Another what chrome sockets to buy thread
- Thread starter nomadicbohunk
- Start date
richfinn
Well-known member
I dont understand the hatred for the Ko-ken brand from a guy who has never tried it??
It's not even a pro-USA rant??
Ko-ken are way better quality than Gearwrench which are an Ok starter brand in my opinion (I have the Gearwrench serpentine belt kit and the chrome sockets in that kit are nothing special at all)
Ko-ken are a professional brand for tradesmen
measuredtwice
Well-known member
It's not even pro-Taiwan propaganda. 99.99% of the time it's a pro-Taiwan rant (typically accompanied by bashing American brands). The other 00.01% is pro-USA. Forum must be based in Taiwan.
I agree
I think Ko-ken's stuff has improved over the years. (Like many other brands also.)
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Chiming in: The finish on Koken stuff is actually really nice. A mix of satin finish and smooth polished.
Yup, Ko-Ken is hard to beat. Fit/finish, features/design, quality/strength, and price. Only downside is not super easy availability in U.S. For the warranty wonks here. . . warranty doesn't matter to me, I've never broken a socket.
I picked up a mint set of 3/8" drive Whitworth Koken's at a flea market last winter. I had no need for them and turned them over quickly at auction. All I can comment on is the appearance and I must say they look fantastic.
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I’ve never heard of Koken before would they be good to try professionally I am in the market for some e-torx
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
measuredtwice
Well-known member
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
MISSING SIZES. Only killer for me with Koken. What I would do for that 1/4 drive zeal 9mm and 15mm. Or you're using your nut-grip sockets for some strut mount nuts, which were 15mm, but are 16mm on the new mounts, and a different pitch so you cant use the original nuts. And yet, my set does not include the required size.
Eventually I'll wear the 1/4 zeal out. I'd happily buy a set a year at double the price for the hassle they save me.
I suppose you do have a point about the Zeal 9mm 1/4" but my 'standard' (non-Zeal) Ko-ken sets have no skips. I go 3/8" drive with fastener sizes over 13mm/14mm anyway. Matter of fact I've never used my 1/4" 15mm sockets.
Edit, I just looked and my 1/4" Ko-ken 4mm-14mm set does skip 4.5mm & 5.5mm
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richfinn
Well-known member
I bought the nutgrips on your recommendation, they are a brilliant design and work perfectly. They really let you attack tricky jobs with confidence in restricted areas
Al Borland
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2016
- Messages
- 1,598
At the end of the workshift, do the sockets turn the nuts/bolts to your satisfaction?
If they turn the fasteners, everything else is personal taste. Do you like shiny or satin, Chrome or industrial? Prefer Snap-on service/status or being able to afford lunch?
If they turn the fasteners, everything else is personal taste. Do you like shiny or satin, Chrome or industrial? Prefer Snap-on service/status or being able to afford lunch?
mowkep
Well-known member
Williams USA is very good for the money
BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I bought the nutgrips on your recommendation, they are a brilliant design and work perfectly. They really let you attack tricky jobs with confidence in restricted areas
Glad you like them!
My big thing about them is their holding strength, it's reasonable. They hold as tightly as required, and are then easily removed. Magnetic sockets on larger sized nuts can become so stuck to the fastener that they overcome the detent on the extension. So then your magnetic socket is stuck to the fastener, in the recessed hole, still on the fastener. Yeah, locking extensions work, but they're thicker. Strut mount bolts are the main use of my 3/8 drive, like when they drop through the cowl or the back seats. Not some place you want a magnetic socket stuck on a fastener - since you needed a magnetic socket, it's obviously a bit obscured.
They make 1/4 drive universal nut grip sockets, and e-torx nut-grip for those BMW aluminum fasteners.
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MaximRecoil
Well-known member
No, it doesn't make sense. There's a critical temperature that steel has to reach in order to recrystallize as austenite. If the steel doesn't reach that temperature then you haven't accomplished anything. If Snap-on had a faster way of heating steel to the critical temperature, they would use it on everything, not just on Williams branded stuff.
Williams is one of Snap-on's industrial brands. They aren't going to improperly heat-treat them, or not heat treat them at all, because industrial use is as demanding as, or more demanding than, the automotive use that the Snap-on brand is primarily marketed toward, and improperly heat-treated, or not heat-treated at all, sockets would hold up about as well as the cheapest, no-brand, dollar store sockets you can find. The first time you applied any significant amount of torque to them it would round out the socket's broached section and/or its female square drive, rendering it useless. That wouldn't be a wise financial decision, because practically every Williams socket they sold would come back to them for a warranty claim.
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
And the purchasing agent would be told none of that $hit again.
That Craftsman is impressively slim despite its age.
Good stuff. Thinner universal-joint sockets is further optimisation that makes sense. But it adds to costs. The thinner the wall, the more precisely centred must be the broaching.
Koken Zeal sockets are reputed to be slim. And sure enough, they’re the slimmest I found. Here are the diameters of 14 mm ‘6-point’ sockets (there being no bi-hex Zeal sockets) in the different drive sizes:
Koken 2400MZ 1/4" drive: 18.3 mm diameter
Koken 3400MZ 3/8" drive: 19.0 mm diameter
Koken 4400MZ 1/2" drive: 19.5 mm diameter.
Presumably these are weaker than bulkier sockets, if the bulky ones have accurately centred broaching.
JP Chestnut
Well-known member
We can agree to disagree. Want you just said amounts to “there’s only one way to heat treat” which is such ******** that I’m not going to engage with you further.
MaximRecoil
Well-known member
No, what I said amounts to exactly what I said, and you addressed none of it.
Calling something "********" without having an argument of any sort = a tacit concession on your part.
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mille755
Active member
Are you kidding?
I mean really?
Everything craftsman is garbage, tekton garbage too?
The world might need to come up with some better tos for you bro, because guess what I have and use cman, tekton, snappy and many more, and guess what in the real world if you can't get the job done with a mid tier brand I question the mechanic not the tools.
Is snap on (insert other best in class brand)better, yes. Is the jump from craftsman to snap on the jump from garbage to perfect? No.
Maybe you are just stuck on the flare nut wrench that sucked, because I have seen at least 20 people complain about those flare nut wrenches. But most of the other craftsman mechanics tools were pretty decent when they were USA and after they started using flank drive type designs. I have g/g2 sockets and wrenches which have really never given me any issues. Modern cman, who knows.
MaximRecoil
Well-known member
Did you watch the video that that video is a followup to? It wasn't just Tekton that failed. Every wrench he tried "failed" the test except for the Chinese Craftsman. So I suppose that means that Chinese Craftsman doesn't ****?
All the wrenches were fully polished except for the Craftsman, which had a very crude/rough finish in the open end jaws. A rough finish obviously grips a bolt head better than a polished finish; it's effectively a poor man's Flank Drive Plus or Wrightgrip. Grind some serrations into the Tekton and other brands he tested and see what happens. Alternatively, try the same test with a Snap-on (standard non-Plus version) or any other high-end wrench that has polished open end jaws and I suspect it would "fail" too. Open end wrenches inherently **** by design, which is why improvements like Flank Drive Plus or Wrightgrip exist, though they have the downside of leaving teeth marks in fasteners. Open end wrenches are a last resort for situations where it's impossible to use a socket or box end wrench.
OP
nomadicbohunk
Member
OP here. Thanks everyone, I learned a lot about a few things I hadn't thought about.
I go from working on priceless items to rusty old junk at this point in life. Basically, I finally got super mad at an out of spec socket I had this week (working on a lawn mower). I was finally like enough is enough, I'm ordering a full set of good sockets and some nice ratchets. There was a lot more swearing involved than that.
I ordered a set of "normal" kokens in 12 point (I need some 12 point soon for a project). I also got a set of z series 1/4 I use a lot. I already had their spark plug sockets and I was very impressed by them.
I'm thinking I'll go with either all koken or metric koken and sae williams. We'll see. I'm pretty cheap, so this will be a big purchase for me.
I'm going to get 6 point shallow, standard, deep in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2. I'll get a few 12 point sets, but only for specific stuff that I'll need it for. Probably just 3/8.
I go from working on priceless items to rusty old junk at this point in life. Basically, I finally got super mad at an out of spec socket I had this week (working on a lawn mower). I was finally like enough is enough, I'm ordering a full set of good sockets and some nice ratchets. There was a lot more swearing involved than that.
I ordered a set of "normal" kokens in 12 point (I need some 12 point soon for a project). I also got a set of z series 1/4 I use a lot. I already had their spark plug sockets and I was very impressed by them.
I'm thinking I'll go with either all koken or metric koken and sae williams. We'll see. I'm pretty cheap, so this will be a big purchase for me.
I'm going to get 6 point shallow, standard, deep in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2. I'll get a few 12 point sets, but only for specific stuff that I'll need it for. Probably just 3/8.
I have a set of Williams USA sockets in shallow SAE, and they are very nice. I would recommend them.
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
We go from a good set of chrome sockets to open end wrenches. Imagine then having to go to how to use a combination wrench properly.
An English trained tradesman explained how they were taught , You use the box end to loosen and the open end to quickly turn the nut, He likely got rapped pretty soundly if he didn't follow that.
An English trained tradesman explained how they were taught , You use the box end to loosen and the open end to quickly turn the nut, He likely got rapped pretty soundly if he didn't follow that.
I agree and think this bears repeating. Too often I see optional use of open-ended spanners. That’s bad practice.
The open end acts on just two flats/corners of the fastener instead of six and can slip off both radially (through the open jaw) and in the cam-off direction (twisting off) more easily. Meanwhile with features like Flank Drive Plus it’s critical that there be no radial slip – that the fastener be fully seated in the spanner’s throat – or the off-corner engagement features cease to work in your favour and often start to work against you.
Meanwhile the jaws also elastically expand more readily than the ring end, since the ring end is closed and can only expand from tension in the hoop-stress orientation while the cantilievered jaws of the open end bend open at their root with tremendous leverage.
In short, as you said, the open end should be a last resort.
If you like USA tools (I do) then I think Williams USA is the best value for basic sockets. Ko-ken for some speciality sockets. I like Williams USA wrenches too.
powertrip
Well-known member
Where is the best place to order Koken products from without high shipping rates?
Pretty much nowhere. Frank is mostly out of the business, at least for the moment. If you want a single to demo before you commit get it from eBay.
Then put in a big order so the $20 shipping is a smaller pill to swallow on a percentage basis.
https://palmac.net/koken-z-series-r...jElEN_ikFMy1M0Fjuq8bAoPyJre_fwZRoC1RMQAvD_BwE
That place is the only US distributor I’ve found with the complete Zeal inventory.
toddmorr
Well-known member
Amazon JP usually ends up around 10% for shipping.
I'm not quite in it so deep as to have a welding truck but sounds like you've been there a time or two!