Bad bubble flare, cheap tool or..?

[Burt Shaver]

trying to change a brake line on a 09 Elantra. I purchased this Bubble Flaring tool brand Performance Tool from Rock Auto. I am having much difficulty using it, I will just state some details in poker form. I purchased 25’ of NiCop 3/16 line, picked up the line and tool today. Tried about 10 test flares. At first the bottom of the bubble was all deformed, I think I got that worked out, I had to much brake line past the die block, 3.7 mm seems to work best for me which is just a hair over 1/8” . Also found that some lubrication with WD-40 helped the flare turn out better. So I had done some research online before buying this tool and it was my understanding that the bottom portion of a bubble flare is supposed to be at a 90 degree angle but this tool makes the bottom at a 45 degree angle? The top part of my flare I’m happy with, it’s the bottom that I’m worried about. Even the best flare I have made has imperfections from the rolling of the tool, the 2 sides of the die block are beveled and I can see this bevel in the bottom part of my flare. How perfect does the bottom part of the flare need to be? Also when I tighten the die block into the brake line the two sides of the die block are at slightly different elevations, maybe a 16th of an inch roughly, there’s a lot of play in the screws to tighten it. I will post some more picture that I have taken, I don’t expect to be making many flares in my lifetime so I was hoping to get away with using this chinesium tool for 23.88.

 

[Burt Shaver]

This is the best flare I could make, is it good enough to use? And is it ok that the bottom is at a 45 degree angle when what I e read says it should be at a 90? The old one I tool off was at 90 degrees.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Here is a close up of the die block, as I mentioned the tooling seems poor, like no matter what I do I would never be able to get the bottom perfect with this tool, I am happy with too though.

 

[Burt Shaver]

This is the picture I found online saying the bottom of a bubble flare should be at a 90 degree angle, my tool makes them at 45 degrees?

 

[American Locomotive]

It looks like they're using the same tube bar for SAE 45° inverted flares and bubble flares. In my experience, those flare bars only have the 45° chamfer on one side. Try flipping it over and using the flat side.

 

[Wolley]

They should change the name to Low Performance Tool. It's junk. There shouldn't be that much gouging on the tube where it holds. I had one of their chain tubing cutters. It didn't make one cut. The cutters rounded over and I threw it straight in the trash.

 

[Burt Shaver]

It looks like they're using the same tube bar for SAE 45° inverted flares and bubble flares. In my experience, those flare bars only have the 45° chamfer on one side. Try flipping it over and using the flat side.

It looks like they're using the same tube bar for SAE 45° inverted flares and bubble flares. In my experience, those flare bars only have the 45° chamfer on one side. Try flipping it over and using the flat side.

Yes your right, in one of the video’s I watched only one side was chamfered to a 45 but both sides are on this one. Oddly the back side is the only side that I can make an even remotely nice flare in the bottom of the flare I mean. I’ve never done a flare so my word doesn’t mean much but the tooling on this tool seems bad to me.

 

[Burt Shaver]

They should change the name to Low Performance Tool. It's junk. There shouldn't be that much gouging on the tube where it holds. I had one of their chain tubing cutters. It didn't make one cut. The cutters rounded over and I threw it straight in the trash.

This is going back if they will take it, from what I’m reading and hearing one side of the block should be flat for a bubble flare but bath sides are chamfered. I was hoping it was ok for the bottom side to be on a 45 degree angle.

 

[Hooked]

Interesting. I have a similar flare tool but thought it was for the inverted flare only. I've never seen the rounded flare method.

 

[Mr.N]

Anyone use the knock off line flaring tool?
You can find it for just under $100 and the die is much longer and doesn't leave the crimped ribs.

 

[Mr.N]

I purchased this Bubble Flaring tool brand Performance Tool from Rock Auto. I am having much difficulty using it, I will just state some details in poker form. I purchased 25’ of NiCop 3/16 line, picked up the line and tool today. Tried about 10 test flares. At first the bottom of the bubble was all deformed, I think I got that worked out, I had to much brake line past the die block, 3.7 mm seems to work best for me which is just a hair over 1/8” . Also found that some lubrication with WD-40 helped the flare turn out better.
I don’t expect to be making many flares in my lifetime so I was hoping to get away with using this chinesium tool for 23.88.

Don't forget the price of the tube.

Yeah these things ****. I have several and even a couple old USA built ones, they are not that much better. I kept breaking the small buttons when going for a double flare.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Don't forget the price of the tube.

Yeah these things ****. I have several and even a couple old USA built ones, they are not that much better. I kept breaking the small buttons when going for a double flare.

I’m pretty sure this is not a precision tool I purchased. I guess an important question for me is 1. Does the bottom of the DIN flare need to be at a 90 degree angle or will it work on a 45? And 2. Does the bottom 45 if it will work as a 45 need to be perfect in order for it not to leak? because there is no way I can make the bottom perfect with this tool. I’m assuming it’s the top of the bubble that seats into something? Probably a funnel shape that it goes into?

 

[Mr.N]

Wish I could help, but never done the bubble flare... not yet.
Biggest thing when replacing hard line is to test, test and test again. Most of my leaks were from not having the nut tightened enough.
The flares that leaked were obviously bad and I should not have installed them... but I was younger than an learning.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Just took a screen shot of this tool off amazon for 124.00 you can see the bloc halves don’t even line up

 

[kyrbz]

I have a KD bubble flaring tool that I've had good luck with. I found that the 3 most important factors in a successful flare are -

1. Be sure the brake line is tightly clamped so that there is absolutely no movement of the line while flaring
2. Be sure the line is correctly positioned in the clamping part of the tool. On the KD tool the line is flush with the outside edge of the clamping tool.
3. Be sure you completely screw the flaring part of the tool as far as it will go. On my KD tool, it takes quite a bit of strength to get it completely flared correctly.

If any of those 3 things are off, it will result in a poorly flared brake line. It took a few practice flares for me to get the hang of it the first time I used the tool.

 

[Burt Shaver]

I have a KD bubble flaring tool that I've had good luck with. I found that the 3 most important factors in a successful flare are -

1. Be sure the brake line is tightly clamped so that there is absolutely no movement of the line while flaring
2. Be sure the line is correctly positioned in the clamping part of the tool. On the KD tool the line is flush with the outside edge of the clamping tool.
3. Be sure you completely screw the flaring part of the tool as far as it will go. On my KD tool, it takes quite a bit of strength to get it completely flared correctly.

If any of those 3 things are off, it will result in a poorly flared brake line. It took a few practice flares for me to get the hang the first time I used the tool.

That’s a nice looking flare in the picture, bottom of the flare is a 90 right. And the tool looks to be much better quality than the one I just purchased. How much roughly was it?

 

[kyrbz]

That’s a nice looking flare in the picture, bottom of the flare is a 90 right. And the tool looks to be much better quality than the one I just purchased. How much roughly was it?

I've kinda forgotten how much it was. I purchased around 2010 but I'm thinking it was around $100 back then. It does the DIN/ISO metric bubble flare with the flat bottom. I believe the bubble flare with the more rounded bottom is the UNF British Girling style bubble flare

 

[Burt Shaver]

I've kinda forgotten how much it was. I purchased around 2010 but I'm thinking it was around $100 back then. It does the DIN/ISO metric bubble flare with the flat bottom. I believe the bubble flare with the more rounded bottom is the UNF British Girling style bubble flare

Are you calling my flare girly

 

[dogdog]

Anyone use the knock off line flaring tool?
You can find it for just under $100 and the die is much longer and doesn't leave the crimped ribs.

I didn’t use the vevor brand one but did use the Eastwood version. Highly recommended it, perfect flare every time. Provided that you cut and deburr your tubing.

The mechanism looks the same , but the clamping die is where the quality is. The same is with those hydraulic sets but those are a bit more portable. The quality is the die in the kit.

 

[dogdog]

Are you calling my flare girly

You can try oil the tip and a thin layer of electrical to the tubing where the clamp meets and see if that helps. Make sure you deburr the tubing inside and out and it is cut square. And make sure it is protrude the correct amount. I think that is about it other than using the proper die.

 

[Burt Shaver]

As see. In the bottom portion of this picture can I even use this flare tool that makes the rounded girly bottoms? The old one I tool off has a flat bottom

 

[dogdog]

Interesting. I have a similar flare tool but thought it was for the inverted flare only. I've never seen the rounded flare method.

ISO bubble flare are getting in almost all newer cars… well at least the Japanese and Wuropean ones

 

[kyrbz]

That’s a nice looking flare in the picture, bottom of the flare is a 90 right. And the tool looks to be much better quality than the one I just purchased. How much roughly was it?

I don't see that the KD versions are sold anymore. They look the same as the Blue Point or Snap On ones. Of course the Snap Version is $200. There's also a OTC one that looks the same for $67.50. OTC is usually pretty good quality

OTC 6504 Deluxe Iso Bubble Flaring Tool

Buy OTC 6504 Deluxe Iso Bubble Flaring Tool with an everyday low price and free shipping!

www.jbtools.com

 

[kyrbz]

Also looks the similar to the Eastwood Powerbuilt set for $64

Powerbuilt Bubble Flaring Tool Set 648990

6 Piece Bubble Flaring Tool Kit

www.eastwood.com

Or this one for $89

ISO MET BUBBLE FLARING TOOL T

Mastercool ISO Metric Bubble Flaring Tool 71100

www.eastwood.com

Not sure of difference other than case between those 2 sets. Maybe the $89 is a little better quality?

 

[rodm1]

The flare tool is probably junk but the tubing can be hard and do that as well buy quality components really helps. For a good tool look at Imperial or Snapon hydraulic flare tool. Look at getting a roll of Kunifer brake pipe you will love working it is.

Try this brake line Advanced Auto has sold it in the past get a role of it. Flair one end and run it along your in tended route cut a little long use the hydraulic flare tool and flare the other end on the car. Very easy to work with and bend but you should fasten it more often then standared line.

http://fedhillusa.com/

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

Sur&R Brake Line Tubing, 25 ft. L, Copper Nickel BR-EZ100 | Zoro

Order Sur&R Brake Line Tubing, 25 ft. L, Copper Nickel, BR-EZ100 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[Burt Shaver]

Also looks the similar to the Eastwood Powerbuilt set for $64

Powerbuilt Bubble Flaring Tool Set 648990

6 Piece Bubble Flaring Tool Kit

www.eastwood.com

Or this one for $89

ISO MET BUBBLE FLARING TOOL T

Mastercool ISO Metric Bubble Flaring Tool 71100

www.eastwood.com

Not sure of difference other than case between those 2 sets. Maybe the $89 is a little better quality?

Thank you for that, I’m going to sleep on it tonight and decide tomorrow, Those all look like good choices.

 

[rodm1]

Get some Cunifer line it will never rust and it forms like copper you will love it.

Sur&R Brake Line Tubing, 25 ft. L, Copper Nickel BR-EZ100 | Zoro

Order Sur&R Brake Line Tubing, 25 ft. L, Copper Nickel, BR-EZ100 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

 

[bwringer]

The OP is using the copper/nickel brake line, AKA "Nicopp" or "Cunifer" as rodm1 calls it.

This stuff makes it far easier to create good flares, and it's definitely far easier to install than steel line. Not to mention it won't rust out like steel.

 

[isb cornbinder]

I got a deal on one of the tool trucks. I bought a Mastercool Hydraulic flare system. I have had it for nearly 30 years. This tool makes my work look better. I often failed with a manual set.

 

[Burt Shaver]

I got a deal on one of the tool trucks. I bought a Mastercool Hydraulic flare system. I have had it for nearly 30 years. This tool makes my work look better. I often failed with a manual set.

507.60 at Amazon

 

[isb cornbinder]

507.60 at Amazon

It is a very high quality tool. I have done hundreds of flares and no flares were less than perfect. I like tools that make my job easier with a reduced chance of a mistake. Read my signature.
I went to my Amazon account and went back in my purchases history. I paid $408cdn.
Eastwood sell a perfectly good flaring tool for under $200. There are demonstrations on You Tube.
Ridgid make the best tube forming tools. I have the complete set. I bought only one of at NAPA. The others came from Craigslist and garage sales. Some were as low as$20.

 

[Burt Shaver]

It is a very high quality tool. I have done hundreds of flares and no flares were less than perfect. I like tools that make my job easier with a reduced chance of a mistake. Read my signature.
I went to my Amazon account and went back in my purchases history. I paid $408cdn.

I like good tools as well unfortunately I can’t justify spending near 600.00 after tax for the amount of flares I will
do in a lifetime. I appreciate you sending me the link though, a great tool for someone who would need it more often.

 

[isb cornbinder]

I like good tools as well unfortunately I can’t justify spending near 600.00 after tax for the amount of flares I will
do in a lifetime. I appreciate you sending me the link though, a great tool for someone who would need it more often.

My saved receipts show that the price of top quality American Made tool have doubled, in many cases, in a decade.
EG: In 2002, I built a hydraulic lift table. The cost was $1345. Two years ago, that cost to build was nearly $3k. The perfectly capable pneumatic motorcycle lifts were $400 2 decades ago. I was told that price is now over a grand in Canadian Loonies. ( 500 Toonies) Yes, we silly coins.

 

[isb cornbinder]

I like good tools as well unfortunately I can’t justify spending near 600.00 after tax for the amount of flares I will
do in a lifetime. I appreciate you sending me the link though, a great tool for someone who would need it more often.

I hope the link will help other as wall.

 

[Mr.N]

I didn’t use the vevor brand one but did use the Eastwood version. Highly recommended it, perfect flare every time. Provided that you cut and deburr your tubing.

The mechanism looks the same , but the clamping die is where the quality is. The same is with those hydraulic sets but those are a bit more portable. The quality is the die in the kit.

Thanks for input!

 

[bw77]

I have used a different style of tool to make double and bubble flares on nicopp line.
The one I use is called Stronghand, I bought it several years ago from a seller in England.
I have one for double and one for bubble.
Works well in tight situations under the car. Just like this one for double.
But I can't find the bubble version.

https://www.amazon.com/Brake-Pipe-Flaring-Professional-situ/dp/B01M4RC2YW?tag=atomicindus08-20

This is a similar tool sold on amazon that does both double and bubble.

https://www.amazon.com/Capri-Tools-Flaring-Bubble-Double/dp/B0BRNYRWG1/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Mike65]

I have been using the OTC brake line flaring tool with good results since 2015. I made several brake lines for my old 2000 Ranger, & a couple for my 69 Mustang. They were all the double flare.

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-6502-Master-Brake-Flaring/dp/B0075XHDHI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Rusty Wrench]

Those pics look like results I was getting with the amazon cheap nicopp junk. Spend 2x for quality Ni-copp at summit racing and you'll probably like your tool better.
I love the Titan flare tool now. All I do is 3/16 but if I had a 1/4 line job i'd buy that size of the Titan.

 

[Burt Shaver]

I have been using the OTC brake line flaring tool with good results since 2015. I made several brake lines for my old 2000 Ranger, & a couple for my 69 Mustang. They were all the double flare.

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-6502-Master-Brake-Flaring/dp/B0075XHDHI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

OTC is a good option for me, it’s the right price range, what does worry me though is you bought yours in 2015 and I think I remember reading somewhere on here at one time that OTC used to be American made and now it’s made in China? Have you heard this? Doesn’t mean the tool will be junk but.... may not be same quality as when you bought yours

 

[Burt Shaver]

Those pics look like results I was getting with the amazon cheap nicopp junk. Spend 2x for quality Ni-copp at summit racing and you'll probably like your tool better.
I love the Titan flare tool now. All I do is 3/16 but if I had a 1/4 line job i'd buy that size of the Titan.

I bought this NiCopp from Rock Auto for 32.00 for 25’. You could be right about the brake line, although it looks fine to me but first time I’ve ever seen NiCopp so... lol. But either way the tool I have is not the right type of bubble flare and the tool is garbage, doe blocks are uneven when clamped tight, the tooling at the bottom is horrendous in my opinion.