Are Matco & Craftsman the same?

[HoleshotzPerf]

I just spent a fair amount of money on a lot of new Matco tools and stumbled upon this site while I was doing some research and came to the determination that Craftsman tools are made by the same company that owns Matco, A Sears employee confirmed this. After looking around my local Sears, I noticed a lot of Craftsman stuff that looked EXACTLY the same as my Matco tools (different color scheme of course) except Craftsman/Craftsman Pro branded and MUCH lower prices. Some things off the top of my head are the mini pick set, scrapper set & cman pro pry bar set. I also noticed some Craftsman pliers that look exactly like my Knipex Cobras except with a $23 price tag. I picked them up and sure enough, they are the SAME and say "Made in Germany" right on them.

Before coming across this site, I never really took the time to research tools before I bought them and I am new here so don't kill me if this has been discussed before. It just seems like Danaher is really screwing over Matco customers if this stuff really is exactly the same.

 

[Merkava_4]

This is where the MATCO dealers on this site should come out swinging to defend their product and give us the details of the differences; instead, they'll just tell you that MATCO tools are built to a different set of specifications than CRAFTSMAN tools are; whatever the frick that means.

 

[crashbumper]

I worked for a division of Greenlee for a number of years, and we made items for other companies.

These "different specs" really just amounted to specific decals, coloring, packaging, etc. I can't recall anytime when anything functional/innovative ever changed on a product for just that customer.

Just as with auto parts, computer parts, etc, etc. Many places opt to spend money having their logo engraved/painted/stickered rather than R&D to do it first.

I see a lot of tools at autozone/pep boys that are identical (packaging size, tool, instructions) to harbor freight.

 

[autoace]

I just spent a fair amount of money on a lot of new Matco tools and stumbled upon this site while I was doing some research and came to the determination that Craftsman tools are made by the same company that owns Matco, A Sears employee confirmed this. After looking around my local Sears, I noticed a lot of Craftsman stuff that looked EXACTLY the same as my Matco tools (different color scheme of course) except Craftsman/Craftsman Pro branded and MUCH lower prices. Some things off the top of my head are the mini pick set, scrapper set & cman pro pry bar set. I also noticed some Craftsman pliers that look exactly like my Knipex Cobras except with a $23 price tag. I picked them up and sure enough, they are the SAME and say "Made in Germany" right on them.

Before coming across this site, I never really took the time to research tools before I bought them and I am new here so don't kill me if this has been discussed before. It just seems like Danaher is really screwing over Matco customers if this stuff really is exactly the same.

After being a member of this place for awhile, I have learned alot about re-labeling. Alot of Craftsman stuff is identical to their Matco counterparts, Matco shares tools with Danaher's Gearwrench also.

I noticed recently that Cornwell raised their prices about 30% for 2009! I'm not indulging in the truck tool brands for now. After roughing it, tool wise in this economy, I'll be hot on my Hazet dream set in the fairly distant future. I can afford Craftsman prices now, that's about it, so rest assured SOME of the stuff is the same, without the tuxedo treatment.

 

[Merkava_4]

There was a time when Matco's wrenches looked just like the S-K made C-MANs that were being made for Sears, but in recent years, they seem to have gotten better. I've been bidding on some single Matco wrenches so I can analyze them closely, but I keep getting outbid. I'm afraid to bid high on something unless I know for sure I'll like it.

If I was a Matco dealer and I was a member of this board, I'd be getting REAL good at macro photography. HINT!!

 

[tsumetai-kokoro]

KD matco craftsman you find the same things pop up all over.

i got gearwrench non-ratcheting combination wrenches for $70 that are identical to the $350 matco ones. matco tq wrench = KD. lots of similarities in the craftsman ratchets and matco 36tooth ones.

so just use whatever works well

 

[goodfellow]

I just purchased a backup set of SAE and metric Craftsman 1/4" drive swivel sockets. The 18 piece set was $99 and I used the double coupon deal to get a great discount. I can't tell the difference between these swivels and the MATCO set that I bought three years ago on e-Bay for $180.

I also purchased a nice set of 3/8 drive Craftsman extensions. First off, I noticed that the chrome is much better than the 1970's/80's versions and that they look exactly the same as the MATCO offerings.

Craftsman has to be the best deal in US made tools right now --

 

[petty4243]

companies like OTC and Lisle have made lots of the tools for most of our truck brands as well as craftsman as far back as I can remember....

 

[kythri]

Matco ratchets, NAPA ratchets, Craftsman ratchets, they all share the same rebuild kits, they just have different handles. There's your different specifications.

I wouldn't say Danaher is screwing over the Matco customers, though, unless Snap-On, Mac and Cornwell are doing the same. The Matco customers, like the Snap-On et. al. customers, place a high value on the "convenience" of having a truck come to them, instead of having to go to a store and buy or exchange tools. Technically, Sears doesn't warranty Craftsman for commercial use, so there's that bit, there. Matco undoubtedly serves up credit similar to Snap-On, as well, providing the ability for poor starving mechanics to buy a bunch of tools up front.

Also, you aren't a real mechanic unless you use truck brand tools, because the other guys in the shop will laugh at you for using Craftsman, and customers will turn away in disgust.

 

[Fedwrench]

There are similarites across all Danaher lines (KD, Napa, Craftsman, Armstrong, Allen, Kobalt, Gearwrench, etc.) just as there are similarities across shared Ford or GM vehicle lines. However, there are differences too. First off, look at ratchets. Matco doesn't even offer a quick release ratchet and if you picked both brands of ratchets up, you would notice that the Matco version is lighter and better balanced. As for extensions, Matco extensions are knurled for enhanced finger spinning. I have yet to see a knurled Craftsman extension. The locking extensions have completely different locking mechanisms.
As for wrenches, the current Matco combination wrenches have a modified open end to prevent spread and improve grip. The opitorque feature isn't found on Craftsman wrenches too include their pro line. I can't ever remember Matco wrenches looking like SK or Craftsman versions, Bonney maybe. The Gearwrench non ratcheting wrenches are a real close Matco copy down to the optitorque open end but, the beam is different, as is the balance, and they're made in the PRC. For screwdrivers and picks, most of the current versions are made in Germany by Witte. I think Matco pry bars and scrapers are sourced by Mayhew which also makes some of Craftsman's.
Every tool truck sells rebadged tools. Snap on probably sells fewer than the others. I encourage all of you to buy from Sears, Ebay, or whoever you can get the best deal from. Remember though, that the tool truck comes to you to meet your needs, and affords you the ability to pay as you earn with your new tools. Granted that weekly truck payment gets old over time. There are very few other options availble besides tool trucks for certain sizes of tools or other specialized tools, compare the size range of offered sockets and wrenches. You could get by with the Craftsman versions in common sizes and get the other sizes from a truck to save money. I don't think there's a huge conspiracy theory about where Matco or other tool trucks get their tools from. I do think that as users, we need to research our tool purchases (along with other purchases) and get the best bang for the buck. I've always liked Matco tools and gotten great service from my dealer. All tool truck prices **** but, it's a trade off for door to door service and easy credit.

 

[goodfellow]

Also, you aren't a real mechanic unless you use truck brand tools, because the other guys in the shop will laugh at you for using Craftsman, and customers will turn away in disgust.

I know it's sarcasm, and they may have laughed at one time, but things are changing. One of my personal quirks is that I like to visit independent shops and see what tools mechanics use. I've enough acquaintances to be able to gain access to many specialized shops. One of the most interesting trends I see is that many pro mechanics are abandoning the truck brands in favor of other options.

It could be the economy, the influence and accessibility of Internet-based tool retailers, truck service reliability, or just a coincidence. I've seen more mechanics (senior and junior level) purchase Craftsman tools. They show up proudly right next to their truck brands. I recently purchased a long pattern ADT (Chinese) made full polish 14pc wrench set, based on what some of these pro machanics had to say about the quality of these products.

Last year a close friend from Germany who is a 30 year master mechanic purchased a 370pc Craftsman set and took it back to Germany with him. He's the envy of his peers because he owns US made tools. Although a small few of his colleagues ridicule him for his choice (mostly because they dislike anything American), he and others swear by the price and quality of Craftsman versus quality European offerings.

 

[krusty the clown]

There was a time when Matco's wrenches looked just like the armstrong made C-MANs

fixed

 

[Fedwrench]

Matco ratchets, NAPA ratchets, Craftsman ratchets, they all share the same rebuild kits, they just have different handles. There's your different specifications.

Not true. Show me a Matco ratchet with a quick release? The repair kits aren't interchangable. It is true that that the old style Matco ratchet has 36 teeth and the current style has 60 teeth which is the same tooth count for some Craftsman ratchets.

 

[Spookrider]

Vise grips. C-Man pro are the same as vise grip that was sitting next to it. The number on it even match.
Only thing C-Man did to differ is to put straight jaw instead a curve jaw like Irwin did in there set.

 

[krusty the clown]

Not true. Show me a Matco ratchet with a quick release? The repair kits aren't interchangable. It is true that that the old style Matco ratchet has 36 teeth and the current style has 60 teeth which is the same tooth count for some Craftsman ratchets.

QR/ non QR.............they are still essentially the same. if it weren't for market research showing that most pro's do not like QR and most homeowners do they WOULD be the same. it doesn't really change the argument of the OP does it?

it isn't that the matco ratchets aren't good..........why pay $60 when "basically" the same ratchet can be bought for $25.

 

[billymade]

Matco CR17FTA 1/2" 17" long Drive FLEX Heavy Duty Ratchet

Krusty, do you think that the strength of the head kit is higher and possibly the gear is bigger, more robust or heat treated to a higher standard? I just bought my first Matco ratchet; the one show above, except the swivel head, doesn't lock at the flea for $30. I rebuilt/lubed the head and was very impressed with the strength of the pawl/gear; I don't care for the selector, however. The weight and heft of the gear alone; was impressive! I don't have a thin profile 1/2" craftsman to compare to but this thing is built like a tank... I don't really care for Matco tools but this thing is changing my impression of Matco ratchets! This particular ratchet is 36 tooth, the so head is different; the gear/pawl are very wide and very heavily built... it looks pretty indestructible! Clueless, observer here... looking for answers!
I may look at my 1/2" Craftsman Professional Full Polish ratchet and see if the pawl/gear look similar! I will say, that because there is not "quick release" button; the gear is just one big chunk of metal!

 

[jerk_chicken]

Then comes the argument of how different Armstrong is, because as time goes on, it's starting to look more and more like everything else in the Danaher line.

 

[paramudduck]

The borg is assimilating all. All will be the same, there is no escape.

 

[forceyoda]

I just bought a new 10 piece set of Matco flex head comfort grip wrenches with the spline drive off ebay and I was very disapointed to see they are "made in Tawain to Matco specifications"- they retail for over $400. You can get a gearwrench set made from the same factory for $100. I do not see how Matco specifications would make it cost $300 more coming from the same factory.

I am getting realy tired of the top tier tool brands selling rebranded tawain stuff for hundreds of dollars more than they are worth and it seems like snap on is the only one who acutualy lists the country of origin in their catalog and website.

 

[jerk_chicken]

Danaher is starting to remind me of how GM had four brands making the same car back in the 80's and 90's (and yes, even earlier!). One or two would claim upscale, another claimed performance, and one was just simply there.

 

[steelespeed]

I just bought a new 10 piece set of Matco flex head comfort grip wrenches with the spline drive off ebay and I was very disapointed to see they are "made in Tawain to Matco specifications"- they retail for over $400. You can get a gearwrench set made from the same factory for $100. I do not see how Matco specifications would make it cost $300 more coming from the same factory.

I am getting realy tired of the top tier tool brands selling rebranded tawain stuff for hundreds of dollars more than they are worth and it seems like snap on is the only one who acutualy lists the country of origin in their catalog and website.

i bought a standard and metric set of the Craftsman Reversible Ratcheting wrenches for that very reason. Half the price of SK's Taiwanese sourced versions.

 

[Fedwrench]

We have beat this point to death several times before but, yes it ***** badly to pay tool truck prices for imported tools from Taiwan or the PRC. Then there's the whole not engraving the country of origin on the tool movement that all of the tool truck brands seem to be moving to these days. One has to shop around for the best quality for the best price which often means the internet over a tool truck.

 

[forceyoda]

It is not a problem with it coming from overseas or the fact that matco does not want to put TAWAIN on it but it's like they are trying to hide it. You go to snapon.com and look at any of their tools and right in the description it states the country of origin. Also the tawain stuff (IE Blue Point) is cheaper. Matco is just ripping people off asking what they are for tawain tools.

 

[lbgradwell]

You go to snapon.com and look at any of their tools and right in the description it states the country of origin.

Yes, but this is a very recent change!

 

[bowtie3]

Craftsman has to be the best deal in US made tools right now --

I would lean more toward Matco being the worst deal in US made tools right now. I think if guys would put the research in what they are buying, Matco would have some serious problems. I would bet my house all the Craftsman and Matco are made in the same plants, with the same steel, by the same people with just enough cosmetic difference to say "oh no.. their not the same we use a different set of super duper great fantastic specs". I personally think its one of the biggest ripoffs in the US market.

 

[steelespeed]

so, as someone starting to build a decent tool selection, what would you recommend? Truck bought tools are expensive and somewhat difficult for the home user to justify/afford/get...

 

[jerk_chicken]

All I read about Matco is such things as their incredibly high costs, even when compared to Snap On.

I too don't buy the different steels. I can somewhat believe that perhaps some things are different, but hell, one can get Armstrongs for a steal and have no problems working as a pro wrench with them.

This also raises that question again about those Williams Supercombos when compared to the SO Flanks. I really can't imagine that they would really use such diverse alloys in one line next to another, especially with the price difference. To me, that price different really reflects supporting the SO distribution channels.

 

[bowtie3]

so, as someone starting to build a decent tool selection, what would you recommend? Truck bought tools are expensive and somewhat difficult for the home user to justify/afford/get...

If I were going to just work around home I would consider Craftsman, Gearwrench, (see I'm not anti Danaher just anti Matco) or others. If I'm paying tool truck prices I want the core (American made) lines from Snap-on and Cornwell, mainly because if I'm going to pay that kind of money I want something I can't buy at sears or NAPA for 1/4 the cost. The only place you can buy those two companies core hard line is from them, you don't have to wonder if its "different" you know 100% for sure it is.

 

[HolisticPerformance]

I would lean more toward Matco being the worst deal in US made tools right now. I think if guys would put the research in what they are buying, Matco would have some serious problems. I would bet my house all the Craftsman and Matco are made in the same plants, with the same steel, by the same people with just enough cosmetic difference to say "oh no.. their not the same we use a different set of super duper great fantastic specs". I personally think its one of the biggest ripoffs in the US market.

If I were going to just work around home I would consider Craftsman, Gearwrench, (see I'm not anti Danaher just anti Matco) or others. If I'm paying tool truck prices I want the core (American made) lines from Snap-on and Cornwell, mainly because if I'm going to pay that kind of money I want something I can't buy at sears or NAPA for 1/4 the cost. The only place you can buy those two companies core hard line is from them, you don't have to wonder if its "different" you know 100% for sure it is.

I feel this way too, about the CORE line - which isn't much more than Wrenches, Sockets, and Ratchets. However, I bought that stuff years ago. I now care about things like wheel hub pullers, large diameter taps and dies, the stuff you acquire after being in the business for 10+ years. The real marketing scheme here is that companies like Snap-On use the reputation of their CORE LINE to sell their rebadged stuff at SO prices, because guys now buy into the "Anything Snap-On is supreme" lie.

 

[Merkava_4]

fixed

No, the S-K made Matco and Craftsman wrenches were before the Armstrong made wrenches. They're easy to spot with their disgusting wide beam / box end intersections. They're extremely ugly.

PS. Why the hell didn't you answer my PM?

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

If it looks the same, it most likely is.

If the parent company Danaher makes two products, one for Craftsman and one for Matco, and they share the same exact dimensions and look identical (except the color or logo), I have a hard time believing the tools aren't the exact same.

The reason they're most likely the exact same is simple, it would be more expensive for a company to make the same tool, in the same factory, on the same machines with different specs, one "lower" quality and one "higher" quality, than to just simply make the entire line with a single, high quality spec.

As an example, do you really think a manufacturer would go to all the trouble to put "lesser" quality steel in the same mold for one batch, and then put "higher" quality steel in the mold for another batch? Whatever savings you could derive from doing a system like that (probably pennies per tool) would be greatly offset by the costs and complexity of separating the two lines from one another during the manufacturing process.

A lot of the tool buying experience is perception. I rarely hear anyone complaining about the quality of Matco tools, yet Craftsman routinely get slammed (sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's not).

The reason is simple, Matco MUST be high quality, because it's expensive and marketed to the professional. Craftsman MUST be inferior because it's marketed to the DIY and is inexpensive in comparison. When the truth is, a lot of their lines overlap and are the same exact tool, they're just sold through different channels.

We've also seen similar instances of this where a company like Snap-on will take another company's exact product, slap their name on it, and charge a 300-400% premium over what the original company charges. I highly doubt these original manufacturers put "better" materials in these items when they sell them to SNAP On, but the Snap On name commands a premium.

Is it really so hard to imagine that all these tool truck companies play this same game across their entire tool line?

 

[HolisticPerformance]

Nice post TangoFoxTrot. Well said.

 

[Merkava_4]

I can't ever remember Matco wrenches looking like SK or Craftsman versions, Bonney maybe.

The S-K made Matco wrenches were right after Bonney went out of business sometime during the 1990s.

 

[jerk_chicken]

I also know some of these companies try to fool people by perhaps paying more attention to the finish on one rebadged line than the other to increase the perception of a better quality product, something people fall for left and right, including on this forum.

 

[davestlouis]

Perception of value is the name of the game in any kind of sales environment...why else would people spend $72K for an Escalade when you can get damn near the same thing in an Yukon Denali for $55K? Or 90% of the goodies in a Suburban for $45?

Part of it really is convenience...the truck rolls in with shiny stuff, you buy it, simple as that. You also pay $10 for a cheesburger at Six Flags because it's right there and you're hungry.

 

[old salvage]

The S-K made Matco wrenches were right after Bonney went out of business sometime during the 1990s.

Do Matco wrenches have date codes ?

 

[rhandwor]

A lot of these companies buy from Vim,and others. It pays to look at what you are buying.
The tool trucks provide a service which is needed so it pays to give them some business.
The same company makes torx plus for Snap On and Matco but Snap On does their own heat treating. SKYO Industries.

 

[HoleshotzPerf]

The thing that really got me was the $25 Crafstman re-branded Knipex Cobras. I never would have thought that the markup on tools was so much that Craftsman could sell these at half the price Matco is selling these for and still make a profit.

I cant really make too big of a fuss about the Matco stuff because my friend in a auto tech program gets 50 - 55% off all the tool truck brand tools and owed me a few favors so he gave me the hookup and I really went to town ordering. Again, these companies must be making a killing if they could afford to sell these tools at 55% off, I'm sure they are still making a profit on this stuff.

It seems like out of all the Matco stuff I got, My favorites are the products that are not actually made by Matco. The Witte/Matco screwdrivers are real nice and so are the Knipex/Matco pliers/cutters.

Also, a buddy of mine has a set of older Matco combo wrenches that are identical to my mac knuckle savers. I looked through Matco's site and saw they don't sell anything like it any more, anyone have any info about this?

 

[jerk_chicken]

I too was surprised to see the Cobras as CM in a two pack and cheaper than Knipex. I figure this was made possible due to import tariffs on how it will be sold (from an American rebrander as opposed to a high tariff on a foreign branded item) and the fact that a portion of the price is to cover support. Sears takes over the warranty with their consolidated network, and that further reduces the overhead and the pricing for the oe manufacturer.

And I agree with the above. It's way harder and costlier to make two separate alloys, get them geared up at the foundry and all the involved processes, rather than just use one, and stamp and/or finish them differently, then price them according to the distribution method's needs.

 

[billymade]

What happened to the Quality Control guy from Danaher? Anyone remember his name? PM him to comment on this thread and shed some light on the situation; he would be as "official" as we can get as to what the reality of Matco/Craftsman issue is. I think he addressed this in another thread; anyone remember which one it was?