Auto Wrench Thread

[AntiqueBen]

I've been trying to research the early B&S auto wrench pictured in the 1902 ad. I can't find the patent info for this auto wrench on Datamp under Billings patents or by doing a "type" search for automotive wrenches. It's probably a patent done by someone else besides B&S that B&S adopted possibly? AA says the early B&S stamping (pic below) is from 1890-1915, so this stamping on an Auto Wrench is early. I would like to figure out the original patent for this auto wrench style & when B&S first offered it. As of now, it is eluding me

 

[Mintgrun]

Here’s another Bonney wrench, similar to the ten incher in post number ten.

This eight incher has slightly different panel proportions and markings. Stillson Pattern Wrench as opposed to Stillson Wrench and no B shield on this one. I’m guessing this one is newer.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here’s another Bonney wrench, similar to the ten incher in post number ten.

This eight incher has slightly different panel proportions and markings. Stillson Pattern Wrench as opposed to Stillson Wrench and no B shield on this one. I’m guessing this one is newer.

Nice. It's cool to see another version.

 

[AntiqueBen]

This 1895 C.E. Billings patent is the closest patent I can find to matching the Billings Auto Wrench in the 1902 ad. Although the wrench in this 1895 patent isn't exact, it's very similar.
Still researching.....

 

[AntiqueBen]

Trimo also got in the game & produced Auto Wrenches. The Trimo Auto Monkey Wrench was patented in 1904, so Trimo also had an early example. The little 6" Trimo Emergency Auto Wrench had a built in screwdriver on the end of the handle.

 

[AntiqueBen]

A couple more Trimo Auto Wrench ads.

 

[d42jeep]

i guess the plan was to take whatever tool you were producing and call it an auto wrench and see if it flew. It seems like most of the other designs faded away pretty quickly.
Here is an auto wrench made by Bridgeport Hardware.
-Don

 

[AntiqueBen]

i guess the plan was to take whatever tool you were producing and call it an auto wrench and see if it flew. It seems like most of the other designs faded away pretty quickly.
Here is an auto wrench made by Bridgeport Hardware.
-Don

I agree. Looks like they made minor changes to existing wrenches & called it an auto wrench. Your right too that those designs didn't last long once the typical auto wrench design caught on. Maybe since Ford decided to go with the typical design from Moore Drop Forge, the market realized that's what a lot of people would be using. Ford produced & sold over 15 million Model T's alone & they all came with tools including that Moore auto wrench (I think). It's an interesting time for tool manufacturing during the automobile boom. Nice Bridgeport!

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here is a first year 1908 Ford Model T toolkit (pic below). Right away from the beginning Ford used the typical auto wrench design. I know Moore Drop Forge made these for them. There was also another Auto Wrench I've seen used in their toolkit. Same wrench design but marked "R&S." Ford made 15 million Model T's from 1908-1927. So these tools in the Ford toolkits were mass produced on a large scale. They obviously sold tools separately too for people to buy individually or so they could replace a tool in their kit. Probably why one of the names this auto wrench earned was the "Ford Wrench." These other earlier examples of auto wrenches of different designs were not mass produced & short lived on the production line. I'm finding that some of these other auto wrench design are difficult to find.
I couldn't post a pic of the 1908 Ford toolkit without posting a pic of the car

 

[AntiqueBen]

I'm obviously down the rabbit hole on this one. I found the Billings & Spencer Auto Wrench advertised in the 1901 edition of the Official Automobile Blue Book (1st pic below). Last pic is a different 1902 ad.

 

[four.cycle]

"... take whatever tool you were producing and call it an auto wrench and see if it flew ..."

you too, huh?

like I said: I think the term was bandied about enough and applied to enough different styles to have become almost meaningless.

 

[AntiqueBen]

you too, huh?

like I said: I think the term was bandied about enough and applied to enough different styles to have become almost meaningless.

I agree with that referring to all the early versions that came & went quick. But once Ford started producing the classic auto wrench design in the multi millions, it seems as though people knew that design as the Ford Wrench or generically the Auto Wrench.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I think the term was bandied about enough and applied to enough different styles to have become almost meaningless.

But that's not true of any other time period except the early years when Coes and other monkey wrench makers were trying to put lipstick on a pig to convince the market that their screw wrenches would be just as useful as an overgrown bicycle wrench for turning common fasteners on early automobiles. We weren't and still aren't confining ourselves to just that time period in the prior discussion, or this one. I already posted a blueprint and specifications for what the US Government considered an "Auto Wrench" in 1942 - and it's not a screw wrench. Trade journals and catalogs from the 1920's and 1930's made the same distinction.

Desperate turn of the century screw wrench makers and under- or mis-informed eBay sellers are not an appropriate source for the technical nomenclature of this wrench.

As Ben and Don alluded to here...

...it seems as though people knew that design as the Ford Wrench or generically the Auto Wrench.

It seems like most of the other designs faded away pretty quickly.

 

[four.cycle]

Desperate turn of the century screw wrench makers and under- or mis-informed eBay sellers are not an appropriate source for the technical nomenclature of this wrench.

Agreed - 100%
Absolutely correct. But.... to the misinformed ebay seller/buyer garage-sale-browser (pretty much anywhere outside GarageJournal.com) the nomenclature is mish-mash best guess.

 

[AntiqueBen]

In my current research I'm focusing on the earliest examples & trying to figure out when the B&S Auto Wrench was first offered (so far 1901). Along this path I've uncovered several types of odd early auto wrenches from different manufacturers. Designs that popped up for a short time & then disappeared because they didn't catch on. I find this time period very interesting. Of course this early period doesn't define auto wrenches as a whole. Once I figure out the earliest B&S offering, I'll move on into the late teens & 20's. Who knows what I'll find there.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

But.... to the misinformed ebay seller/buyer garage-sale-browser (pretty much anywhere outside GarageJournal.com) the nomenclature is mish-mash best guess.

Agreed. But, that's true across the board. Not just this topic. All kinds of hand tools are called all kinds of weird inaccurate names by those who are not familiar with the technical literature. Modern ignorance can have no impact on the historical terminology. "Auto wrench" is not a "meaningless" term in that context and in that context misinformed ebay sellers/garage-sale-browsers are irrelevant.

 

[four.cycle]

^ We're on the same page on that - I just look at the world through different windows. And it's not just wrenches - it is definitely "across the board" on any number of widgets.

I recall someone referring to what you and I call a "Crescent-type" "Adjustable" wrench as a "Monkey Wrench" - in real life.

 

[AntiqueBen]

My Billings & Spencer Auto Wrench showed up in the mail today. This is the one that matches the pic in the 1901 ad. I have to say, this one shocked me a little bit. Most of my other auto wrenches, like the Moore Fords, Lakeside, Vlcheck & some unmarked 9" autos, are for the most part pretty lightweight. This B&S I got today dwarfs all the others I have in several categories. It's literally twice the weight of any other auto wrench I have in a comparable size. The handle & the body of the wrench is much thicker. The lower jaw body & block that moves up & down the threads is much thicker & heavier. I would compare it's weight & construction comparable to a monkey or pipe wrench of the same size. Probably like anything else. The first/older versions were overbuilt & they eventually cut down on material & made it thinner & less bulky to save money. Pic below of it next to a Lakeside Auto Wrench the same length.

The pics don't do this auto wrench any justice

 

[Private Lugnutz]

We're on the same page on that -

Good. Glad to hear that. I thought you were trying to say it had an ambiguous meaning even in heyday vintage technical literature.

It's literally twice the weight of any other auto wrench I have in a comparable size. The handle & the body of the wrench is much thicker. The lower jaw body & block that moves up & down the threads is much thicker & heavier.

Hmm, that's interesting. I have the same wrench (linked in post #19) and mine is the same if not slightly lighter than comparable wrenches, including a bona fide later version of the same wrench from B&S. It's possible that it's later than yours and marked exactly the same. When you say "literally twice the weight" do you mean it? Did you weight it? Or are you hyperbolizing?

 

[AntiqueBen]

Hmm, that's interesting. I have the same wrench (linked in post #19) and mine is the same if not slightly lighter than comparable wrenches, including a bona fide later version of the same wrench from B&S. It's possible that it's later than yours and marked exactly the same. When you say "literally twice the weight" do you mean it? Did you weight it? Or are you hyperbolizing?

I'm guessing by feel. I don't have a convenient way to weigh it right now. I don't have another later B&S to compare it to. I'm comparing it to other brands I have the same length. I still feel it's definitely heavier because it's very noticable when your holding it, but I will confirm it's weight somehow & let you know. I guess I have a reason to buy a later B&S auto wrench I'll make room.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Hmm, that's interesting. I have the same wrench (linked in post #19) and mine is the same if not slightly lighter than comparable wrenches, including a bona fide later version of the same wrench from B&S. It's possible that it's later than yours and marked exactly the same. When you say "literally twice the weight" do you mean it? Did you weight it? Or are you hyperbolizing?

This might be one way to estimate. If you have a Moore Drop Forge 11" auto & a B&S 11" auto & your saying those are about the same weight, then I believe this is definitely heavier. I have a Moore Ford & this B&S is definitely heavier.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The professor is on it. I have a scale. I'll report back.

 

[MisterEd]

Ford Model A Adjustable Wrench

 

[Private Lugnutz]

These are the auto wrenches I weighed. All 11-inchers, nominally, except for the Moore 12.



From top to bottom:

(1) Diamond Calk N.A.F. 1106-4
(2) B&S with a "Model G" stamp on the static jaw, a "The" logo on the dynamic jaw, (and dratted hanging hole drilled by a PO)
(3) Moore 12
(4) B&S, early logo in handle recess

Same lineup from this perspective...



Bona fides thumbnails...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

And here are the weights...

(1) Diamond N.A.F. - 1 lb 9.3 ozs
(2) Later B&S - 1 lb 13 ozs
(3) Moore 12 - 2 lbs 0.3 ozs
(4) Early B&S - 1 lb 14 ozs

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm very curious for you to get your early B&S weighed, Ben. If you don't have a scale or someone you can borrow one from, you can take it to the Post Office. Pretend you are going to ship it parcel post, ground, and ask for a quote. It will ship by weight in that category. They will want a zip. It doesn't matter what you use. Mine is 07704. When they give you the price to ship it to me, before they take it off their scale, ask what it weighs. They'll tell you.

Please also measure the OAL. Mine is actually 10-7/8". So is the later one.

There's evidence that the B&S Model G got slimmer through the years from 1915, 1926, and 1948. But only very negligibly. My early wrench - again, with the same exact marking as yours, inside the recessed panel on the handle, weighs only 1 oz less than the later version.

See thumbnails. Not exactly apples to apples, because the OAL changed. It looks like they were making a 10" and a 12" in 1915 and in 1926. They must have standardized on 11" sometime between then and 1942. But you can see that the weights of the 10" and 12" were very close to my wrench. Weirdly, the OAL is too long for the No. 3 but too short for the No. 4.

 

[AntiqueBen]

And here are the weights...

(1) Diamond N.A.F. - 1 lb 9.3 ozs
(2) Later B&S - 1 lb 13 ozs
(3) Moore 12 - 2 lbs 0.3 ozs
(4) Early B&S - 1 lb 14 ozs

Nice work! Good to see this comparison LugzYour early & later B&S are almost identical. Now that you have weighed your early B&S, I need to weigh mine & compare to your results. This gives me something to work from. I'm going to try & go out tomorrow & find me a digital scale somewhere.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I'm very curious for you to get your early B&S weighed, Ben. If you don't have a scale or someone you can borrow one from, you can take it to the Post Office. Pretend you are going to ship it parcel post, ground, and ask for a quote. It will ship by weight in that category. They will want a zip. It doesn't matter what you use. Mine is 07704. When they give you the price to ship it to me, before they take it off their scale, ask what it weighs. They'll tell you.

Please also measure the OAL. Mine is actually 10-7/8". So is the later one.

There's evidence that the B&S Model G got slimmer through the years from 1915, 1926, and 1948. But only very negligibly. My early wrench - again, with the same exact marking as yours, inside the recessed panel on the handle, weighs only 1 oz less than the later version.

See thumbnails. Not exactly apples to apples, because the OAL changed. It looks like they were making a 10" and a 12" in 1915 and in 1926. They must have standardized on 11" sometime between then and 1942. But you can see that the weights of the 10" and 12" were very close to my wrench. Weirdly, the OAL is too long for the No. 3 but too short for the No. 4.

I'm glad you mentioned the OAL of your early B&S. Mine is also 10-7/8 OAL. I thought it looked more than 10" but less than 11" which I thought was odd. Instead of messing with the post office, I'm just going to get a digital scale. I need one anyways. Never know when I might need to weigh a wrench

 

[AntiqueBen]

There's evidence that the B&S Model G got slimmer through the years from 1915, 1926, and 1948. But only very negligibly. My early wrench - again, with the same exact marking as yours, inside the recessed panel on the handle, weighs only 1 oz less than the later version.

Do you know if all the B&S model G's have the stamping "The" Billings & Spencer Co on them with the word "The" in the manufacturer stamping?

 

[AntiqueBen]

Do you know if all the B&S model G's have the stamping "The" Billings & Spencer Co on them with the word "The" in the manufacturer stamping?

Or maybe the better question is when did B&S start making the Model G? After 1915?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Mine is also 10-7/8 OAL.

Good to know. The question is, why don't our Early wrenches (typewriter font, no "The") match the OAL's (10" and 12") in the 1915 catalog? And why doesn't my Later wrench (italicized font, preceded by "The") match the OAL's (10-3/4", 12-1/4") in the 1926 catalog?! And why does an Early model and a Later model have the same OAL?

Do you know if all the B&S model G's have the stamping "The" Billings & Spencer Co on them with the word "The" in the manufacturer stamping?

I'm not sure how to read your question. I could be misunderstanding, but let's cover some basics to make sure there's not an unwitting fallacy at work.

All B&S auto wrenches are Model G. Their Model A, B, C, D, and E wrenches were all bicycle wrenches of different sizes and types. Model F was an adjustable engineer's wrench (because they refused to use the word "Cresent-type"). Model H was a curved or "S" adjustable. Model I was an adjustable pin spanner.

Our early wrenches with the typewriter font and no "The" are Model G wrenches. Regardless of whether they were marked that way. Look at the 1915 and 1926 catalog excerpts again.

If you're asking if all the auto wrenches with the Later branding (italics, "The" preceding the name) also had the "Model G" marking, I don't know, but I don't think so. Same holds true for the wartime and postwar wrenches with the block letter branding in the panel. Some had a "G" at the end of the handle, some didn't.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Or maybe the better question is when did B&S start making the Model G? After 1915?

I'm pretty sure it was always given that model designator. Maybe not. But certainly after 1915. Whether it was marked that way or not, that's the model letter they were given in all their catalogs and ads, at least from 1915 on.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I'm pretty sure it was always given that model designator. Maybe not. But certainly after 1915. Whether it was marked that way or not, that's the model letter they were given in all their catalogs and ads, at least from 1915 on.

Good info. What I'm getting at here is I "believe" I may have a way to distinguish what is early B&S Auto Wrench vs later Model G. It's two things. The length & the stamping. The early B&S auto wrench was originally advertised as only coming in 10" 14" & 18". But there are regular/older Model G's in these same lengths too. An early auto wrench example would have to be one of these three sizes. Next it would NOT have the word "The" before the Billings & Spencer Co stamping since that didn't happen until 1915. So, if you have a B&S auto wrench that measures a true 10" 14" or 18" with the Billings & Spencer Co Hartford Conn (without the word THE in front), it stands a good chance of being a true early B&S auto wrench. I've found a 14" B&S with this older stamping. I'm currently looking at it closely for differences & believe it or not I "think" I've found some.
More to come.....

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm not following you on the use of the word "true" here.

If a B&S auto wrench that is 10", 14" or 18" OAL made with 'Early' production period (pre-1915) markings (typewriter font branding, not preceded by THE) is a "true" 'Early' auto wrench, what are B&S auto wrenches made with 'Early' production period markings but 10-7/8" OAL? Untrue? Fake? Anomalies? Made during a later production period despite the 'Early' markings? You see my point?

If ANY B&S tool has 'Early' production markings, it's 'Early'. There is no way I would cast doubt on the dating of our 'Early' auto wrenches because of the OAL not matching the OAL's advertised in some ads. Especially not when the OAL is exactly the same as the OAL of an auto wrench with markings (italics font branding, preceded by THE) from the 'Later' production period (1915-1926), when catalogs are showing other (10-3/4", 12-1/4") OALs. That smacks of a manufacturing continuity from 'Early' to 'Late'.

If there's an anomaly going on here, I would be inclined to think it was with variances in manufacturing dies and OAL, or variances between production and ads, not brand markings.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I'm not following you on the use of the word "true" here.

If a B&S auto wrench that is 10", 14" or 18" OAL made with 'Early' production period (pre-1915) markings (typewriter font branding, not preceded by THE) is a "true" 'Early' auto wrench, what are B&S auto wrenches made with 'Early' production period markings but 10-7/8" OAL? Untrue? Fake? Anomalies? Made during a later production period despite the 'Early' markings? You see my point?

If ANY B&S tool has 'Early' production markings, it's 'Early'. There is no way I would cast doubt on the dating of our 'Early' auto wrenches because of the OAL not matching the OAL's advertised in some ads. Especially not when the OAL is exactly the same as the OAL of an auto wrench with markings (italics font branding, preceded by THE) from the 'Later' production period (1915-1926), when catalogs are showing other (10-3/4", 12-1/4") OALs. That smacks of a manufacturing continuity from 'Early' to 'Late'.

If there's an anomaly going on here, I would be inclined to think it was with variances in manufacturing dies and OAL, or variances between production and ads, not brand markings.

When I said "true" 10" 14" or 18" in my mind I was referring to people selling these wrenches online. You'll see a wrench advertised as a 9" & it's really a 10" etc. That's what I was referring to here. Didn't mean to confuse the conversation

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That doesn't explain this...

An early auto wrench example would have to be one of these three sizes.

I disagree, for the reasons I outlined in my first reply. Our auto wrenches have 'Early' pre-1915 production markings. Their 10-7/8" OAL can't negate that just because we're not sure why the OAL doesn't match a few ads you found. Maybe the wrenches they advertised as 10" came off the line 10-7/8". You see that the actual OAL differs from the rounded up or down lengths in the 1915 and 1926 catalogs, right?

 

[AntiqueBen]

That doesn't explain this...

I disagree, for the reasons I outlined in my first reply. Our auto wrenches have 'Early' pre-1915 production markings. Their 10-7/8" OAL can't negate that just because we're not sure why the OAL doesn't match a few ads you found. Maybe the wrenches they advertised as 10" came off the line 10-7/8". You see that the actual OAL differs from the rounded up or down lengths in the 1915 and 1926 catalogs, right?

I see what your saying. So you think it's possible for an early (1901-02) B&S auto wrench that is supposed to be a 10" wrench could come off the assembly line as a 10-7/8", almost a full inch more than what it was supposed to be? This would mean it's possible for the 14" to measure almost 15" etc. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I've just never realized the OAL could be that far off of the advertised length.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I see what your saying. So you think it's possible for an early (1901-02) B&S auto wrench that is supposed to be a 10" wrench could come off the assembly line as a 10-7/8", almost a full inch more than what it was supposed to be? This would mean it's possible for the 14" to measure almost 15" etc. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I've just never realized the OAL could be that far off of the advertised length.

Now that I think about it, 10-7/8" is closer to 11", so how do we determine if the wrench is supposed to be a 10" or 11"?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am simply saying that none of these OAL questions or potential discrepancies based purely on ads can change the fact that our 10-7/8" auto wrenches bear the brand marking of a die they were using before 1915. And that marking has to trump anything else we can or can;t derive from trade journals, etc, about OALs.

I see the Early (pre-1915) ads indicating 10", 14" and 18", and later, they added an 8" and an 18". We KNOW these were probably "nominal" figures based on the later catalogs. The 1915 catalog I posted indicates that the No. 3 Model G, listed as a "10-in. wrench", is actually 10-3/4" in length. (That could easily be the 10-7/8" we are measuring.) It further indicates that the No. 4 Model G, listed as a "12-in. wrench", is actually 12-1/4" in length. The 1926 catalog doesn't bother with that nonsense. The No. 3 is listed as a No. 3 and in the Total Length column, it's 10-3/4". The No. 4 is 12-1/4". Note that the The 14-incher is not 14" and the 18-incher is not 18"!

 

[AntiqueBen]

I am simply saying that none of these OAL questions or potential discrepancies based purely on ads can change the fact that our 10-7/8" auto wrenches bear the brand marking of a die they were using before 1915. And that marking has to trump anything else we can or can;t derive from trade journals, etc, about OALs.

I see the Early (pre-1915) ads indicating 10", 14" and 18", and later, they added an 8" and an 18". We KNOW these were probably "nominal" figures based on the later catalogs. The 1915 catalog I posted indicates that the No. 3 Model G, listed as a "10-in. wrench", is actually 10-3/4" in length. (That could easily be the 10-7/8" we are measuring.) It further indicates that the No. 4 Model G, listed as a "12-in. wrench", is actually 12-1/4" in length. The 1926 catalog doesn't bother with that nonsense. The No. 3 is listed as a No. 3 and in the Total Length column, it's 10-3/4". The No. 4 is 12-1/4". Note that the The 14-incher is not 14" and the 18-incher is not 18"!

Gotcha. I 100% agree that the brand marking trumps anything else, no doubt. So that's probably why by 1926 they stopped giving this OAL spec because it seems like they were never exactly what they were advertised to be to begin with. We are on the same page now
I'm also currently researching how the location of the B&S brand marking on the wrench may play a role in understanding the age of the wrench. Not finished looking into this fully yet, but it's looking like the earliest location of the B&S stamping is located on the lower jaw block that travels up & down the threads (not sure of the proper name for this part of the wrench). Pic of this location below.

Edit: I know that brand stamps can be in different locations sometimes on a wrench from the same era. But trying to understand where the stamping was at the time of the wrench's release might be possible.