Another Mill Vs. Lathe Vs. New Vs. Used

[justanengineer]

If youre determined to buy a machine then take a trip down to Milwaukee, unofficially the machine rebuilding capital of the world. Between there and Chicago you should be able to find plenty of old iron for sale, quite a few dealers and rebuilders, and pretty much anything else imaginable. Know your values ahead of time and know what to look for - several entire books have been written on evaluating machine tools in addition to internet articles. As for the new vs used debate, personally I'd never buy a new cheap (<$10k) machine bc I hate the quality that I've seen and can find better iron used for less. Sure, there are plenty of really good imported machines but none are cheap when new. Conversely, there really isnt a price:quality relationship when buying used, like anything else some brands hold value well while others of similar quality do not. South Bend and Bridgeport machines are worth quite a bit more than significantly better machines IMHO. If youre patient, willing to travel, make smart choices, and know where to look deals often abound, even amongst the dealers so explore every avenue.

Personally I also usually recommend friends take a formal class when they're serious about learning a trade for the reasons others suggest when recommending jobbing things out - there's a ton to learn, a ton to invest, and taking a class not only will help you evaluate machine purchases better but also realize how much time/expense youre really in for. You will also learn far more, faster than you would otherwise, often a few weeks will cover more than years of hobby DIY.

 

[Steve from Socal]

I am kinda partial to Monarch myself but, Pratt & Whitney, Colchester, Smart & Brown 1024 great lathe, Hembrug and, Holbrook, are all fine machines. Other than the P&W or Colchester the rest are unicorns.

Steve

 

[Ign]

I'll agree, the Chinese mills seem a bit better than their lathes, but I think most of that is because a mill is a bit more forgiving since the head can be aligned square to the table. When a lathe shows up with the spindle not in line with the ways, you have some serious issues right away.

Oh it's not just that. The operator interface with a lathe is far more intimate. A mill just isn't as interactive and smooth engagements are far less important.

I've never used a bad Japanese lathe. An older manual mori or mazak would be sweet.

I ran a 24x120" Mazak that had a "two-speed" tailstock. I loved flipping it to "low range" to drive in huge twist drills. That's something I think even the smaller LeBlonds shoulda had - gear reduction to auger in, high speed to back it out rapidly. However the Mazak controls were a bit funky and the whole damn machine sat so low we wound up building spacers to put under the feet to raise the whole machine about 4". It musta been built for short Japanese workers (I'm only 5'10" and it bugged me). Still, a smooth and tight machine.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Oh it's not just that. The operator interface with a lathe is far more intimate. A mill just isn't as interactive and smooth engagements are far less important.



I ran a 24x120" Mazak that had a "two-speed" tailstock. I loved flipping it to "low range" to drive in huge twist drills. That's something I think even the smaller LeBlonds shoulda had - gear reduction to auger in, high speed to back it out rapidly. However the Mazak controls were a bit funky and the whole damn machine sat so low we wound up building spacers to put under the feet to raise the whole machine about 4". It musta been built for short Japanese workers (I'm only 5'10" and it bugged me). Still, a smooth and tight machine.

I've always heard guys rave about the 2 speed tailstock, hopefully I get to try one someday.

One shop I worked at bought a nice used surface grinder that was so low, one of the guys whipped up some 5" risers to set under the levelling feet. Even after raising it 5" I still got in the habit of standing in front of it with my legs spread wide apart to get low enough to man the hand wheels and not end up with a sore back.

 

[zmotorsports]

I have the same dilemma. It's hard to find good, used American iron here in the Los Angeles area. I also have the problem of floor space.

For my needs, a small import lathe & mill or even a combo unit like the Smithy is perfect for me. I usually have the need for spacers, bushings, etc.

If I need precision parts, I have connections for professional machine shops.

I don't want to deter you but I had a Smithy for about 16 plus years because I was just getting into machining and wanted to have a way of supporting my racing at my home shop. I was doing some machining at my full-time job and I was also tight on space in my home shop.

That said, I had the larger Smithy, 1239 (12x39) lathe/mill combo and I could hold ok tolerances but you really have to rely on dial indicators as the dials are barely adequate for measuring. As long as your setup was solid you can turn and hold some pretty decent tolerances. For one-off items they are fair, but you will have a hell of time with repeatability for doing multiple parts.

I don't want to completely bad mouth them, I was tight on room and at the time I thought it was my only real option. The machine was an "OK" lathe, but a poor milling machine in my experience. I also don't want to deter to you too much because I did use mine a lot and made some money as well as saved myself a lot of money over that 16+ years. Just really give it some thought because now that I bit the bullet and ended up giving up some more room for two dedicated machines, I can't believe I put up with the Smithy for as long as I did. Much, much more versatile options out there.

Mike.

 

[fsae0607]

I don't want to deter you but I had a Smithy for about 16 plus years because I was just getting into machining and wanted to have a way of supporting my racing at my home shop. I was doing some machining at my full-time job and I was also tight on space in my home shop.

That said, I had the larger Smithy, 1239 (12x39) lathe/mill combo and I could hold ok tolerances but you really have to rely on dial indicators as the dials are barely adequate for measuring. As long as your setup was solid you can turn and hold some pretty decent tolerances. For one-off items they are fair, but you will have a hell of time with repeatability for doing multiple parts.

I don't want to completely bad mouth them, I was tight on room and at the time I thought it was my only real option. The machine was an "OK" lathe, but a poor milling machine in my experience. I also don't want to deter to you too much because I did use mine a lot and made some money as well as saved myself a lot of money over that 16+ years. Just really give it some thought because now that I bit the bullet and ended up giving up some more room for two dedicated machines, I can't believe I put up with the Smithy for as long as I did. Much, much more versatile options out there.

Mike.

Thanks! I keep hearing that about combo machines. For sure I'd get a lathe first as I usually need a part turned.

 

[Thumper68]

Just for the heck of it, I looked in Craigslist for "Mill" and this is what I found in your area:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/5693517508.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/5684304518.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/tls/5697725225.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/tls/5672520206.html This is a horizontal mill

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/tls/5639470034.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/tls/5647071044.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/5653179285.html

http://rmn.craigslist.org/tls/5697709063.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/5690602326.html

And here are a few for lathes in your area:

http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/5664118350.html

http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/5596972721.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/tls/5693132495.html

http://brainerd.craigslist.org/tls/5695184264.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/5688188660.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/tls/5642878762.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/tls/5693520540.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/tls/5640347264.html

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/tls/5616585360.html

All of these were found when I searched in the Minnesota area, but I think a few went into neighboring states. And I didn't look into neighboring states for anything, but it looks like you have quite a few options to pick up some decent used equipment at some decent prices. Good luck on your search for equipment. And be sure to let us know what you find, or if you have any questions about what you find.

Kevin what key words did you use in your search?

After reading all of your advice I have come to the conclusion that I will keep searching for awhile longer. Thanks to everyone who offered up your opinions.