Apex USA Sockets, any Difference?

[RAS61]

Is there any difference between Armstrong, KD, Allen, etc, or are they all the same with different names?

 

[Jake40]

Armstrong doesn’t exist anymore

 

[Fedwrench]

The chrome sockets are pretty much the same across all of the lines for when they were made. The Armstrong even had that funky double detent retention cut out on the female square drive as Craftsman sockets had.

 

[RAS61]

Armstrong doesn’t exist anymore

Yes, but there's still NOS and of course used

 

[Jaysreal]

No, All these brands are dead but between the USA sockets there should be no difference, I don't know if Allen stuff was outsourced before they were killed but they should all be the same as far as sockets go.

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[plinker]

Functionally no difference, just different markings.

Before Apex (timeline gets blurry) , Danaher had made sockets for Napa and Craftsman & Masterforce in addition to Armstrong, Allen & KD.

There may be some Allen stuff outsourced, I dont remember sockets though. Just pliers, wrenches, screwdrivers, ete..

 

[decableguy2000]

My 3/4" set is a mix of Napa, craftsman, Allen, and Masterforce. I can't tell any difference in them. Bought them all new as close outs. The newer Craftsman metrics 3/4's I have laser etching and look like Armstrongs.

 

[bonneyman]

I have some APEX magnetic sockets that are freaking awesome.
Can't tell/don't know if they're newer or older stock.

Always snag APEX stuff when I come across it in the wild.

 

[kjbenner]

The chrome sockets are pretty much the same across all of the lines for when they were made. The Armstrong even had that funky double detent retention cut out on the female square drive as Craftsman sockets had.

The double detents are the only difference I can think of. I have Craftsman, Craftsman Industrial, and USA NAPA with the double detents, none of my KD have it. Don't think I have any Armstrong sockets to compare. I don't know if this is a difference in line, or if it's because they're different ages.

 

[ike]

people used to claim that the Armstrong products had better chrome. the sockets, ratchets, and extensions that i've had from various APEX brands made in USA all look the exact same to me. i guess people don't claim there is/was a difference as much anymore?

i think people in the past assumed there had to be a difference to justify the different prices, but in the end, maybe people realized that the bloodsuckers at Bain Capital would charge 3x the price for the same product as long as people were willing to pay it. Whenever i bought Armstrong, i knew i was paying top dollar prices for the same as Craftsman USA quality.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I recently bought KD chrome sockets having a single detent; along with Armstrong chrome sockets that have the same double detent as Craftsman.

 

[plinker]

people used to claim that the Armstrong products had better chrome. the sockets, ratchets, and extensions that i've had from various APEX brands made in USA all look the exact same to me. i guess people don't claim there is/was a difference as much anymore?

It is/was certainly nicer looking chrome. They likely spent more time on it at the factory.


Whether they had single or double detents probably depended on production runs, later ones being all double detent . IIRC, for a while Craftsman was the only one to have it.

 

[65k10]

The double detents are the only difference I can think of. I have Craftsman, Craftsman Industrial, and USA NAPA with the double detents, none of my KD have it. Don't think I have any Armstrong sockets to compare. I don't know if this is a difference in line, or if it's because they're different ages.

I'm thinking it might be an age thing. I have a KD marked 15/16 socket with double detents.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Craftsman, CM Industrial, Kobalt, K-D, Armstrong, Allen, NAPA, Masterforce are the same sockets, just a different stamp.

I have quite the mix of them all thanks to Cripe and Hand Tools for Less!

 

[Badasssapper67]

Apex isnt around any more??? Who bought them?

 

[stonesfan68]

Apex is still around, but they are owned by Bain Capital.

 

[cheechi]

Before Apex (timeline gets blurry) , Danaher had made sockets for Napa and Craftsman & Masterforce in addition to Armstrong, Allen & KD.

And Kobalt I think.

 

[Mr Ratchet]

I have fairly current Armstrong and Craftsman sockets that I got to fill out my Hansen trays. I can't see any difference chrome wise and even posted some pictures here on the topic.

Armstrong had sizes available that Craftsman did not.

 

[dscheidt]

Apex is still around, but they are owned by Bain Capital.

And they make stuff in China and Taiwan, not the US.

 

[plinker]

And Kobalt I think.

I forgot about that.


It gets hard to track who makes what when it changes ever other year (or so it seems).

 

[mikebaker1129]

No, All these brands are dead but between the USA sockets there should be no difference, I don't know if Allen stuff was outsourced before they were killed but they should all be the same as far as sockets go.

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Yes you are correct, some Allen stuff was off shored before the end. You can still purchase some Asian made Allen at Cripe.

 

[decableguy2000]

Yes you are correct, some Allen stuff was off shored before the end. You can still purchase some Asian made Allen at Cripe.

I know the Allen ratcheting wrenches I have are just Gearwrench brands. Still lots of Allen Branded USA stuff out there. My socket set on the work truck is all Allen USA.

 

[kythri]

Apex is still around, but they are owned by Bain Capital.

Of course they are. Bain created Apex.

 

[Jaysreal]

Of course they are. Bain created Apex.

You have to elaborate more. I thought the general consensus was that the Apex tool Group was created under Danaher then sold to Bain Capitol. Were they not known as Apex while under Danaher? Was Bain responsible for the formation of the group?

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[shanny19]

I thought Kobalt was Williams-produced USA, then Asian. Are you guys saying there was a period of Apex USA Kobalt production?? Approx when??

 

[kythri]

You have to elaborate more. I thought the general consensus was that the Apex tool Group was created under Danaher then sold to Bain Capitol. Were they not known as Apex while under Danaher? Was Bain responsible for the formation of the group?

Danaher and Cooper merged to form Apex and ultimately to sell the merged entity to Bain.

My understanding from reading various Internets articles about it back when it was in process was that Bain was interested in the combined entity, which drove that merger.

 

[Jaysreal]

Danaher and Cooper merged to form Apex and ultimately to sell the merged entity to Bain.

My understanding from reading various Internets articles about it back when it was in process was that Bain was interested in the combined entity, which drove that merger.

Ah, I see[emoji106]

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[Jaysreal]

I thought Kobalt was Williams-produced USA, then Asian. Are you guys saying there was a period of Apex USA Kobalt production?? Approx when??

Yes, it was Williams USA 1998-2003, then Armstrong USA, then Asian. I have Kobalt impact sockets from both USA era's. Armstrong made Kobalt is easier to find but Williams made is more sought after.

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[kythri]

Well, Danaher at least. While I'm aware that there's some overlap (i.e. sockets), I would class the Danaher-produced Kobalt ratchets as the same quality as the Danaher-produced Craftsman of the time. Certainly, they're not Armstrong ratchets.

Maintenance kits between Craftsman and Kobalt of that era interchange, if you don't mind the different looking selector levers.

 

[mikebaker1129]

Apex was a division of Danaher, prior to the merger with Cooper that became Apex tool group.
The Apex division of Danaher was based out of Dayton, Ohio and made bits,bit sockets, impact drivers ,impact sockets which were sold mostly to automotive assembly lines,aircraft,military and industrial customers. They were and still are very well made and very expensive. Apex is still around and sold by Zoro and a few other industrial suppliers.

 

[Odes]

Does anybody have a picture of the double detent

 

[Mr Ratchet]

I thought Kobalt was Williams-produced USA, then Asian. Are you guys saying there was a period of Apex USA Kobalt production?? Approx when??

Danaher made their tools I'm guessing around 2008 to around 2013. I have Kolbalt 1/4" and 3/8" drive pass through sets that I bought around 2010. It's the same style as the Gearwrench Vortex and interchanges sockets and extensions with them.

 

[Mr Ratchet]

Does anybody have a picture of the double detent

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258519 See post #20.

 

[four.cycle]

does anybody have a picture of the double detent

==

* per Lauver's list:
G continued = Danaher, ca. 1990 - 1999
G1 = Danaher, ca. 2000 - 2004
G2 = Danaher, ca. 2004 - 2008
G2D = Danaher, ca. 2008 - 2011

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=867.0

 

[Odes]

Makes sense now I couldn't picture it I don't think I have any sockets with that style