dnschmidt
Well-known member
While the rest of us just ramble on MONTE delivers the goods. MONTE still has to be the weirdest name for a German I've ever heard. Bernard would even be better than Monte.
Any ratcheting wrench recommandations ?
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lightning02
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- Jul 29, 2013
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have a link?
bob from indiana
Well-known member
I use husky from home Depot. They seem to be Gear Wrench re brands. No trouble from them so far. I have the non reversible type. Watch for good sale prices around Christmas.
I also have Dual 80s (metric only) and don’t mention it very often since few would understand spending $500 on wrenches. They are awesome though and I don’t think anything else beats them. I have Carlyle in SAE and must say on sale they are an incredible value just a little larger and less refined than Snap-on.
How do the length of the Jokers compare to Snap-on? I must admit I own no Wera tools because the strange grips offend me. I love Wiha drivers though.
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http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/i...atcheting-Combination-Wrench-Set---12-point-/
No love for Blackhawk on here?
No love for Blackhawk on here?
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I think they get lost in the shuffle especially with Proto having so many versions of ratcheting wrenches these days.
The Blackhawk sets have been around for quite awhile and are really great wrenches. I have the set you linked along with their stubby set. I think they would be an excellent choice for someone that isn't fond of spline ratcheting boxed ends.
eschoendorff
Well-known member
Not a fan of Wera grips either.
Ign
Well-known member
$375 on eBay
I dunno how strong the Weras are
I will say (and I say it so often Fedwrench is tired of hearing it!) my old SK reversibles are awesome and have been since ~'05. They were Kabo-OEM'd and pre-SK-SHTF. I think SK marketed them as their G-spline and were supposed to fit all kinds of fasteners, but they don't look like today's "spline drive."
Really MY POINT is that a quality Taiwanese 72T reversible ratcheting wrench is probably 99% as good as anything (including Snap On) for 25% of the cost....
These old SK Kabos have not locked up on me or self-reversed and they've withstood breaking frozen fasteners free more than I should admit.
Granted I haven't had any problems with the new Snappys but I've hardly used them yet.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Ign
Well-known member
pioneer1
Well-known member
Where does Tekton fall in here?
72 teeth, 6 point , made in Taiwan
72 teeth, 6 point , made in Taiwan
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$375 on eBay
I dunno how strong the Weras are
I will say (and I say it so often Fedwrench is tired of hearing it!) my old SK reversibles are awesome and have been since ~'05. They were Kabo-OEM'd and pre-SK-SHTF. I think SK marketed them as their G-spline and were supposed to fit all kinds of fasteners, but they don't look like today's "spline drive."
Really MY POINT is that a quality Taiwanese 72T reversible ratcheting wrench is probably 99% as good as anything (including Snap On) for 25% of the cost....
These old SK Kabos have not locked up on me or self-reversed and they've withstood breaking frozen fasteners free more than I should admit.
Granted I haven't had any problems with the new Snappys but I've hardly used them yet.
See above. For the price and with the warranty; they are hard not to recommend.
For a little more money the Carlyle I mentioned earlier have a higher tooth count and are just a little smaller which might occasionally help them fit somewhere the Tekton would not. They also have anti-slip open ends which may or may not be a selling point for you.
MJK
Well-known member
So, I have been pondering this same topic.
I have old Craftsman USA reversible offset chromes that I believe were made by SK? I've added/tried multiple other 'mid-grade' sets over the years (other CMs, lots of GW, etc), but I still only really like those original Craftsmans. I use the others rarely and begrudgingly.
GJ it seems is influencing my judgement, as I have found reason to upgrade to lots of 'nice' tools in recent years - ratchets, sockets, pliers, tool storage, screwdrivers, etc. You guys know the drill. I have limited hobby time, and have come to the conclusion I should enjoy it guilt free in the company of nice tools. I've considered therapy, but it is probably more expensive than the tools. Plus, I like it here.
So, here I am looking to upgrade ratcheting wrenches. Reversible, offset and something better than or equal to my favored Craftsman set in SAE. SO/BP/Williams seem nice if a little big around the ring. Facom 467JU12 are $300 on Amazon.de and look nice. I'm also seriously tempted by the Proto USA JSCV-11SA set on ToolsPlus.
Any opinions here between those 2 or something similar I should be looking at?
I have old Craftsman USA reversible offset chromes that I believe were made by SK? I've added/tried multiple other 'mid-grade' sets over the years (other CMs, lots of GW, etc), but I still only really like those original Craftsmans. I use the others rarely and begrudgingly.
GJ it seems is influencing my judgement, as I have found reason to upgrade to lots of 'nice' tools in recent years - ratchets, sockets, pliers, tool storage, screwdrivers, etc. You guys know the drill. I have limited hobby time, and have come to the conclusion I should enjoy it guilt free in the company of nice tools. I've considered therapy, but it is probably more expensive than the tools. Plus, I like it here.
So, here I am looking to upgrade ratcheting wrenches. Reversible, offset and something better than or equal to my favored Craftsman set in SAE. SO/BP/Williams seem nice if a little big around the ring. Facom 467JU12 are $300 on Amazon.de and look nice. I'm also seriously tempted by the Proto USA JSCV-11SA set on ToolsPlus.
Any opinions here between those 2 or something similar I should be looking at?
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Ign
Well-known member
Yep I don't actually have the Carlyle offset reversibles (standard length) but they sure *look* nice
I've said it before but think carefully about 6 point, I can really tell a difference at my one mill where I use 6pt Tektons - it's just a bit harder to engage the fastener. At my other mill I run 12pt (GW, ugh, but it works) and it's faster. Sure, really only a second of time but it's something I definitely notice.
When you're setting up two angle blocks, a couple 1-2-3's and a table stop....then tearing it all down to try to get it just right....ease matters
I've said it before but think carefully about 6 point, I can really tell a difference at my one mill where I use 6pt Tektons - it's just a bit harder to engage the fastener. At my other mill I run 12pt (GW, ugh, but it works) and it's faster. Sure, really only a second of time but it's something I definitely notice.
When you're setting up two angle blocks, a couple 1-2-3's and a table stop....then tearing it all down to try to get it just right....ease matters
Don’t confuse old SO which was pretty much the same as Williams/BP with the new style. I’m pretty sure the new style has the smallest ring available. Buy a 10mm or whatever your most commonly used size is and compare it to your old ones.
https://store.snapon.com/Flank-Drive-174-Plus-Reversible-Ratcheting-Combination-C629584.aspx
Therapy might actually be cheaper though.
I see it argued that six point makes more sense for ratcheting wrenches because you can always spin the ring to get it in the position you need.
But that ignores the fact, as you point out, that a twelve point wrench is faster and less finicky to get on the fastener. Imo, that has more value than a six point ring.
Don’t confuse old SO which was pretty much the same as Williams/BP with the new style. I’m pretty sure the new style has the smallest ring available. Buy a 10mm or whatever your most commonly used size is and compare it to your old ones.
https://store.snapon.com/Flank-Drive-174-Plus-Reversible-Ratcheting-Combination-C629584.aspx
Therapy might actually be cheaper though.
Those S-o's look so nice. I'm waiting for them to come out with a 0° offset ratcheting end and a 15° offset fixed box end style wrench.
That would be nice. Once you get plain open ends and ones with teeth it makes little sense to buy more combination wrenches. I really like my long Gearwrench zero offsets with ratcheting and fixed ends but they aren’t always practical.
MJK
Well-known member
Don’t confuse old SO which was pretty much the same as Williams/BP with the new style. I’m pretty sure the new style has the smallest ring available. Buy a 10mm or whatever your most commonly used size is and compare it to your old ones.
https://store.snapon.com/Flank-Drive-174-Plus-Reversible-Ratcheting-Combination-C629584.aspx
Therapy might actually be cheaper though.
Those do look nice, I had no idea there was an updated style out. Thanks. You weren't kidding about the price. Wow.
What's the story with the teeth in the open end? Seems like a good way to chew up fasteners, no?
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Indexmill
Well-known member
Therapy would definitely be cheaper than Snap On... But, probably not as much fun.
justme-
Well-known member
The teeth bite into the fastener to reduce slipping and rounding...lots of wrench companies have them..and in years past there was quite a bit of discussion on here about them.
I have a set of Proto wrenches with them and a single snapon (10mm) with it...yes it will work, it does bite and it does reduce slipping.
I'm old-school tho and rarely use open end wrenches for high torque, but if the box end of a standard wrench slips the toothed open end is the next go to before turbo sockets.
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MJK
Well-known member
Agreed. I have applied this same logic to many tools and cars. Works for me!
I think I agree with you.
Interesting. I can see where it might be useful for some folks, but that is definitely a turn off for me. Now that you mention it, I think the Proto set I was looking at may have the same thing.
So that leaves Facom? Spending $300 to order something from Germany that I have never seen seems a little risky, but I certainly have done dumber things.
Any other good ideas? I'm not opposed to used if there is an older version of something nice that is 'pre-teeth'.
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justme-
Well-known member
Lots of no teeth options from all manufacturers
Guys on here used to rave about wright wrenches...they have normal and teeth (called wright-grip). Most wrenches are smooth.
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Guys on here used to rave about wright wrenches...they have normal and teeth (called wright-grip). Most wrenches are smooth.
Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
MJK
Well-known member
This is a photo of my favorite metric ratcheting wrench. I think that set is about 20 years old now. SAE gear wrench equivalents are 5 years old and I just hate using them. I was hoping for something similar in design but nicer in an SAE set.
Maybe spline drive, or just standard 12 pt. Not sure it matters for me given that I tend to use the open end for higher torque and the ratcheting end to snug/remove.
Perhaps I am on a fool's errand and I should just be eBaying a set of the Craftsmans I know I like. Was hoping for a more complete set and something a little nicer though.
Facom here looks interesting
As does this MAC set
Based on comments in this thread and elsewhere on GJ, I have looked for others but not found SAE combination sets:
Gedore (found 3300060 but metric only)
Wright (9429 but not combination)
Hazet (606N/12 but metric only)
Could be my rusty Google Foo. Particularly in German.
Maybe spline drive, or just standard 12 pt. Not sure it matters for me given that I tend to use the open end for higher torque and the ratcheting end to snug/remove.
Perhaps I am on a fool's errand and I should just be eBaying a set of the Craftsmans I know I like. Was hoping for a more complete set and something a little nicer though.
Facom here looks interesting
As does this MAC set
Based on comments in this thread and elsewhere on GJ, I have looked for others but not found SAE combination sets:
Gedore (found 3300060 but metric only)
Wright (9429 but not combination)
Hazet (606N/12 but metric only)
Could be my rusty Google Foo. Particularly in German.
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The Germans aren’t big on making fractional wrenches. I also prefer plain open ends but if a rounded head is going to ruin my day and I can’t get anything but an open end on it I will use FD+ then replace the chewed up fastener. Unlike some ‘innovations’, it isn’t a gimmick.
It sounds like you have a good selection of plain open ends; consider having some non-slip on hand just in case.
I’d buy the new Facom over the pawn shop MAC set. I couldn’t stomach paying eBay prices for USA Craftsman. I’d understand if you wanted a single to complete a set but if you are buying them all there are better options.
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MJK
Well-known member
I'm not set per se, just worried that I am going to get under the car and use the new ones the same way I did the old ones out of force of habit (open end to break/torque, ratchet to remove/tighten) and goober up a bunch of fasteners. My OCD would not tolerate that well.
You do have a good point though. Do the FD+ and equivalents 'bite' into fasteners during normal use or only when you need them to?
MJK
Well-known member
^^^ That is how I am too. Thanks everyone for the input.
The more I learn the more confused I am. Check out this photo of the Facom.
I guess it is good that it would not damage fasteners during normal operation, but that opens up all sorts of questions I don't have the answer to. For example, if they can make the 'step' that much tighter tolerance why isn't the whole wrench that way? Or have they simply loosened the tolerance elsewhere? No idea.
Do the SO FD+, WrightGrips and Proto antislip 'teeth' similarly reside outside the normal fastener contact area? That would seem to be the best of both worlds. Extra grip when you need it, and non marring when you don't.
Sorry for the abundance of questions - I simply had no idea any of this was 'a thing' until recently.
The more I learn the more confused I am. Check out this photo of the Facom.
I guess it is good that it would not damage fasteners during normal operation, but that opens up all sorts of questions I don't have the answer to. For example, if they can make the 'step' that much tighter tolerance why isn't the whole wrench that way? Or have they simply loosened the tolerance elsewhere? No idea.
Do the SO FD+, WrightGrips and Proto antislip 'teeth' similarly reside outside the normal fastener contact area? That would seem to be the best of both worlds. Extra grip when you need it, and non marring when you don't.
Sorry for the abundance of questions - I simply had no idea any of this was 'a thing' until recently.
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That Facom 467 doesn’t have anti-slip teeth. It has the open equivalent of Facom’s OGV (like Snap-on Flank Drive).
This gets a larger contact area on the fastener and therefore damages it (and the tool) less. Instead of pushing on the corners of the fastener, which mars them because of the small contact area and consequent high stresses, there is a recess for the corners. Just ahead of the corner – but close to it so that the radial distance from the fastener axis is as large as possible for maximum leverage – there is a convex surface that hits the flat of the fastener. That convex surface initially has a line of contact on the flat of the fastener, but since a line has zero area the pressure is infinite (just as with a regular open-ended spanner acting on the corners). Therefore the tool and fastener immediately deform elastically until the area of contact is large enough to bear the load. The result is a greater contact area and more even pressure distribution over that contact area than with a regular spanner. The risk of elastic deformation going too far and becoming plastic (permanent) is reduced.
A major benefit of this arrangement is that it reduces the sensitivity to sizing errors of both tool and fastener. The fit doesn’t need to be perfect to keep stresses acceptably low.
A downside is that you need to slot the spanner fully home on the fastener or its fancy shape may work against you, increasing stresses in fastener and tool. You should do that anyway to reduce jaw-opening stresses, but in practice when working quickly with moderate torque and awkward access, some mechanics get a bit sloppy with fitting the spanner before turning it. You should be careful not to do that with these Flank Drive-inspired open-ended spanners.
This gets a larger contact area on the fastener and therefore damages it (and the tool) less. Instead of pushing on the corners of the fastener, which mars them because of the small contact area and consequent high stresses, there is a recess for the corners. Just ahead of the corner – but close to it so that the radial distance from the fastener axis is as large as possible for maximum leverage – there is a convex surface that hits the flat of the fastener. That convex surface initially has a line of contact on the flat of the fastener, but since a line has zero area the pressure is infinite (just as with a regular open-ended spanner acting on the corners). Therefore the tool and fastener immediately deform elastically until the area of contact is large enough to bear the load. The result is a greater contact area and more even pressure distribution over that contact area than with a regular spanner. The risk of elastic deformation going too far and becoming plastic (permanent) is reduced.
A major benefit of this arrangement is that it reduces the sensitivity to sizing errors of both tool and fastener. The fit doesn’t need to be perfect to keep stresses acceptably low.
A downside is that you need to slot the spanner fully home on the fastener or its fancy shape may work against you, increasing stresses in fastener and tool. You should do that anyway to reduce jaw-opening stresses, but in practice when working quickly with moderate torque and awkward access, some mechanics get a bit sloppy with fitting the spanner before turning it. You should be careful not to do that with these Flank Drive-inspired open-ended spanners.
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MJK
Well-known member
Well that makes a whole lot of sense, and sounds like something I can get behind.
Thank you for the explanation. I just ordered a set.
Thank you for the explanation. I just ordered a set.
Fluelikesymptoms
Well-known member
Yes definently I have the SO flank drive combos and I avoid using their open ends at all cost. They chew up fasteners more than my crappy cmans.
I'm not jumping on SO or being bias, I refer to SO (and thanks to GJ journal, William's too) for most things common. Their wrenches are not one of them, I probably wont ever purchase SO wrenches agian as I feel there is such a variety of offerings these days combined with my experience with their open ends, they can take a back seat on this one.
Never have a problem with their box ends though
MJK
Well-known member
Tallpilot - Can do.
FWIW, I also have a lot of SO & Williams tools I really like, including flare/line wrenches - but it is because I like the product. In this case, I don't think their offering best suits how I use them.
Hopefully these Facoms do. We'll see. Amazon says they should be here next week with 'medium grade' shipping.
7/11/19 Edit: They have been delivered as promised. They are lighter and thinner than expected. The finish is quite nice. The open end is not shaped in the form of the image above, it is just a straight sided open wrench. Perhaps that is just the SAE set I bought? In any case some 3/8" comparison photos are attached.
FWIW, I also have a lot of SO & Williams tools I really like, including flare/line wrenches - but it is because I like the product. In this case, I don't think their offering best suits how I use them.
Hopefully these Facoms do. We'll see. Amazon says they should be here next week with 'medium grade' shipping.
7/11/19 Edit: They have been delivered as promised. They are lighter and thinner than expected. The finish is quite nice. The open end is not shaped in the form of the image above, it is just a straight sided open wrench. Perhaps that is just the SAE set I bought? In any case some 3/8" comparison photos are attached.
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Flank Drive or Flank Drive Plus?
The Plus is designed to mar the fastener in order to grip it (though I’m a bit vague on the situations in which that’s supposed to be a good idea – maybe only at jaw-opening levels of torque?).
The Flank Drive non-Plus is designed to reduce pressures and damage to the fastener, although because it acts on the flats you might see light surface marks there more obviously than the bashed-in corners made by regular non-Flank Drive spanners.
MJK
Well-known member
In case anyone is in the market, I liked the Facom SAE set well enough to buy a metric set too. There is one set left at what I thought was a pretty good deal compared to the $328 on Ultimate Garage.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00B1C69U6/
^ 168 Euros - VAT + shipping = substantially less than $200 to my door
They have neither the teeth nor the OGV scalloping, which was fine by me.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00B1C69U6/
^ 168 Euros - VAT + shipping = substantially less than $200 to my door
They have neither the teeth nor the OGV scalloping, which was fine by me.
I have the same issue with liking the older craftsman professional us made reversible ratchet wrenches. I do not pull on them so hard because if they break I do not know how I would get it fixed and the open ends spread rather easily.
I have tried many ratchet wrenches and still like these the best. I do not like gearwrench. Not all gearwrench are the same, they have changed and continue to change. I like the long fixed box and ratcheting box Snap-ons the next best. I have the combination Flank drive plus and they work great when needed, but they can leave the bite marks in fasteners. I do not like leaving the marks, but have had the wrench help very well, even when different sockets and turbo sockets had trouble. I like the reversible short flex blue points for tight spots. I may get a shorter reversible fixed end combination set, we'll see. I have the original flank drive plus ratchet wrenches, the new ones are very nice. I plan on getting locking flex reversible long double box ratcheting wrenches in the future. I have slowed down with my tool purchases as my Snap-On guy retired. When I get another good driver I will probably go back to buying regularly again. You really need to have a good driver for service and deal$ too! Otherwise if you are paying full retail you are better off just ordering online. Especially if you are not financing your tools. If you are paying a few bucks a week pay it off over time, then you prepaid the interest on the tool loan, you should at least ride out the length of time, to get the most of your investment.
Anyways check out Carlysle at NAPA. If you get pars delivered regularly, they can delivery a new tool to you too! NAPA is pretty widespread around the US.
I have seen some nice ones from MAC and also older MATCO wrenches that look like they might be made by Armstrong. I wonder who makes ratchet wrenches for Matco now?
I recommend you trying the ratcheting action on whatever you look at because that is where the big difference is. Are the tolerances loose, are they sloppy making you move more that you should to work the fastener. Also how is the back drag. Lubrication helps as well.