs. Utterly fascinating.
4xdog
Well-known member
Yes, that can definitely work. It's pretty common in France to put the clé two sizes larger on the back end of a smaller wrench to give more leverage. Sorta like how two combination wrenches can be used together. Pipe keys/socket wrenches are nearly indestructible, though, and that kind of "abuse" doesn't seem to hurt them at all.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Here's is what's weird about angled socket wrenches. When I sold them when I was in the TOPTUL business anybody who bought them bought more of them. They would start out with a couple of common sizes (10mm was a big seller) and without fail would come back for complete sets. Angled socket wrench guys are sort of like Subaru people. Once you're hooked you're hooked forever. Sold six sets to one guy who told me everybody in the shop that he worked in kept borrowing his so his boss reimbursed him to buy six sets and give them to his co-workers. Eric O, who I gave a set to, uses them to this day. The way these work is that you tighten or loosen with the wrench in the 90 degree position and then flip it over and speed off the nut or bolt using the other side. This is what I saw the French tech doing and why I found it fascinating.
neophyte
Well-known member
That’s the original French version of a box wrench.
That style of wrench has been made in France since at least the 1930s.
The long end can be used similar to an old fashioned( but still occasionally manufactured) tubular Box wrench.
the bent end is made to be used similar to a modern box wrench.
The opening thru the bent end allows you to put a metal rod thru if you need to apply more leverage when using the long end socket for turning tight or stuck bolts/nuts.
The long end has a round profile due to the socket on the end, which makes it perfect for cheater pipes if you need more leverage when using the bent end.
The profile of the wrenches is round, which makes them more comfortable to use than the common “knife-edge” you find on a lot of wrenches nowadays.
Facom, and SAM Outillage, were the two major French manufacturers, although there were others such as MoB Outillage, and even Stanley sells them in France.
Beta tools from Italy seems to offer nice ones.
A bunch of Asian manufacturers also seem to make the style.
If you look at the design of the wrenches, they seem to be forged similar to a typical forged socket, were both sockets are forged into the ends at the same time.
I’m not sure that the wrenches even get or need a separate broaching operation after forging.
A groove is then milled in one end thru the socket, and that is heated and bent to the correct angle.
I presume the point of the design was that equipment set up to forge sockets could be used to manufacture these wrenches, and costs are saved making broaching cutters, and having to run broaching dies thru both sides like on a normal box wrench.
That style of wrench has been made in France since at least the 1930s.
The long end can be used similar to an old fashioned( but still occasionally manufactured) tubular Box wrench.
the bent end is made to be used similar to a modern box wrench.
The opening thru the bent end allows you to put a metal rod thru if you need to apply more leverage when using the long end socket for turning tight or stuck bolts/nuts.
The long end has a round profile due to the socket on the end, which makes it perfect for cheater pipes if you need more leverage when using the bent end.
The profile of the wrenches is round, which makes them more comfortable to use than the common “knife-edge” you find on a lot of wrenches nowadays.
Facom, and SAM Outillage, were the two major French manufacturers, although there were others such as MoB Outillage, and even Stanley sells them in France.
Beta tools from Italy seems to offer nice ones.
A bunch of Asian manufacturers also seem to make the style.
If you look at the design of the wrenches, they seem to be forged similar to a typical forged socket, were both sockets are forged into the ends at the same time.
I’m not sure that the wrenches even get or need a separate broaching operation after forging.
A groove is then milled in one end thru the socket, and that is heated and bent to the correct angle.
I presume the point of the design was that equipment set up to forge sockets could be used to manufacture these wrenches, and costs are saved making broaching cutters, and having to run broaching dies thru both sides like on a normal box wrench.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
To me they look rather indisputably like antique American offset socket wrenches, when sockets were fixed to the ends of shanks, either forged, press-fit or welded, made by the likes of Walden, Mossberg, and Blackhawk. And, in the case of some mfgrs, such as Braunsdorf-Mueller and Vlchek, who actually made them from tubular pressed steel, they are almost identical kissin' cousins.
Here's a c. 1918 set.
Here's a c. 1918 set.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
I’ve looked for a deal on these from Facom for years, are thr Toptul ones worth a damn?
Toptul ones are fine if find a good/fair price, toptul differ from facom by having 12point on one end .
pre covid had facom at fair prices if purchased eu, post covid facom more than doubled for same tools I purchased .
ebay uk did have some part set facom silly cheap and did ship US .
pre covid had facom at fair prices if purchased eu, post covid facom more than doubled for same tools I purchased .
ebay uk did have some part set facom silly cheap and did ship US .
Meursault74
Well-known member
This thread reminds me of these wrenches used for HPLC fittings. I've used them a lot. Never ordered one as we have many at work. I used to carry one in my coat pocket. The cost is high for what it is, but that's because it's used for specialized scientific equipment.
www.chromtech.com
6810 - RheoWrench
6810 - RheoWrench: High-performance chromatography column for precision testing. Compatible with Accessories. SKU 6810 for reliable results.
www.chromtech.com
4xdog
Well-known member
Facom come either way, I believe. 6/6 or 6/12. I'm a 6/12 fan, personally.
Yes, Stanley make some nice socket wrenches/pipe keys. FACOM is a SBD company, after all.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
They've come a long way in terms of construction!
These, on the other end of the timeline, were hand-forged by the blacksmith shop of a wagon works that was trying to break into the early automotive maintenance trade during the Brass Era, at the end of the horse-and-buggy years.
These, on the other end of the timeline, were hand-forged by the blacksmith shop of a wagon works that was trying to break into the early automotive maintenance trade during the Brass Era, at the end of the horse-and-buggy years.
Gedore also makes them in 6pt. x 6pt. but I think they are made in India. The Facom 75. series is 6x6 where the 76. series is 6x12.
Amazon also shows them being made by such big name companies as Semetall, Luoyimao, Pintouyar, and Uxcell . The Semetall has a 5pc. set (8,9,10,11,and 12mm) for $17 so they must be well made I also some other companies that make them Autoly, Utoolmart,and Auniwaig
Amazon also shows them being made by such big name companies as Semetall, Luoyimao, Pintouyar, and Uxcell . The Semetall has a 5pc. set (8,9,10,11,and 12mm) for $17 so they must be well made
I also some other companies that make them Autoly, Utoolmart,and Auniwaig
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Qualitytools
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guitarbutt
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I got a cheap set, 8-12 mm. I can think of a use right off the bat with them. However, I can't find any sae sizes. Do they only come in metric?
guitarbutt
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I'm honestly not sure what that means. I googled Facom FF75 and they look the same as the others
Thanks to GJ I went out and bought a 9/16" wrench version. 9/16 is a popular size for me and should work great for running the valves on JD tractors. A regular wrench works but a little more clearance will make it an easier job.
guitarbutt
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Gotcha, thank you. I'm getting one on ebay for valve cover bolts on an old truck. The open back design will be perfect for it
After almost a century, Facom changed their 92 series to 92A.To me they look rather indisputably like antique American offset socket wrenches, when sockets were fixed to the ends of shanks, either forged, press-fit or welded, made by the likes of Walden, Mossberg, and Blackhawk. And, in the case of some mfgrs, such as Braunsdorf-Mueller and Vlchek, who actually made them from tubular pressed steel, they are almost identical kissin' cousins.
Here's a c. 1918 set.
SBD finds a cheaper way to make this kind of angle socket wrench, while their 75/76 series seems to be made in Czech Republic now.
