Bad concrete pour. Next step?

[NoPressure]

Idk if this is the best place for this. Looking for advice on how this should be handled. I hired a reputable builder who basically only builds garages. I didn't know they were pouring the concrete today. It's been raining off and on for the last couple days. I told him two different times not to bring a concrete truck out here unless the yard had a couple days to dry after a good rain. They got a truck stuck first thing this morning and then they still had the concrete delivered and then the concrete truck got stuck. My neighbor says the concrete truck was stuck for probably two hours. I didn't find any of this out until I got home around 5 this afternoon. Called the builder and he said he would be out here first thing in the morning to talk about it. I don't know much about concrete. Can this be fixed and be as good as the original pour should have been? My initial thought is that it needs to be tore up and they start over.

 

[Garagetime]

I would not accept that! I would make them do it over. I don't know what you plans are,but. If going to put in a lift. There is no way I would trust it.Just my thoughts on it.I had a 3rd generation concrete guy do the slab for my shop I put up this summer. I even asked him if there were any jobs he done that I could look at.

 

[scrambled]

Ouch!!!


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[LegacyIndustrial]

Rip it out and repour. I typically side with contractors but that is too much


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[OccupantRJ]

Time for a do over. Be sure to let him know you have pictures already on the internet that just need his name added if he balks. Also tell him the building inspector would love to have a look at that. He needs to pay for his lack of following directions, let alone for bringing a truck in on wet ground after told not to.

 

[Radix2]

I guess I would be extremely shocked if the builder did not tell you that he was having the concrete crew tear it out.

They probably knew pretty fast that it was a lost cause and stopped working before wasting any time on it.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[topp64]

Make them break it out and use a different concrete sub contractor, one that knows what they are doing. I have been doing residential and commercial concrete for more than 30 years and have never left a job looking like that. I don't care if they were caught in the rain or had a hot load from the truck being stuck, they don't have much experience.

 

[youwish2bme]

Tear all that out and go again...

 

[sixty4]

Huge waste of his time and your money! He should be tarred and feathered and made to run down main street.

 

[James-W]

That's just terrible, completely unacceptable. It needs to be ripped out and done over.

 

[vettex2]

Yipes !!!!!

 

[bczygan]

What leverage do you have?

Did you get a cash bond sized for demo and replacement?

Hope you haven't paid him anything yet.

It's his material, right?

Yes, it must all be removed and replaced.

Bill

 

[Zeke]

That was a waste of labor. I think they shot it out of the truck just to get rid of it.

On the plus side you have a decent stem wall height that might allow for a new 3" pour over that after PROPER preparation. I'd discuss this with your inspector before making any decisions.

All you need is a long and higher approach. If you offered me this option, I'd take it.

 

[peterl]

Rip that out and have someone else pour. That is the only thing I would accept .

Good luck Peterl

 

[LXCam]

Holy hot load batman. There is no fix. Rip it out and do it again.

 

[joes169]

Make them break it out and use a different concrete sub contractor, one that knows what they are doing. I have been doing residential and commercial concrete for more than 30 years and have never left a job looking like that. I don't care if they were caught in the rain or had a hot load from the truck being stuck, they don't have much experience.

As a concrete guy, I agree 100%, that's not only junk, but should be an embarassment for anyone who claims to do this for a living. I'd be lying if I said I've never tore out my own fresh concrete because it got away from us. The difference is I wouldn't wait for the homeowner's reaction to start that mini excavator in the background and commence with removing the disaster at my own expense.

What's sad is that the contractor should have seen this coming, and had a number of chances to change course before the train went off the rails. For one, they should have cancelled the concrete when their own truck got stuck. If not then, they should have negotiated with the ready mix plant to plit the cost of the first load that got stuck. If they still couldn't understand what they were getting into, they could have had the second concrete truck (or any other auxillary vehicle) bring out a set-stabilizer or retardant for the old, hot concrete. As a last resort, they could have went to the shop, or went to rent, a finishing machine with a pan to aid in finishing the terrible old, hot concrete, and freed up valuable labor on the slab and re-positioned it to the edges and curbs which are much more time consuming.

To the OP, are anchor bolts NOT required in Alabama? I wouldn't trust wedge anchors or "Titans" in curb that was never consolidated decent.

 

[Marctrees]

Zeke's option may be logical, should be considered. Marc

 

[tlmartin84]

When I look at my poorly finished pad (that I did myself), and see something like this....it makes me feel soooo much better.

I'd tear it out......

 

[LXCam]

Also document everything and I mean everything that is said from this point forwards. Do not accept anything but a complete tear out. It appears the first load went fine with the exception the stem walls are poorly consolidated, not the worst but not good either. And the second truck just caused a huge series of events to cascade off the cliff. Looking at the pictures it appears after getting the stem wall poured they spread the mud out thin to cap it with the second which will leave yoiu with a seriously bad cold joint that will pop out in huge chunks.

Like Joe said had that been my pour I'd have been ripping it out today while it was still as green as possible.

Good luck bud, I truly hope your contractor does not try to defend this or propose some fix that will never end up acceptable.

 

[chaosracing]

Need to get everything removed and redone. Better tell the GC to get a new concrete guy as well. Do not even let them bring any materials on site (unless you already paid for them) until this is fixed. Like mentioned above, document and record everything from here on out. What is sad is if this was allowed, what else is this guy going to do?

 

[NoPressure]

Thanks for all the replys. I have a signed contract with the builder. Payment is broke up into 5 payments spread throughout the course of the build. At this point I've paid a down payment. The contract says I have three days to tell the builder in writing that I don't accept the slab. This will be the first thing I give him in the morning. The second payment is to be paid after the slab is poured. Obviously I will not be making this or any other payment until it is fixed. I've had more time to look at it and just keep finding more and more problems. The footer is crumbling none of it is smooth at one corner the bottom corner has already broken off. You can chip the curb away with a pocket knife. I'll take more pictures in the morning. Now that I've had time to get advice and do some research I won't accept anything other than them tearing this out and starting over.

Zeke - I understand that there may be a correct way to pour over this and it turn out ok but with my limited knowledge of concrete I'm not comfortable with that. Especially after seeing how brittle the curb is.

 

[Shootinok]

You said he's a reputable builder, let him have the chance to be that.
Most likely he'll know the right thing to do is take it out.
Everything in construction still has the human element, and all us human contractors have had a bad issue happen along the way. A good contractor will fix it.
Really sorry to see it happened in your yard. Good luck. Hoping your guy steps up and does the right thing, but don't accept a half a$$ fix.

 

[NoPressure]

Time for a do over. Be sure to let him know you have pictures already on the internet that just need his name added if he balks. Also tell him the building inspector would love to have a look at that. He needs to pay for his lack of following directions, let alone for bringing a truck in on wet ground after told not to.

Believe me, the worst thing he could do is not fix this how I want it fixed. I'll play nice and give him a reasonable chance to make it right but if he doesn't he is screwing himself. The way social media is today it would not take long for his businesses reputation to be ruined.

I'll post it on every form of social media, every forum I can find, get the news out here to do a story on it, better business bureau, rent billboards, rent the Goodyear blimp, take out radio and tv ads, have the Trump train swing by, egg his house, rent a SEAL team,... can you rent a SEAL team?

Not to mention taking legal action. But like I said I'm going to give him a chance to make it right.

 

[LXCam]

. can you rent a SEAL team?.

I do believe you'll pull it off.

 

[SteveL]

I would be shocked if he does not offer to tear out and start over the instant he sees it. We had a stamped and colored three level patio done 3 years ago and the first pour was no where close to the right color. Actually turned out pink. Contractor was not happy but they tore it all out and re pored. He told me that he got the concrete supplier to split the cost as they had the color mix ratio wrong. I wold guess that the concrete provider will bare some of the responsibility on your project. The driver should have know better than to try to deliver with the soil being so wet to get stuck for two hours.

 

[Pig9r]

What a bad first impression. Not only did he not wait as you advised he left this turd. I guess your yard is tore up also. I think I would run from this guy. Think of the struggles you are going to have if this is the first day. Reputable or not, I have found that just because someone else was happy with someone's work doesn't mean they have the same standards I do.

 

[James-W]

One thing for certain, I would want my yard repaired as well as getting the the concrete slab done right.

 

[Jinks]

Thanks for all the replys. I have a signed contract with the builder. Payment is broke up into 5 payments spread throughout the course of the build. At this point I've paid a down payment. The contract says I have three days to tell the builder in writing that I don't accept the slab. This will be the first thing I give him in the morning. The second payment is to be paid after the slab is poured. Obviously I will not be making this or any other payment until it is fixed. I've had more time to look at it and just keep finding more and more problems. The footer is crumbling none of it is smooth at one corner the bottom corner has already broken off. You can chip the curb away with a pocket knife. I'll take more pictures in the morning. Now that I've had time to get advice and do some research I won't accept anything other than them tearing this out and starting over.

Zeke - I understand that there may be a correct way to pour over this and it turn out ok but with my limited knowledge of concrete I'm not comfortable with that. Especially after seeing how brittle the curb is.

Jack hammer/excavator time! If your already having problems with the footer make them take it all out! During my remodel the first concrete sub misread the prints & removed half of a perfectly good patio that I had poured. He got frustrated & left half way through screeding the repair. The next sub jack hammered the entire patio & screwed up the replacement. The third sub poured a new patio that cracked so he poured a cap over it. That lasted almost till the end of construction. The fourth sub jack hammered the whole thing out again & poured it correctly. I don't think the G. C. ever figured out that it's less expensive to pay to have it done right once than to pay for cheap work four times.

 

[lakeroadster]

Holy Schnikeys.. what a mess. Such a shame.

I've had more time to look at it and just keep finding more and more problems. The footer is crumbling none of it is smooth at one corner the bottom corner has already broken off. You can chip the curb away with a pocket knife. I'll take more pictures in the morning. Now that I've had time to get advice and do some research I won't accept anything other than them tearing this out and starting over.

So if the footer is bad, and the slab is bad, and the curb is bad that means they did poor quality work not once, but three times, correct?

I'd be demanding a different crew. Either they don't know what they are doing, or they don't care. Neither of which is acceptable.

 

[The_Geologist]

I don't think horrible even begins to describe that pour.

Your ideas on how to proceed from here sound good to me. Hope it all works out for the best in the end!

 

[audioworks04]

absolutely not, unless he is going to give you back all of your payment and give you an extended warranty. That shouldnt even be a question for a reputable contractor, he should have started tearing it out the next day. There is not a single patch material that I would trust short of a complete overlay. But my worry is that it is most likely not flat and probably had so much water applied to the surface that the water/cement ratio is completely washed which will cause a weak surface.

 

[Jazz1]

Tear it up. It amazes me that a contractor can screw up something as simple as a concrete pad or that they leave a total incompetent in charge of the pour. How much more would it cost to leave a employee on site with a clue during pour?

 

[L5wolvesf]

Just a thought here . . . have a county inspector come look at it, show them all the things that are wrong with it and get their "official" opinion in writing. Any contractor that would have done that isn't what I would call reputable.

 

[lakeroadster]

Just a thought here . . . have a county inspector come look at it, show them all the things that are wrong with it and get their "official" opinion in writing. Any contractor that would have done that isn't what I would call reputable.

Jurisdictions don't inspect a slab on grade... not part of the permit / building approval process. And they won't write up anything they aren't inspecting.

 

[Farmall450]

OP, any word from the contractor?
Good luck getting some new cement!

 

[NoPressure]

Builder came out today. Long story short he told me it was structurally sound and a pour over would be fine. I told him I would not accept anything other than it being tore out and redone. He said why don't you take the weekend to think about it and we'll talk again. I basically said that's fine but it sounds like you need to take the weekend to think about the fact you're going to have to tear this up and redo it. He was here for about an hour and a half. I recorded it all on my phone. I also told him in writing (per HIS contract) that I did not accept the concrete. He acted offended that I put it in writing. I also made a copy of it for me to keep. I asked him to sign it and he refused. I did get him to acknowledge thst I was giving him written notice on the recording. I'm also going to send it to his office via certified mail. He did say that if we can't come to an agreement he will tear it all out and fix the yard and the driveway and give us our money back.

 

[LXCam]

Well you're in for a battle. I would suggest you contact a local third party inspection/testing company and pay to have them come out and complete some cores and testing of them at 7 days. Inform the contractor you intend on doing so and if in the event they fail break he will also be paying for that cost as well.

How he can even remotely try to justify that is acceptable is beyond my comprehension. I would also contact the state lic board as well as his bond company.

 

[joes169]

Builder came out today. Long story short he told me it was structurally sound and a pour over would be fine. I told him I would not accept anything other than it being tore out and redone. He said why don't you take the weekend to think about it and we'll talk again. I basically said that's fine but it sounds like you need to take the weekend to think about the fact you're going to have to tear this up and redo it. He was here for about an hour and a half. I recorded it all on my phone. I also told him in writing (per HIS contract) that I did not accept the concrete. He acted offended that I put it in writing. I also made a copy of it for me to keep. I asked him to sign it and he refused. I did get him to acknowledge thst I was giving him written notice on the recording. I'm also going to send it to his office via certified mail. He did say that if we can't come to an agreement he will tear it all out and fix the yard and the driveway and give us our money back.

Good for you for holding your ground, and taking the organized steps that you did.

As somesone who does this for living, I can tell you that I would NOT recommend pouring a 2-3" cap over this. It's just bound to be problematic, and you'll lose detrimental curb height, with no added plus to you at all. Not to mention, pouring thin caps are far harder to get flat than 4-5" concrete, they failed miserably at that already, not sure they're up for an even bigger challenge.

Two questions yet:

Do you know if it's required by code to have cast-in-place anchor bolts or straps, or are drill in anchors acceted by code?

Is the "builder" who came out today just the general, and the concrete was done by a sub to the builder? Or does he have his own concrete crew?

Best of luck on moving forward. Hopefully the builder stands by his word and is willing to tear the concrete out and refund your money. I think at this point, that's probably the best move for both parties.

 

[joes169]

So if the footer is bad, and the slab is bad, and the curb is bad that means they did poor quality work not once, but three times, correct?

It's a monolithic slab, all poured at the same time.

 

[NoPressure]

Good for you for holding your ground, and taking the organized steps that you did.

As somesone who does this for living, I can tell you that I would NOT recommend pouring a 2-3" cap over this. It's just bound to be problematic, and you'll lose detrimental curb height, with no added plus to you at all. Not to mention, pouring thin caps are far harder to get flat than 4-5" concrete, they failed miserably at that already, not sure they're up for an even bigger challenge.

Two questions yet:

Do you know if it's required by code to have cast-in-place anchor bolts or straps, or are drill in anchors acceted by code?

Is the "builder" who came out today just the general, and the concrete was done by a sub to the builder? Or does he have his own concrete crew?

Best of luck on moving forward. Hopefully the builder stands by his word and is willing to tear the concrete out and refund your money. I think at this point, that's probably the best move for both parties.

As far as I understand this is a sub the builder uses for all his work. Says he has been using this crew for the last six years. The concrete is the only part he subs out everything else is done by his crew.

I asked him about the anchors he said they always use drill in anchors and went on to explain to me why they are better than set anchors.