11thfinger
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Are the CAT sockets still made by Willams/Snapon or have they changed the manufacturer? Is it true that they are ending the partnership soon?
Are CAT sockets still Snap On/Williams?
- Thread starter 11thfinger
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According to who? What is your source?
If they do change manufacturers, it would take some time for old stock to be moved before tools from the new manufacturer would come into play.
I wouldn't put any faith into his claim. He's a first time poster.
ChevyEFI
Well-known member
By all means, buy everything you can now.
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mreisner
Well-known member
My Snap on guy had a set of sockets on his truck with one Cat socket in it!
OP
11thfinger
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I wasn't really claiming it, I was asking if it was true. Someone posted it in a snap on FB group and I thought I ask here in case anyone knew.
The 1/4” shallow and deep and 3/8” shallow look just like Snap-on.
They do not look like Williams.
Odd…my 1/4 Williams and my 1/4 Snap Ons look just alike.
Ive watched a few videos and from what I saw they do indeed look like Snap-ons right down to the made in USA markings. I get the whole marginal revenue > marginal cost it makes sense to produce more product if there is excess capacity. What I can't seem to wrap my head around is why Snap-on would risk ******* off its core customers and dealers by selling the same product for a fraction of the price with different branding. Makes zero sense to me. I get the warranty is not the same and warranty is a huge benefit for Snap-on customers. I'd really like to see someone do a metal analysis to see if they truly are identical but for the branding. Ive also noticed the CAT products seem to have the Remanufactured and Non-returnable icons on these sockets (on its website) so wondering if its made with recycled steel or something. Quite puzzling to me anyway.
CAT sockets and wrenches If i'm not mistaken have actual snap-on markings/emboss, eg the special stamps for year or date codes. I don't think I've seen those on williams, but someone can correct me If i'm wrong.
The sockets are Snap-On with Cat rollmark.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
My guess is they are identical as it would require big investment to set up a separate USA production line just for Cat labeled stuff. Simply switching marking dies for a run of standard product would seem to me more cost effective. Leading to or letting customers believe the Cat tools were somehow a lesser quality could justify the price difference.
What the Cat tools demonstrate for me is the huge profit margins on Snappy branded stuff. I'll wager some of the Cat branded sells for less than the truck salesman's cost, which surely pleases them to no end.
Any Snappy dealers here wish to comment?
AND while those interested in CAT tools are listening would someone please tell me if they offer 1/2" dr. fractional inch(SAE) SIX point shallow sockets? I've browsed the catalogs I can find on-line and only find 12pt. Seems odd, no?
Please post pictures of williams sockets or wrenches with snap-on date codes...
No doubt I just can't wrap my head around business strategy they have to be alienating their core customers if true. Also would be interested to learn why theyre marked "Remanufactured" on CAT'S website. If they're made on same line with recycled steel I can understand the extraordinary price difference. Pretty sure a used set of Snap-on sockets would sell for a multiple of new CAT branded sockets. Just don't understand the strategy.
OneEyedMan
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OneEyedMan
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Date codes would imply Snap Ons internal system that would, in theory, mean origination from within the SO system as opposed to one of its subsidiaries.
Date codes and snap-on go back like 100+ years...you sound like you've never heard of them.
Williams and CAT sockets are made on the same lines as mainline SnapOn…this has been established for quite some time. CAT wrenches are not Snap-On for the majority of the line, they are Williams Supercombos. This, too, has been established. There is no great mystery or conspiracy.
Dates codes or not….and yeah, I’m well aware of what they are.
Dates codes or not….and yeah, I’m well aware of what they are.
OneEyedMan
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Williams has two socket lines that I can see, an offshore line equivalent to Blue Point and their SO lite versions.
At least the Cat angle wrenches are still SO.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
It would take a LOT to deter the Snap-On tifosi. Some wear(and BUY!) SO clothing
finn
Well-known member
Most steel, no matter the source, has some percentage of recycled stock in it.
Yeah but most new socket sets dont say remanufactured.
finn
Well-known member
A quick search suggests that Cat sells Reman ratchets and Reman electrical connection “ plugs, harnesses and sockets”
I couldnt come up wuith any reference to Reman hand tool sockets.
Look at it logically: ratchets are rebuilt every day by tool dealers and individuals. Just disassemble, inspect, replace worn or damaged parts, then reassemble.
the same could be done with electrical harnesses, sockets, and plugs. Replace damaged pins, wires, and sheathing. We’re not talking about a $10 harness in your Toyota. The harness for an earthmover would cost thousands of dollars.
Cat provides a factory 1 year warranty for reman plugs, (electrical) sockets, and harnesses, as well as ratchets.
There’s no way to “remanufacture” a broken mechanics socket, unless there’s some sort of burr or maybe even a chrome defect.
Broken sockets would be returned to the vendor (SnapOn in this scenario) if Cat included warranty in the purchasing contract. My experience is that large corporations often buy low value parts without warranty and self insure. That wouldn’t be true for high value items. The vendor, ie SnapOn, if he wanted the part back simply sends the part to a scrap dealer, or, again in the case of SnapOn, who, has no self owned steel mill, send it to one of their steel suppliers for use in a furnace melt.
The other scenario is in the event of a customer return a complete set is returned for some reason, the individual pieces would be inspected and resold as Reman.
Bottom line : there’s no way in the world that Cat could economically remelt an individual socket, reforge the steel, machine, package and distribute a socket and make money. A broken socket goes through a scrapping process (if it doesn’t go to the landfill.).
All steel processes use some percentage off remelt scrap.
This is one example two pics I couldn't get everything on one page. The key for product includes remanufactured. I'm not saying one socket returned by a customer I'm saying an entire product line produced under contract by Snap-on. Could they be using recycled steel? I don't know. But this could explain why CAT sockets appear identical to snap-on but sell for 1/5 the price. Maybe they're made on same line but with different grade of steel? I don't know this to be the case just wondering why the sockets are sold with the remanufactured key on product page for substantially less than nearly identical Snap-on product.
mattstevens
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That key section is on each page in the parts store to explain what the icons mean in the listings. You'll also see it at the bottom of category listings, search results, etc. Here's an example of a remanufactured and non-returnable part:
And here's the socket set with no icons:
There's another pricing example too - that's the 1/4 6-point 4-15mm set. $70 vs $252 for Snap-on's 5-15. Pricing seems to vary by dealer, for me it's about 1/3 of SO but others have reported it being even less.
And here's the socket set with no icons:
There's another pricing example too - that's the 1/4 6-point 4-15mm set. $70 vs $252 for Snap-on's 5-15. Pricing seems to vary by dealer, for me it's about 1/3 of SO but others have reported it being even less.
Ah, ok thanks for that. Didn't see the icons used above and thought they may have applied but that makes sense now.
Don't understand what Snap-on is thinking from a business strategy perspective and suspect this may prove to have significant reputational risk if products are in fact identical but priced so far apart.
Don't understand what Snap-on is thinking from a business strategy perspective and suspect this may prove to have significant reputational risk if products are in fact identical but priced so far apart.
I think you guys are looking WAY too much into the reman icon thing. It's a company that sells primarily equipment and parts. Tools are one of the smallest, least thought of parts of the website, it's more than likely just an error of some sort. No one is remanufacturing sockets, Snap On doesn't order special recycled steel to make specifically CAT sockets. The very logistics of it make no sense.
road ruiner
Member
doesn't i con look like snap on seems like a lot to go through for something so trivial - all these years and still no verification. i believe you are not going to get the full snap on treatment on a snap on made socket that is stamped cat and resale value brings it down to mostly nothing. just like snap on made craftsman tools many moons ago they are still craftsman. i feel unheard of names usually means junk in the realm of things. to me if it is not stamped snap on you just have a facsimile. cat is going to sell something good they also have a reputation to uphold my guess is cat tools lean towards williams a lot, - plus the wasted time for acquisition and at the end you still really do not know what you got. my tools say snap on keeps it simple for me even if it is rebranded it usually has a better handle or configured for easy use - summary are cat tools good i vote yes, are they snap on no.
I want no part of this conversation except to say: Try to think of factories more like restaurants.
1) there are a bunch of PEOPLE behind the scenes doing “stuff”. If it was as simple as feeding steel into one end, and collecting tools from the other, there wouldn’t be 300 people at the Snap on plant in Milwaukee.
2) like food, tools have recipes, and they get made in batches. Each batch will have its own unique parameters- machines must be programmed, timers set, etc.
It’s very easy for a factory, like a restaurant, to make different products at different quality levels. Even fully automated manufacturing facilities have “recipes”.
There very likely isnt a 3/8” drive 9/16” line and a 1/4” drive 3/8” line. We know there are multiple lines and each one makes a range of different products on them. That’s what the PEOPLE do. There is no manufacturing line that makes you a set of metric deeps. That’s why sometimes you can buy snap on and get a Williams socket mixed in. But that isn’t evidence they are identical.
My guess is, for most plants where I’ve worked, manufacturing costs = materials + time. Materials could be identical, but an hour faster through the tumble media polish, quicker through heat treat, use of older machinery, less time in plating, is how the plant could make 2 different product lines at different price points. Time is usually where the cost is.
Hope this helps
1) there are a bunch of PEOPLE behind the scenes doing “stuff”. If it was as simple as feeding steel into one end, and collecting tools from the other, there wouldn’t be 300 people at the Snap on plant in Milwaukee.
2) like food, tools have recipes, and they get made in batches. Each batch will have its own unique parameters- machines must be programmed, timers set, etc.
It’s very easy for a factory, like a restaurant, to make different products at different quality levels. Even fully automated manufacturing facilities have “recipes”.
There very likely isnt a 3/8” drive 9/16” line and a 1/4” drive 3/8” line. We know there are multiple lines and each one makes a range of different products on them. That’s what the PEOPLE do. There is no manufacturing line that makes you a set of metric deeps. That’s why sometimes you can buy snap on and get a Williams socket mixed in. But that isn’t evidence they are identical.
My guess is, for most plants where I’ve worked, manufacturing costs = materials + time. Materials could be identical, but an hour faster through the tumble media polish, quicker through heat treat, use of older machinery, less time in plating, is how the plant could make 2 different product lines at different price points. Time is usually where the cost is.
Hope this helps
OneEyedMan
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The strategy is to sell into as many markets as possible without diluting their tool truck sales. Government contracts are a fairly closed market, Cat dealers are a sort of legacy agreement if I had to guess. If enough techs started ordering through Cat dealers, I’m guessing the model would be changed.
I’m editing to ad that the biggest thing SO trucks offer is not so much tools at your shop as easy credit. Go fill a tool box with any tool discussed and it isn’t cheap. If Cat pays in full per purchase, that’s a value in itself.
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finn
Well-known member
Explain the logistics of remanufacturing a set of sockets.This is one example two pics I couldn't get everything on one page. The key for product includes remanufactured. I'm not saying one socket returned by a customer I'm saying an entire product line produced under contract by Snap-on. Could they be using recycled steel? I don't know. But this could explain why CAT sockets appear identical to snap-on but sell for 1/5 the price. Maybe they're made on same line but with different grade of steel? I don't know this to be the case just wondering why the sockets are sold with the remanufactured key on product page for substantially less than nearly identical Snap-on product.