Anybody else into Harrold Tools?

[d42jeep]

I guess that by 1939 Sears had decided that purchasing tools from Germany might not be such a great idea so at some point they switched to Danielson. I wonder if they ever used Harrold as a supplier?
1939 dated Danielson supplied Dunlap adjustable wrench.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here is a more colorful and biographical tilt on the early history of Harrold to the trade mag establishment notice I posted upthread, with a partial photo.



I don't do Facebook, but here is the link for someone who does who might be able to see more of the post...

Exploring Axe History

Harvey Joseph Harrold was born to Samuel Harrold and Nancy Culp Harrold on August 13th, 1878, in Columbiana, Ohio. Samuel was a lumberman and blacksmith, and Harvey was raised around a forge and...

www.facebook.com

I also ran into this 1922 oddity, that I couldn't readily explain and have not taken the time to explore further yet...



And here is a 1924 patent. (1510593, for the Search engine)

 

[Mintgrun]

I don't do Facebook, but here is the link for someone who does who might be able to see more of the post...

You captured all of the text, but here are the rest of the photos from that post.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

....here are the rest of the photos from that post.

Thanks, Tom. Looks like ol' Harvey is rowing across the river Styx with a stogey in his mouth!

 

[four.cycle]

^ I am somewhat puzzled by what I found when searching "Colonial Tool & Forge":


1922 announcement regarding name change of Harrold Tool & Forge Co. to Colonial Tool & Forge Co.


puzzlingly, the 1922 Ohio Industrial Directory shows them as being two separate entities at two separate locations.

While in the depths of this rabbit hole, I found one gentleman who is apparently very serious about his Harrold:


Harrold collection of Joshua Laclair

More discussion regarding Harrold at BladeForums.com

 

[LesserSon]

Sears…
I wonder if they ever used Harrold as a supplier?
-Don

The answer is yes, but I’m not sure about regular tools. The pliers, and maybe the screwdrivers (possibly all the tools, though I think it doubtful) in the HappiTime tool kits marketed for boys are clearly Harrold slipjoints, and Harrold was credited (I think on Progress is fine) with supplying boys kits through other retail outlets.

 

[LesserSon]

Looks like some kit wrenches in some sets, too (can’t see if they were branded). So maybe we can get Lugz to stop completely ignoring this mfr.

 

[Mintgrun]

I've got a couple of Shok-pruf screwdrivers. I didn't realize there was a Harrold connection. I think someone reshaped the blade end of the smaller handle.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found one gentleman who is apparently very serious about his Harrold:

So maybe we can get Lugz to stop completely ignoring this mfr.

I've got a couple of Shok-pruf screwdrivers.

Which you've apparently been holding out on us until now! Very cool!

Looks like this guy from the 'screwstarter/holder' thread also has one that apparently also has a screwstarting/holding provision.?

EBONITE SHOK-PRUF 9" Flat Head Plastic Handle?

 

[Snaparxon]

Been meaning to post this for years, finally got it done. I use it as a slag and weld spatter remover when welding. Real hardened steel, hasn't shown any knick or wear from what I use it for

 

[d42jeep]

I found some Harrold pliers at an estate sale today. They are kind of worn in the rivet area. I only buy them to post on this thread.
-Don

 

[What_dont_you_want]

^ I thought we had previously ascertained that the "Forged Steel USA" inside the triangle was Harrold?

I found this pair of slip joint pliers with the Forged Steel USA in a triangle. No other maker marks. Is this a Harrold's?

 

[What_dont_you_want]

That declaration should probably have an asterisk. In this thread: Pliers with "FORGED STEEL U.S.A." in depressed triangle we found a Forged Steel USA inside a triangle that was likely Harrold AND we found one that was definitely Herbrand.

I found this pair with the triangle but no name.

 

[What_dont_you_want]

^ I thought we had previously ascertained that the "Forged Steel USA" inside the triangle was Harrol

That declaration should probably have an asterisk. In this thread: Pliers with "FORGED STEEL U.S.A." in depressed triangle we found a Forged Steel USA inside a triangle that was likely Harrold AND we found one that was definitely Herbrand.

I found this with the triangle FORGED STEEL USA but no makers mark.

 

[What_dont_you_want]

Got interested in Harrold tools for personal reasons. I have found three screwdrivers in 4 years of looking. Steel isn't bad, handles are decent. I know they also made pliers, but I've never come across one in the wild.

Here's some info on the company:http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/CrescentHistory.ashx

Anybody else got Harrold tools they'd like to show us?

 

[d42jeep]

Good question. I just asked the same question on the plier thread about the pair of longnoses I found.
-Don

 

[LesserSon]

I think yes to both, but given that “Forged Steel USA” doesn’t actually spell “Harrold,” and that there have been some atypical (unfortunately also anonymous) examples bearing similar triangle stamps, we should allow some uncertainy.
My personal test is, if they look cheap and foreign, but say USA, they are probably Harrold.

 

[LesserSon]

Purely speculative, addressing the “looks made in Germany or Japan” reactions: production methods and possibly demographics of the work force might have been common to Harrold, and in the rapid restoration of industry in post-war Axis nations, leading to a similar, primitive look to the tools.

 

[RTM]

Here is a recent addition to the Harrold world for me. Was poking around at an estate sale, could just barely make out the arrow head in the logo, and thought "Stiletto, cool". Got it into better light, realized it was the Harrold H we had talked about recently in another thread (Wood screwdrivers), so I will keep it here.



ETA: forgot I had a better pic of the logo

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...it was the Harrold H we had talked about recently in another thread (Wood screwdrivers),

I was prompted...

Private Lugnutz made the connection between this screwdriver of mine and LesserSon's pliers with a similar logo.

...to talk about it here, too, going on a research tear upthread if you missed it...

Here's the original TM they apparently shortened later and a pretty good list of the tools they were making at that time.

 

[RTM]

talk about it here, too, going on a research tear upthread if you missed it...

But you didn't use the term "Arrow" for this thread, cuz lazy me searched for Harrold Arrow in the vintage forum, rather than do all the reading required to see your pic with the arrow. The downside of pasting images (, as you've convinced me to copy relevant image text to help the search engines), but you did in the wood screw driver thread.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...your pic with the arrow.

If you mean the trademark, "trademark" or "TM", for short, are the terms I usually use when describing TM's. I didn't call it an arrow in the other thread, either. While it's obviously also a double pointed arrow, it's the crossbars of the two letter H's in the original TM.

It's cool that you have a much more modern screwdriver with the same TM. Only the third or maybe fourth example on GJ.

 

[LesserSon]

A recurring question on this and the Too Many Pliers thread:
IS THIS (rounded triangle)

the same manufacturer as THESE (sharp trianges)?

 

[LesserSon]

The question has come up again in the context of slip-joint pliers, but long-nose pliers bear all these stamps, too. (well, not MY two pairs, but others do)


So if this is a Harrold,

then this is, too.

I think they are, but I don’t KNOW. I think we’re close.
We just need one example of these rounded-triangle stamp pliers to turn up with “Harrold” or an “H” on it, or to find a Harrold catalog with illustrations to KNOW.

 

[MisterEd]

. . . catalog with illustrations to KNOW.

Reads like a line from the GJ Vintage Lament.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I check the "pliers" drawer at that joint up in Sequim every trip.
I need to go back out to that thrift store in Puyallup again!

Reads like a line from the GJ Vintage Lament.

It can be a bit frustrating. Takes a lot of patience to unravel some of these mysteries.

 

[d42jeep]

Not much doubt about these I found on Friday.
After evaporust.
Handle pattern.
-Don

 

[MisterEd]

Takes a lot of patience to unravel some of these mysteries.

Yeah, can be like the human equivalent to a hairball?

 

[Mintgrun]

I'm no expert, but neither of the round-corner-triangle pliers look Harrold-made to me.

What about @Leviton 's pair marked Herbrand in the thread on this topic?

Herbrand make more sense to my feeble mind.

Pliers with "FORGED STEEL U.S.A." in depressed triangle

Anyone know who made these 6.5" overall length slip joint pliers? There are no marks other than "FORGED STEEL U.S.A." in the inverted, depressed triangle. The same thing is duplicated on the opposite side. (GalaxyRat also posted pliers with a similar logo in a recent thread: )...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[four.cycle]

^ that looks like almost dead-on match other than the "Herbrand" script logo.
I'm fairly sure the reason that pair of @LesserSon's has that gold tone is because I used a brass brush to clean them up.
That "FORGED STEEL USA" inside the triangle with the rounded corners looks quite familiar - and the business end looks remarkably similar.

 

[Mintgrun]

The forgings look identical to my eye.

Scrolling back up the page, I see that @What_dont_you_want shared the same Herbrand pliers link in this thread.

Leviton shared them in post #45 too.

Now, I am wondering if the <-H-> inside the sharp triangles might refer to Herbrand, instead of Harrold. Although, there are pointy-triangle Harrold marked pliers too (post #14), so the fact that they both start with H is probably coincidental.

I don't see a single pair of Herbrand pliers in this thread (or elsewhere) that are "deep forged" like the pair in question. Meaning, the round-corner-triangle pliers have thick jaws and all the Harrold pliers are thin, stamped-out, bent jaws.

I don't see any other rounded-edge Harrold pliers like the round-corner-triangle needle-nose pairs either.

It's unfortunate that this discussion is spread out in three threads, but here we are....

 

[four.cycle]

^ Well.... this is not the first time we've discussed this one, @Mintgrun. This hasn't taken nearly as long to figure out as it took me to figure out the Kal/ProAmerica/Cam-Ron connection!

 

[LesserSon]

The forgings look identical to my eye.

Scrolling back up the page, I see that @What_dont_you_want shared the same Herbrand pliers link in this thread.

Leviton shared them in post #45 too.

I am partially persuaded away from thinking the mystery pliers are Harrold. I agree the forgings of the round-cornered stamp pliers are all the same. The Herbrand script pliers should date from the 1920s, if AA has it right, so at least some of the non-Herbrand marked round-cornered stamp pliers are contemporaneous. But the example of Herbrand script slipjoints on AA does not look exactly like Leviton’s example - AA’s is somewhat heavier, though it has the same number of course teeth.

Now, I am wondering if the <-H-> inside the sharp triangles might refer to Herbrand, instead of Harrold. Although, there are pointy-triangle Harrold marked pliers too (post #14), so the fact that they both start with H is probably coincidental.

I won’t be persuaded that <-H-> or even a plain H is other than Harrold. Herbrand has an H-in-a-diamond on some forgings, but I don’t think a plain H.
Not only do they both start with H, but they’re both located in Ohio. Inconveniently coincidental.

I don't see a single pair of Herbrand pliers in this thread (or elsewhere) that are "deep forged" like the pair in question. Meaning, the round-corner-triangle pliers have thick jaws and all the Harrold pliers are thin, stamped-out, bent jaws.

True.

I don't see any other rounded-edge Harrold pliers like the round-corner-triangle needle-nose pairs either.

Right! But where are the Herbrand script needle nose, either?

It's unfortunate that this discussion is spread out in three threads, but here we are....

More legwork. I’m heading to the Herbrand thread to look for matching pliers.

 

[LesserSon]

Nada on the Vintage Herbrand thread, but these Harrold-grips longnose, incorrectly identified as Herbrand by the eBay seller, are interesting.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I won’t be persuaded that <-H-> or even a plain H is other than Harrold. Herbrand has an H-in-a-diamond on some forgings, but I don’t think a plain H.

While the <-H-> marking is not exactly the <-H.J.H-> marking that Harrold TM'ed (a point I have made only in academic interest about the abbreviated version being a riff on the original version that is also consistent with the company name change), I think it would still be a very difficult challenge for Herbrand to defend using it without an infringement claim by Harrold.

 

[Mintgrun]

I searched "side cutters" in this thread and found Mr. Ed's and LesserSon's examples, but these are a bit different, in that they're not marked Harrold, aside from the H in the grips (the grip pattern is also different than the other two) and they're flush cutters.


I'm posting the needle nose pliers again, for the sake of comparing the two triangles side by side; there's one with an H and another with a space for one, but it's blank.



Both pair shair similar grips, with the 'needle-nose' having a slightly coarser weave.



I have two of the mystery needle-nose pliers now, with two different rivet styles, posted together for the fun of it.
(Both styles have been posted previously, but I enjoy seeing them side by side).
((Ooh, look. One triangle has two pointy corners and one rounded one)).



The forged ridge left on the handle grips is an interesting detail.

 

[Leviton]

I just want to say how much I enjoy being part of a community that spends this much time, effort and brain power to figure out things like this! We are so weird, and so awesome!

 

[Eric Brown]

I have a curiosity. During my German plier research I came across this Will, Made in Western Germany pair. This would have been Harry Will, between 1945 and 1990. On the other side it has Harrold. This begs the question: Is this the same Harrold and maybe they imported these pliers, or perhaps a different Harrold?

 

[Mintgrun]

Based on the style, I'd be surprised if there is any connection to the old Harrold tools. I've never seen Harrold pliers with the thick jaw tips like that. They all seem to be stamped out of thinner metal.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This would have been Harry Will, between 1945 and 1990. On the other side it has Harrold.

Is "Harry" short for Harrold? Just kidding. See next comment.

maybe they imported these pliers,

There are multiple examples, and multiple types (slip joint, lineman's, etc), of pliers marked both "WILL / MADE IN GERMANY" and "HARROLD" on eBait.

Based on the style, I'd be surprised if there is any connection to the old Harrold tools.

Agreed. But remember that...

...Harrold got conglomoed by Budd in 1977.

In that era, under those kinds of economic circumstances, anything could happen. According to Gerald over at 'Progress is fine, but...' blogspot, Harry P. Will Werkzeugfabrik was making pliers for Canadian Tire Corp, Benchcraft and others. Doesn't seem too much of a stretch to think they were also making them for the last vestiges of the Harrold brand in the hands of Budd's Woodings-Verona Toolworks subsidiary.