Another attempt at explaining socket detents

[PelicanPines]

What if your extensions are not round... some of mine are hex...

 

[skunkape1]

GearWrench may make them that way to work better with a wobble-end, but I don't know because I don't have any wobble extensions.

What I do know for sure is that my Snap-on and Proto sockets are timed so that when the friction ball is fully centered in the detent, the socket is also fully seated up against the stop. It feels like a rock solid connection when the socket is sitting fully square against the stop and centered in the detent at the same time.

Can I reset the timing on m Craftsman sockets? I have a timing light somewhere.

 

[Yarpo]

Can you hear the click every time you move the socket between the fully centered detent position and the full stop?

Yes, it makes a nice audible click if I push it down, but I'm almost certain its not suppose to sit there, and instead it returns often by its own will or with the help of my finger, up a little to a more natural resting point. Also tested again with my other sockets and different extensions, and most seem to do this

 

[nmantas]

I feel the slop of being able to push a socket in past its natural detent resting place is a feature and not a bad design. You can get more momentum to take off a stuck socket that way when you yank it off.

 

[Wamsutta]

Yes, it makes a nice audible click if I push it down, but I'm almost certain its not suppose to sit there, and instead it returns often by its own will or with the help of my finger, up a little to a more natural resting point. Also tested again with my other sockets and different extensions, and most seem to do this

Exactly. It'll spring up and down between the detent and the stop; that's because the detent is not far enough down into the square drive of the socket. That seems to be the way it is for all Taiwan made sockets including GearWrench and Kobalt.

In extreme contrast to that, if I take a Snap-on spin handle and a Snap-on socket and connect them together, the connection is so solid that it makes the spin handle and socket feel like a one piece nut driver.

If I take a 1/4'' drive Craftsman spin handle and a 1/4'' drive MAC socket, I get the same solid connection. That tells me that all the long time American tool manufacturers have accumulated the experience in knowing exactly where to place the detents.

 

[Finky198]

Hey don’t forget about wobble plus.

 

[davewo]

Huh...I never noticed those detents. I've been hammering the extension into the socket all these years.

 

[M6erfan]

That tells me that all the long time American tool manufacturers have accumulated the experience in knowing exactly where to place the detents.

Except maybe SK. Most I received in the set didn't have any or had very shallow detents.

At any rate, What you are talking about with the sockets/detents bugs me too.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

The Apex goofy double detent will lock up My Snap-on wobble extensions.... They are a pain in the rear to remove from My Snap-on and Proto ratchets.. A screwdriver should not be required to remove a socket from a ratchet. I like Normal sockets; so I avoid purchasing any more USA Apex double detent sockets.

 

[Fedwrench]

MERK is that you?

The snap on sockets with the white towel photos sure look like MERK photography

A similar issue about detents was raised more than a few years ago and the author wasn't fond of how Gearwrench extensions fit in sockets either.

 

[Wamsutta]

I don't know who took the pictures. I went to Google images and punched in "socket detents" to get the pictures. I figured somebody might want to know what a socket detent looked like. I'm terrible at photography. I know how to use a Polaroid camera, but that's about it.

 

[Tallpilot]

Huh...I never noticed those detents. I've been hammering the extension into the socket all these years.

I wonder if JB weld would work better?

This is an interesting thread and not the first time I’ve heard about this. I too dislike the sloppy tolerances and having my sockets and extensions all wobbling around. The off axis torque combined with the slop makes it harder than it needs to be to keep the socket on the fastener.

Is this sloppy manufacturing / poor tolerances or is there something else in the engineering behind these features that we are unaware of?

 

[CR888]

Those who see this as a no issue just don't get it. Wamsutta has outlined a very important factor in socket design that is rarely done right. Its simply just the location of the detent. I often get a sliding T, put whatever length extension on I need then a socket or sometimes my Stahlwille ratchet adapter in between the socket & extension to end up with a seriously capable T nut driver/ratcheting nut driver. When the detent is located poorly the whole assembly looses fitment & becomes a wobbly unsolid mess of tools. Detents located correct it feels solid like all the pieces are one tool. This tip/knowledge really helps when deciding what to buy. I hate it when I put a GW socket on a ratchet and push it all the way on then it pops out and sits in no mans land wobbling around....its crude.

 

[Mr Ratchet]

The Apex goofy double detent will lock up My Snap-on wobble extensions.... They are a pain in the rear to remove from My Snap-on and Proto ratchets.. A screwdriver should not be required to remove a socket from a ratchet. I like Normal sockets; so I avoid purchasing any more USA Apex double detent sockets.

My SO wobble extension works just fine on all of the double detent sockets. It also works fine on all my single detent sockets from several manufacturers. Goes in and out of all my sockets just fine and holds the socket when pushed passed the detent to the extension shoulder.

 

[WWheeler]

Those who see this as a no issue just don't get it. Wamsutta has outlined a very important factor in socket design that is rarely done right. Its simply just the location of the detent. I often get a sliding T, put whatever length extension on I need then a socket or sometimes my Stahlwille ratchet adapter in between the socket & extension to end up with a seriously capable T nut driver/ratcheting nut driver. When the detent is located poorly the whole assembly looses fitment & becomes a wobbly unsolid mess of tools. Detents located correct it feels solid like all the pieces are one tool. This tip/knowledge really helps when deciding what to buy. I hate it when I put a GW socket on a ratchet and push it all the way on then it pops out and sits in no mans land wobbling around....its crude.

It's pretty evident the detent indentation on the Gearwrench sockets are meant to make them work even better with a wobble extension and I see no downside to a little play or that the socket can be pushed a bit further past the ball detent.


I use tools all day every day and see the loose fitment as a plus. I don't even recall last time I used a regular extension for anything any more. I had to dig to find one just to do the measuring for this post.

I always reach for a wobble-plus extension. They work better. They save so much time. They're one of the greatest advancements in sockets and ratchets in my lifetime IMHO.

 

[sk farmer]

MERK is that you?

The snap on sockets with the white towel photos sure look like MERK photography

A similar issue about detents was raised more than a few years ago and the author wasn't fond of how Gearwrench extensions fit in sockets either.

yup. i was thinking merk as well.


the only difference.......i like merk.

 

[CR888]

It's pretty evident the detent indentation on the Gearwrench sockets are meant to make them work even better with a wobble extension and I see no downside to a little play or that the socket can be pushed a bit further past the ball detent.


I use tools all day every day and see the loose fitment as a plus. I don't even recall last time I used a regular extension for anything any more. I had to dig to find one just to do the measuring for this post.

I always reach for a wobble-plus extension. They work better. They save so much time. They're one of the greatest advancements in sockets and ratchets in my lifetime IMHO.

Yeah, I think my 1/2" extensions are what you describe as 'wobble plus' where they wobble and also if pushed on further lock into a normal straight position. I agree, very clever and function well. I would not buy regular wobble extensions now days and need 2 of every length, drive size etc.

 

[WWheeler]

Yeah, I think my 1/2" extensions are what you describe as 'wobble plus' where they wobble and also if pushed on further lock into a normal straight position. I agree, very clever and function well. I would not buy regular wobble extensions now days and need 2 of every length, drive size etc.

I don't know who first came up with them. The first couple I got are Snap-on, which I assume 'wobble-plus' is their trademarked name for them, but all the wobble extensions I've bought in the past few years are the same way now.

After my first time using one I haven't gone back to using a regular extension for anything since. They work so frickin good in so many places I was never able to get a socket before it's crazy. I often put several wobble-ends together to 'bend it like Beckham' to curve around obstructions to get on a fastener. Having the socket stuck in a fixed position on an extension ***** as there's always something in the way you're having to try and work around, and having the socket-extension connection "so solid that it makes the spin handle and socket feel like a one piece nut driver" would only make it **** even worse.

I must have at least 50 of the things by now. I have bought full 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 sets for all of my boxes at home and work from varrying brands. I've got some from Craftsman, Tekton, GearWrench, Ares, etc and they all have the same wobble-plus design where the socket swivels in the normal detent position but you can push past it and it locks the socket in a fixed, or 'rigid' position like a normal extension.



Here's Tekton's graphic explaining it:



When on the wobble extension the GearWrench socket with it's deeper bowl tapered drive end gives slightly more swivel angle than the Snap-on and it locks better when pushed into the rigid position. My Snap-on sockets are a lot older though, likely pre-dating the wobble-plus extension by a decade or so. It wouldn't surprise me if newer Snap-on sockets also don't have a deeper taper to work better with their wobble-plus extensions.

 

[6PTsocket]

Misplaced detents can be a problem with the MTS loc a socket rails, also sold as Craftsman and a couple of other brands. When the post is rotated, a cam pushes out the detent ball. Unlike a spring loaded ball, that will push back if the detent is in the wrong place, the cam backed ball has no place to go. The post can't rotate and lock the socket. The rails are great if the detent is close enough to the back of the socket. I found out the hard way when some of my old SK and Williams would not lock. There must not be realy tight industry standards because MTS says their rails " work with most sockets". I have a Sunnex crow foot set that have no detents at all. I missed that fact when I bought them.

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