Another ratcheting wrench thread (warning: CoO snob)

[RunninOnEmpty]

Hey guys.. I did some searching about this and I did find some threads discussing it but they all seemed old. I know a lot of people on forums don't like old threads being bumped so I figured I'd start a new one.

I've been moving from low and "average" quality wrenches up to "good" and in some cases "excellent" wrenches. I've got a new set of Williams Taiwanese ratcheting wrenches. I've got some China cheapies I got before as well as a couple of random GearWrench models I bought maybe 5 years ago.

I ordered some Proto ratcheting wrenches from McMaster-Carr last week. I ordered them primarily based on the review that woodstockva did on them and here is his thread about that. He mentions they are made in the USA. Great.

So I ordered 2 "versa grip" metric and 2 "versa grip" SAE from McMaster. Many of you will know that McM doesn't advertise brand names, but it was obviously Proto from the way it was advertised. Or was it?

The two SAE wrenches I received are GearWrench brand. The two metric wrenches I received are Proto brand. Aside from the markings and the color (the Protos were black), they are the same wrenches. The Proto wrenches are clearly marked as being made in Taiwan just like GearWrench.

Now I know that GearWrench is generally not terrible and most people would be happy with them. I haven't broken one of my older ones (though some of them did stop ratcheting smoothly after several years but I could probably fix them by soaking them in ATF or something). However I already have a set of decent Taiwanese ratcheting wrenches and I thought I was buying a made in the USA product. I would like to support my fellow Americans and try to do my part to keep at least some tool manufacturing in this country. Did Proto switch production to Taiwan in the time since woodstockva did his review? Or do they have two lines?

Do I have other options for USA-made ratcheting wrenches other than Snap On? Is Armstrong my only other choice? I would prefer to avoid Armstrong as well, even if those are still made in the USA. I don't like Danaher as a company. They have several products I have hated and in my mind they have no interest in producing a quality tool but only care about price, and any tools from them that aren't **** is just them getting lucky. In my opinion. I know they do have a bunch of nice products and all but I want to give my money to a company that I know really does care about tool quality.

Do I have options other than Snap On? I am extremely disappointed with Proto right now.

Oh, and the anti-slip design on the open end of the Proto and GW does not seem to be as serious as the Snap On SOEX series wrench I have (only one at the moment). I have not tested it and it's possible that it works really well even though it looks worse, but, eh, I doubt it.

Let me know if you guys would like some photos of the Protos next to the GearWrenches. Can provide some this evening if so.

Thanks.

 

[shanny19]

You're disappointed with Proto based on the Gearwrench wrenches you bought????? The black Proto are Taiwan. Just buy some of the USA Proto w/ the I-beam handles and enjoy.

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

You're disappointed with Proto based on the Gearwrench wrenches you bought????? The black Proto are Taiwan. Just buy some of the USA Proto w/ the I-beam handles and enjoy.

I'm disappointed because I read that these were a USA product and what I received is not a USA product. It's simply a more expensive re-brand of GearWrench.

Again, I am not saying GearWrench is ****. I'm just saying that I'd prefer to support American manufacturing. I already have a decent set of Taiwanese ratcheting wrenches with my Williams set.

The 2 Protos and 2 GWs I just got are going back to McM. Just not sure what to buy instead.

So you're saying Proto does have 2 different lines? Is the color the indicator?

 

[shanny19]

Just not sure what to buy instead.

USA Proto w/ the I-beam handles. They're awesome.

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

USA Proto w/ the I-beam handles. They're awesome.

I'll look around and see what I can find.

Thanks for the info and the quick responses.

 

[arz71]

USA Proto w/ the I-beam handles. They're awesome.

Do you got any pics/links with the Proto/ with the I-beam handles, have not seen/heard of these before - interested.

 

[roverhybrids]

subscribed

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

Do you got any pics/links with the Proto/ with the I-beam handles, have not seen/heard of these before - interested.

I believe I found what he meant: http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/i...tion-Reversible-Ratcheting-Wrenches---Spline/

I see they have the series "JSCVMxxT" (** is the placeholder for the size) and "JSCVMxxA". The T must mean Taiwan as those are NOT the I-beam ones and look like what I got (except I was looking at full polish on their site). The A ones which I just linked do say I-beam so A must mean America.

I will return the other wrenches to McM and I will order a couple of these and see how they are. Maybe I'll hold onto the Taiwanese ones to do a quick comparison to these (though it wouldn't be a super serious comparison since I don't want to open the plastic baggies the Taiwanese ones are in since I'll be returning them).

 

[Ign]

Do you have an awesome commercial account? Who orders tools from McCrapster?

Seriously though, were they actually competitive on price?

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

Do you have an awesome commercial account? Who orders tools from McCrapster?

Seriously though, were they actually competitive on price?

Their prices are good for some tools, but not all.

This is the last time I order tools from them, though. I want to know what to expect and I guess I overestimated my ability to figure things out.

I did correctly identify some other tools such as Bahco screwdrivers, though. I guess I was technically correct to identify Proto in this case, but had I ordered from a site that did show the actual part number, I'd probably have figured this out on my own. That's what I should've done.

What site would you recommend for USA-made Proto tools?

 

[Brownsfan]

I think you have 4 choices for USA ratcheting wrenches. Snap On,SK ,Proto and Armstrong. And fyi Armstrong is not Danaher anymore. They are part of the Apex tool group. I have heard nothing but good from people who have the Armstrong wrenches. I think there was a reasonably priced Snap On set in the classified section on here.

 

[Travisnd]

Craftsman Industrial's are also made in USA.

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

I think you have 4 choices for USA ratcheting wrenches. Snap On,SK ,Proto and Armstrong. And fyi Armstrong is not Danaher anymore. They are part of the Apex tool group. I have heard nothing but good from people who have the Armstrong wrenches. I think there was a reasonably priced Snap On set in the classified section on here.

I'm sure they are fine, but I also hear lots of praise for Craftsman and those cheap wrenches have rounded off way too many bolts on me. In any case, I am not just looking for a good wrench, but a good wrench made in the USA and NOT simply a USA version of a Taiwanese design, either.

Before I made that post, I looked into them a little bit, did a Google search checked a few results, one of which was their Wikipedia Entry. The entry implies that Apex itself is affiliated with Danaher? Then again, Wikipedia is far from perfect. Is it incorrect (or maybe I am interpreting it incorrectly)? If that is incorrect and they really aren't Danaher anymore, then I may order one of theirs and compare as well.


Travis: Thanks for the recommendation. I personally still won't go for Craftsman, even if USA, but I do believe you and others who have said they are better. The information may be useful to someone else in this thread, though. If I were going to go Craftsman, I would definitely check out the set you mentioned. I'm honestly trying to get away from store brands, not just Craftsman, but I am extra biased against Craftsman because I have had too many bolt heads ruined by their lower-quality stuff. The reason I'm against store brands is that they make their business decisions 100% based on cost to them. Whereas with a brand like Snap On, Wright, or even Proto, you know that they care a lot more about quality and less about price. So you might sometimes get a good product from a store brand, it's only coincidence that the supplier happened to bid a good price to supply that product and they also happen to make a decent product.

 

[toddoky]

The Proto spline drive ratcheting wrenches are the only ones they make in the US, their standard wratcheting wrenches are all made in Taiwan. I just bought a set of the spline drive wrenches and they are superb, you will not be dissapointed in them.

 

[Brownsfan]

They are not part of Danaher anymore. The only company Danaher kept is Matco. Its worse than Danaher. They are a part of Bain Capital.

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

They are not part of Danaher anymore. The only company Danaher kept is Matco. Its worse than Danaher. They are a part of Bain Capital.

Oh man, can it get worse than Bain? That company is ruining this country. Thank you for correcting me/Wikipedia. I will definitely not order from Armstrong. I'm surprised that Bain hasn't shipped all these jobs to China yet... because that is basically what they do. Buy companies, ruin them, ship the jobs off, keep the profits. It's disgusting.

Honestly I don't much care for Stanley, either, but I will take them over Danaher and Bain, so Proto it is. I honestly don't understand why Stanley thinks they need to own every tool company in the world. It pisses me off that so many companies today, instead of trying to be competitive, simply buy out competitors. Why build a better product when you can just buy your competition? But at least Proto makes good products in the USA still.

But either way, I love the idea of open-ended wrenches that work, so the ASD feature of the Protos interests me a lot (as does Snappy's Flank Drive Plus, Wright's WrightGrip, etc.). Sometimes I've gotta remove control arm bolts and such with an open-ended on one side, so having an open-ended wrench that I can feel confident in does matter to me.

 

[67King]

I ordered some Proto ratcheting wrenches from McMaster-Carr last week. I ordered them primarily based on the review that woodstockva did on them and here is his thread about that. He mentions they are made in the USA. Great.

So I ordered 2 "versa grip" metric and 2 "versa grip" SAE from McMaster. Many of you will know that McM doesn't advertise brand names, but it was obviously Proto from the way it was advertised. Or was it?

The two SAE wrenches I received are GearWrench brand. The two metric wrenches I received are Proto brand. Aside from the markings and the color (the Protos were black), they are the same wrenches. The Proto wrenches are clearly marked as being made in Taiwan just like GearWrench.

Just took a look on McMaster's website. They specifically state that the "Premium" are US made, and that the "Economy" are imported. If you ordered Economy, they told you what you were getting. If you ordered Premium, I'd get in touch with them.

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

Just took a look on McMaster's website. They specifically state that the "Premium" are US made, and that the "Economy" are imported. If you ordered Economy, they told you what you were getting. If you ordered Premium, I'd get in touch with them.

I ordered the "versa grip" ones. It says it has the spline drive and an anti-slip open end, so to me, that could only be Proto. Proto was the only ratcheting wrench I knew of that had those features. By the way, they do seem to have the spline drive even though they are Taiwanese. GearWrench included. Or at least it looks closer to spline than any of my other wrenches.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#combination-wrenches/=w6y50o

I did get in touch with them and they are allowing me to return them. I have no issue with that. I do have an issue with them not telling us the brand name of their tools, but I'm just as responsible for knowing that up front and ordering anyway. So while I'm not going to order tools from them anymore, I really can't fault them too much. I will continue to order some parts from them. I will be spending $5 of my own money to return them, but that is reasonable since they technically did provide a product that represents what I ordered.

 

[KamiCrit]

Made a visual representation of the two ratcheting wrenches causing so much aggravation.

Top is Taiwan, Bottom is USA.

 

[arz71]

Made a visual representation of the two ratcheting wrenches causing so much aggravation.

Top is Taiwan, Bottom is USA.

Thanks I did not know the top one was Taiwan, good to know.

 

[doojus]

Do I have other options for USA-made ratcheting wrenches other than Snap On?
Do I have options other than Snap On? I am extremely disappointed with Proto right now.

Wait for the new SKs

https://scontent.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10921650_974148339270009_639876135368126140_o.jpg

 

[RunninOnEmpty]

That SK looks great. And I can clearly see the open end has an equivalent of Flank Drive Plus which is exactly what I'm looking for.

I'll be ordering a couple of the USA Protos, but I will definitely also order one or two of the SKs when they come out. I'll probably buy a full set later from whichever brand I prefer.

I'll probably also buy one or two of the Snap On ratcheting flank drive plus ones on Ebay when I see them for a good price. Then I will be able to compare all of them.

Maybe I should pick up stubby ratcheting wrench sets, too. Maybe I'll go Snap On for those (if I can find a decent price on Ebay) and SK and/or Proto for the standard length ones.

 

[Manny2_0]

Note
That the pictured sk is non reversible, thus has 0 offset on the box end which is NO Bueno at times

 

[Bruce57]

That SK looks great. And I can clearly see the open end has an equivalent of Flank Drive Plus which is exactly what I'm looking for.

I'll be ordering a couple of the USA Protos, but I will definitely also order one or two of the SKs when they come out. I'll probably buy a full set later from whichever brand I prefer.

I'll probably also buy one or two of the Snap On ratcheting flank drive plus ones on Ebay when I see them for a good price. Then I will be able to compare all of them.

Maybe I should pick up stubby ratcheting wrench sets, too. Maybe I'll go Snap On for those (if I can find a decent price on Ebay) and SK and/or Proto for the standard length ones.

Good luck trying to get the Snap-on on eBay for a reasonable price. I got one there, still pretty expensive. The rest I bought were Armstrongs. I'm pretty happy with the Armstrongs.

 

[nnySk]

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4825484/ Small set sae

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4809603/ Large sae set

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4811703/ Metric


http://www.zoro.com/i/G4809594/ metric

 

[Manny2_0]

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4825484/ Small set sae

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4809603/ Large sae set

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4811703/ Metric


http://www.zoro.com/i/G4809594/ metric

The metrics are the only ones I looked at and they are cheaper on ebay from tools plus

I suppose you could get them directly from them and save them ebay fee's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321548086345?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Dr.JohnnyFever]

The metrics are the only ones I looked at and they are cheaper on ebay from tools plus

I suppose you could get them directly from them and save them ebay fee's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321548086345?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

If you do not need them *right now*, Zoro has 20% off coupon codes fairly often.

That would make them $308.32 from Zoro instead of $329 from Tools Plus.

If you have the patience to wait for one of Zoro's 30% sales, that would make them $269.78.

 

[n8n]

That SK looks great. And I can clearly see the open end has an equivalent of Flank Drive Plus which is exactly what I'm looking for.

I see that, glad to see SK is stepping up to the big leagues. With all the chatter about these wrenches this is the first time I've seen any indication that the open ends were going to have a FDP like arrangement, which is surprising.

I'd love to see that given the same test that woodstockva did to the WG and FDP combos... maybe demonstrate breaking the bolt with the ratchet end as well to "prove" the ratchet mechanism.

 

[dnschmidt]

You do realize that the patent for the spline drive you like so much is owned by KABO Taiwan and that Proto and everybody else that uses them pays KABO a royalty. Worrying about COO in the modern world is a waste of time. I'm not wild about it either but facts are facts.

 

[Triple macs]

The Proto catalog only has 4 sets of US made ratcheting wrenches when you exclude the older "dog bone" style and ratcheting flare nut wrenches. All of the black chrome and everything else is made in Taiwan.

 

[Manny2_0]

If you do not need them *right now*, Zoro has 20% off coupon codes fairly often.

That would make them $308.32 from Zoro instead of $329 from Tools Plus.

If you have the patience to wait for one of Zoro's 30% sales, that would make them $269.78.[/QUOTE]

Gracias

 

[woodstockva]

Wow...I missed this post earlier....

Yes, the black ones are made in Taiwan. The Chrome ones are made in USA.

Also, ALL the ratcheting flex-heads are black as far as I know.....meaning only the ratcheting chrome ones (and non-ratcheting chrome) that I reviewed are your USA made option. I do have others (locking flex ratcheting & stubby ratcheting) and they are black.

Sorry for the confusion....I didnt think to bring that up!