Yes sir! I’ve had a few similar experiences with the same issue.
Anyone done a DIY wheel alignment?
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andyvh1959
Well-known member
so if you had a pair of three foot long levels with the laser light pointer in one end, would it work to clamp/strap each level to the side of the front tire at about the spindle centerline, with the level bubble centered. Use a tape measure to reference on the tire treads to find the "base" setting. Then project the laser lights forward to say the backside of the garage door, use trig to measure from the garage door to a plumb bob line from the spindle centerline to the floor. The laser spots on the door would also reference the camber base setting.
Would that work to fine tune the toe in/out. Could it also reference the camber setting if you had to adjust the camber up or down slightly?
I recall years ago I replaced the clutch on my girlfirends 1980 Chrysler Daytona Turbo, front wheel drive, (horrid little car to work on), being the nice dumb *** I was. Unheated garage, January in Wisconsin. Part of the process required taking out the suspension to get the unequal length half shafts out. In my haste to complete the job I just bolted everything back in place as it came together. Heh, couldn't drive the car over 35 mph, it was all over the place! Opps, wait, lets check the front strut mount bolts on the spindles. Sure enough, one of them on each side had a offset like a cam under the head. I looked at the factory wear marks where the bolts had come out, reset everything to match what it was originally, test drive and dead steady to 80+ mph.
Would that work to fine tune the toe in/out. Could it also reference the camber setting if you had to adjust the camber up or down slightly?
I recall years ago I replaced the clutch on my girlfirends 1980 Chrysler Daytona Turbo, front wheel drive, (horrid little car to work on), being the nice dumb *** I was. Unheated garage, January in Wisconsin. Part of the process required taking out the suspension to get the unequal length half shafts out. In my haste to complete the job I just bolted everything back in place as it came together. Heh, couldn't drive the car over 35 mph, it was all over the place! Opps, wait, lets check the front strut mount bolts on the spindles. Sure enough, one of them on each side had a offset like a cam under the head. I looked at the factory wear marks where the bolts had come out, reset everything to match what it was originally, test drive and dead steady to 80+ mph.
DGersic
Well-known member
I don’t like referencing off of the tire bulge. It’s probably fine, but I want to reference something solid. Make or get a spacer (x4) to reference your levels off of the wheel rim.
Your laser dots on the garage door don’t show camber. With some measuring and math, they can be used to show toe.
For camber, you can measure the angle directly. I bought one of those inexpensive bubble gauge camber tools, it mounts to the wheel hub. A digital angle finder would be nicer, but does the same job for more money.
If you’re going to do your own, here’s pretty much everything you need to know.
Precise Alignment with a Digital Level
Do you hate alignment shops like I do? They act like they are high priests of the dark arts or something, then in a conversation, it becomes clear that...
www.jalopyjournal.com
Doing my car was complicated somewhat by the shape of the car. It’s a wedge, with no straight line structure to reference, and the front track is narrower than the rear. I set up the strings as a box, referenced off of the wheel hub surface, hubcaps removed. This would be a bit easier to do if (like the referenced article) your car has the same track front and rear and some nice straight parallel rockers or frame rails to reference.
andyvh1959
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. I should have said caster and not camber. But your post clarifies it all.
A comment. I generally bring my cars into shops for wheel alignments since they have tools that make it much easier rather than rig up a lot of reference measures to save ~$100. But I am starting to get annoyed and may start doing it myself. My issues:
1) Tire shops became insistent that front wheel camber is not adjustable on a 2014 Subaru Forester. The tell them it has elliptical bolts from the manufacturer (I have taken apart the front end enough to know ... they are also anti sized and move freely: I can see them change the angles when I move them, and always mark the orientation to to put back in position when doing work) so they could not do it without a ridiculously expensive extra step (couple hundred $ to put in two elliptical bolts!). I am not sure if their databases are bad, or if they are lying to generate easy money. But I *really* became PO'd when they insisted that I was wrong and if the car had them that I added them. Kind of a WTF level of obstinance or stupidity. They think I am incompetent or senile?
2) Tire shops where I live now refuse to do any alignment work needing shims. They regard anything that take more than a quick wrench twist taking a minute as too hard or not worth their time. So you have to hunt for a mechanic willing to work with shims who also has the relevant measurement jigs etc (not a given).
I realize tire shops mostly hire kids with light training. But yikes, the level of incompetence and insisting that things are as they say when they are clearly not that I experienced in central Michigan was stunning. Even more disturbing, is I took the car in 1) to a 2nd shop and they went through the same initial claims. That one believed me and did the job after I said it had elliptical bolts for camber adjustments already. But it took some discussion to think I was not making things up. It was a little insulting and irritated me.
1) Tire shops became insistent that front wheel camber is not adjustable on a 2014 Subaru Forester. The tell them it has elliptical bolts from the manufacturer (I have taken apart the front end enough to know ... they are also anti sized and move freely: I can see them change the angles when I move them, and always mark the orientation to to put back in position when doing work) so they could not do it without a ridiculously expensive extra step (couple hundred $ to put in two elliptical bolts!). I am not sure if their databases are bad, or if they are lying to generate easy money. But I *really* became PO'd when they insisted that I was wrong and if the car had them that I added them. Kind of a WTF level of obstinance or stupidity. They think I am incompetent or senile?
2) Tire shops where I live now refuse to do any alignment work needing shims. They regard anything that take more than a quick wrench twist taking a minute as too hard or not worth their time. So you have to hunt for a mechanic willing to work with shims who also has the relevant measurement jigs etc (not a given).
I realize tire shops mostly hire kids with light training. But yikes, the level of incompetence and insisting that things are as they say when they are clearly not that I experienced in central Michigan was stunning. Even more disturbing, is I took the car in 1) to a 2nd shop and they went through the same initial claims. That one believed me and did the job after I said it had elliptical bolts for camber adjustments already. But it took some discussion to think I was not making things up. It was a little insulting and irritated me.
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This is why I started doing it myself, constant issues with kids at shops doing it.
I may be following in your footsteps on self-alignments. I can no longer send my wife with the car even for very simple stuff like alignments and tires since she does not know much about mechanical stuff and they keep making crazy claims generating confusion for her.
My favorite example of this is a few times worse than the alignment thing I described above. I had tires replaced a few years back and the tire shop desk person told my wife she needed to tow the car to a shop *since it had antiseize on the lugs and it was dangerous to drive*. I am not joking here. She gave me a concerned call, and I had to explain it was OK. I later had a heated discussion with the tire shop manager and later followed up with him more by bringing in an engineering analysis of thread lube impact on torque measures (ticked me off enough where I found data). This absurdity was in the rust belt where when unlubricated threads quickly corrode. When that happens, torques will get all out of wack (both high and low) without lube and it *can become dangerous*. They act like a 10% change of trouque due to anti-seize on something with a big margin for error (relative torque consistency is more important) makes it ready to snap and kill the driver. The manager implied that the the advise was a "requirement" for them to give due to corporate lawyers ... but yikes, yikes, yikes. We cannot be THAT dumb in the usa over legal misrepresentations. Or can we?
This is how simple tasks end up sucking many hours and why I end up doing 99% of my family needs on my own.
On a small positive note, I noticed no such oddities on anti-seize claims in a later tire purchase a year plus later. So maybe they came to their senses there at least. I do not want to have to buy a tire machine and do my own mountings and balancing for occasional car tire replacements. But I was worried it would come to that.
Modern life in the USA ... Warn for doing right and advise to do wrong -- all out of legal drama. What is doubly annoying is they convince people this **** is true. Here it is better, but I also noticed people with torque wrench fixations thinking a 4% torque calibration error on lug nuts is imporant ...
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Wrench97
Well-known member
Yes we are thank the lawyers that chase accident cases looking for deep pockets to make money.
Question" Did you do as outlined in the service manual"
Answer "Not really there was anti-seize all over the studs and nuts"
In a shop environment the answer is to clean the anti-seize off and torque to spec.
In reality the kid in the tire shop stuck the wheel back on and ran them down with the ugga dugga gun and you hope your one of the lucky ones that didn't at least one cross threaded one........
Yeah, you would *think* that even IF they regarded light anti-seize as such a problem they could bother to wipe it off without need for a tow truck to some alternative shop for remediation. But I guess that is not in the training manual and might take an extra 30 seconds per wheel. Heaven forbid that might damage profits.
I would argue you torque lug nuts to spec (maybe with a slight adjustment down IF you wanted to be extra precise) WITH the anti-seize and be glad for it. But that is just me as a PhD engineer/scientist ... I am sure the lawyers have a good theory why the anti-seize is so dangerous with the ~10% higher torque driving large diameter studs past their elastic limit. It is but another idiotic contrived lawsuit potential to extract dollars. I sometimes wonder how we function with such dumb inefficiencies in our economic system ...
Another funny tire shop story. I recently helped one grad student of mine with a brake job. When taking the wheels off for that (what can go wrong when you offer to help ...) I swear some idiot must have put on his rear wheels hammering with a large air impact. My battery impact was not up to removal (maybe 200-300 ft-lbs break off torque) and I had to use a large & long 3/4 drive breaker bar and nearly picked up the vehicle to break the lug nuts loose for removal. In this case I was amazed that the tire shop did not break his wheel studs (at least ~300 ft-lbs). That really might have been a bit dangerous for him in terms of potential for the wheel coming off. BUT whatever tire shop did it without anti-seize. So I guess all was good in the eyes of lawyer land !
I guess meth addicts need to gain revenue somewhere in their non-bender hours! So maybe tire shops and oil change places serve a purpose.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Years ago the fleet I worked for had issues with 8 lug dual wheels coming off drive axles on semi tractors the issue was actually traced back to the wheels being over tightened(torque was 500ftlb) and stretching the studs to the point of fatigue which then failed later in use.
I've been on the witness stand explaining the proper procedure and how we ensured it was followed by both our inhouse shops and outside vendors, I use to tell them I'm not the engineer, I didn't design the procedure I just follow it and help to ensue others do too.
However I will say I find it strange we did not have the same issues with the 10 bolt Budd system that used the same size studs but smaller O.D. nuts .....
75gmck25
Well-known member
On the topic of "mechanics" who don't believe the owner.
I had my 1975 GMC inspected in Texas by a local shop and the guy immediately said "it won't pass because you don't have catalytic converters". I explained that it was a 1975 HD emissions truck (8400 lb GVW), and in 1975 GM did not use catalytic converters on this model/GVW. He continued to maintain that I must have converters installed to pass inspection, but finally let me take the truck and leave. As I was leaving, the clerk at the counter pulled me aside and told me to go down the street to another shop, and they would know the proper inspection criteria. It passed without any issues.
The tell-tale sign of true BS was when this guy started telling me that there was a brand new DMV ruling I didn't know about, and even vehicles that never had catalytic converters were how required to have them installed. He said it applied to all vehicles, regardless of the age. Apparently he completely made this up, but somehow in his mind it was gospel.
I had my 1975 GMC inspected in Texas by a local shop and the guy immediately said "it won't pass because you don't have catalytic converters". I explained that it was a 1975 HD emissions truck (8400 lb GVW), and in 1975 GM did not use catalytic converters on this model/GVW. He continued to maintain that I must have converters installed to pass inspection, but finally let me take the truck and leave. As I was leaving, the clerk at the counter pulled me aside and told me to go down the street to another shop, and they would know the proper inspection criteria. It passed without any issues.
The tell-tale sign of true BS was when this guy started telling me that there was a brand new DMV ruling I didn't know about, and even vehicles that never had catalytic converters were how required to have them installed. He said it applied to all vehicles, regardless of the age. Apparently he completely made this up, but somehow in his mind it was gospel.
rancherbill
Well-known member
I thought about getting this system, but I got lazy and I didn't want an Apple phone.
https://gyraline.com/products/the-case
https://gyraline.com/products/the-case
mllester
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I’d admire everybody who is doing their own alignments. After replacing front end parts, I crudely try and line them up good enough to make it to a shop.
I have been thinking about though. The prices they are getting for alignments is crazy……
I have been thinking about though. The prices they are getting for alignments is crazy……
firebirdparts
Well-known member
Better than nothing. The sidewall was never intended to be perfect, and you also aren't seeing the runout. You can spin the tire and just look at it and figure out whether you are concerned about that. it may be pretty close
Mike65
Well-known member
I will have to get my 69 Mustang aligned next year once I get it running. I had replaced every part in the f/e since they were all over 50 years old & was converting it from power to manual steering. I will have to check at classic car shows to see where they have their old cars done. I know of a couple guys on the Vintage Mustang web site that have done their own alignment's using the Longacre caster/camber gauges.
andyvh1959
Well-known member
When I have my 56 Dodge pickup built onto my 2001 Dakota donor chassis (which also means splicing the frame to get the WB right) I'll do an initial alignment on my own in my shop. Once it is road ready I'll go to a an alignments specific shop to have it done professionally. Because aside from splicing the frame I will also be setting up the four bar coilover rear suspension. That may require an adjustment of the rear axle to poperly align it to the frame and front spindles centerlines.
Pretty certain I can get the rear axle perpendicular to the frame rails, and aligned so the chassis doesn't dog track. Should only require a bunch of measurements to get the solid rear axle where it needs to be. Once the rear axle is set square to the frame, and if the frame is not racked it should be fairly easy to get the front end set up properly. I'm using the entire Dakota chassis from the rear axle forward, and splice the original 56 frame to the Dakota frame to maintain the box mounts and everything rear of the cab.
Pretty certain I can get the rear axle perpendicular to the frame rails, and aligned so the chassis doesn't dog track. Should only require a bunch of measurements to get the solid rear axle where it needs to be. Once the rear axle is set square to the frame, and if the frame is not racked it should be fairly easy to get the front end set up properly. I'm using the entire Dakota chassis from the rear axle forward, and splice the original 56 frame to the Dakota frame to maintain the box mounts and everything rear of the cab.
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Byrdnyrd
Well-known member
OP,
Are those BBS wheels on that car?? Any car that runs on BBS deserves a proper alignment!!
It looks like a Miata, but the mirrors look different……what is it?
Cheers,
BN
Are those BBS wheels on that car?? Any car that runs on BBS deserves a proper alignment!!
It looks like a Miata, but the mirrors look different……what is it?
Cheers,
BN
djbmw
Well-known member
If you drive with big mud tires and dont go over 55 mph... you can do a string alignment and be "fine".
If you drive faster than that and have tires you care about, either buy the equipment to do it yourself at your home shop (under $1k, used), or take it somewhere.
If you drive faster than that and have tires you care about, either buy the equipment to do it yourself at your home shop (under $1k, used), or take it somewhere.
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racecougar
Well-known member
I just had a similar dealing with the Missouri DMV itself when renewing my license plate for this thing.
In MO, vehicles titled "Special Construction" are emissions exempt. You would think that the DMV counterperson and DMV manager would either know the state rules, or be willing to agree to them when shown said rules on both their own website and the GVIP (emissions inspection) website. That was not the case. It took a call to DOR headquarters at the state capitol to get them to fork over the tags. But hey, now I know to refer the counterperson to MO DOR-private document number MVII-22 next time. Specifically, halfway down the second page of said document.
bwringer
Well-known member
Following suspension work, I've gotten alignment "close enough" to get to the alignment shop many times with basically improvsed methods and tools. Tape, string, long straight things, etc.
Once (and only the once) the car drove perfectly, I was busy, and, well, I never got around to it. It was kind of a beloved heap of a project car, everything done on the cheap, so I just kept driving it. No odd wear or anything.
Another time, it was definitely off a little, but we had to use the car for a few hundred miles that weekend before I could get it into the alignment shop. No odd tire wear, and the tires were getting replaced soon anyway. It was just annoying to keep pressure on the wheel for 250 miles.
An important ingredient in all this is to find a good alignment shop. The teenage stoners at the tire shops sure love to sell alignments and play with their alignment machines, but they can't seem to pay attention long enough to actually complete a good alignment.
I found a place nearby that caters to the high-end car and tuner crowd. The main alignment guy there is incredibly knowledgable and does fantastic work. He's a total alignment nerd, and will happily find solutions to get a car dead nuts, not just "within tolerance", and driving right no matter what. (If you're in central Indiana, it's Northwest Frame & Alignment in Zionsville https://northwestframe.com/ ) Like all good shops they're very busy, so it might take a week or two to get an appointment. Their prices are quite reasonable for the quality of the work you get.
Once (and only the once) the car drove perfectly, I was busy, and, well, I never got around to it. It was kind of a beloved heap of a project car, everything done on the cheap, so I just kept driving it. No odd wear or anything.
Another time, it was definitely off a little, but we had to use the car for a few hundred miles that weekend before I could get it into the alignment shop. No odd tire wear, and the tires were getting replaced soon anyway. It was just annoying to keep pressure on the wheel for 250 miles.
An important ingredient in all this is to find a good alignment shop. The teenage stoners at the tire shops sure love to sell alignments and play with their alignment machines, but they can't seem to pay attention long enough to actually complete a good alignment.
I found a place nearby that caters to the high-end car and tuner crowd. The main alignment guy there is incredibly knowledgable and does fantastic work. He's a total alignment nerd, and will happily find solutions to get a car dead nuts, not just "within tolerance", and driving right no matter what. (If you're in central Indiana, it's Northwest Frame & Alignment in Zionsville https://northwestframe.com/ ) Like all good shops they're very busy, so it might take a week or two to get an appointment. Their prices are quite reasonable for the quality of the work you get.
djbmw
Well-known member
Tire wear is only part of the outcome and, in my opinion, only accounts for 25% of the total outcome of a proper alignment. The remaining 75% is proper handling (to the point where a misaligned vehicle becomes dangerous to drive and unpredictable when it goes over a bump at speed, drives on uneven highway, or hits a puddle at 60 mph).
For anyone that owns a fleet of vehicles OR constantly does suspension work (races, drives over tough terrain and continually bends tie-rods or something),... buy some used gear. Optical (3CCD) alignment machines are plentiful on the used market and can be bought for under $1k. Pair that with a few slip plates from Amazon and you're in a much better position than some string and a measuring tape - especially if your vehicles are highway driven.
I would encourage anyone who really enjoys working on and learning about their vehicle to perform an alignment using strings and a bubble gauge. It's not difficult, though you need some patience. My experience is with classic cars where you're only aligning the front end. I started at the bottom of the learning curve on an MG, which has kingpins and only allows toe adjustment.
With a bubble gauge and strings, you'll tie up less than $150. And you don't need slip plates; you can use a garbage bag under each wheel. Drive the car after alignment, and take it to a pro if you're not satisfied or you want someone to check your work.
I align my cars on a four-post lift, which makes the process much easier.
With a bubble gauge and strings, you'll tie up less than $150. And you don't need slip plates; you can use a garbage bag under each wheel. Drive the car after alignment, and take it to a pro if you're not satisfied or you want someone to check your work.
I align my cars on a four-post lift, which makes the process much easier.
Lorydr
Well-known member
I watch some of the car shows on tv in the mornings. For all the custom or ****** builds they do, I've not seen footage of any alignment action. I reckon it's all behind the scenes, even if the right tools are not in that shop. Probably hi-end custom shops have a proper machine for alignments.
About the only alignment I've done was on my old shovelhead, to get the rear sprocket aligned to the drive belt. Success there!
About the only alignment I've done was on my old shovelhead, to get the rear sprocket aligned to the drive belt. Success there!
You've said that three times in the thread, so I have to ask: where are you finding alignment machines for $1,000? A quick look around here shows more like 10x that, but I am willing to be educated. Reminds me of the guys in the Tool forum who never buy new tools because you can find a complete NOS set of limited-edition Snap-On wrenches for $20 at any garage sale easier than walking into Harbor Freight.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Usually the ones that cheap have failed/failing PC's that you have to hack the software on to get another one to work.
racecougar
Well-known member
That's all I've ever found around here (St. Louis area) at that price point. I've been watching Marketplace for ~5 years for a reasonably priced alignment setup that works as is.
Bearded_Dragon
Well-known member
I've been using this kit for a while: https://wheelalignmenttools.com/product/4-wheel-alignment-system/ however their support is pretty low. I've emailed them a few times to get a .pdf version of their instructions and never heard back.
It takes forever to setup the string part but it seems I can get a good alignment; my tires either age out or wear out from running negative camber.
It takes forever to setup the string part but it seems I can get a good alignment; my tires either age out or wear out from running negative camber.
djbmw
Well-known member
Ive owned three machines in the last 20 years. All have been found on the used market (Kijiji, Facebook Marketplace, and my friend also bought one from a government auction site),... and all of mine have been from Toronto, Canada... funny enough.
My current machine came from a "Oil Changers" franchise that was upgrading to a camera system.
The camera systems are expensive ... which is why i suggest the 3CCD systems instead.
For example, here's one for $600 CAD ($430 USD) (though it says it doesnt come with the computer... but i assume he has the software on CD): https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...alignment-machine-with-accessories/1723175111
Even still,.. if you want to spend a bit more then you CAN get "3D aligner" for $1400 USD: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...-w723-mobile-3d-alignement-machine/1726290928
There's a bunch more in the area that are in the same price range ($600 to $2,000 CAD). And remember, those are asking prices - very few people are in the market for used alignment machines up here... so negotiate your price
Ps... there's also lots of auction sites that occasionally have alignment machines up for sale. Pricing seems to be all over the place depending on the state.
This Hawk Eye system sold for $1500 https://www.westauction.com/auction/3330/item/hunter-hawkeye-elite-r611-alignment-machine-443487/
And this 3ccd Hunter for $850.. https://www.k-bid.com/auction/45840/item/18?offset=18
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OX1
Well-known member
Maybe I'm, just stupid, but I never understood, how things like rear camber/toe (or especially thrust angle) are adjusted on the fly with the "string" method. Due to rear alignment plates to allow IRS to settle out when putting weight back on rear tires, it is very easy to shift entire rear of car left/right, trying to tighten loosen rear camber shim bolts/nuts.
On 4 post, I can jack the entire package way up (and still be level at all 4 wheels) and use two long breaker bars, working against each other to loosen and tighten "aggressively". Since most rear camber shims (eccentrics) rely on friction only to stay in place, you want them real tight.
So I am able to get them very tight without shifting rear of car left/right. If/when you shift rear of car, it messes with thrust angle and front toe. Don't see how that works with the string method, but that doesn't mean it can't be done I guess.
The big win for string method is it's way cheaper that even an older alignment system and you don't have to rely on some incompetent shop to not do it correctly (whatever settings you need/wanted).
OX1
Well-known member
Ive owned three machines in the last 20 years. All have been found on the used market (Kijiji, Facebook Marketplace, and my friend also bought one from a government auction site),... and all of mine have been from Toronto, Canada... funny enough.
My current machine came from a "Oil Changers" franchise that was upgrading to a camera system.
The camera systems are expensive ... which is why i suggest the 3CCD systems instead.
For example, here's one for $600 CAD ($430 USD) (though it says it doesnt come with the computer... but i assume he has the software on CD): https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...alignment-machine-with-accessories/1723175111
Even still,.. if you want to spend a bit more then you CAN get "3D aligner" for $1400 USD: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...-w723-mobile-3d-alignement-machine/1726290928
There's a bunch more in the area that are in the same price range ($600 to $2,000 CAD). And remember, those are asking prices - very few people are in the market for used alignment machines up here... so negotiate your price
Ps... there's also lots of auction sites that occasionally have alignment machines up for sale. Pricing seems to be all over the place depending on the state.
This Hawk Eye system sold for $1500 https://www.westauction.com/auction/3330/item/hunter-hawkeye-elite-r611-alignment-machine-443487/
And this 3ccd Hunter for $850.. https://www.k-bid.com/auction/45840/item/18?offset=18
I agree on a used alignment system. I buy Hunter stuff. I bit more money, but at least there is a rep available to calibrate the equipment, since most local shops use Hunter stuff.
I had a camber sensor going in one of my rear heads. Had my "hunter" guy come out and do fix and calibration. He was able to use alignment system computer to find fault of camber sensor (and he has fixture to calibrate heads, which used systems don't come with). Not sure how you get other brands fixed and cal'd.
djbmw
Well-known member
Love it! Those look like DSP 200 heads?I agree on a used alignment system. I buy Hunter stuff. I bit more money, but at least there is a rep available to calibrate the equipment, since most local shops use Hunter stuff.
I had a camber sensor going in one of my rear heads. Had my "hunter" guy come out and do fix and calibration. He was able to use alignment system computer to find fault of camber sensor (and he has fixture to calibrate heads, which used systems don't come with). Not sure how you get other brands fixed and cal'd.
My last machine was a hunter P611 with dsp string heads. Lucky for me the machine came with the guide book for calibration and included a printout of the exact dimensions for the jig. I then had my friend model it in CAD and we had the parts cut with a water jet.
Ps, yours look very clean! There's a thread on GJ that i was part of where we were all sharing the software online - there's several versions that everyone uploaded. Of course, the older hunter machines used proprietary interface cards (and older computers) ... but mine was still going strong when I sold it and im sure yours is doing just as well, given its cleanliness!
djbmw
Well-known member
PS, if also recall fixing one of my DSP200 heads on my previous machine...
I forget what was wrong with it at the time... but these arent too bad to work on if you know electronics.
Old machine in the back (Hunter P211 with DSP200 heads, cira 1995 but with updated data to 2003), newer one in the front ("KJC 3000 Bluetooth CCD Wheel Aligner" - Branded for "TreadPlus". It's a Chinese clone of the Ranger CRT380) :
I forget what was wrong with it at the time... but these arent too bad to work on if you know electronics.
Old machine in the back (Hunter P211 with DSP200 heads, cira 1995 but with updated data to 2003), newer one in the front ("KJC 3000 Bluetooth CCD Wheel Aligner" - Branded for "TreadPlus". It's a Chinese clone of the Ranger CRT380) :
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duneslider
Well-known member
My 2007 jeep wrangler has 250k miles and has never seen an alignment shop. I have replaced everything on the front end and been fine doing my own alignment with a tape measure. I guess it helps that the only thing you can adjust is the the Toe...
I guess I did add adjustable upper arms, so I can adjust the caster but I have that adjusted for the driveshaft and not for driving comfort so that sort of doesn't count.
I do have mud tires but I drive over 55 but it doesn't like going much faster than 78 but I don't think that has anything to do with the alignment and more to do with the anemic v6 and brick-like aerodynamics.
I wouldn't do a home alignment on my wife's expedition though. The shop we take it to for tires says they do a quick alignment check when you buy new tires, they always give me a sheet that says alignment is good and no change from last time. 80k miles and the alignment is good, we do a fair bit of dirt road driving and trailer towing too so its not like its just a highway car.
I would be interested in alignment equipment for under 1k, I hate going to shops. One trip in for tires on the jeep resulted in 5 cross threaded lugs, stopped going to that place.
I guess I did add adjustable upper arms, so I can adjust the caster but I have that adjusted for the driveshaft and not for driving comfort so that sort of doesn't count.
I do have mud tires but I drive over 55 but it doesn't like going much faster than 78 but I don't think that has anything to do with the alignment and more to do with the anemic v6 and brick-like aerodynamics.
I wouldn't do a home alignment on my wife's expedition though. The shop we take it to for tires says they do a quick alignment check when you buy new tires, they always give me a sheet that says alignment is good and no change from last time. 80k miles and the alignment is good, we do a fair bit of dirt road driving and trailer towing too so its not like its just a highway car.
I would be interested in alignment equipment for under 1k, I hate going to shops. One trip in for tires on the jeep resulted in 5 cross threaded lugs, stopped going to that place.
Their new setup has built in sensors and works on any phone.
The strings are the toe/thrust measurement device, not camber/caster. Your question seems to be about lifts. If the car is on a 4-post lift, obviously adjustments are easier than on the ground. This is the same for strings, toe plates, a $1000 used system from Canada, or a $25,000 computer alignment system.
The practical answer is that if you have to jack the car up to make adjustments, you restring it afterward. With my setup this takes about 30 seconds a side, so one minute total.
For mine, I use slip plates under all four wheels and can make many of the adjustments on the ground.
I just had my 2010 Suburban aligned due to tire wear. I had got the vehicle after the po had a chain store replace the struts and other suspension parts along with an alignment. It drove ok but eventually started chewing up the drivers side front tire.
I took it to a one man shop that specializes in alignment. He doesnt do any repairs, only alignments. He inspects the vehicle for worn parts and if he finds stuff he lets you know what needs repaired before it can be aligned. After that, its how the tires look and how it drives. There is a pretty large "range" in most of the specs but he dials things in to address the problems. When he checked it with the machine at first the "boxes" where green but the specs where to the far range and kinda opposite of each other side to side.
It was worth the $120 to have someone who knows how to interpret the information and make adjustments to correct the problems. He has a big following as he's the "guy" to go to if you have something lifted or lowered. Also he does sports cars and specialized vehicles as well.
I took it to a one man shop that specializes in alignment. He doesnt do any repairs, only alignments. He inspects the vehicle for worn parts and if he finds stuff he lets you know what needs repaired before it can be aligned. After that, its how the tires look and how it drives. There is a pretty large "range" in most of the specs but he dials things in to address the problems. When he checked it with the machine at first the "boxes" where green but the specs where to the far range and kinda opposite of each other side to side.
It was worth the $120 to have someone who knows how to interpret the information and make adjustments to correct the problems. He has a big following as he's the "guy" to go to if you have something lifted or lowered. Also he does sports cars and specialized vehicles as well.
G-Body
Member
I have switched back again to doing all my own alignments at this point. When I switched from an 85 El Camino to my current CTS-V that required a 4 wheel alignment I started taking it in for alignments thinking it was too hard for me to do a 4 wheel alignment. The first time I took the car for a drive it would slightly pull at 40mph, 70mph you knew it was pulling and above that it was terrible. I immediately went back to the shop and they adjusted it again. It was better but I still felt it wasn`t right. Well after replacing some suspension parts I took it in again. Still didn`t feel like it should. Then I saw that it was wearing the rear tires significantly more on the inside edge. I went back and they told me that they could not adjust the camber as they didn`t have the special tool. After calling probably 20+ alignment shops in the chicago area and having them tell me the same thing I finally found on that said they could do it (They used a tie down to pull the camber adjustment in). They did the next alignment and again it was ok, but still did not wear the tires evenly. Finally I got pissed off, found an excel spreadsheet online that someone designed so you could do camber, caster and toe with laser levels and did it myself. I still use a digital angle finder to measure caster and camber, but I use the spreadsheet to get toe as with it the laser or string does not need to be parallel to the centerline of the car. It annoys me that I cannot get perfect repeatable results, I seem to be within 0.3 degrees, but the car feels better and has less tire wear then when I was paying to have it aligned.
I feel that realistically I`m probably only able to get within 0.5 degree of the actual measurement, but that seems to be closer then any of the shops that I have taken the car to.
I feel that realistically I`m probably only able to get within 0.5 degree of the actual measurement, but that seems to be closer then any of the shops that I have taken the car to.
djbmw
Well-known member
Its clear that there are three groups of people in this post:
1. Those that take it to a shop and have it done by someone.
2. Those that DIY with string to get it "aimed straight-ish" .
3. Those that DIY with pro gear.
So I suppose the answer to OP's post is... "Yes" lol.
1. Those that take it to a shop and have it done by someone.
2. Those that DIY with string to get it "aimed straight-ish"
.3. Those that DIY with pro gear.
So I suppose the answer to OP's post is... "Yes" lol.
Bearded_Dragon
Well-known member
Holy cow, I really need to look into this! Thank you for posting. One thing about DIY alignments is I find myself trying different adjustments on all my vehicles.Ive owned three machines in the last 20 years. All have been found on the used market (Kijiji, Facebook Marketplace, and my friend also bought one from a government auction site),... and all of mine have been from Toronto, Canada... funny enough.
My current machine came from a "Oil Changers" franchise that was upgrading to a camera system.
The camera systems are expensive ... which is why i suggest the 3CCD systems instead.
For example, here's one for $600 CAD ($430 USD) (though it says it doesnt come with the computer... but i assume he has the software on CD): https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...alignment-machine-with-accessories/1723175111
Even still,.. if you want to spend a bit more then you CAN get "3D aligner" for $1400 USD: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-ot...-w723-mobile-3d-alignement-machine/1726290928
There's a bunch more in the area that are in the same price range ($600 to $2,000 CAD). And remember, those are asking prices - very few people are in the market for used alignment machines up here... so negotiate your price
Ps... there's also lots of auction sites that occasionally have alignment machines up for sale. Pricing seems to be all over the place depending on the state.
This Hawk Eye system sold for $1500 https://www.westauction.com/auction/3330/item/hunter-hawkeye-elite-r611-alignment-machine-443487/
And this 3ccd Hunter for $850.. https://www.k-bid.com/auction/45840/item/18?offset=18
djbmw
Well-known member
That's exactly what you need to do! And... alignments should be specific to YOU, and not purely based on factory specs. One of the easiest examples I can provide is if you frequently drive with adult passengers, or cargo in the trunk. Ideally, you should pre-load the vehicle with ballast weight when aligning it (i use water softener salt bags - 160 lbs in each seat). If you're a larger guy, you should pre-load the seat accordingly.
The same is true if you're constantly loaded with gear in the back (maybe you have 800lbs of subwoofers in the trunk ;-)).
Additionally, you should choose your handling characteristic that YOU want. For example, do you want more toe-in to help with dead straight tracking, or neutral to be snappy when you touch the wheel? Do you live in an area where you're constantly speeding through twisty and windy turns? Add some negative camber.
More worried about tire longevity while you drive like Miss Daisy? Set it all as neutral as possible.
With your own equipment you have the flexibility to do just that,... test,.. and change it again if you dont like it.