Are CAT sockets still Snap On/Williams?

[finn]

I want no part of this conversation except to say: Try to think of factories more like restaurants.

1) there are a bunch of PEOPLE behind the scenes doing “stuff”. If it was as simple as feeding steel into one end, and collecting tools from the other, there wouldn’t be 300 people at the Snap on plant in Milwaukee.

2) like food, tools have recipes, and they get made in batches. Each batch will have its own unique parameters- machines must be programmed, timers set, etc.

It’s very easy for a factory, like a restaurant, to make different products at different quality levels. Even fully automated manufacturing facilities have “recipes”.

There very likely isnt a 3/8” drive 9/16” line and a 1/4” drive 3/8” line. We know there are multiple lines and each one makes a range of different products on them. That’s what the PEOPLE do. There is no manufacturing line that makes you a set of metric deeps. That’s why sometimes you can buy snap on and get a Williams socket mixed in. But that isn’t evidence they are identical.

My guess is, for most plants where I’ve worked, manufacturing costs = materials + time. Materials could be identical, but an hour faster through the tumble media polish, quicker through heat treat, use of older machinery, less time in plating, is how the plant could make 2 different product lines at different price points. Time is usually where the cost is.

Hope this helps

Retail cost isn’t always directly related to material, labor, or manufacturing cost, either. The retail cost includes things like what competitors are charging and cost / price / demand elasticity.

Your example is probably well illustrated by companies like SBD, or Apex tool, where they have Multiple brands in house and als produce for competitors under private labels. SnapOn does the same with Williams (and Cat). They may or may not be functional equivalents, but it is stretching it to say one label is junk or even demonstrably inferior. Detail differences but not junk.

Much of the SnapOn price premium is due to the inefficient distribution network. Someone has to pay for all those drivers and trucks Servicing their customers. Cat doesn’t have to burry that overhead in their selling transaction costs. Their “salesmen” are dealing with the core business, equipment parts and service. Tool sales are more of a convenience to their customers and a branding excersize.

 

[highland512]

I got a set of 1/4" socket a few weeks ago and SO is still making the CAT sockets as of 2025 according to the date code.

I have a family member who works for CAT. According to him the Snap On/CAT relationship was/is coming to an end, he wasn't sure who would be the new OEM for CAT. He also said there was a lot of stock of SO made CAT hand tools in the system and would take years for the stock to run out.

I think I will order a few more sets of sockets. If you have the right connections, you can get them cheaper than ICON sockets sets.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Explain the logistics of remanufacturing a set of sockets.

Hey Finn, I see you live in the UP. My wife hates driving through Chicago so I suggested she go through the UP And she's done it ever since then. Whatever she wants to travel from Ohio to the upper part of Minnesota.

I off the cuff answer is it's two process such as

Collect Sockets to recycle
Magic occurs

I'm sure your question was tongue-in-cheek, but, even collect sockets to recycle can be a multi-step process done with customer returns and other collection items.

Triage and categorization to make a determination on what they should just simply be totally recycled can be tricky in and of itself. My experience my my views like new off Amazon tells me Amazon is awful at it.

If it's just sockets, things are much easier from here because then you must just need to claim them. If you have ratchets you may want to take them apart and clean them.

And somewhere there you need to repackage and figure out how to get it back into the supply chain.

Of course, if you're harbor freight it means you just slap a discount sticker on whatever's returning and throw it on to a shell somewhere in the store.

I'm sending a 1/4 drive 1/4 inch semi-deep snap-on socket back to snap-on because it is the wrong dimensions internally. I'm sure the other just kind of take a peek and see if they can understand what they did wrong and then they'll just recycle it.

 

[CoThG]

That key section is on each page in the parts store to explain what the icons mean in the listings. You'll also see it at the bottom of category listings, search results, etc. Here's an example of a remanufactured and non-returnable part:



And here's the socket set with no icons:



There's another pricing example too - that's the 1/4 6-point 4-15mm set. $70 vs $252 for Snap-on's 5-15. Pricing seems to vary by dealer, for me it's about 1/3 of SO but others have reported it being even less.

My Cat dealer has an MSRP for that set of $66.38 I purchased that set on a Black Friday sale for $39.83

 

[Hakeem]

I’m editing to ad that the biggest thing SO trucks offer is not so much tools at your shop as easy credit. Go fill a tool box with any tool discussed and it isn’t cheap. If Cat pays in full per purchase, that’s a value in itself.

Good post. I always thought that tool truck sales would plummet if you had to drive to a store and pay in full at the point of sale. Being able to take a break from work and walk off the truck with a new toy without spending any cash at that time is irresistible for many.

I’m still skeptical that the sockets are the same. It just defies logic to think that SO is gonna sell the same stuff for a fraction of the price, even if it is to capture more market share. In my experience, if something is too good to be true, it usually isn’t true or there’s a catch somehow.

Also I think you’re right that this is some legacy marketing practice and that if it gets too popular, SO will put the kibosh on it soon.

 

[JeepYJ]

if something is too good to be true, it usually isn’t true or there’s a catch somehow.

There is a catch, or two or three- the tools are labeled “CAT” not Snap-On, they aren’t delivered to your work place in a CAT tools truck, no one (for the most part) knows or cares that S-O made those tools, you’re not getting a CAT hat or pair of CAT socks for buying a socket set.

 

[Caa311]

There is a catch, or two or three- the tools are labeled “CAT” not Snap-On, they aren’t delivered to your work place in a CAT tools truck, no one (for the most part) knows or cares that S-O made those tools, you’re not getting a CAT hat or pair of CAT socks for buying a socket set.

I don't need a hat or socks! I'm buying tools, don't need my **s kissed because I'm paying 6 times what I can get a set of ko-ken's for. I like the cat sockets and might buy some stuff next time I go to get antifreeze there.

 

[Jwallace1]

i work for a Cat dealer, the hand tools for the most part are Snap-on or Williams, I'm sure there is some items that are not, if you look through the catalog on certain tools like the digital torque wrenches it says right in the listing to contact [email protected] for warranty, its great for me because i get tools at cost so it makes it very affordable or the dealer technicians to buy high quality tools for a pretty cheap price, we sell a 3 piece pilers set and the combination pliers in the set i bought has the S stamped in them so they are for sure Snap-on, but you just only get them in yellow handles since they are Cat branded, same with the screwdrivers they are the old style hard handle screw drivers that i don't think Snap-on sells anymore but you can still get them in a Cat set, for the dealer techs it works great because if something breaks they can just go to the parts counter for warranty, we have a depot in town so it makes for an easy swap and you usually have the tool the next day and you're not waiting for the tool truck to show up next week. as for swapping from Snap-on to a different vendor i highly doubt it unless Snap-on cut off the relationship for some reason, they also make a lot of engine specific tooling like the 12pt head bolt sockets so switching an entire line of tools to someone else would not make sense at this point. if it was a price thing they would just raise the price. i cant imagine hand tools are not a big profit center for cat so they wouldn't go thorough the hassle of swapping vendors and Snap-on/William's has such a comprehensive line of tools its easy to just use one vendor.

 

[mreisner]

Explain the logistics of remanufacturing a set of sockets.

More like Cat outsourced it's web development and somebody that has no clue is just working from a script or rough out when they were given and just messed it up. Kind of like they wouldn't put a computer geek in the shop overhauling bulldozers...

 

[Vinny]

Where do you buy CAT tools from? I was looking at them on ebay and they look to cost just as much as Snap On does.

 

[mdrawde]

Where do you buy CAT tools from? I was looking at them on ebay and they look to cost just as much as Snap On does.

From your local CAT dealer, you can order online on parts.cat.com. I just have a cash account with the local dealer.

 

[Vinny]

From your local CAT dealer, you can order online on parts.cat.com. I just have a cash account with the local dealer.

Just connecting this is the same CAT that makes large construction vehicles! I have a dealer nearby I'll go check with.

 

[JerseyBoatBuilder]

Please post pictures of williams sockets or wrenches with snap-on date codes...

USA Made Williams SuperCombo Wrenches with Snap On date codes which is what is rebranded for Caterpillar.



There is already a current as of October 8 page CAT Tools thread in this very forum with plenty of comparison pictures that could have settled many of the debates in this thread.

 

[CoThG]

Good post. I always thought that tool truck sales would plummet if you had to drive to a store and pay in full at the point of sale. Being able to take a break from work and walk off the truck with a new toy without spending any cash at that time is irresistible for many.

I’m still skeptical that the sockets are the same. It just defies logic to think that SO is gonna sell the same stuff for a fraction of the price, even if it is to capture more market share. In my experience, if something is too good to be true, it usually isn’t true or there’s a catch somehow.

Also I think you’re right that this is some legacy marketing practice and that if it gets too popular, SO will put the kibosh on it soon.

I'm not. It just goes to show how much margin Snap-On has in their pricing. The Cat pricing reflects the true value of the sockets.

 

[CoThG]

USA Made Williams SuperCombo Wrenches with Snap On date codes which is what is rebranded for Caterpillar.



There is already a current as of October 8 page CAT Tools thread in this very forum with plenty of comparison pictures that could have settled many of the debates in this thread.ree

Agreed. This thread is redundant. It's well known that the Cat sockets are rebranded genuine Snap-On and most of their wrenches are Williams, with a few exceptions.

I have their complete 1/4" and 3/8" socket sets. They are Snap-On with a Cat rollmark. I also have the complete set of screwdrivers that are Williams, as well as the Cat ratcheting screwdriver. I have the Cat three piece pliers set. They are Snap-On with the grips dipped in Cat yellow.

 

[JeepYJ]

I'm not. It just goes to show how much margin Snap-On has in their pricing. The Cat pricing reflects the true value of the sockets.

S-O offers a 50% discount for student pricing. And you know they’re not giving them away at even 50% off. A lot of money is spent on brand recognition and their distribution channels. Hammering a chunk of steel into a socket isn’t some revolutionary manufacturing process.

 

[CoThG]

S-O offers a 50% discount for student pricing. And you know they’re not giving them away at even 50% off. A lot of money is spent on brand recognition and their distribution channels. Hammering a chunk of steel into a socket isn’t some revolutionary manufacturing process.

I've read numerous articles from Snap-On insiders claiming that their retail pricing reflects what they charge the US Government and therefore, they have to keep retail prices similar to avoid government scrutiny. If true, it goes to show how badly Snap-On is fleecing the taxpayer.

 

[Hakeem]

S-O offers a 50% discount for student pricing. And you know they’re not giving them away at even 50% off. A lot of money is spent on brand recognition and their distribution channels. Hammering a chunk of steel into a socket isn’t some revolutionary manufacturing process.

Certainly not, but manufacturing to a specific tolerance and proper heat treatment doesn’t come cheap, either.

I’ve had more than one SO driver tell me that the student discount is less than they pay wholesale. I don’t think SO sells their SEP stuff at a loss but I think it’s at a smaller margin than the rest of their stuff. Students are largely broke and don’t qualify for financing so I don’t think a high volume of SEP tools get sold.

I think what @AEAdam is saying, that they are manufactured to a somewhat lower standard, makes the most sense but at the end of the day we can all believe what we want. Until some SO higher ups start blabbing or we see some comprehensive comparative testing, there’s no way to know for sure.

 

[Hakeem]

I've read numerous articles from Snap-On insiders claiming that their retail pricing reflects what they charge the US Government and therefore, they have to keep retail prices similar to avoid government scrutiny. If true, it goes to show how badly Snap-On is fleecing the taxpayer.

Care to link any of these articles?

 

[JeepYJ]

I’ve had more than one SO driver tell me that the student discount is less than they pay wholesale.

I wouldn’t think the drivers are making the big money from S-O tools. Like most businesses it’s the corporate office making the money.

I don’t think SO sells their SEP stuff at a loss but I think it’s at a smaller margin than the rest of their stuff.

Of course it’s at a lower margin if it’s the same tools sold for less. That’s just math.

I think what @AEAdam is saying, that they are manufactured to a somewhat lower standard, makes the most sense

Is it less expensive and/or easier to make something not quite as good or just churn a bunch of the same things out and label them differently with different price points?

 

[Hakeem]

Of course it’s at a lower margin if it’s the same tools sold for less. That’s just math.

Whoops yeah that was dumb

Is it less expensive and/or easier to make something not quite as good or just churn a bunch of the same things out and label them differently with different price points?

Depends on the manufacturing processes and volumes involved, of course. Let’s say the forging dies are good for 10,000 SO sockets before they wear out and no longer meet the tolerances required. Maybe at that point they continue to use the worn forgin dies for 5,000 CAT sockets. The sockets are still good but not as good as the SO sockets.

Same thing with the heat treatment. Maybe the CAT sockets undergo heat treatment in larger batches or aren’t held at temperature for as long, resulting in a less-consistent product. It’s not hard to imagine ways that the manufacturing process could skip some steps and cut some corners to produce a slightly less quality product. At the volumes SO manufactures, even small cost savings could be significant.

At the end of the day, none of us know for sure, so we are free to believe what we want.

 

[JeepYJ]

At the volumes SO manufactures, even small cost savings could be significant.

It seems doubtful that some simple changes in the process would result in a product that costs 10x to 20x more to produce.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Is snap on student pricing for any student.... Like my daughter in college to be a parametric?

She might buy a few things, but I don't expect them (snap-on) to offer that. And as a student not flush with cash.

 

[AEAdam]

It seems doubtful that some simple changes in the process would result in a product that costs 10x to 20x more to produce.

Its funny how much misinformation there is regarding Williams.

1) A set of Williams USA 1/4” drive metric sockets are around $60. Comparable Snap on sets are around $180. Icon are $35 or so. Koken are around $60.

2) If you all believed Williams were actually Snap on, just marketed and distributed differently and sold for 3X less, you’d be the dumbest people on the planet for buying anything else.

Not putting Williams down. I think they should be everyone’s first choice for reasonably priced USA made tools.

 

[AEAdam]

Is snap on student pricing for any student.... Like my daughter in college to be a parametric?

She might buy a few things, but I don't expect them (snap-on) to offer that. And as a student not finish with cash.

No. Automotive or trade school students. And I don’t think taking one automotive class in your community college qualifies you. Pretty sure you need to be seeking some sort of certification.

 

[Hakeem]

It seems doubtful that some simple changes in the process would result in a product that costs 10x to 20x more to produce.

Where on earth do you get 10-20x more? A set of CAT 1/4” shallows is ~$70, a similar set from Snapon is ~$250. SEP pricing for that set of sockets, which doesn’t include “truck service” and is likely closer to the true cost of production, is $131. Less than double the price.

It is completely within the realm of possibility that some “simple”—albeit costly—manufacturing changes could double the cost of production. Not hard to believe at all.

 

[AEAdam]

Where on earth do you get 10-20x more? A set of CAT 1/4” shallows is ~$70, a similar set from Snapon is ~$250. SEP pricing for that set of sockets, which doesn’t include “truck service” and is likely closer to the true cost of production, is $131. Less than double the price.

It is completely within the realm of possibility that some “simple”—albeit costly—manufacturing changes could double the cost of production. Not hard to believe at all.

Little more perspective: socket sets include usually around what, 10 sockets? So are Icon $3/socket, USA Williams $6, and snap on roughly double that? $15/socket?

These are MSRPs, so figure production costs could be 25%. So production cost for a Williams socket could be $1.50 vs $4 for a snap on version. Do you think you could spend $2 extra on additional grinding, polishing, waiting longer for quench temps? Longer heat soaks? That doesn’t seem like a lot of money.

I often make the point for a set of sockets you could potentially use for the next 20yrs, does $40 (difference between Icon and US made Williams) really make a difference for you? You guys all make out like you are putting off surgeries and that socket sets are weekly expenses. Buy what you want and try not to sweat the details so much.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Ive watched a few videos and from what I saw they do indeed look like Snap-ons right down to the made in USA markings. I get the whole marginal revenue > marginal cost it makes sense to produce more product if there is excess capacity. What I can't seem to wrap my head around is why Snap-on would risk ******* off its core customers and dealers by selling the same product for a fraction of the price with different branding. Makes zero sense to me. I get the warranty is not the same and warranty is a huge benefit for Snap-on customers. I'd really like to see someone do a metal analysis to see if they truly are identical but for the branding. Ive also noticed the CAT products seem to have the Remanufactured and Non-returnable icons on these sockets (on its website) so wondering if it’s made with recycled steel or something. Quite puzzling to me anyway.

The answer is really simple. The internet fudged everything up. Snap-on was sold to mechanics and the government and maybe the informed DIY guys that could grab a truck at a stop. Williams was industrial users and CAT was CAT. No one ten years ago was cross-shopping these brands and no one was having ten thousand freaking page discussions on their similarities and origins. Now you have everything in all three company tool portfolios open to the public via their websites and tons of social media influencers and cheap bastards looking for a great deal combing through everything with a fine-toothed comb. Snap-on didn’t have to worry about it because it wasn’t an issue. Now it’s all the freaking tool world wants to talk about. I doubt Snappy cares cause it’s all money to them and most dealers don’t give **** because it’s not hurting their sales. The same thing is going on with everyone realizing SBD has the same wrenches and sockets across multiple brands.

 

[cgrutt]

The answer is really simple. The internet fudged everything up. Snap-on was sold to mechanics and the government and maybe the informed DIY guys that could grab a truck at a stop. Williams was industrial users and CAT was CAT. No one ten years ago was cross-shopping these brands and no one was having ten thousand freaking page discussions on their similarities and origins. Now you have everything in all three company tool portfolios open to the public via their websites and tons of social media influencers and cheap bastards looking for a great deal combing through everything with a fine-toothed comb. Snap-on didn’t have to worry about it because it wasn’t an issue. Now it’s all the freaking tool world wants to talk about. I doubt Snappy cares cause it’s all money to them and most dealers don’t give **** because it’s not hurting their sales. The same thing is going on with everyone realizing SBD has the same wrenches and sockets across multiple brands.

Perhaps but it still doesn't make any sense to me. There were always differences between Williams and SO, including (recently anyway) country of origin. The CAT and SO do appear identical though, aside from warranty and price. I keep thinking maybe its like the chip manufacturers they run a batch and test them those that test fastest get marked at X and sold at a premium those that test middle of the road get marked Y and sold as standard, those that test slowest get marked Z and sold at a discount and those that dont pass QC get thrown out. Plenty of examples of this fuel injectors are another example. Maybe its same situation with CAT and SO IDK. Anyway I'm out. When all is said and done I'm happy most of my sockets say Snap on on the side. I would prefer CAT USA over an ICON set that I have LOL.

 

[CoThG]

Where on earth do you get 10-20x more? A set of CAT 1/4” shallows is ~$70, a similar set from Snapon is ~$250. SEP pricing for that set of sockets, which doesn’t include “truck service” and is likely closer to the true cost of production, is $131. Less than double the price.

It is completely within the realm of possibility that some “simple”—albeit costly—manufacturing changes could double the cost of production. Not hard to believe at all.

Occam's Razor... Cat and Snap-On have a contract for Snap-On to manufacture tools with Cat rollmarks from the Snap-On family of brands. To think Snap-On would have Williams manufacture Cat sockets and then go to the extra expense of having special tooling to make the Cat branded sockets look identical to the Snap-On, minus the Cat rollmark, is ludicrous.

For some reason, you seem obsessed with the thought that Cat sockets must be anything other than genuine Snap-On, minus the Cat rollmark. It's been stated by numerous Snap-On dealers that the sockets are genuine Snap-On. Also, why would the dealers be raising so much hell about the price of the Cat sockets, if they weren't genuine Snap-On?

This is just more evidence of Snap-On's grossly inflated pricing for their labeled tools. The Cat price is comparable to other premium brand sockets.

 

[CoThG]

Perhaps but it still doesn't make any sense to me. There were always differences between Williams and SO, including (recently anyway) country of origin. The CAT and SO do appear identical though, aside from warranty and price. I keep thinking maybe its like the chip manufacturers they run a batch and test them those that test fastest get marked at X and sold at a premium those that test middle of the road get marked Y and sold as standard, those that test slowest get marked Z and sold at a discount and those that dont pass QC get thrown out. Plenty of examples of this fuel injectors are another example. Maybe its same situation with CAT and SO IDK. Anyway I'm out. When all is said and done I'm happy most of my sockets say Snap on on the side. I would prefer CAT USA over an ICON set that I have LOL.

I don't think Cat would take kindly for Snap-On to be providing them inferior grade sockets. Like post #68 said, the internet blew this way out of proportion. The Cat family of tools aren't meant to be sold to the general public, but for some reason, they are available. The die hard Snappy fanbois can't fathom the thought that the identical socket, minus the rollmark, is available for substantially less money that what they paid Snappy. So they concoct all these ridiculous stories that the Cat sockets must be made by anyone other than Snap-On, and of an inferior steel and manufacturing process. Get over it. They are the same and some of us took advantage of ordering directly from Cat for substantially less money than on the Snappy truck. As for warranty, I'd have to wait at least on week for a Snap-On replacement vs. my local Cat dealer that can have any tool in their catalog sent to them overnight.

 

[cgrutt]

I don't think Cat would take kindly for Snap-On to be providing them inferior grade sockets. Like post #68 said, the internet blew this way out of proportion. The Cat family of tools aren't meant to be sold to the general public, but for some reason, they are available. The die hard Snappy fanbois can't fathom the thought that the identical socket, minus the rollmark, is available for substantially less money that what they paid Snappy. So they concoct all these ridiculous stories that the Cat sockets must be made by anyone other than Snap-On, and of an inferior steel and manufacturing process. Get over it. They are the same and some of us took advantage of ordering directly from Cat for substantially less money than on the Snappy truck. As for warranty, I'd have to wait at least on week for a Snap-On replacement vs. my local Cat dealer that can have any tool in their catalog sent to them overnight.

Get over yourself bro I never said they were inferior but the spec agreed to per their contract could be different could it not? And you may have to wait a week for Snappy truck but they'll honor that warranty 40 years from now, whats CAT 1 yr? That makes a difference in pricing as well. So have to ask, why do you keep calling them Snap on when they're CAT? I had a Firebird but never called it a Camaro despite being nearly I identical cars when all is said and done. I'm just trying to understand the reason behind it is all buy whatever makes you happy.

 

[CoThG]

Get over yourself bro I never said they were inferior but the spec agreed to per their contract could be different could it not? And you may have to wait a week for Snappy truck but they'll honor that warranty 40 years from now, whats CAT 1 yr? That makes a difference in pricing as well. So have to ask, why do you keep calling them Snap on when they're CAT? I had a Firebird but never called it a Camaro despite being nearly I identical cars when all is said and done. I'm just trying to understand the reason behind it is all buy whatever makes you happy.

Look up Occam's Razor. Why would Cat and Snap-On want inferior spec tools floating around. Both have reputations to uphold. Easier and cheaper to just rebrand genuine Snap-On sockets. As for warranty. All of my Cat tools carry a lifetime warranty. And Cat replacement is next day, if they don't have it in stock.

Your Firebird analogy made my point. They are identical in all the important specs. Just different cosmetics and the Firebird typically had a higher price than a comparable Camaro. The Firebird was Snap-On and the Camaro was Cat.

 

[mooman]

No. Automotive or trade school students. And I don’t think taking one automotive class in your community college qualifies you. Pretty sure you need to be seeking some sort of certification.

That's correct. My son is in the Auto Tech. program at our local Junior Collage and is enrolled in the SEP. The list of tools that are available is limited and discounts vary. It's not 50% off all Snap On tools.

 

[cgrutt]

Look up Occam's Razor. Why would Cat and Snap-On want inferior spec tools floating around. Both have reputations to uphold. Easier and cheaper to just rebrand genuine Snap-On sockets. As for warranty. All of my Cat tools carry a lifetime warranty. And Cat replacement is next day, if they don't have it in stock.

Plenty of reasons price point being one of them. So how is it that Snap on has survived all these years fleecing their core customers with products that are identical to other customers that are priced at a fraction of selling price? Customers (including large corporate and dare I say government) are pretty savvy about that stuff and company's usually don't last long with those practices. Look I don't really care if they're the same or not I hope they are and you got a fantastic deal. Good for you. It just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm trying to understand it. Anyway bored of beating this pony I'm out.

 

[CoThG]

Plenty of reasons price point being one of them. So how is it that Snap on has survived all these years fleecing their core customers with products that are identical to other customers that are priced at a fraction of selling price? Customers (including large corporate and dare I say government) are pretty savvy about that stuff and company's usually don't last long with those practices. Look I don't really care if they're the same or not I hope they are and you got a fantastic deal. Good for you. It just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm trying to understand it. Anyway bored of beating this pony I'm out.

Seems like fleecing their core customers (auto mechanics) is part of their business plan and has made them successful. Face it, most auto mechanics aren't good with money. They see a shiny new tool or box and think... It's only $20 a week...

 

[ChevyEFI]

Don't understand what Snap-on is thinking from a business strategy perspective and suspect this may prove to have significant reputational risk if products are in fact identical but priced so far apart.

There are no CAT sockets where Snap-On sockets are sold. Price competition you perceive doesn't exist in the market(s) they target. It's not a line in the sand, it's a hard stop; warranty is handled 100% differently and separately.

1) there are a bunch of PEOPLE behind the scenes doing “stuff”. If it was as simple as feeding steel into one end, and collecting tools from the other, there wouldn’t be 300 people at the Snap on plant in Milwaukee.

2) like food, tools have recipes, and they get made in batches. Each batch will have its own unique parameters- machines must be programmed, timers set, etc.

It’s very easy for a factory, like a restaurant, to make different products at different quality levels. Even fully automated manufacturing facilities have “recipes”.

There very likely isnt a 3/8” drive 9/16” line and a 1/4” drive 3/8” line. We know there are multiple lines and each one makes a range of different products on them. That’s what the PEOPLE do. There is no manufacturing line that makes you a set of metric deeps. That’s why sometimes you can buy snap on and get a Williams socket mixed in. But that isn’t evidence they are identical.

My guess is, for most plants where I’ve worked, manufacturing costs = materials + time. Materials could be identical, but an hour faster through the tumble media polish, quicker through heat treat, use of older machinery, less time in plating, is how the plant could make 2 different product lines at different price points. Time is usually where the cost is.

Why do we have crossover in 1 Taiwan factory between multiple brands, but surely there must be a separate line / material / process / detail for *that* brand ? Equatorial location differences?

The goal is to make a perceived difference cost as little as possible. Train the drivers to jumble flop "material differences" if it's all it takes. Add a knurling process if needed. Depth differences to make there be a tangible argument to spend a little more. But only if necessary.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Seems like fleecing their core customers (auto mechanics) is part of their business plan and has made them successful. Face it, most auto mechanics aren't good with money. They see a shiny new tool or box and think... It's only $20 a week...

Conversely, they're actually going to use a tool, and not let it dust-collect. Especially if they need it right then and buy it right then. So their cost/use is far better than other folks on the same socket.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

There are no CAT sockets where Snap-On sockets are sold. Price competition you perceive doesn't exist in the market(s) they target. It's not a line I'm the sand, it's a hard stop; warranty is handled 100% differently and separately.


Why do we have crossover in 1 Taiwan factory between multiple brands, but surely there must be a separate line / material / process / detail for *that* brand ? Equatorial location differences?

The goal is to make a perceived difference cost as little as possible. Train the drivers to jumble flop "material differences" if it's all it takes. Add a knurling process if needed. Depth differences to make there be a tangible argument to spend a little more. But only if necessary.

I don’t understand why people cannot fathom that a company will sell the same thing to different customers at different prices. Luxury clothing manufacturers do it, food does it, why should tool manufacturers be any different?

 

[AEAdam]

I don’t understand why people cannot fathom that a company will sell the same thing to different customers at different prices. Luxury clothing manufacturers do it, food does it, why should tool manufacturers be any different?

I’m shocked that you of all people don’t get this. They probably run the Williams stuff on older machines, or as the tools wear.

We know Williams aren’t as hard or dimensionally identical to snap on. We’ve seen Williams screwdrivers with slightly crooked handles. Whatever machine does that is probably just past its prime. Snap on switched to instinct handles but kept the old hard handle line for Williams.

Every machine shop I’ve ever been in had a range of machines with different capabilities.

Why on earth would Snap on offer their tools at deep discounts under other brand names? That would be like thinking you can buy a VW and really get a 911. No one would ever buy a Porsche again.

I feel like I’m telling a kid there is no Santa. Hey, if you have Williams and think you’ve got Snap on, bless your heart. I’m going to get into my POS dodge Durango which is really a Mercedes GL450. Exact same vehicle.