Are air tools obsolete?

[Citation]

Yea and electricity is free right? In a large usage setting there is a huge difference in power consumption between running a 5hp compressor a couple time a day and 15hp rotary screw to keep up with air tool usage in a busy garage / dealership.

Im not making this **** up guys. I work as an air compressor salesman and you know how significantly smaller compressors are getting for dealerships? At a quarter a kw, I would rather NOT run my air compressor.

At the end of the day if you're not changing with technology your dinosaur tools will no longer be available anyways.

If people still prefer the tools they will still be around. Hammers are rather old but they don't seem to be going away.

Again, the comment about per consumption is correct but to what end? As a DIYer the extra power needed to run my compressor vs a corded impact wrench is perhaps 6x... and insignificant to me. Perhaps I would make up the difference in 45 years. In the case of an auto shop where mechanics provide their own tools they have no incentive to care about power consumption. In a factory you would certainly be correct as the company decided the tools and pays the overhead.

 

[Mr_B]

bsaint will retire long before compressors, sure a lot more electrical tools can cover some roles but not everything in current working practise ...

 

[sberry]

In a home shop it won't make much difference, in a welding shop the constant use of common grinder could add up to significant power over time.

 

[hangfirew8]

Superior power transfer efficiency doesn't get the job done. People using tools that work, gets the job done.

You can cry into your beer all you want about electricity, as long as tires need air, people will be using compressors and air tools to get automotive work done.

 

[larry_g]

its about power efficiency not the tool. (considering an anvil hits the working end on both tools)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JSNCU84/?tag=atomicindus08-20

60 joules of energy per blow at 1800 bpm. 60 seconds / 1800 blows is 30 hits per second at 60 joules or 1800 joules/sec. 3600 joules per second is 1 kw. 1800 kw is 0.5kw. Input power is 13 amps @ 120v is 1350w or 1.3kw. Efficiency of this electric hammer is 38.46%.

Is that better? It doesn't matter what you're comparing they ALL run on some sort of transfer for energy and since air power works on the potential difference in pressure from your source to the atmosphere and there is so much heat involved to increase the potential difference between atmosphere and an upper level, they are naturally the LEAST efficient. Unless you work in outer space.

Well you've dropped your example from 85% to 38.46% eff. This is for an AC powered machine. Now show your DC battery powered hammer. My point is one compare apples to apples and two show us a battery powered hammer. If your going to make these claims compare like tools, drill, impact wrench, whatever but compare the two tools that do the same job at the same power levels. I do know that air is expensive and not the most efficient at all tasks. How ever there are areas that it works the best for reasons other than efficiency, and areas outside the auto repair field. It used to drive me nuts when some engineer would design in an air driven vacuum generator when we had house vacuum available.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[plinker]

I have yet to see a batter powered (air) hammer/needle scaler or an air powered portable bandsaw.

 

[danielbuck]

the debate will never end. You can come up with cases for either side, but who cares. Use what you like to use. It's like automatic transmission V/S stick, they both work well, but they both have pluses and minuses. Use which ever you prefer, and what works best for you.

In the warm months I drive a 73 year old vehicle, I'm QUITE sure technology has surpassed it (alot has been upgraded on it, but it's still quite old), but it works well and I enjoy driving it. I've put more miles on it than most people put on new vehicles. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Air tools aren't anywhere near that far behind, and I won't be trading them out completely either.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

The production of air tools ceased over thirty years ago; as there was no interest in anyone purchasing these products. Check out Amazon and eBay; all that will be found are old relics.

 

[MattT]

Yea and electricity is free right? In a large usage setting there is a huge difference in power consumption between running a 5hp compressor a couple time a day and 15hp rotary screw to keep up with air tool usage in a busy garage / dealership.

Im not making this **** up guys. I work as an air compressor salesman and you know how significantly smaller compressors are getting for dealerships? At a quarter a kw, I would rather NOT run my air compressor.

A busy dealership is probably billing at least $500 an hour. The 15 hp compressor is using $3 an hour in electricity at a quarter a kwh. Switching to bulkier electric tools will save a couple bucks an hour and kill productivity which will loose way more than that.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

A busy dealership is probably billing at least $500 an hour. The 15 hp compressor is using $3 an hour in electricity at a quarter a kwh. Switching to bulkier electric tools will save a couple bucks an hour and kill productivity which will loose way more than that.

you forgot the 50cfm cycling dryer and dual lines for dry and lubricated gear.

just gonna throw this out there - I've seen this firsthand and when people finally realize that air leak they've spent $30k on over the past few years was money they'll never get back, they're pissed.

american loco linked my thread - i'm honored

that said, I'm leaning towards a mix of tools. I have tools that unequivocally require air, like my plasma cutter, blow gun, tire filler, etc. I don't think i'll be hunting down an air powered circular saw any time soon, my milwaukee fuel 9AH M18 tool is more than I can handle, even when ripping apart my 2x4 deck.

air tools have the advantage of being simple (typically vane motors), and simple to modulate. beyond that, It seems to me that barring special conditions (momentary torque/power, need for non-electric equipment, air operated, can't get it with xyz feature, or "i've had it since great grandpa handed it down"), it really comes down to a per tool decision.

 

[Mikeske]

Try building a aircraft without the steady supply of compress air. Almost all drilling is done by compress air. Installing rivets, Hi-locks, Huck bolts are all done using various air hammers, air powered rivet guns and such. It has been done this way since prior to WW II and still to this day. Battery powered tools are making in roads installing the interior components but still if you are on the flight line you cannot use a battery powered tool on a aircraft unless it is explosion proof and by the time you get the battery tool it is already done by dragging a airline out to the plane and installing it with a air powered tool.

 

[CR888]

Try building a aircraft without the steady supply of compress air. Almost all drilling is done by compress air. Installing rivets, Hi-locks, Huck bolts are all done using various air hammers, air powered rivet guns and such. It has been done this way since prior to WW II and still to this day. Battery powered tools are making in roads installing the interior components but still if you are on the flight line you cannot use a battery powered tool on a aircraft unless it is explosion proof and by the time you get the battery tool it is already done by dragging a airline out to the plane and installing it with a air powered tool.

Sssshhh!......didn't you read the post above that states air tools have become non existent as EBay & Amazon don't sell them and only offer old relics. Real aircraft techs are using Chinese Milwaukee M-18 air hammers, drills and tools. You need to ditch that old relic of a compressor (won't be able to give it away as it to outdated) and check out the latest Chinese made Ryobi plus one range. They have over a hundred tools. To be the best you need the best tools so check out Ryobi & Milwaukee today!!

 

[Alfisti]

The biggest problem with battery tools is their size, way too big!! When they cam make a battery drill the same size as my air drill I might consider them. I use my Aircraft Tool Supply 45 & 90 degree drills all the time, can't ever imagine a situation where a battery drill would even fit. Think it's going to be a long time before I ever consider buying one.

 

[KillNThrill24]

I like both battery and air tools.

My small 3/8 Milwaukee impact is great for smaller jobs. Zips bolts off quickly, and can get them back down to be torqued quickly.

But for bigger impact gun, my 1/2" Milwaukee is a brick. And I have noticed a serious lack of performance over the years of use and abuse. It probably needs replaced, but the bigger brother to it is just that... Bigger. I'll probably get a nicer IR or Air Cat when I finish my compressor situation.

As far as my 3/4" stuff... I haven't seen a battery powered impact in that size yet. That will probably remain an air only type of deal.

Air sanders are more capable in my personal experience (tho that is limited).

Air ratchets and battery ratchets are both great. Downside to my M12 Milwaukee ratchet is that when I have the larger battery on it, I have clearance issues in tighter quarters. Downside to my IR air ratchet is it slings lube everywhere lol. Tho, it may need replaced soon too. I got it from my dad and he got it used from work.

Air die grinders are a man's best friend. Can't see them being good in a battery form if the day comes that they figure out a way to make one work in battery form, but we shall see.

Benefit to battery over air.... NO HOSES. That's really my only issue with air tools... The hose - as silly as that sounds. However on a performance level I much prefer my air tools.

I'm more of a mechanical side of things type of guy. I rarely spray anything, rarely do sanding, etc. But I would like to try my hand at it more some day. So I don't have a lot of experience on the heavy air demand tools, but there are things that you just can't see working well in battery form. I can't ever see a time in which air tools are obsolete. But then again, I never thought I'd see the fall of the V8 engine either. Time will tell. Until then, I'll keep blasting my air tools whenever I can.

Sent from my Note 9 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[ChrisLS8]

There are definitely 3/4 inch battery impacts. Milwaukee now has a 1" gun now that really chooch's

 

[CR888]

How come race team pit crews still use old clumsy air impacts to to tyre changes? They should be using the latest high output M-18 fuel impacts, no air leads to trip over, they should come here & read this thread on GJ to get up to date on what's best...

 

[KillNThrill24]

There are definitely 3/4 inch battery impacts. Milwaukee now has a 1" gun now that really chooch's

Really? That's news to me. I can't imagine it would last long tho without a very large battery. But nonetheless, that's pretty cool.

Sent from my Note 9 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[f121]

Yup. Makita do a 3/4" impact too https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CA04O54/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[michelin]

Bottom line after reading this thread. Professionals use air tools and swear by them. DIYers and 9-5 auto techs prefer batteries. The discussion is bordering trolling as two groups are too dissimilar. Me I use air tools a lot but my buddy at work always pulls his cordless guns at first opportunity. We never argue about the technology as he is an apprentice/part timer and knows his place lol.

 

[ChrisLS8]

How come race team pit crews still use old clumsy air impacts to to tyre changes? They should be using the latest high output M-18 fuel impacts, no air leads to trip over, they should come here & read this thread on GJ to get up to date on what's best...

Well they don't use typical guns or even air. They spin at 15k and run on Nitrogen

 

[Citation]

For race teams I suspect battery tools could be a safety issue. Fuel spills are common in racing. A battery and hot electric motor seem more likely to ignite spilled fuel vs a cold air tool.

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

For race teams I suspect battery tools could be a safety issue. Fuel spills are common in racing. A battery and hot electric motor seem more likely to ignite spilled fuel vs a cold air tool.

In my experience it comes down to race rules, partnerships, weight and durability. Often a series will have a partnership, often with Paoli for instance or Ingersoll-Rand (NASCAR). And many of these impacts are small size impacts with 1" drive to run specialized "18-28 tooth" wheel sockets that need to be bolted through the anvil. Not exaclty something you can go out and purchase as a cordless tool.

They are also often made out of carbon fiber or carbon fiber + Ti or 7075 to shave weight but also handle the impact of being thrown around quite literally every pit stop.

Cordless impacts do exist in racing (usually 20-24V examples) and can be found for example in Formula 3. But they are heavier and bigger (not traits you usually find in timed racing events), have to be charged and are not as field serviceable (important when racing is actually a whole weekend of test, qualifying and race day which can include north of 50 full pace pit services and practices).

For these reasons, no one seems to be in a hurry to make a push towards cordless tools in the pits just yet.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

For race teams I suspect battery tools could be a safety issue. Fuel spills are common in racing. A battery and hot electric motor seem more likely to ignite spilled fuel vs a cold air tool.

i'd be far more concerned with sparks from a brushed motor than a "hot" piece of metal or a battery that's not on fire. unless your air tool has overmolding or is made of low carbon stuff, the metal housing & sockets could be just as likely to create sparks.

 

[Citation]

i'd be far more concerned with sparks from a brushed motor than a "hot" piece of metal or a battery that's not on fire. unless your air tool has overmolding or is made of low carbon stuff, the metal housing & sockets could be just as likely to create sparks.

Motor brushes, assuming they wouldn't use brushless would be another concern. I'm sure that anyway you could think that an air tool might start a fire would apply to electric as well plus the issues outlined above. Per an earlier comment it sounds like this is often a series vs team based choice and it also sounds like the performance vs weight still keeps air the better choice in this case.

 

[f121]

Cordless impacts do exist in racing (usually 20-24V examples) and can be found for example in Formula 3. But they are heavier and bigger (not traits you usually find in timed racing events), have to be charged and are not as field serviceable (important when racing is actually a whole weekend of test, qualifying and race day which can include north of 50 full pace pit services and practices).

For these reasons, no one seems to be in a hurry to make a push towards cordless tools in the pits just yet.

We use cordless all the time in rallying, mix of Ingersoll Rand and Makita high and mid torque in the service truck and management/chase cars, 3/8 stubby gun in the rally car. Beats firing up the generator for the compressor in service!

Bottom line after reading this thread. Professionals use air tools and swear by them. DIYers and 9-5 auto techs prefer batteries. The discussion is bordering trolling as two groups are too dissimilar.

I would say that the split is between service/repair and restoration/fabrication. It's been a useful thread because it's reminded me that I need a decent air supply for die grinder, needle gun and blow gun when I move my shop home this year.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

We use cordless all the time in rallying, mix of Ingersoll Rand and Makita high and mid torque in the service truck and management/chase cars, 3/8 stubby gun in the rally car. Beats firing up the generator for the compressor in service!

true. I don't see many (any?) people running compressed air tools at Sno*Drift...

 

[mpsmith60]

I have to agree with you. Pneumatics are here to stay. Not likely to have battery powered substitutes any time soon.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

Pneumatics will continue to be the best for mechanics and shop environments. For a homeowner or DIYer buying tools, battery or corded tools are definitely the way to go.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

For race teams I suspect battery tools could be a safety issue. Fuel spills are common in racing. A battery and hot electric motor seem more likely to ignite spilled fuel vs a cold air tool.

People really worry way too much about accidentally causing explosions from stray sparks.

To create a proper explosion from fuel vapors requires a pretty specific air to fuel mixture which you're not likely to get in an open air environment.

Second, you're worried about tiny sparking in electric tools but not worried about the race car? You know. The thing that literally runs off igniting the fuel and often sending flames and sparks shooting out the exhaust... Especially at idle or a sudden and large change in throttle, like what you'd get when they're pulling into or out of the pit stop. Or how about the race car scraping on the pavement? They're all so low that they pretty much all scrape from time to time. Race cars are giving off showers of sparks constantly.

I work at an industrial facility and the intrinsic safety stuff is quite silly at times. Cellphones and tablets have to be intrinsically safe... But feel free to drive there in your truck and then work there with your big power tools. Or power on your welder generator and weld away.

 

[Cgw1984]

No, industrial air tools are not obsolete.

Screw off spammer

 

[bsaint]

My dad who is still in the compressor business has been saying for years air demand in car dealers is down. Car dealers are buying smaller capacity when buying new. If ten techs dont touch a 4 cfm tool all day that adds up.


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[03.]

People really worry way too much about accidentally causing explosions from stray sparks.

To create a proper explosion from fuel vapors requires a pretty specific air to fuel mixture which you're not likely to get in an open air environment.

Second, you're worried about tiny sparking in electric tools but not worried about the race car? You know. The thing that literally runs off igniting the fuel and often sending flames and sparks shooting out the exhaust... Especially at idle or a sudden and large change in throttle, like what you'd get when they're pulling into or out of the pit stop. Or how about the race car scraping on the pavement? They're all so low that they pretty much all scrape from time to time. Race cars are giving off showers of sparks constantly.

I work at an industrial facility and the intrinsic safety stuff is quite silly at times. Cellphones and tablets have to be intrinsically safe... But feel free to drive there in your truck and then work there with your big power tools. Or power on your welder generator and weld away.

Was watching a NASCAR race at Charlotte, probably 10 years or more ago now,
Can't remember Who the driver was, possibly harvick, finished pit stop, dropped the hammer, spun tyres over a lug nut sparked up and ignited the fuel on the ground that was spilt even with a catchcan. Nobody hurt.

 

[richfinn]

Even the best cordless Li-On tyre inflators take almost 5-10 minutes to fully inflate an SUV tyre from flat

Most need a cool down after 5 minutes

Ok in an emergency situation

Nice to have an air blow nozzle for cleaning stuff

Working near gasoline with a brushed cordless tool might not be a great idea also!!!

Those high torque cordless impacts (whilst good) are big heavy units at the side of a decent air equivalent

I think you need a mixture of air/cordless, I dont think we are quite there yet with a cord/hose free world

 

[Rinspeed]

Just my opinion, and I'm sure many will disagree, but battery tools **** compared pneumatic tools. I'm still using the same IR die grinder that I bought ten years ago. I've thrown out a couple battery operated tools since then. Battery tools are handy though.

 

[ROBZ71LM7]

Die grinders, painting, and blasting are still air dominant for my needs. The compactness helps with the die grinders.

 

[m6z]

Paint and metal work still require air tools.

So, it really depends on what you are doing.

 

[johninct]

Yesterday I had to **** some dirt specs out of a gas can. Air vac worked great.

 

[redmondjp]

Yesterday I had to **** some dirt specs out of a gas can. Air vac worked great.

[6 months later, while shopping online] "No way, Ryobi has an 18V cordless air vac now?" [gets credit card out]

I cleaned off my neighbor's cedar shake roof for three hours yesterday. I just replaced the ridge caps, using an air stapler powered by a Craigslist $35 Husky oilless air compressor. Noisy as heck, but none of my other compressors were small enough to plug into a standard household circuit. I knew that I would blow that compressor up if I dared try to run it constantly to blow the roof off (heck, it would run 10-15 minutes for its normal on-off cycle).

So I resurrected a hibernating gas-powered 5HP Ingersoll-Rand wheelbarrow compressor that I've had in the back yard for almost 20 years. With fresh gas and oil in both motor and pump, that compressor ran continuously for three hours while I blew the roof off with an extended-tip blow gun (getting all of the tree debris out from the gaps between the shakes). I rarely use this compressor, but for situations such as this, there just isn't any substitute.

 

[anndel]

Customer's are shocked to see me use a cordless removing suspension parts or even an engine on their vehicles. I tell them cordless has come a long way but will not replace air pneumatic tools anytime soon. I use both all the time, if I feel like moving the portable workbench and chopsaw cart to get to the air hose in my small tiny shop.

 

[tncumminsguy]

I still use certain air tools but after buying Milwaukee M18 and M12 stuff i've been using that more