Armstrong quality control????

[zuspiel]

Just got the following wrenches from MSC last night. Will call them now to exchange them...

7/8 x 3/4 tappet wrench, stamped crooked:

3/8 x 7/16 tappet wrench, bent (the camera distorted it a bit, but it is bent...):

9/32 ignition wrench, tall edge standing up:

 

[48548]

wow, that is really bad, I wouldn't want to use that at all, I also would want it replaced.

 

[B.O.V. Norway]

Man, that is sad. On the other hand, put them on a display and call the whole thing 'comment on the society' and you are bound to get a couple of million $ for it.

Have a nice day.

 

[jerk_chicken]

Ignition wrench looks fine. Stop being a baby.

However, that does look bad. How were in the entire order (not like it's an excuse). The stamping would be a bit iffy, but if I'm replacing other stuff, I'd send it in too. Looks fake.

Maybe smcdonn can chime in.

 

[krusty the clown]

Ignition wrench looks fine. Stop being a baby.

do what????????? look at that picture again

 

[zuspiel]

Just shipped them back to MSC. Replacements are on the way. Was quite painless.

Yeah, I don't think I'm being a baby about the ignition wrench. That grate sticks up 2.5 mm and if it weren't for the chrome, would be pretty sharp. I'd have to file it off and live with peeling chrome...

The 7/8 x 3/4 tappet I would have lived with. Strange that there are no tool marks from the stamping if it was in the press that crooked...

The 3/8 x 7/16 worried me a bit (plus I'm man enough to bend my own tappet wrench ) The steel is quite springy, though, which I like. Catastrophic failure shouldn't hurt that much if it ever happens... Otherwise, the tappets are nice. Nothing that Merk could get excited about but I think they'll do the job just fine.

I don't think I would have bothered if one wrench had an issue (especially if it was just the stamping, that only adds character). 3 bad wrenches out of a total of 15 is a bit much, though...

 

[jerk_chicken]

Should have used this before:

 

[zuspiel]

Ahhh... Yeah, smileys help...

 

[krusty the clown]

yep a smiley is a sure fire way of denoting sarcasm.........i thought you may have been joking but you never know

 

[smcdonn]

I am at work currently so I can't view the pictures but am currious to see what the parts look like. I will more than likely hear about this issue from the top down. Once I get home I will view the pictures and comment on the issues.

 

[zuspiel]

smcdonn, I'm curious what your view on these is. I didn't remember your user name when I first posted this...

Since I already returned the tappet wrenches to MSC this morning, the above pics will have to do. I do still have the ignition wrench since the MSC lady didn't give me a RMA for it and said the replacement would drop ship from Armstrong. A couple of minutes later, I got a MSC order confirmation for that wrench with price $0 and shipping $0. So I hung on to it...

The bent 3/8 x 7/16 is hard to evaluate in the pic above due to the distortion of the camera lens. When laying flat on the table, the center of the beam is ca. 3mm higher than it should be...

Please let me know if you'd like other views of the ignition wrench. The back side of the tall grate is machined flat with the opening of the wrench.

Thanks for looking into this.

 

[Stuey]

Wow, that looks pretty bad! Hope the replacements are in perfect order!

 

[autoace]

That is pathetic...I have received tools from Snap-on online (not quite as bad) but warped. With quality like that, it makes me wonder about the whole line? I cannot believe MSC tried to foist those turds on you. They must have seen it before packaging, they are just hoping some customers are grapes, and would eat the turd and smile. I would ask for a complete refund and buy another brand from a different vendor, maybe they will learn.

 

[autoace]

^^^^
I was under the impression they were separates, if they were sets MSC probably wouldn't have seen it, my bad...but I would have sent them all back anyhow, and bought some other brand.

 

[zuspiel]

Only the ignition wrenches came in a set. The tappet ones were individuals. They still came in plastic baggies sealed by Armstrong. MSC has such a huge inventory and shipping volume that I'm pretty sure as long as the bar code scans right, it will be put in the box. Plus the RMA was super easy and my replacements are on the way.

The thing is, buying Armstrong from MSC with 35% off (and free shipping, as it worked out) is an excellent bang for the buck in my book. Are the tappets as nice as my MAC KS2s? No. Will they do the job? Yes. This stuff isn't something that gets used a lot, anyway. As I mentioned above, I like the steel on the tappet wrenches. Springy is much better than brittle for these things. The finish isn't highly polished super smooth triple chromed, but they won't rust either. The ignition wrenches (with the one notable exception) are well finished. I have an Armstrong chisel holder that's just beautiful and super strong. So while I'm a bit disappointed in the stuff I got last night, I'll probably get some more Armstrong tools in the future to round out my set of tools...

 

[autoace]

Only the ignition wrenches came in a set. The tappet ones were individuals. They still came in plastic baggies sealed by Armstrong. MSC has such a huge inventory and shipping volume that I'm pretty sure as long as the bar code scans right, it will be put in the box. Plus the RMA was super easy and my replacements are on the way.

The thing is, buying Armstrong from MSC with 35% off (and free shipping, as it worked out) is an excellent bang for the buck in my book. Are the tappets as nice as my MAC KS2s? No. Will they do the job? Yes. This stuff isn't something that gets used a lot, anyway. As I mentioned above, I like the steel on the tappet wrenches. Springy is much better than brittle for these things. The finish isn't highly polished super smooth triple chromed, but they won't rust either. The ignition wrenches (with the one notable exception) are well finished. I have an Armstrong chisel holder that's just beautiful and super strong. So while I'm a bit disappointed in the stuff I got last night, I'll probably get some more Armstrong tools in the future to round out my set of tools...

I understand, still makes me wonder though. How is it I have received "perfect" finished tools that are HF Pittsburgh Pros(like the long double box wrenches), and I get warped wrenches from Snap-on????????

There is no wonder anymore in my mind, as to the success of many, not all, Asian tool manufacturers. pretty soon there won't be an advantage to the "super" tool companies. Although Cornwell USA, Hazet, and now PB Swiss have never disappointed me yet.

 

[paramudduck]

It seems as if quality control is getting worse and worse with most companies any more.

 

[smcdonn]

Ok I got a chance to look at the pictures. First pic is unacceptable and a cosmetic defect of that magnitude should have been caught by one of our operators during machining. The second pic of the bent tappet: I'll be honest, that defect shouldn't have made it out of the plant although you get a lot of that with wrenches that have an extremely long and thin beam sections. The last pic is also completely unacceptable and should have also been caught by an operator during machining. Apologies are worthless at this point but I can assure you some managers will have a thorn in their side for a while regarding these issues.

 

[paramudduck]

I would kind of like to have one like the top one. It's different I like that.
The bottom ignition wrench is the really bad one.

Don't take it too hard tho I've seen stuff like this from about every manufacturer lately.

 

[r6_cannibal]

I agree that the wrenches should have been sent back, but I kinda liked the first one with the crooked stamping I might have kept that one just because it's different in a functional way.

 

[bushhawg73]

The thing is, buying Armstrong from MSC with 35% off (and free shipping, as it worked out) is an excellent bang for the buck in my book.

The 35% off secret code is........

 

[wrenchr]

Armstrong should be ashamed!!!

 

[paramudduck]

From the sound of smcdonn's post they are and will be.

 

[Paladin]

Aw, **** happens. How often do you really hear of QC issues at Armstrong? My experience with their stuff has been VERY positive. What really matters is that someone like smcdonn cares enough about the problem to admit publicly that the tools were sub-standard and that the problem will be fixed.

 

[smcdonn]

**** does happen but as we all know, you don't purchase made in the USA anymore because it's light on the wallet.

 

[Merkava_4]

I agree that the wrenches should have been sent back, but I kinda liked the first one with the crooked stamping I might have kept that one just because it's different in a functional way.

That tells us a little something about you doesn't it?

 

[krusty the clown]

That tells us a little something about you doesn't it?

yeah.......he doesn't have OCD

 

[autoace]

Aw, **** happens. How often do you really hear of QC issues at Armstrong? My experience with their stuff has been VERY positive. What really matters is that someone like smcdonn cares enough about the problem to admit publicly that the tools were sub-standard and that the problem will be fixed.

Three defects in one order, to one customer....if these problems are far and few, what are the odds he would get them? This junk must be all over the place. Armstrong is not the only one.

 

[Merkava_4]

What this thread tells me is that I can't order Armstrong tools online; I'll have to be there in person to inspect each tool carefully before I buy it. I've got an industrial supplier in town that stocks Armstrong, but not everyone has that luxury.

 

[Paladin]

Three defects in one order, to one customer....if these problems are far and few, what are the odds he would get them? This junk must be all over the place. Armstrong is not the only one.

I agree, that it's sad (shocking, actually) that he had 3 bad products, but this just reminds me of all of the SK bashing. I just think that stuff like this happens very infrequently. It just gets A LOT of publicity in this forum of more discerning collectors. If this was a wide-spread issue, why are we just now noting it? I'll bet if anyone was to search this forum for "Armstrong", 99% of the posts would be positive.

 

[autoace]

What this thread tells me is that I can't order Armstrong tools online; I'll have to be there in person to inspect each tool carefully before I buy it. I've got an industrial supplier in town that stocks Armstrong, but not everyone has that luxury.

If I wasn't sitting here suffering from the flu. I would go take pictures of my two Snap-on tools, that are not much better than those Armstrongs. I have a 18 mm flank drive plus wrench that is WAVY, and I mean real wavy, and a short 3/8 extension, you need a deadblow hammer to get a socket on, and a vise and pliers to get it off. Both purchased online, that's how they get rid of seconds, so buyer beware. As a matter of fact Merk. I will give you the brand new Snap-on tools if you want them...just PM me..I'll even pay the shipping, I'm real through dealing with SO ****. Seems if it's not Cornwell USA or Hazet, it's **** these days.......In my recent experience

 

[autoace]

I agree, that it's sad (shocking, actually) that he had 3 bad products, but this just reminds me of all of the SK bashing. I just think that stuff like this happens very infrequently. It just gets A LOT of publicity in this forum of more discerning collectors. If this was a wide-spread issue, why are we just now noting it? I'll bet if anyone was to search this forum for "Armstrong", 99% of the posts would be positive.

It's not reported, because the people getting the messed tools, are not tool nuts on the GJ..............so we don't hear about it.

 

[krusty the clown]

i think any company that is running product at the rate that danaher is going to have SOME quality problems. most never leave the plant. i think this may be more of a quality control problem...........somebody wasn't paying attention in the packaging dept.

 

[Merkava_4]

I have a 18 mm flank drive plus wrench that is WAVY, and I mean real wavy,(....)

Is the waviness in the chrome or in the steel itself?

 

[back2class]

Funny. I thought that tappet wrench looked exactly like my Craftsman ones and I am not one of these guys who tracks these things. Forgot for a moment that they come out of the same company......Just a guess here, but I bet they come off the same line.

 

[autoace]

Is the waviness in the chrome or in the steel itself?

The steel itself, you can have them for free, if you can exchange them...................I had a new SO dealer, told me THEY DON'T WARRANTY BENT TOOLS........they are brand new! that's the way I got them. That guy only lasted two weeks, he/SO still have other tools of mine, but he went awol, nobody has seen him. Typical, remember I PM'd you telling you I was gonna give SO another chance, oh well, I don't need Snap-on.

 

[Fedwrench]

Every brand too include each of the tool truck brands have quality control issues sooner or later. The tools are made by people and people make mistakes from time to time. What's important is how the manufacturer and their dealers act to resolve the quality issues. Are replacements provided quickly? Are the replacements just as screwed up as the tools they're suppose to replace? Do they balk at doing anything? Do they say your complaints are unfounded? Tools are meant to be used and to a certain extent abused so, cosmetic imperfections may not be that important to some people. However, alot of tools aren't cheap so, I would hate to pay premiun prices for a name brand tool, only to have look like a Harbor Freight reject.

 

[zuspiel]

Wow, this thing took off tonight... Just got through reading it...

smcdonn, thanks a lot for your honest assessment. I agree that the misstamped one shouldn't have made it past the operator of the press. With the smaller tappet, that bend is actually easy to miss unless they are stacked against each other. I can see how that one could easily slip through unless there is a specific inspection step.

I don't know how I got so unlucky to have three defects in 15 wrenches. I really hope it was a fluke.

Also, by now I kind of regret sending the 7/8 x 3/4 back... I should have kept it but was in a bit of a rush this morning and I had to go to the post office anyway. So I just wanted to have everything taken care of at once...

 

[Merkava_4]

If I was working there, they'd never get anything out the door; my OCD would engulf the place.

 

[autoace]

^^^^^^^^^^^
you stole my post! That would be one big pile of rejects! Bet you would have some dial calipers at your station.