Antique “Spot” and “Plain” Clock-like Tool/Measuring Device

[yatg]

Were there smaller inset dials to count past that, tallying each revolution of 0-50' that the main dial took?

Not sure what you're asking. I was stating that a survey technique is to divide a plot into a grid of 50x50 foot squares. The dials on the OP's device go from 0-50 and there might be some sort of a correlation if this device is used for surveying. I would guess that for each rev of the main dial the smaller dials increment just like a gas/electric/water meter. If this is a field use device, there should be a method to reset to zero.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I would guess that for each rev of the main dial the smaller dials increment just like a gas/electric/water meter.

That was my question, thanks! Others, as well, by the way. An opisometer, for example, which is a device with a finely graduated wheel for converting inches along a non-straight route on a paper map to actual distance.

 

[Farmer J.]

Here is a list of the WILLIAM Shimmin's related to Lugz' locomotive-related Shimmins (or at least what I could come up with in a quick search). I tried to find their occupations to see if there was anything more that might relate to the device. Did not have any obvious luck in the predecessors or immediate offspring,

I began to look at what seems the same information, but didn't have the tenacity to follow it through as far as you have, thanks.

 

[Farmer J.]

Not sure what you're asking. I was stating that a survey technique is to divide a plot into a grid of 50x50 foot squares. The dials on the OP's device go from 0-50 and there might be some sort of a correlation if this device is used for surveying. I would guess that for each rev of the main dial the smaller dials increment just like a gas/electric/water meter. If this is a field use device, there should be a method to reset to zero.

It reckon it's a fair probability that those small dials work just like an old electricity meter, except to record the old 50 foot grid squares. Each full revolution of the big pointer would register tens, hundreds and thousands on the small pointers.
It would need a method to reset to zero, but without further information from the OP this is difficult to ascertain!
I did think, assuming that this is an instrument for recording survey measurements, and assuming that the holes in the ends of it are to enable keys or small crank handles to be inserted to turn the dials, then they would best be removable so as to prevent inadvertent alterations of the dials whilst the surveyor moves from one point to another.

 

[Farmer J.]

Maybe just a fancy tool for foundations or fences

Yea, I agree, but for foundations of cities and for fencelines thousands of miles long.. I may well be wrong, but think it was a tool made for this job, measuring America. Noting all those measurements in a notebook with a pencil would have been so tedious!
Beginning in 1785, it became the largest land survey in history stretching from the Ohio river to the Pacific coast and from Lake Erie to the Mexican border. It prepared the ground for the sale of almost two billion acres, and shaped landscapes and cities across the US...
But I dunno yet what W Shimmin or Maryport has to do with it. This book is a really great read though!

 

[yatg]

Measuring America.

Thanks. Ordered a used hardcover from Amazon for about $6. Quite a few more available.

 

[Pockitweesil]

Odd one, but any ideas what this is And what is was used for? Couldn’t find anything online. Looks like a clock, but only goes to 50 on each side.

I believe this is a billiard scoreboard, the spot and plain refering to the cue balls of each player. William Shimmin (1853-1917) was a Foreman Engine Fitter for the Maryport & Carlisle Railway. I am currently trying to track down his patent for this scoreboard so I can put a date on it, which is how I came across this thread. I know that his son, George Featherstone Shimmin (1881-1955) also took out a couple of patents for inventions unrelated to his job as a draughtsman for the railway in 1913 and 1914, but haven't yet found this one by his father.

 

[Leviton]

I believe this is a billiard scoreboard, the spot and plain refering to the cue balls of each player. William Shimmin (1853-1917) was a Foreman Engine Fitter for the Maryport & Carlisle Railway. I am currently trying to track down his patent for this scoreboard so I can put a date on it, which is how I came across this thread. I know that his son, George Featherstone Shimmin (1881-1955) also took out a couple of patents for inventions unrelated to his job as a draughtsman for the railway in 1913 and 1914, but haven't yet found this one by his father.

​

I'm going to love it if this turns out to be a billiard scoreboard. We were nowhere close to that.

William had patent GB190504152A for ash bins in 1906.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm going to love it if this turns out to be a billiard scoreboard.

EDIT: But, I have lots of questions. How would the players actuate it if the hands are under glass? Also, it's been a long time since I played straight pool, preferring 8- and 9-ball, and I have never played English billiards. Are the numbers right for keeping score in billiards?

 

[qdvuu]

I think these gauges were used to check the dimensions of plain (unthreaded) and spot (threaded) holes.

 

[Leviton]

Pockitweesil,

Where did you get this photo?

How did you come by the title for it?

Do you have photos of the sides and back of it?

Thanks.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Are the numbers right for keeping score in billiards?

I did a little research. I will reiterate that I don't play English billiards, which is completely different than straight pool, but I have not found a photo of a billiards or billiards/snooker scoreboard that matches these numbers or graduations. The examples I found were consistently 0-20-40-60-80-100, with separate graduations for scoring points in between from 1-19. I specifically looked for antiques. The modern variants tend to follow that same look, which is wooden, but long and horizontal, with sliders. Not like an abacus, the way we keep straight pool scores here in the US, but similar. If you Google, you'll find them.

That's not to argue. Just to report back what I found. Perhaps these are for some type of billiards that uses a different scoring system, or perhaps the game has evolved, or I am not understanding. I would gladly defer to a billiards expert. Just saying that these numbers, 0-50, in steps of 5, and three separate dials for counting by ones, doesn't match what I am seeing in my searches.

 

[Pockitweesil]

In addition to the example on this forum, I have seen two of these offered for sale in auction in the UK and both have been described by the vendor/auctioneer, as 'billiard scoreboards' although that doesn't in itself make the description correct.

I know that Burroughes & Watts first introduced an electronic scoreboard in 1875 which worked by buttons set into the cushion rail of the table, connected to a battery stored under the table, and wired directly to the scoreboard on the wall. This scoreboard seems to have the same connectors to allow this arrangement.

The only issue I have is the scale, as games of English billiards from this date were normally 100-up, and the Burroughes & Watts dials used this scale, albeit that the dials were significantly bigger. It could be that 50-up was selected to make the score more easily seen with the smaller dial used by Shimmin.

It is not clear exactly how the gearing works for the smaller dials, but multiples of 50 would not work for billiards, which is an issue that works against my assumption. I have also been unable to find this item being advertised for sale in the local area or elsewhere, although if he was directly supplying local billiard rooms, I would not except them to have been advertised for wider retail.

I'm still looking for conclusive evidence on this one.